‘Vaccine passports’ could allow foreigners to visit Thailand without quarantine: TAT

[cdemundo]

16 hours ago, luk AJ said:

 

can you please share the source that vaccinated people may still present a risk of transmission?

Wall Street Journal January 11, 2021 : "Can You Still Spread Covid-19 After You Get Vaccinated?"

"Do the Covid vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus, or do they just protect you from getting sick?

Scientists don’t know yet—and the uncertainty has big implications during the rollout of the vaccines."

[6NS]

14 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

at this stage COVID is endemic everywhere in the world. Tracing is only useful to prevent outbreaks but we're already into month 12 and we've seen 2 "waves". How much of the world has caught COVID already I wonder? No country has tested 100% of the population so we don't really even know. Could be higher than 50% even.

OK, some facts. The Spanish flew killed 220 Million with a population ratio to equal out population now. We have so far lost only .9 million from Covid 19.  What do you fellas think is going on. Look to Australian news for these figures. One of their Ministers resigned yesterday and told this story in discus with his Government. 

[zzaa09]

16 hours ago, Blumpie said:

Nobody is certain if you can or you cannot, so the worldwide assumption is that you probably can.  

Just like our vaccines may only work for a year.  

Stay tuned.

Vaccines just prevent the individual from being ill, it doesn't prevent one from picking it up again - being infected and and actively transmitted. 

Actually, quite a number of experts have made this to be common knowledge. 

[cdemundo]

16 hours ago, jackdd said:

the vaccines are only 50-95% effective,

Just a thought.  If a vaccine has "50% efficacy" it reduces the risk of becoming ill from COVID by half.  A 95% efficacy almost completely eliminates the risk of infection.  50% efficacy does not mean you have a 50% chance of getting sick.  

[Janner1]

17 hours ago, luk AJ said:

can you please share the source that vaccinated people may still present a risk of transmission?

At this time it is all speculation as the scientists readily admit that they do not know yet but are currently examining the possibility.

So far there is no evidence either way.

[cdemundo]

9 minutes ago, 6NS said:

OK, some facts. The Spanish flew killed 220 Million with a population ratio to equal out population now. We have so far lost only .9 million from Covid 19.  What do you fellas think is going on. Look to Australian news for these figures. One of their Ministers resigned yesterday and told this story in discus with his Government. 

Over 2 million deaths from COVID 19 worldwide.

[RobU]

16 hours ago, Geoffggi said:

Do these type of passports actually exist other than in TAT eyes? also as has been pointed out by Tropicalevo the word could should be replaced by will if any sort of credence is to be associated to this post 

In the UK you get a record card when you are vaccinated it also is recorded on your NHS Medical record and thus can be certified by your GP in a letter on headed notepaper

[cdemundo]

37 minutes ago, BillyBobzTeeth said:

Too many deaths being reported from the vaccine. 

This info for the US was taken down but you can still see it here. ????

Over 71 million shots worldwide, 24.5 million in USA.  (From Bloomberg Online).

How many post vaccine deaths have been reported?

[Albert Zweistein]

15 hours ago, Poet said:

You edited your excerpt to end right before the third paragraph which explains why that requiring all visitors to be vaccinated, combined with vaccinating their own most vulnerable, will be a "good enough" solution for most governments:
 

Forget what politicians say. The reality is that vaccinations were always going to be the PR escape that governments needed to sell their populations on returning to normality. Even if the vaccines had been only 50% effective, they would still be used in this way, because no economy can survive permanent lockdown.

Everyone in business and government knows this, it simply can't be said out loud because the media will whip everyone up into a frenzy if it is suggested that even one person dying is acceptable. It is, in fact, totally acceptable to every elite in the world.

As it happens, the vaccines appears to be very effective. Also, despite all the dolts going around reciting the mantra that "vaccinated people can still be infectious" as if they have just said something significant, every medical expert expects them to be far less infectious. The studies have not yet been conducted to prove that, but common sense tells us that these viruses need to get a good grip in the respiratory system in order to create and emit more particles. So, overall, we are looking at dramatically lower R numbers as soon as a signicant proportion of the population is innoculated.

