UK Travel Ban

[KhaoYai]

14 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

As you've implied the guidance is very sparse, you can travel abroad "if legally permitted to do so" but clarification of who that applies to, isn't readily available.

Thank you, its refreshing to hear from someone who actually understands the situation rather than accuses me of making it hard for myself.

 

Yes I had read that and as you say - its lacking in clarification.  On another UK government website it says something like:

 

You can only travel overseas for essential reasons including:

• Business
• Education
• Medical

I've highlighted 'including' because that suggests the list is not finite. However, trying to find out what other reasons would make travel permissible is proving very difficult.  Hopefully I will hear back from the Home Office soon.

 

In the meantime, I'm not prepared to pay for a flight, Fit to Fly Certificate and a Covid 19 test when there's a good chance I'll be refused. There's also a possibility that I would not get a refund on my ASQ booking.

[richard_smith237]

I tend to agree with the post who said you are creating your own hurdles. 

 

You can show previous visa history, you have a driving licence and you have Thai Bank accounts. 

You have sufficient proof to show you have a base there. Can you also show you have a home there? (yellow house ebook etc?).

 

Regarding Visa: 3 Months Non-Imm O (based on marriage) followed by 12 months extension of stay (based on Marriage). 

 

 

You’re getting hung up on terminology, arguing a case against yourself and justifying your negativity with the misunderstanding of additional costs for CoE. 

 

It's clear you have ’sufficient’ reason to travel - Thailand is home, change your attitude to one of more positivity, don’t over think it. 

 

26 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

In the meantime, I'm not prepared to pay for a flight, Fit to Fly Certificate and a Covid 19 test when there's a good chance I'll be refused. There's also a possibility that I would not get a refund on my ASQ booking.

 

ASQ Booking: Fully refundable on Agoda (don’t have to pay until day before).

Flight: Get a refundable ticket (or one that you can rebook)

Insurance (you’ll not get that refunded if you don’t use it - but that is inexpensive)

 

Application for CoE is free (just need the Visa, flight booking, ASQ booking, Insurance)

Fit to Fly Certificate: only need to be done one you have a confirmed flight.

Covid-test: only need to be done one you have a confirmed flight.

 

Its unlikely that if you have a Certificate of Entry you will be prevented from travelling at the Airport because you are ‘British’... 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

I have just spoken to the police at Manchester Airport - they are fully aware of the government's announcement and of the Home Secretary's statement that the police will be carrying out checks and passengers asked to complete a travel declaration. The police have not been told what they should do and have no such document as yet, they are also seeking clarification.

 

Anyone currently living in the UK will be aware that making sweeping statements, totally lacking in detail, statements that seriously impact on people's lives, has been a feature of this government since the start of the Pandemic.  I don't think Johnson has a hope of keeping his job at the next election - if he lasts that long.

 

These are difficult times and government's have to make difficult and sometimes complicated decisions. What is needed at the moment, is a government that is capable of doing the job, this lot are totally inept.

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

I have just spoken to the police at Manchester Airport - they are fully aware of the government's announcement and of the Home Secretary's statement that the police will be carrying out checks and passengers asked to complete a travel declaration. The police have not been told what they should do and have no such document as yet, they are also seeking clarification.

 

Anyone currently living in the UK will be aware that making sweeping statements, totally lacking in detail, statements that seriously impact on people's lives, has been a feature of this government since the start of the Pandemic.  I don't think Johnson has a hope of keeping his job at the next election - if he lasts that long.

 

These are difficult times and government's have to make difficult and sometimes complicated decisions. What is needed at the moment, is a government that is capable of doing the job, this lot are totally inept.

 

 

Don’t get yourself all worked up about this... 

 

As you have written, people are being asked to complete a declaration - thats it.

 

Carry on as normal, make your bookings (refundable) apply for your CoE. 

Get your Covid test and fit to fly just before you travel back. 

Prep the necessary paper-work for re-entry to Thailand. 

 

 

Present the travel declaration at the airport.

 

Do not over think it and twist off in a panic, at the moment it seems you can’t see the trees for the forest.

Take a step back and breath.

 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Flight: Get a refundable ticket (or one that you can rebook)

Etihad have stated that a normal ticket will only be refundable if restrictions that make travel impossible were made after the ticket was purchased. A fully refundable ticket is much more expensive.

