On 1/31/2021 at 11:50 AM, sanuk711 said:

I guess its still in the same place that the E.U. Spends --$. Billions importing from, they even import over $9 Billion from little old Kiwi in 2019........Of course all food from there heavily taxed for the citizens of the E.U. Put the Oz market in there as well.....its far from a drop in the ocean.

If your suggesting something silly --like its to far away--then just ask the USA where its biggest trading partner is situated.

 

New Zealand (Māori: Aotearoa) is an island country located in the south-western Pacific Ocean. For 2019, New Zealand annual goods exports to the EU were worth NZ$5.3 billion and services exports are worth NZ$3.7 billion...

 

 

There are still many people in the UK and on TVF who desperately wish and hope that the UK fails since it has left the EU.

 

OTOH there are many more people in the UK and on TVF who are happy that the UK has left the EU and welcome both old and new trading partners and are so glad that the UK is now free to make its own trading deals and its own way in the world.

 

Go for it Boris as there are more people supporting and backing you than are against you.

8 hours ago, vinny41 said:

No-one knows why each person voted the way they did, unless someone is going to spend the time and money asking each person why they voted.

 

You were the one who claimed that the reason people voted to leave was that they wanted to be out of the Single Market and the Customs Union. I was just suggesting that there might have been other reasons.

9 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Cameron told everyone 28 times a vote for leave is to leave the single market and the customs union

Cameron was part of project fear, what did the 'Leave' campaign promise?

8 hours ago, transam said:

So what do you think the reason most folk voted to leave is, cos I can't....????

 

Nor can I, but I'm sure it was not just to be out of the Single Market and/or Customs Union

1 hour ago, Stupooey said:

 

Nor can I, but I'm sure it was not just to be out of the Single Market and/or Customs Union

Just a guess: the Polish and Rumanian expats?

 

On 1/31/2021 at 1:45 PM, rooster59 said:

 

Since leaving the European Union, Britain has made clear its desire to join the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which removes most tariffs between Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.

 

 

 

Interesting what are they going to sell there...50 pounds haircuts?

49 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Cameron was part of project fear, what did the 'Leave' campaign promise?

Next you will be saying that leavers were forbidden from listening to the Prime Minister at the time

52 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

You were the one who claimed that the reason people voted to leave was that they wanted to be out of the Single Market and the Customs Union. I was just suggesting that there might have been other reasons.

I know why I voted Leave and I know that remainers would have preferred

1) No vote

2) if a vote then wanted to see on the ballot paper

A) remain in the EU

B) remain in the EU

23 minutes ago, billd766 said:

There are still many people in the UK and on TVF who desperately wish and hope that the UK fails since it has left the EU.

 

OTOH there are many more people in the UK and on TVF who are happy that the UK has left the EU and welcome both old and new trading partners and are so glad that the UK is now free to make its own trading deals and its own way in the world.

 

Go for it Boris as there are more people supporting and backing you than are against you.

 

I think you misunderstand - we don't want the UK to fail, we're just sad that it is now much more likely to happen. As I have said before, for every person who wants the UK to fail, there must be 10 who want the EU to fail so as to justify Brexit (if you don't believe me, just have a look at the relevant threads over the past few years).

Whether there has ever been a time when the majority of the UK supported Brexit is also very much in doubt. Sure, on a particular day in June 2016 more people who were able to vote supported leave, but by holding the Referendum on a Thursday many people in work (who voted for the most part to remain) were unable to vote, meaning that Brexit was effectively delivered by the retired and unemployed. Had the vote been held on Sunday 26th....

Finally to say that more people are backing Johnson than against him, the last figure I saw gave him a 34% approval rating in the UK. This may well rise now the UK has finally got its act together regarding Covid (unless the doubts over the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine for over 65s is borne out), but I can't see him lasting that much longer.

 

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Next you will be saying that leavers were forbidden from listening to the Prime Minister at the time

No, what I am saying is the people that voted leave did so based on what the Leave campaign promised and told them was the benefit of leaving the EU.

 

People that voted stay, more likely listened to the promises of the stay campaign. 

 

Cameron has / had no input on what was the goal of the leave campaign and what it entailed.  Cameron was on the stay side, so he should be held up as a standard on what he promised if the UK had voted to stay.  To use the rhetoric of the losing side as if it was what was promised if the leave campaign won -  is at the very best disingenuous. 

