1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or indeed why they should not use their bargaining power to the very best of their own advantage.

With the depression thats in the post,think you,ll find its going to be a buyers market.

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by kingdong

On 12/25/2020 at 4:47 AM, Hi from France said:

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/24/borisjohnsons-vows-to-pit-uk-against-eu-in-race-for-success

 

I know fishing is not important, but even then I'm at a loss to see what the UK got in exchange for these (mainly Scottish) fishing quotas.

 

The EU will keep 75% and for what? 

 

 

You need to read the 2,000 pages to understand the detail. As do we all.

 

Fishing is emotive, and a political hot potato. Economically unimportant in the scheme of things.

 

To be fair, fishermen have to finance boats and equipment which needs time. The period in which the reduced catches are allowed has been significantly reduced and then will revert to Britain to decide. The fish caught in the waters in question is sold mainly to mainland Europe, by British and EU fishermen. British fishermen will still have access to this market. Ironically, the different tastes in types of fish mean not much of these are sold into the UK.

 

To get a balanced view, the whole document needs reading, But on this thorny issue I would congratulate Barnier and Frost and their teams on coming up with a workable compromise. 

 

You won't get a balanced view from many MSM sources. Certainly not the BBC and most definitely not politicians like the SNP. TVF isn't likely to be better. So at some point, everyone interested has to read the detail and small print.  Happy New Year.

Erasmus has been superseded.

 

New Turing scheme to support thousands of students to study and work abroad

 

Quote

A new £100 million scheme for students to study and work abroad will replace the UK's participation in Erasmus+.

 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by evadgib

3 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

What is “it” that proves that? To my knowledge (I may be wrong) the UK hasn’t negotiated many (any?) own trade deals so far but mostly (only?) rolled over existing EU trade deals. That’s the sensible thing to do (as I wrote before) but it’s hardly proof for how long it takes to negotiate a trade deal when someone else negotiated it for you and it isn’t tailored to your economy. 

 

 
 

 

 

Don't disagree with the sensible idea of rolling over existing EU deals where possible.

 

But, did you miss that the EU and UK have just negotiated the biggest and most complicated trade deal in decades? And it took how many years?

 

Barnier, Frost and their teams have shown what very hard work can achieve. Hard work and long hours. Barnier in particular because he has had to contend with changes in UK PM's, with very different views, and changes in UK negotiating team; plus pressure from his own President. Hats off to them all, him in particular!

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

But, did you miss that the EU and UK have just negotiated the biggest and most complicated trade deal in decades? And it took how many years?

I won’t disagree it’s an accomplishment for both sides. But let’s not forget that:

1. The deal hasn’t been fully scrutinized yet by lawyers and experts; 

2. Many issues are not covered or only on a high level, so the time of one year won’t be the effective time; and 

3. Both sides weren’t exactly starting from scratch given the past years of EU membership, so it’s not fully comparable. 
 

 

16 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Barnier, Frost and their teams have shown what very hard work can achieve. Hard work and long hours.

Fully agree. 

 

A troll post has been removed

28 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Erasmus has been superseded.

 

New Turing scheme to support thousands of students to study and work abroad

 

 

To correct you, the UK has withdrawn from Erasmus and established the Turing program.

 

The Turing program is not a replacement for Erasmus.

OMG....just thought...imagine if we could have just rolled over the FTA we already had with the EU........

35 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You need to read the 2,000 pages to understand the detail. As do we all.

 

Fishing is emotive, and a political hot potato. Economically unimportant in the scheme of things.

 

To be fair, fishermen have to finance boats and equipment which needs time. The period in which the reduced catches are allowed has been significantly reduced and then will revert to Britain to decide. The fish caught in the waters in question is sold mainly to mainland Europe, by British and EU fishermen. British fishermen will still have access to this market. Ironically, the different tastes in types of fish mean not much of these are sold into the UK.

 

To get a balanced view, the whole document needs reading, But on this thorny issue I would congratulate Barnier and Frost and their teams on coming up with a workable compromise. 

 

You won't get a balanced view from many MSM sources. Certainly not the BBC and most definitely not politicians like the SNP. TVF isn't likely to be better. So at some point, everyone interested has to read the detail and small print.  Happy New Year.

Reading the deal and understanding the deal are not the same thing.

 

I’m not sure many people have the necessary legal knowledge to understand it, and I fully expect it’s implications to reveal themselves over months, if not years.

 

Your habitual nonsense re MSN and the BBC is notes.