 

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

ASQ Booking: Fully refundable on Agoda (don’t have to pay until day before)

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Fit to Fly Certificate: only need to be done one you have a confirmed flight.

Covid-test: only need to be done one you have a confirmed flight.

As things stand the airlines will issue a ticket and confirm it.  You will only know that you will be not be allowed to fly when you reach the airport by which time you will already have got your PCR test and Fit to Fly.

 

14 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its unlikely that if you have a Certificate of Entry you will be prevented from travelling at the Airport because you are ‘British’... 

What do you mean?  The whole point of this thread is to make people aware of exactly the opposite of that.  The UK government doesn't issue COE's - the Thai Embassy does that.  The UK government have stated that UK Citizens cannot leave the country unless that are travelling for medical, educational or business reasons.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

Carry on as normal, make your bookings (refundable) apply for your CoE. 

Get your Covid test and fit to fly just before you travel back. 

Prep the necessary paper-work for re-entry to Thailand. 

I am not prepared to take that chance.

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As you have written, people are being asked to complete a declaration - thats it.

That's not it.  According to the Home Secretary, if your declaration states travel other than that currently permitted, you will be sent home - her words.

[Upnotover]

Just now, KhaoYai said:

That's not it.  According to the Home Secretary, if your declaration states travel other than that currently permitted, you will be sent home - her words.

...should be no problem then, you're going home.

[Forresttrump]

I sympathize with your plight I am a O-A multi entry visa holder but at this moment in time would be unable to prove an essential reason for travel.  My partner of 6 years lives in our condo in Bangkok, we are not married so I’m sure having a home, bank account and partner would still not count towards essential travel.

 

I believe  the UK government should be instructing embassies what is essential.  Tourism is not essential and visas and C.O.E’s should not be issued, although they seem to be readily available and many have travelled on them.  If a C.O.E is issued it should be accepted as a proof you meet essential reasons for travel by the border control and airlines.

[KhaoYai]

3 minutes ago, Forresttrump said:

 If a C.O.E is issued it should be accepted as a proof you meet essential reasons for travel by the border control and airlines.

The problem is that the UK's essential is not the same as the Thai embassy's - but don't forget that Tourist Visa applicants can now get a C.O.E.

 

Your post raises an important point though. Yesterday @steve187 suggested that I should apply for an O-A visa as my Non O is about to expire and I can only get a single 90 day Non O in the UK.  I'm not sure that travel for retirement reasons would be considered as 'essential' - given the information available so far, its not.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[ronaldo0]

13 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

I have a Thai driving licence and a bank account yes - thanks for the suggestions. However, I can only get a 3 month Non O from the Thai embassy in the UK, they stopped issuing 12 month multis when they went over to the E-Visa system.  I very much doubt I could convince anyone that I live in Thailand with one 90 day entry.

I got a single entry non o from uk embassy and am going home to Thailand to my Thai wife.  I have booked everything and got my COE and leave in 2 weeks on a one way flight direct with Thai airways .

[KhaoYai]

16 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

I got a single entry non o from uk embassy and am going home to Thailand to my Thai wife.  I have booked everything and got my COE and leave in 2 weeks on a one way flight direct with Thai airways .

I wish you the very best and hope you are not prevented from travelling under the new regulations.  However, I was planning on telling a 'white lie' - that I live in Thailand and am returning home, if I was asked. I would show my multi entry Non O as 'proof' but it expires soon.  I very much doubt that a single entry Non O would be accepted as proof of living in Thailand.

 

As things stand, if you are asked why you are travelling, you will not be allowed to fly.  You may well be lucky as this government s now famous for making rules that are subsequently not enforced. I wish you luck but I'm not prepared to take that chance. Let us know how you get on.

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, JustinCredible said:

You have my sympathy, but if your wife went to the UK she would NOT be allowed to leave there either. That would be an excellent reason for an extension to HER Visa.

I don't think the UK either can or will prevent non British citizens from leaving but I will stand corrected - can you provide a link to that regulation?

[richard_smith237]

 

 

It seems you are worrying about whether or not you have a legal reason to travel internationally and are concentration on the guidance of ‘Medical, Work and Education’ reasons, but that is too restrictive to be legally binding, and thus these statements are guidance not fixed regulation, as such have placed yourself in a legal limbo. 