. The reality is that risks, of any type, are usually lowered, not eliminated, and that is good enough.

 

Again, don't listen to what politicians or the media say.

 

And don't believe everything what the self pronounced experts are posting on this blog.

[DJ54]

Read yesterday California has a new strain....

 

Read Hong Kong Cathay Pacific Pilots and crew have to quarantine 14 days in hotel and monitored 7 days after... 

 

it’s tough everywhere..,

[kiwikeith]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

A reasonable approach.

 

Although vaccinated people may still present a risk of transmission. Those who have been vaccinated and taken a pre-flight Covid-19 test have a minimal chance of carrying the virus in to Thailand. 

 

 

Other countries have a smaller ‘quarantine requirements’ i.e. a Covid-19 RT PCR test on arrival and quarantine for a day while awaiting test results. Not idea, but much better than what currently exists. 

 

The issue with any of the plans is that there is no water-tight solution and any easing brings additional risk of the spread of Covid-19.

 

 

Confirmed vaccination along with pre-flight and arrival Covid-19 tests (and track and trace) should handle the vast majority of risk while allowing opening Thailands tourist sector back up.

 

It is critical that Thailands tourism sector be allowed off its knees and take steps towards getting back on its feet - the potential devastation to millions without a robust social welfare safety net is essential not only to those individuals but the fabric of the nation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem here is, no vaccine manufacturer knows if vaccinated people will be able to pass on covid. 

 

And even if you have a vaccine certificate [I can't see special passports for Covid-19] maybe just a certification. 

 

Then if they still don't know if the vaccinated are going to be contagious,or able to be reinfected, then most countries will require quarantine on re entry. 

There is a long way to go yet with the C19 vaccine 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

The problem here is, no vaccine manufacturer knows if vaccinated people will be able to pass on covid

do you mean, that no vaccine manufacturer knows if vaccinated people cant get covid 19. if so, they do know it is called the vaccine efficacy rate and for some vaccines it is as high as 95%

From the official US CDC website , updater Jan 5

"All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States have been shown to be highly effective at preventing COVID-19. "

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

7 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

And even if you have a vaccine certificate [I can't see special passports for Covid-19] maybe just a certification. 

That's what a vaccine passport is, it is simply a certificate that you have been vaccinated, the date and type of vaccine, what the receiving country does with it is up to them. Some countries will have no restrictions, others will have reduced restrictions, too early to tell. 

10 minutes ago, kiwikeith said:

Then if they still don't know if the vaccinated are going to be contagious,or able to be reinfected, then most countries will require quarantine on re entry. 

There is a long way to go yet with the C19 vaccine 

as we said there is a 95% prevention, with some vaccines, with others there is a lower percentage of infection. 

Even with the 95% efficacy rate there is still a 5% chance that you can get infected. but if you do there is a good chance that you will have a mild infection 

 

"Based on what we know about vaccines for other diseases and early data from clinical trials, experts believe that getting a COVID-19 vaccine may also help keep you from getting seriously ill even if you do get COVID-19. "

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/vaccine-benefits.html

 

this efficacy rate was based on very few people being vaccinated at the time of the test and a large pool of available hosts to interact with , as more people getting vaccinated  , the available pool of possible  hosts will decrease providing less chance of interaction with available hosts and thus less chance of transmission. further increasing the 95% efficacy rate.  It is what they call Herd immunity.  

 

[chaihot]

18 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Already the buzz the world over - passports that have been certified in this manner. 

 

Can already imagine the bureaucratic clusterphuck that might incur among some circles that won't get it or accept such "officialdom".

HI

I think the word you were looking for was "official-DUMB" ... LOL

[Bkktodd]

The tourism authority says so-called ‘vaccine passports’ would enable foreign tourists to stay in Thailand without needing to spend the first 14 days of their trip in an alternative state quarantine facility.
 

this goats me when i read everywhere  14 days.  Its really 16. The day you arrive counts as day Zero. 14 full nights and released on the 15 day. That adds up to 16 days.  