24 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I fully expect it’s implications to reveal themselves over months, if not years.

That’s when Nigel and his clowns will crawl back to shout “treason” from the sidelines. A never ending story it will be. 

8 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Read the Lisbon Treaty and its effects.

 

https://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2011/june/tradoc_147977.pdf

 

All trade agreements must be approved by  Parliament to be ratified.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

 

And the Treaty of Rome.

 

https://www.oecd.org/economy/growth/1886277.pdf

 

https://www.robert-schuman.eu/en/european-issues/0502-the-eu-s-trade-policy-and-new-challenges

 

So you could not trade outside the EU without the EU's permission. One of the major reasons and benefits for Brexit, so the UK can trade with other countries without asking for the EU's parliaments permission

 

Ok, thanks for Rule of Law, not going to wade through the T&Cs. By way of clarification did HMGs trade deal with PRC in 2015 require ratification from the EU; I never read about such a matter being reported. e.g. no mention of EU oversight. It seems to me the deal, in reality, was a sovereign government decision.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/24/britains-deals-with-china-billions-what-do-they-mean

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by simple1

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

No 10 say otherwise, but thankfully you're here 

 

What the Government publishes on its ‘announcement web page’ is by definition ‘Propaganda.

 

But thank fully you’re here to demonstrate how it works on some folk.

9 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

That’s when Nigel and his clowns will crawl back to shout “treason” from the sidelines. A never ending story it will be. 

The Fishing industry are already ranting.

7 hours ago, vinny41 said:

As i have stated I have given you the section and page number you need to read the document

Are you really unable to cut and paste? 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What the Government publishes on its ‘announcement web page’ is by definition ‘Propaganda.

 

But thank fully you’re here to demonstrate how it works on some folk.

It was posted to neuter the idiots that had sought to weaponize the situation several pages ago & with no indication whatsoever as to my own view of that particular aspect of B-B-Brexit.

1 minute ago, evadgib said:

It was posted to neuter the idiots that had sought to weaponize the situation several pages ago & with no indication whatsoever as to my own view of that particular aspect of B-B-Brexit.

So you posted government propaganda.

 

 

7 hours ago, candide said:

Come back when UK makes a significant deal with a country which has not already a similar deal with the EU. Otherwise your point is irrelevant.

This is the major question: the promise made by Brexiteers politicians is like the "oven - ready" and the "we hold all the cards".

 

Until now all we have seen is the UK replicate or fail to replicate EU trade deals. 

 

Can any Brexiteer here explain us with actual data how on hearth :

1. Why after months, these promises did not materialize. The Japan deal has been scrutinized now, same thing with other deals. 
2. Through what practical way deals with Brazil, USA, China, India will be advantageous for a weakened Britain? How can British Services get a deal without sacrificing in return British farmers (Brazil, US), immigration control (India), NHS and pharmaceuticals (USA), British industry (China). 
3. The biggest of all trade deals is the one which is passed with the EU right now, it's in front of our very eyes. This deal surrenders a serious share of British fishing, aligns British industry on EU reglementation and gets absolutely nothing on services 

. 

Edited December 27, 20205 yr by Hi from France

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So you posted government propaganda.

 

 

I'll settle for 'on topic'.

24 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Are you really unable to cut and paste? 

Unable to cut and paste due to size and forum rules on number of lines

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1376851/brexit-news-deal-eu-uk-trade-talks-boris-johnson-non-tariff-barriers-single-market-spt

 

Must be grim if the Express is reporting this.....(more lies, smoke and mirrors from the liar-in-chief)

 

Alex Altmann, a partner in charge of Brexit-related issues at Blick Rothenberg, an accounting and tax practice, told the New York Times: “It’s a massive problem that is going to cost industry millions of pounds and euros.

“At the end of the day, that’s going to be passed on to consumers.”

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

Erasmus has been superseded.

 

New Turing scheme to support thousands of students to study and work abroad

Talked about this already 

 

1. Please give us a comparison with Erasmus and show us how this is not dramatically inferior. Dramatically. 
2. This is an announcement, a promise how can it be done in a few months? Higher education exchanges take years to sign /implement 
3. This is outbound only, this is not an exchange attracting talent in Britain, this is a disastrous system sending the British students abroad, with a lot of them risking not to come back. You are self brain draining, 

33 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Ok, thanks for Rule of Law, not going to wade through the T&Cs. By way of clarification did HMGs trade deal with PRC in 2015 require ratification from the EU; I never read about such a matter being reported. e.g. no mention of EU oversight. It seems to me the deal, in reality, was a sovereign government decision.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/24/britains-deals-with-china-billions-what-do-they-mean

Despite what the brexiteers would like to make out, the EU has a fairly open trade policy under WTO with most countries where there is no agreement, China being one of them. What the article is referring to is business deals not trade agreements as such. The UK has dealt with many other countries as an EU member state on the same basis. The UK will not be rolling over any agreements with the likes of China as there is no agreement to start with.

