Defying Congress, Trump vetoes defense bill and threatens government shutdown

[Berkshire]

23 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

The best policy for the US economy would be to devalue the dollar, although it would be hard cheese for us expats.

It's not that simple.  For instance, the US imports more than it exports....been that way forever.  A weaker dollar would mean higher prices for Americans leading to inflation.  Yes it would help manufacturing, but the US doesn't do that much manufacturing anymore anyways.  And you're right, a weaker dollar would certainly kick us expats in the nuts...ouch!

[cmarshall]

1 minute ago, Berkshire said:

It's not that simple.  For instance, the US imports more than it exports....been that way forever.  A weaker dollar would mean higher prices for Americans leading to inflation.  Yes it would help manufacturing, but the US doesn't do that much manufacturing anymore anyways.  And you're right, a weaker dollar would certainly kick us expats in the nuts...ouch!

 

 

The "US doesn't do that much manufacturing anymore" exactly because of the too strong dollar.  At the same time the foreign currency inflows into the financial sector makes Wall Street richer all the time increasing the inequality in the society.

 

Foolish to worry about inflation.  There is basically no inflation in the world now even though there is a glut of cash.  

[herfiehandbag]

On 12/24/2020 at 10:58 AM, Phoenix Rising said:

trump continues to show America what he's good at; absolutely nothing.

I wouldn't say that, ",Phoenix Rising" old chap.

 

He is turning out to be remarkably, even extraordinarily good at shafting the entire United States of America, spreading chaos and governmental paralysis despite the very real problems the country is facing.

 

He is demonstrating, without parallel to any politician I can think of outside third world kleptocracies, an amazing degree of utterly amoral behaviour, apparently immune to any feelings of shame that virtually any normal person with any degree of conscience would feel.

 

So in that sense, he is doing his "thing" extraordinarily well.

 

Now if you had asked:"What is he good for?" Then the inevitable response would be "nothing!", or to be more accurate, "the cube route of sweet <deleted> all!"

[spidermike007]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:31 AM, placeholder said:

Not an idiot. Just deranged. As his reaction to losing the election clearly demonstrates.

 

No question about that. Likely not an idiot. But, not a man of much intelligence, as many of his former classmates, professors, appointees, and associates have stated. 

 

The only thing he is brilliant at is deception, spinning a lie, being a huckster, swindling people out of money, and convincing gullible people of bizarre conspiracies. 

[Jeffr2]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

No question about that. Likely not an idiot. But, not a man of much intelligence, as many of his former classmates, professors, appointees, and associates have stated. 

 

The only thing he is brilliant at is deception, spinning a lie, being a huckster, swindling people out of money, and convincing gullible people of bizarre conspiracies. 

I was listening to a podcast today.  One person asked why was Trump doing this?  The response?  Because people are giving him money.  Stunning they don't get it.

[bluehippie]

On 12/24/2020 at 7:52 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

How does ‘Trump defunds military’ sound?

 

Pentagon weighing plans to end military support for CIA counterterrorism operations effective January 5 2021, (1 day before the US congress electoral college Joint hearings on 01-06-2021). Should be some critical updates in these matters within 48 hours.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/10/us/politics/pentagon-cia-support.html

 

[Tracyb]

On 12/24/2020 at 9:56 AM, placeholder said:

Non compos menace?

That goes without saying!

[placnx]

On 12/24/2020 at 4:39 PM, Sudarut said:

never said it would fail any time soon, just that it will fail.  Negative interest rates is one tool they could use to delay the inevitable.

Negative interest rates - not a good idea, even though EU is trying that. Zero interest rates are already undermining US banks, but good economic management will carry the US quite a way. Confidence is the main point in keeping this going.

[Dumbastheycome]

If it gets to the point of another Govt. shutdown I  hope Trump is informed of the  fact that the keys to the  Presidential Limos have been  misplaced , Air force One  & Two  are denied  refueling, and a few old old  fat guys who patrol  car parks at Walmart are now his  Security  Detail !

[placnx]

On 12/24/2020 at 8:32 PM, sirineou said:

Sure , compromise with in a bill, or a bit of "Quid  pro quo", such as I will vote for this  today if you will vote for my pet bill project tomorrow is and has been  part of politics   throughout human history, but I find something troubling in what I consider to be "Trojan Horse legislation "  where hidden within  a substantial bill of related matters  is unrelated Legislation  that could hurt us after we close the gates and go back to sleep.

No one will argue that Social Media is having a significant impact on our society and as such all thing regulation of ir should be taken seriously. , 

 I have no opinion on the merits of this  social media  liability protection legislation  because I know little about the particulars of it.

 Does it offer blanket liability protection? does it protect on some things where protection is needed , but allows liability on others where the public needs protection from social Media. One would think that a bill of such importance would be considered on it'[s own , vigorously debated, with adjustments made to protect towards unforeseen consequences.

 I am not taking trump's side in this issue. his request to scrap the legislation all together is just as agrigiouse.   trump  The litigator in chief, would like nothing more than to remove all protection so that he can run rough shot over social media via the threat of unlimited litigation, and use it as his personal propaganda vehicle. But just as trump is holding this bill hostage to get what he wants, I think those who put the social media litigation protection bill  in the defence appropriation bill , were doing a bit of the same by saying if you want  a defence appropriation bill you got to give us this social media bill also. 