 

IF you can prove Thailand is your home, then you can prove have a legal right to travel home. 

 

Thus, how can you prove Thailand is your home?

 

Me, it would be proof my Son is at School in Thailand, Driving Licence, Yellow Book, Pink ID and a long visa history. 

 

 

What would concern me more at this stage, is not whether or not the UK would let me leave, but whether or not Thailand will permit travel from the UK as many countries (currently 40 I think) have a travel ban on travellers (non nationals) arriving from the UK. 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

The UK government have stated that UK Citizens cannot leave the country unless that are travelling for medical, educational or business reasons.

 

If I’m not mistaken the wording is not specific to Education, Medical and Business... 

 

 

Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home. You must not travel, including abroad, unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. It is illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. 

 

 

Thus: Is travelling back home to Thailand considered a ‘leisure purpose’... 

 

If you are working in the UK and paying Tax in the UK, it may be difficult to prove that Thailand is your home. In reality it’s where you holiday for a few months per year (even half the year). 

 

 

[potless]

2 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

You should consider this, I have cancer. I am not going anywhere just yet but I do have a non-determined sell by date.  Every day I can spend with my wife is precious because neither of us know if I have 6 months or 6 years. 

Perhaps you could make a case for yourself on compassionate grounds ? Good luck anyway.

[ronaldo0]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If I’m not mistaken the wording is not specific to Education, Medical and Business... 

 

 

Under current UK COVID-19 restrictions, you must stay at home. You must not travel, including abroad, unless you have a legally permitted reason to do so. It is illegal to travel abroad for holidays and other leisure purposes. 

 

 

Thus: Is travelling back home to Thailand considered a ‘leisure purpose’... 

 

If you are working in the UK and paying Tax in the UK, it may be difficult to prove that Thailand is your home. In reality it’s where you holiday for a few months per year (even half the year). 

 

 

Several people have applied for various visas to go to Thailand to see families , holidays , business etc . I haven’t heard of one who was challenged upon check in as to what reason they had for going . The only thing the airport staff were interested in was they had insurance , passport , COE etc . There was to be a ban in place for the last few months stating business, medical , etc as reasons and as I say  have yet to hear of one person getting on a flight being challenged as to why they were going . 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Carry on as normal, make your bookings (refundable) apply for your CoE. 

Get your Covid test and fit to fly just before you travel back. 

Prep the necessary paper-work for re-entry to Thailand. 

I am not prepared to take that chance.

 

There are a lot of other chances that you have to deal with.

 

i.e. testing negative for Covid-19 and not being able to travel.

Then there the chance of a complete travel ban anyway.

There is the chance Thailand bans travel from the UK. 

There is a chance Thailand bans all international travel except for nationals (and those on Work Permits) again.

 

 

 

Don’t allow every hurdle become a psychologically insurmountable mountain - The declaration form (you mentioned earlier) maybe all it takes to be considered ‘legally permitted to travel’... 

 

Don’t dwell on something until you know for sure, all you can do is prepare and make sure you are covered for negative circumstances (i.e take out travel insurance that covers you for flights you may have to cancel etc).

 

 

[soi3eddie]

On 1/28/2021 at 12:15 PM, KhaoYai said:

travel to see family should be classed as essential.

 

Human rights laws - "Right to  a family life" apply in the UK. This is how many illiegal immigrants avoid being deported, except you want to leave the country but possibly will not be allowed to travel to be with your wife. The UK government has gone mad. What risk is it to the UK if you leave? OK, maybe do as Australia does and ensure that you're not intending to return anytime soon but you should be allowed out.

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by soi3eddie

[ronaldo0]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

I wish you the very best and hope you are not prevented from travelling under the new regulations.  However, I was planning on telling a 'white lie' - that I live in Thailand and am returning home, if I was asked. I would show my multi entry Non O as 'proof' but it expires soon.  I very much doubt that a single entry Non O would be accepted as proof of living in Thailand.

 

As things stand, if you are asked why you are travelling, you will not be allowed to fly.  You may well be lucky as this government s now famous for making rules that are subsequently not enforced. I wish you luck but I'm not prepared to take that chance. Let us know how you get on.

