Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[transam]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

You seem to have difficulty accepting it was his opinion as Salmond explained a week before the referendum took place.

 

There are now people in Scotland who believe their best interest lies in independence. Why should Westminster renegade on what was agreed in the Edinburgh Agreement.

There have always been people who believe their best interests lie in independence, same as some Brits wanted to be part of Hitlers world, bit different, but a fact...

 

If it came to a public discussion, the Scots would for sure be told they would be dead in the water alone, but then again, SNP thinks the EU will be their saviour, another laugh......????

[transam]

23 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Has scotlands elected representatives indicated they want another vote?

 

You think boris went to scotland to argue against a vote was for nothing?

Is that what Boris went to Scotland for, or was it just doing his job as PM of the UK....Tell me..?

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, Sujo said:

Then there was brexit which is no small change. 

So, if the UK leaving the EU referendum result was "Remain", the SNP would not be asking for another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that what you are saying? Scottish nationalists would be happy with the past referendum result and remain in the UK?

[youreavinalaff]

3 hours ago, Sujo said:

the uk voted to join the eu, period.

Incorrect. The UK voted to join the EC.

[vogie]

27 minutes ago, Sujo said:

Does that mean there cannot be another one? I did ask you where in the agreement it states that. Crickets.

If the SNP are still going in 50 years time and Nicola Sturgeon gets an early parole there is every chance there might be another referendum, but I cannot promise this.

[vogie]

24 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

You seem to have difficulty accepting it was his opinion as Salmond explained a week before the referendum took place.

 

There are now people in Scotland who believe their best interest lies in independence. Why should Westminster renegade on what was agreed in the Edinburgh Agreement.

Of course there are people in Scotland that believes it is in their best interest to have another referendum, but there are others who don't believe it is in their best interest also, all of Scotland must count, not just the Nationalists, dare I ask your what particular interest to the Nationalists is?

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, if the UK leaving the EU referendum result was "Remain", the SNP would not be asking for another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that what you are saying? Scottish nationalists would be happy with the past referendum result and remain in the UK?

 

Going by their definition, there would not have been a material change in the circumstances of the UK. But there was, so we are. 

[RuamRudy]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course there are people in Scotland that believes it is in their best interest to have another referendum, but there are others who don't believe it is in their best interest also, all of Scotland must count, not just the Nationalists, dare I ask your what particular interest to the Nationalists is?

 

For the sake of efficiency, instead of typing "the Nationalists" (15 letters), you can save yourself 4 letters by typing "the majority". They both mean the same thing in this case. 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

For the sake of efficiency, instead of typing "the Nationalists" (15 letters), you can save yourself 4 letters by typing "the majority". They both mean the same thing in this case. 

It wouldn't hurt you to follow your own guidelines too, the Tories is much shorter than "the nasty party"

Sent by a "parasite" from south of the border.

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

It wouldn't hurt you to follow your own guidelines too, the Tories is much shorter than "the nasty party"

Sent by a "parasite" from south of the border.

 

Touché, as our very good friends and long time allies, the French, like to say. 

[Phulublub]

28 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

So, if the UK leaving the EU referendum result was "Remain", the SNP would not be asking for another referendum on Scotland leaving the UK. Is that what you are saying? Scottish nationalists would be happy with the past referendum result and remain in the UK?

I doubt that, but there would not be near as many in Scotland now coming round to agreeing with their stance.  The result of the EU referendum is the direct cause of so many altering their thoughts - me included.  I was an ardent advocate of Scotland staying in the Union. I am no longer so sure. 

 

But unlike most of the Little Englanders here, of the three friends I know who were always in support of Independence, I had and continue to have good relations with two and we can discuss differences in a grown up manner.  Perhaps the difference is that we all lived in Scotland so actually know a little of the ountry and are not keybaord warriors operating from hundreds or thousands of miles away with little or no personal experience of the Country or its peoples.

 

PH

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Touché, as our very good friends and long time allies, the French, like to say. 

All my French friends used to say "j'ai une gueule de bois" ????????????????

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

All my French friends used to say "j'ai une gueule de bois" ????????????????

only say that if you are drunk

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Mavideol said:

only say that if you are drunk

That's my friends.????

[Mavideol]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

That's my friends.????

sorry, my mistake, you did said that your friends said that .... so you never had a gueule de bois ? hard to believe 555

[cleopatra2]

33 minutes ago, vogie said:

Of course there are people in Scotland that believes it is in their best interest to have another referendum, but there are others who don't believe it is in their best interest also, all of Scotland must count, not just the Nationalists, dare I ask your what particular interest to the Nationalists is?

I agree with you all people in Scotland count.

I think it cannot be in the UKs best interest if Scotland does not have a lawfull means of self determination. The UK needs to establish some rules regarding the implementation of referendums.