[248900_1469958220]

7 hours ago, mrfill said:

I believe the idea is that because the vaccine reduces the symptoms, the spread is less because the patient is not coughing and spluttering as much.

But those Covid farts are still the same,...Phew!!!

[Blumpie]

2 hours ago, Don Chance said:

This will work but on arrival to Thailand you will all need anal swabs!!

I kind of want to make that picture my avatar but I think it may be over the top....

[D M G]

What is the problem with self-quarantine? 

– It’s enforceable by both manual and modern means
– It has an immediate impact on the economy with a limited danger of spreading of the virus
– It can be rolled out to select groups: the Retired, Employed, Educator, etc
– It’s a Win/Win for the Government, the unemployed locals and the disgruntled foreigner

I have not heard a legitimate objection or discussion. This should be questioned, addressed, analyzed

[sirineou]

21 minutes ago, D M G said:

What is the problem with self-quarantine? 

– It’s enforceable by both manual and modern means
– It has an immediate impact on the economy with a limited danger of spreading of the virus
– It can be rolled out to select groups: the Retired, Employed, Educator, etc
– It’s a Win/Win for the Government, the unemployed locals and the disgruntled foreigner

I have not heard a legitimate objection or discussion. This should be questioned, addressed, analyzed

If you have not heard a legitimate objection it is simply because you are not listening. 

It is difficult to inforse, especially, it costs money to enforce, and the hotels will not make any   quarantine money. 

I think initially it was a self quarantine, and they caught several people not adhering to it, and going out. Yes if you catch them they can get in trouble and pay fines, but that does not help any of the people that they infected.

 

[D M G]

11 minutes ago, sirineou said:

If you have not heard a legitimate objection it is simply because you are not listening. 

It is difficult to inforse, especially, it costs money to enforce, and the hotels will not make any   quarantine money. 

I think initially it was a self quarantine, and they caught several people not adhering to it, and going out. Yes if you catch them they can get in trouble and pay fines, but that does not help any of the people that they infected.

 

Would your opinion change if this continues for years and years?  It costs money to enforce.  It costs the economy today.  There are always cheaters.  New ideas are needed.  Today's solution is not good enough.  I offered an option.

[brain150]

Just in case anybody wants to know where all this comes from you can read it here:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/01/what-is-a-vaccine-passport-and-will-you-need-one-the-next-time-you-travel/

 

Nothing new about it and for sure not an idea from TAT

[sirineou]

17 minutes ago, D M G said:

Would your opinion change if this continues for years and years?  It costs money to enforce.  It costs the economy today.  There are always cheaters.  New ideas are needed.  Today's solution is not good enough.  I offered an option.

I understand. Initially  I was of the same opinion also. 

First let me say that I am stuck in the US with the pandemic, lucky for me I have the wife with me, and a home to stay in, so we are Ok for the moment. But we need to get back to our Thai home and our dogs, we have been away for a year now, good thing we have the wife's sister taking care of the house and dogs. So I understand and share  your  frustration.

If this continued for years obviously changes would need to be made, the current situation is not sustainable for that long.  

  But for now it seems to be working well for Thailand. What we need to realise is that the Tourist sector is only 20% of the overall economy, and  and we are an even smaller component of that. Even though GDP has shrunk, it is still cruising pretty good relative to other countries on other sectors. . 

Though I don't like it, I think Thailand needs to stay the course for a few more months.

   I think by the end of this spring . unless mutations change the trajectory of covid 19 and the vaccination schedule, restrictions will be relaxed. April we are  going to Greece, for a couple of months and then , hopefully we are coming to Thailand.

Letch keep our fingers crossed. 

[Elkski]

There is that 10 million number.  So 25% or down 75% rather than 90%.  Fir what benefit?  To whom?  At what risk?  Look what a few cases did.  And has the UK variant really got a foot hold yet?  How much testing is going on in all provinces.  