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

I think you misunderstand - we don't want the UK to fail, we're just sad that it is now much more likely to happen. As I have said before, for every person who wants the UK to fail, there must be 10 who want the EU to fail so as to justify Brexit (if you don't believe me, just have a look at the relevant threads over the past few years).

Sad to say there are some UK Brexiteers who do indeed appear to have this view.

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Whether there has ever been a time when the majority of the UK supported Brexit is also very much in doubt. Sure, on a particular day in June 2016 more people who were able to vote supported leave, but by holding the Referendum on a Thursday many people in work (who voted for the most part to remain) were unable to vote, meaning that Brexit was effectively delivered by the retired and unemployed. Had the vote been held on Sunday 26th....

Not true.  UK elections are allways (I think!) held on Thursdays.  Polling Stations open ealry enough, and stay open late enough, that those who work should be able to vote.  If not, they can apply for either postal or proxy vote.

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Finally to say that more people are backing Johnson than against him, the last figure I saw gave him a 34% approval rating in the

UK.

I doubt his rating wil rise much

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

This may well rise now the UK has finally got its act together regarding Covid (unless the doubts over the effectiveness of the AstraZeneca vaccine for over 65s is borne out), but I can't see him lasting that much longer.

 

Hasn't Germany now said they misread the data and it was to do with numbers of over 65s in the tests that lead to an erroneous statement?

 

Anyhow, there is a large swathe of Brits who want both UK and EU to thrive.  Many (like me) are inestimably sad that enough in the UK could be so dimwitted, shortsighted, xenophobic or have the wool so comprehensively pulled over their eyes that between them they took us out of the EU

 

PH

 

PH

4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

No, what I am saying is the people that voted leave did so based on what the Leave campaign promised and told them was the benefit of leaving the EU.

 

People that voted stay, more likely listened to the promises of the stay campaign. 

 

Cameron has / had no input on what was the goal of the leave campaign and what it entailed.  Cameron was on the stay side, so he should be held up as a standard on what he promised if the UK had voted to stay.  To use the rhetoric of the losing side as if it was what was promised if the leave campaign won -  is at the very best disingenuous. 

The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted to help explain the result – who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision

36% of Leavers always knew who they would vote

7% of Leavers decided how they  were going to vote more than a year ago

15% of Leavers decided at the begining of June 2016

19% of Leavers decided in the last month 6% in the last week,7% in the last few days,9% on Polling day

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

3 hours ago, baboon said:

I somehow don't think that Genesis would be overly worried about their ham sandwiches. However transporting a huge stage production and the associated crews might give them pause for thought.

Genesis? ????

 

I see very few benefits of Brexit for the EU but Genesis staying in the UK might just be one of them.

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I know why I voted Leave and I know that remainers would have preferred

1) No vote

2) if a vote then wanted to see on the ballot paper

A) remain in the EU

B) remain in the EU

I admit I for one would have preferred no referendum, as I believe they have no part in a Parliamentary Democracy ("A device of dictators and demagogues", as Margaret Thatcher memorably said). That we have only had three in 750-odd years must say something, they have only ever been used to solve intra-party disputes, and fortunately previous ones had a 2-1 majority so could be construed as being decisive (even if many who voted to leave the EEC in 1975 never accepted the decision, which was why the UK were never able to have the necessary influence). Had the 2015 electorate voted in a majority of Brexit supporting MPs (instead of 75% who were against) I would have had no objection lo leaving, but to have such an important decision, which would have a huge disruptive impact on everyone's lives, decided by a 50%+1 plebiscite seems totally wrong on every level.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted to help explain the result – who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision

36% of Leavers always knew who they would vote

7% of Leavers decided how they  were going to vote more than a year ago

15% of Leavers decided at the begining of June 2016

19% of Leavers decided in the last month 6% in the last week,7% in the last few days,9% on Polling day

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

And how does this have anything to do with what you were responding to.  The question going back to the earliest point in this back and forth was ... what did the leave campaign promise?  In  parliamentary elections (and referendum) you have different groups that make certain commitments on what they will be if they win... you vote for the side you believe will deliver on what you want.  It is the leave campaign that won and what it promised should be the basis of what was implemented... not Cameron ...