As I stated in another post people have been leaving for months going to places deemed essential only for work etc and I haven’t heard of any getting asked and refused boarding at the airport . If you book a one way flight it would help any questions that may arise and if asked about your visa tell them you use an agent in the country to apply for your one year as it makes things easier than you doing it yourself in the uk . The people in uk at check in won’t have the first idea of what visas are what really or what the application process is in Thailand . That’s the Thai immigrations job upon your arrival. Unless Thai airways officially deny me my seat or the Thai government suddenly don’t allow people from uk to enter then I don’t foresee any problems. Will let you know how it goes . 

[soi3eddie]

3 minutes ago, ronaldo0 said:

The people in uk at check in won’t have the first idea of what visas are what really or what the application process is in Thailand . That’s the Thai immigrations job upon your arrival.

 

All airlines have access to entry rules for each country around the world. You'll be safe with Thai Airways but some airlines are totally anal about checking that you'll be admitted to Thailand on the visa type and date of return. If no return or a long term stay, they can be a pain in the ass and you'll have to elevate it to convince them to allow you to board the flight - I had this a few years ago with a junior check-in agent of Asiana Airlines at Heathrow. Dumb AF. Generally so long as you are on a Non-Immigrant visa you should be OK.

 

[Alidiver]

Do you use a UK travel insurance, if so, it will be null and void. 

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

It seems you are worrying about whether or not you have a legal reason to travel internationally and are concentration on the guidance of ‘Medical, Work and Education’ reasons, but that is too restrictive to be legally binding, and thus these statements are guidance not fixed regulation, as such have placed yourself in a legal limbo. 

Yes, I know its too restrictive but that's how it is.  I have spoken to the police, border force, airlines etc. etc. - nobody can give me an answer and nobody is prepared to say that they will let me travel. I'm not prepared to shell out ££££'s on a maybe.  Other's may take the chance but its taken a lot of hard work to save enough to make the trip, I ain't going to lose it.

 

I'm waiting for a reply from the Home Office and I've e-mailed my MP and the shadow Home Secretary - hopefully someone will clarify the position soon.

 

The government's website did give the 3 reasons for exemption as Medical, Work that cannot be done from home and Education but that has now disappeared and is replaced by Legally Permitted - not that that changes anything because trying to find the legally permitted reasons is impossible.  Many non governmental websites have the original information but clarification needs to come from the government.

 

I think something's afoot though because I did hear a new report today that stated something about Priti Patel being asked to clarify the situation.

 

However, all of this will I think, become a waste of time.  Flights are already limited and if most current passengers are prevented from travelling, the airlines will cancel flights.  I haven't checked on repat flights recently but they may become the only option if people in my position are allowed to travel - but at double the normal cost.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

As I stated in another post people have been leaving for months going to places deemed essential only for work etc and I haven’t heard of any getting asked and refused boarding at the airport .

With respect, I know that. These changes were only announced on the 27th. Also, this is not about entry rules - this is about being allowed to leave. I won't have any problems proving my status to any airline - if what the Home Secretary said is correct, the police will be asking travellers to complete a declaration giving their reason for travel - not the airlines.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, ronaldo0 said:

Several people have applied for various visas to go to Thailand to see families , holidays , business etc . I haven’t heard of one who was challenged upon check in as to what reason they had for going .

Again, with respect ronaldo, I don't think you are fully understanding this. Applying for a visa to go to Thailand has nothing to do with the UK government. That is decided according to the laws of Thailand.  Thailand issues visas and Thailand can only challenge people entering Thailand. They cannot and do not challenge people leaving the UK.  Provided a traveller falls within the regulations for travel according to their intended length of stay, the airline will let them board.

 

This is the British government saying that they will only allow British citizens to leave the country for essential travel and at the moment they are giving those reasons as, Business, Medical and Educational. This has actually been the law for quite some time but it hasn't been enforced. The Home Secretary, Priti Patel quite clearly stated that the travel ban will now be strictly enforced and that people will have to prove they fit one of the reasons given as 'essential travel'. She said passengers will be asked to complete a travel declaration and they will be checked by the police.  If what she says is correct, it won't matter if you have COE, insurance, a visa or anything - if its enforced neither you nor I will be allowed to visit our wives.

 

That said, I don't think they will prevent British citizens who normally live abroad from leaving, there would be no point to that.  I was prepared to give it a go previously because I have a multi entry Non O and as the situation was quite lax, I would have simply shown that if I was challenged and claimed I was going to live in Thailand. My visa expires in March and I would simply have told them that I can get another in Thailand - they don't know that I can't.