Until testing is free everywhere we know close to nothing about the current situation.   CM says no new cases in 30 days.  But is testing widely available? Free?  With no symptoms?  People say so many starving people and GF says so many more street urchins beggars on Suk.  Test price is what?  1 or 10 days salary and you think sick people will want to get tested.  

[Autonuaq]

22 hours ago, luk AJ said:

 

can you please share the source that vaccinated people may still present a risk of transmission?

the vaccine only works for the SARS-CoV-2 that is has been deigned for. Just like the Flu vaccine does.  Then the vaccines of each manufacturer work different and have different protection level as you could have red in the media the pas months.

 

then we have that the vaccine works differently in for example Caucasians or Asians or Black people. and also worked differently in male and female as well there are age related differences

and then you also have the way it works based on blood type and resus factor.

this is also covered in the media

 

Above this is the problem that the virus also has mutation the once know now are the British mutation, the South African mutation and the Brazilian mutation. The manufacturers think the vaccines will work for the British and the South African mutation. still they will adjust and tweak the vaccines.

for the Brazilian they are not sure if the vaccines will work.

 

so the have to adjust and tweak to cover this know mutation too.

 

tweak and adjust is in this no protection guaranteed and also People who have got the vaccination are still capable off transmitting due to the level of protection when the vaccine is administered. 90% means that out of 100 people still 10 can spread the virus or get sick.

 

we all know the virus is among us long before it is detected or begin diagnosed.

 

the south African virus as well the British virus were already in place in november in some European countries. the Brazilian is just flown in by people who went to meet family.

 

all will work when all have had the vaccine and still new mutation will travel with them if they have the change. we are just having super spreading high ways with tourism and party events.

 

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

8 hours ago, Thomas Hannah said:

OK.i made a mistake i should have said.127,980.now what is your answer.?

My answer is get used to the fact the pandemic is over and you can stop being scared of shadows.

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[FarFlungFalang]

38 minutes ago, Autonuaq said:

90% means that out of 100 people still 10 can spread the virus or get sick.

Who are they going to spread it to?Themselves remember to other 90% won't get sick and have had the virus .The pandemic is finished.

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

7 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

 

if you'll notice, the word "immune" itself does not appear in either the op or the article by traveldaily that seems to be the origin of the photo.

 

even the op states "File photo: Travel Daily (for reference only)"

 

no government officials, no reporters, no editors used the word "immune."  the passport photo doesn't appear to come from any government office.

 

blame the intern in the traveldaily graphics department for making a cool but fictitious covid passport illustration.

When have I blamed a certain part, or showed the wish to do so? I just posted that it´s pure stupidity to create and use a photo/mockup lik that connected to the information given.

[Thomas Hannah]

1 hour ago, FarFlungFalang said:

My answer is get used to the fact the pandemic is over and you can stop being scared of shadows.

Its only just begun.Its a flu.it could be here for many years.

[ttrd]

9 minutes ago, Thomas Hannah said:

Its only just begun.Its a flu.it could be here for many years.

Yes, for decades if not generations ...

 

The vaccination will not make it disappear, but help us live with it - and we will ... 

[FarFlungFalang]

16 minutes ago, Thomas Hannah said:

Its only just begun.Its a flu.it could be here for many years.

That's right it could be here for many years or it could fade like Sars 1.I'm sure I've had it though no test to confirm but had most of the classic symptoms and the pandemic has been bad ,a bit like 1958 and 1968 where about one million died when the global population was half of what it is today so in my view it's comparable.What science has managed to achieve in a short space of time is nothing short of astonishing (some might even say miraculous) though I will personally choose not to take the vaccine as I will treat it like most other viral infections I live with or die from it.I choose to not live in fear of it as the media and others seems to think I should.Enjoy life while you can because death is one of the certainties of life.

Edited January 28, 2021 by FarFlungFalang