Whilst Westminster can deny a Sec30 order , the independence movement is not going away. The FM and Salmond may fade away but the danger is a fanatic independence supporter becomes leader and declares UDI.

Polls have consistently shown a majority for separating from UK. Whilst they are not perfect .At present they are the only indication of current sentiment.This may change following Elections . The only true test is to ask the question. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

sorry, my mistake, you did said that your friends said that .... so you never had a gueule de bois ? hard to believe 555

Beaucoup, I had more than a gueule de bois. My friends said it, thats where I learnt it.

[KhaoYai]

Rather than the United Kingdom, why not form a looser but legally binding (for security purposes) alliance.  If a nation no longer wishes to be part of the UK, why force them to do so?

 

To prevent further friction though, I think an independence vote would need to be much greater than a simple majority.

 

However, there is substance in Boris Johnson's stance that the SNP can't just keep having more and more votes until they get their way.  Then again, there is also substance in the SNP's claim that Brexit fundamentally changed things.

Edited February 1, 2021 by KhaoYai

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

I agree with you all people in Scotland count.

I think it cannot be in the UKs best interest if Scotland does not have a lawfull means of self determination. The UK needs to establish some rules regarding the implementation of referendums.

Whilst Westminster can deny a Sec30 order , the independence movement is not going away. The FM and Salmond may fade away but the danger is a fanatic independence supporter becomes leader and declares UDI.

Polls have consistently shown a majority for separating from UK. Whilst they are not perfect .At present they are the only indication of current sentiment.This may change following Elections . The only true test is to ask the question. 

Polls generally give the answer the person that pays for them to be commissioned want them to say, where a poll is taken, who it is taken from and how the question is actually worded. So would you agree that the only definitive proof is the Scottish referendum result.

[Sujo]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

Polls generally give the answer the person that pays for them to be commissioned want them to say, where a poll is taken, who it is taken from and how the question is actually worded. So would you agree that the only definitive proof is the Scottish referendum result.

Brexit was a poll.

 

Scotland should decide what it wants. When do you think those not in scotland should allow them another vote for what they want?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Sujo

[youreavinalaff]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Going by their definition, there would not have been a material change in the circumstances of the UK. But there was, so we are. 

Why dodge the question? Just answer it. Throughout this thread the Scottish nationalists' argument has been Brexit. So, if Brexit had not happened, the wish for an independent Scotland would have gone away,right?

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why dodge the question? Just answer it. Throughout this thread the Scottish nationalists' argument has been Brexit. So, if Brexit had not happened, the wish for an independent Scotland would have gone away,right?

It would never go away but brexit certainly brought it front and centre, and rightly so.

 

what scotland wants should be entirely up to them, regardless of the reasons.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Sujo

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

Why dodge the question? Just answer it. Throughout this thread the Scottish nationalists' argument has been Brexit. So, if Brexit had not happened, the wish for an independent Scotland would have gone away,right?

Bad wording, the wish would not have gone away, the dream would not have gone away... but the foundation for holding a new referendum to let the Scottish people give a clear answer to whether the UK is worth being part of now that the promise of staying part of the EU through the UK is no more.   In other words, if not for Brexit -- the threat of Scottish separation would be dead and just a dream for a future generation to achieve. 

[CharlieH]

Reported post and response to it removed.

[youreavinalaff]

18 minutes ago, Sujo said:

what scotland wants should be entirely up to them, regardless of the reasons.

I agree and have never said other wise.

 

In case you missed it, Scotland did decide.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

I agree and have never said other wise.

 

In case you missed it, Scotland did decide.

They decided to stay in the EU... by way of being part of the UK... They cannot have both, so time to chose...

[sharksy]

I presume that if Scotland does go for "Independence", then Scotland will allow Islanders, such as the Shetlands to break away from Scotland, if they wish to.

[sharksy]

One reason the UK doesn't want an Independent Scotland might be, to save them from themselves.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/snp-must-rethink-its-economic-model-independent-scotland/

 

Very interesting, balanced read.

[bkkcanuck8]

6 minutes ago, sharksy said:

One reason the UK doesn't want an Independent Scotland might be, to save them from themselves.

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/snp-must-rethink-its-economic-model-independent-scotland/

 

Very interesting, balanced read.

The currency (short-term) is a fairly easy thing to solve - just setup a system similar to Hong Kong - where you have a Monetary Authority and an Exchange Fund (which is basically an asset backed currency - containing a pool of funds (containing GBP, EUR and USD among others and other fixed assets) and then the currency is backed by those assets.  There is no need to necessarily use the GBP directly.

[herfiehandbag]

14 hours ago, Phulublub said:

But unlike most of the Little Englanders here, of the three friends I know who were always in support of Independence, I had and continue to have good relations with two and we can discuss differences in a grown up manner. 

"Little Englander"

 

"Plastic Jock"!

 

If you start calling people derogatory names because you don't agree with their views, you must expect to get it back.