 

Now, unless these newly enforced rules are clarified and I get something in writing that says visiting a wife abroad is classed as essential travel, I won't be taking the chance.

 

One thing I forgot about previously is that when questioned about this on TV, Boris Johnson said there would be absolutely no exceptions.  What I want to know is exceptions to what? What are the precise categories that are classed as 'Essential Travel'.

 

They don't put signs on the roads saying 'Please Don't Drive Too Fast' they tell you what the limit is.

[KhaoYai]

14 hours ago, Upnotover said:

Depends who's looking at the visa.  Plod won't have a clue what a non-O entitles you too and it is not stated on the visa that you get a 90 day entry. 

I must apologise, I didn't pick up on that before.  I've just checked my visa and you are correct, it just says 'multiple'.  That visa expires on 2 March, I guess that a new visa from London will just say 'single'. Having looked at my visa, I tend to agree that the UK police would not have any idea what it was.  I have to mull this over but I think it may be worth a try. 

 

As someone else suggested, I have a Thai driving licence and my bank book is with me. I think my Usufruct agreement is also here with me so I could probably make a convincing case.

Edited January 29, 2021 by KhaoYai

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

That is regarding Thai requirements - I am talking about the new rules introduced by the UK government in their announcement on 27 January.

Why make this statement?

"I very much doubt I could convince anyone that I live in Thailand with one 90 day entry."

 

Isn't the 90 days a Thai requirement? You are arguing against yourself, good luck with that.

[richard_smith237]

16 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

With respect, I know that. These changes were only announced on the 27th. Also, this is not about entry rules - this is about being allowed to leave. I won't have any problems proving my status to any airline - if what the Home Secretary said is correct, the police will be asking travellers to complete a declaration giving their reason for travel - not the airlines.

 

What do you actually think might happen ????? 

 

Are you concerned that while on the road to the airport the Police will arrest you?

 

Or, do think the Police will be on the doors at the airports, checking declarations and preventing people from checking in?

 

Or, will the airlines be collecting this ‘declaration’ ???

 

-----

 

While there have been announcements, there is nothing physically in place to stop you. I’m wondering if you are not over-interpreting the announcements and creating your own road block. 

 

 

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Or, do think the Police will be on the doors at the airports, checking declarations and preventing people from checking in?

 

That is exactly what Priti Patel said - that the police will be checking people at airports. When challenged by a reporter over the claim that Border Force had only checked on 3% of previous entrants to ensure they were in their place of home quarantine, she said that this rule would be strictly enforced. Boris Johnson added that there will be no exceptions. Should I ignore that then?

 

I'm not creating any road blocks at all - I actually support the fact that the government has made a start at closing the borders. I am simply trying to find out if visiting wives or family abroad will be considered essential travel. I am also seeking answer as to why, under these new rules, it appears that I can't visit my wife but my wife can visit me here.

 

However, to add to the confusion, there are unconfirmed reports in some newspapers that it will be the carriers that will carry out the checks and that the police will simply have an inreased presence at airports and may check more travellers. Also some reports appear to be suggesting that Priti Patel has given a somewhat watered down explanation of her televised statement.

 

This is just one of those - from the Daily Mirror.

 

She said people will have to declare their reason in advance to the airline or carrier they book with.

There will be more police at ports and airports - and people without a valid reason for travel will be sent home or fined for breaching lockdown.

But she did not give any detail on when the restriction will come into force, or give a full list of valid reasons.

She said airlines and carriers will now have liability for checking travellers - and will face fines themselves if they do not comply.

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-anyone-trying-leave-uk-23395732

 

God knows what to think.  I know that on Thursday and Friday, neither Etihad or Emirates had any knowledge of any checks.

 

However, from the beginning of this Pandemic, lack of detail and enforcement has been a feature of this government's policies.

Edited January 30, 2021 by KhaoYai

[KhaoYai]

21 hours ago, potless said:

Perhaps you could make a case for yourself on compassionate grounds ? Good luck anyway.

There will be people who are far more badly affected than me.  I know of one guy who isn't so well off so can't afford to visit in the current circumstances - he hasn't met his new baby yet.

 

I would never use my illness to try and gain an advantage but it does make things all the more important to me.