Deals involving services have never been included in the EU trade policy.

 

Previous dealings with China could very well come back and bite where the sun doesn't shine.

 

Brussels has launched a process to recover nearly €2bn from the UK for failing to crackdown on customs fraud by Chinese clothing importers. The European Commission sent London a formal notice on Thursday that the UK must pay customs duties lost on undervalued Chinese textiles and clothing brought into the bloc through Britain between November 2011- December 2017.

https://www.ft.com/content/0b23eb4e-22d1-11e8-ae48-60d3531b7d11

Just now, Hi from France said:

Talked about this already 

 

1. Please give us a comparison with Erasmus and show us how this is not dramatically inferior. Dramatically. 
2. This is an announcement, a promise how can it be done in a few months? Higher education exchanges take years to sign /implement 
3. This is outbound only, this is not an exchange attracting talent in Britain, this is a disastrous system sending the British students abroad, with a lot of them risking not to come back. You are self brain draining, 

Point 3......EU students net contribution to the UK economy is estimated to be £450 million a year....that has now been lost.

 

Pulling out of Erasmus was a childish...'we are no longer part of the EU' jab...pathetic.

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You need to read the 2,000 pages to understand the detail. As do we all.

 

Fishing is emotive, and a political hot potato. Economically unimportant in the scheme of things.

 

To be fair, fishermen have to finance boats and equipment which needs time. The period in which the reduced catches are allowed has been significantly reduced and then will revert to Britain to decide. The fish caught in the waters in question is sold mainly to mainland Europe, by British and EU fishermen. British fishermen will still have access to this market. Ironically, the different tastes in types of fish mean not much of these are sold into the UK.

 

To get a balanced view, the whole document needs reading, But on this thorny issue I would congratulate Barnier and Frost and their teams on coming up with a workable compromise. 

 

You won't get a balanced view from many MSM sources. Certainly not the BBC and most definitely not politicians like the SNP. TVF isn't likely to be better. So at some point, everyone interested has to read the detail and small print.  Happy New Year.

"Fishing is emotive, and a political hot potato."

That only applies to part of the industry. In Scotland there is about twice as many employed in the onshore fishing sector as the offshore, but onshore fishing is viewed as political collateral damage. Under WTO terms many rural communities on the west coast of Scotland would be decimated as the bulk of the onshore production is exported to Europe and tariffs would kill that stone dead.

If the SNP do not speak up for the communities involved in onshore fishing, who will?

11 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Point 3......EU students net contribution to the UK economy is estimated to be £450 million a year....that has now been lost.

 

Pulling out of Erasmus was a childish...'we are no longer part of the EU' jab...pathetic.

Do you have any idea on current and future cost of Erasmus + and which country in the EU benefits the most

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Point 3......EU students net contribution to the UK economy is estimated to be £450 million a year....that has now been lost.

 

Pulling out of Erasmus was a childish...'we are no longer part of the EU' jab...pathetic.

UK universities had enormous losses on the lucrative Chinese students market with Covid-19 and political tensions over Hong Kong. 

This will not get better as early as next year. 

 

In addition, UK universities just lost the intake of European students through Erasmus (if my memory serves well, 120.000 of the brightest European students who have been able to get grants). These European students are the future PhD, the life and blood of laboratories. 

 

Right now, UK universities are laying off academics and staff and shutting down entire departments. 

 

35 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I'll settle for 'on topic'.

OK, ‘on topic’ propaganda.

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Do you have any idea on current and future cost of Erasmus + and which country in the EU benefits the most

Is this the bit where you try to define the cost of education by counting the money spent?

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I can't link to this. It's a secret.

 

Sounds better than :

 

I can't link to this. It's a lie.

 

 

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Is this the bit where you try to define the cost of education by counting the money spent?

Touchy I asked Do you have any idea on current and future cost of Erasmus + and which country in the EU benefits the most

Is that information EU secret and not for our eyes only