  I understand the need of Omnibus legislation for expediency,  but IMO all things contain therein need to be related.  

I think that you are confused about the issue of repealing Section 230, which protects Facebook et al from responsibility for what users post. It's Trump who wants this repeal to be added. The issue is that this section allows Facebook et al to remove posts deemed beyond the pale, while some "Republicans" claim that their voices are thereby being muzzled.

[placnx]

On 12/25/2020 at 11:22 AM, cmarshall said:

 

This is the fantasy of those who don't understand national debt.  "Over-borrowing" in this context could only mean that the bond market loses sufficient confidence in the ability of the US to pay interest on its bonds to the point that it insists on higher rates of interest.  And yet the 30-year US Treasuries pay only about 1.66%.  That is nominal interest without any inflation adjustment.  Since it is highly unlikely that the cumulative inflation in the coming thirty years will be less that 1.66%, the US govt is going to make some money on the borrowing.  

 

While the strong dollar is a boon to those of us with assets in dollars and liabilities in baht, it is highly detrimental to the US economy.  Secy of Treasury Robert Rubin's "strong dollar" policy beginning in the 1990s is responsible for hollowing out the US manufacturing sector to the benefit of the investment industry.  The best policy for the US economy would be to devalue the dollar, although it would be hard cheese for us expats.

Actually, the baht is going up and the US dollar down, and in relation to euro as well. Actually the heyday of the strong dollar was in the wake of Volcker's extremely high interest rate overkill from around 1980. This ended with the Plaza Accord in 1985.It would be a bad idea to have an overnight devaluation of the dollar. Eventual decline as is happening should be determined by the market. Otherwise there could really be a crisis of confidence with highly unpredictable consequences.

 

For many years, going to decades, the interest rate hawks have been complaining about low interest rates. This has led to some people believing them. The tragedy of Obama succumbing to pressure from such people, the bond guy Rick Santelli on MSNBC for example, led to the feeble recovery from 2007-8 and the rise of Trump.

[sirineou]

23 minutes ago, placnx said:

I think that you are confused about the issue of repealing Section 230, which protects Facebook et al from responsibility for what users post. It's Trump who wants this repeal to be added. The issue is that this section allows Facebook et al to remove posts deemed beyond the pale, while some "Republicans" claim that their voices are thereby being muzzled.

My issue is not with what is contained in the legislation,  or who is at fault, but with the practice of attaching unrelated legislation to larger bills as a means of making the passing of the larger bill. contingent to also passing the unrelated legislation.

  trump's holding the bill captive until the social media litigation provision is removed  is little different than the attempt of the other side to sneak it in the hope that trump would not dare veto the whole bill. 

It is a game both sides play and IMO it is time it stops. As I said earlier legislation in how an important component of our society and  culture . such as social media is regulated , deserves it's own consideration and vigorous debates to expose weaknesses, faults and unforeseen consequences.  

[Sujo]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

My issue is not with what is contained in the legislation,  or who is at fault, but with the practice of attaching unrelated legislation to larger bills as a means of making the passing of the larger bill. contingent to also passing the unrelated legislation.

  trump's holding the bill captive until the social media litigation provision is removed  is little different than the attempt of the other side to sneak it in the hope that trump would not dare veto the whole bill. 

It is a game both sides play and IMO it is time it stops. As I said earlier legislation in how an important component of our society and  culture . such as social media is regulated , deserves it's own consideration and vigorous debates to expose weaknesses, faults and unforeseen consequences.  

Who sneaked what in. It was agreed by both party's by a large majority.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Sujo said:

Who sneaked what in. It was agreed by both party's by a large majority.

 There are many parties with interest in this legislation, some of which are . the Legislative branch, the Executive branch ,the American people. and the industry involved in the legislation . By virtue of the veto, It is obvious that at least one party did not agree. 

[Sujo]

23 hours ago, sirineou said:

 There are many parties with interest in this legislation, some of which are . the Legislative branch, the Executive branch ,the American people. and the industry involved in the legislation . By virtue of the veto, It is obvious that at least one party did not agree. 

The party who knows the least about what it is and was never involved and just doesnt care.

 

He should just go play golf until he is formally gone and let the adults do whats important.

[sirineou]

20 minutes ago, Sujo said:

The party who knows the least about what it is and was never involved and just doesnt care.

 

He should just go play golf until he is formally gone and let the adults do whats important.

I agree, IMO if the social media litigation protection bill was a stand along bill , and had been vigorously debated we all would have known more about it including trump, As far at the "caring"  part. I don't think anything other than removing him from office can fix that. the man is beyond repair.

[cmarshall]

On 12/26/2020 at 7:30 PM, placnx said:

Actually, the baht is going up and the US dollar down, and in relation to euro as well. Actually the heyday of the strong dollar was in the wake of Volcker's extremely high interest rate overkill from around 1980. This ended with the Plaza Accord in 1985.It would be a bad idea to have an overnight devaluation of the dollar. Eventual decline as is happening should be determined by the market. Otherwise there could really be a crisis of confidence with highly unpredictable consequences.

 

 

The dollar is probably going down, because the emergence of the vaccines is generating expectations that the Covid crisis will end in the coming year.  If that is the case then the dollar's role as safe haven during a crisis will be diminished and the value of the dollar will decline.  The same thing happened during the 2008 financial crisis when the dollar rose even though the financial crisis originated in the US.