7 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

And how does this have anything to do with what you were responding to.  The question going back to the earliest point in this back and forth was ... what did the leave campaign promise?  In  parliamentary elections (and referendum) you have different groups that make certain commitments on what they will be if they win... you vote for the side you believe will deliver on what you want.  It is the leave campaign that won and what it promised should be the basis of what was implemented... not Cameron ...

Most people I know listened to Both sides and then made their own decision, as to promises or commitments they should be treated as aspirations, In a General election it is possible to delivered those aspirations in your party gains enough seats to take control and form a Government. With the EU referendum they were always aspirations as the power to grant those aspirations or not were subject to negotiations and agreement from the EU

16 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Meanwhile the EU starts sucking up to China. 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/talking-europe/20210129-eu-china-relations-human-rights-concerns-over-new-trade-agreement

 

Not exactly the moral high ground ????.

 

The UK can hardly take the moral high ground either!

 

UK sells arms to nearly 80% of countries under restrictions, says report

Quote

The UK has exported military hardware to 58 countries of the 73 listed as subject to restrictions by the Department for International Trade (DIT), including sniper rifles to Pakistan, assault rifles to Kenya and naval equipment to China.

 

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Cameron told everyone 28 times a vote for leave is to leave the single market and the customs union

 Indeed he did; and other's in the Remain campaign siad the same.

 

But Gove and other Vote.Leave campaigners denied it and called those, and other, warnings project fear!

 

As predicted; project fear is now the reality.

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Indeed he did; and other's in the Remain campaign siad the same.

 

But Gove and other Vote.Leave campaigners denied it and called those, and other, warnings project fear!

 

As predicted; project fear is now the reality.

 

 

Remind me again of the reasons for your antagonism towards the UK....................

4 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Indeed he did; and other's in the Remain campaign siad the same.

 

But Gove and other Vote.Leave campaigners denied it and called those, and other, warnings project fear!

 

As predicted; project fear is now the reality.

Key figures from both the Remain and Leave campaigns said before the referendum that voting to leave meant leaving the single market. The customs union itself was rarely mentioned before the referendum, as far as we’ve seen.

There are some cases where Leave campaigners appeared to suggest the UK could stay in the single market after a vote to leave, although these examples aren’t all necessarily as straightforward as they look. In any case, they are rare exceptions, rather than the rule.

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

3 hours ago, Stupooey said:

 

Nor can I, but I'm sure it was not just to be out of the Single Market and/or Customs Union

 

Since Vote.Leave assured us that leaving the EU would not mean leaving either, then at a guess I'd say that the prospect of leaving them was a not consideration for most Leave voters.

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Next you will be saying that leavers were forbidden from listening to the Prime Minister at the time

 Of course not; but Vote.Leave convinced many of them not to believe him.

 

Or are you saying that all leave voters ignored the promises of Gove and other Vote.Leave campaigners?

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The UK has voted to leave the European Union. On referendum day I surveyed 12,369 people after they had voted to help explain the result – who voted for which outcome, and what lay behind their decision

36% of Leavers always knew who they would vote

7% of Leavers decided how they  were going to vote more than a year ago

15% of Leavers decided at the begining of June 2016

19% of Leavers decided in the last month 6% in the last week,7% in the last few days,9% on Polling day

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

 

How many voted leave because Cameron told us leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union?

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 Of course not; but Vote.Leave convinced many of them not to believe him.

 

Or are you saying that all leave voters ignored the promises of Gove and other Vote.Leave campaigners?

as stated Most people I know listened to Both sides and then made their own decision

similar when people are young or teenagers listen to advice they get from their parents but they don't always follow that advice

6 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

How many voted leave because Cameron told us leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union?

I suspect no-one knows that answer likewise no-one knows how many people voted remain because  Cameron told us leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market and customs union?

20 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Key figures from both the Remain and Leave campaigns said before the referendum that voting to leave meant leaving the single market. The customs union itself was rarely mentioned before the referendum, as far as we’ve seen.

There are some cases where Leave campaigners appeared to suggest the UK could stay in the single market after a vote to leave, although these examples aren’t all necessarily as straightforward as they look. In any case, they are rare exceptions, rather than the rule.

https://fullfact.org/europe/what-was-promised-about-customs-union-referendum/

 

Does this mean you are withdrawing your earlier post in which you infer that we all knew, Leavers and Remainers, leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and single market because Cameron said so?

 

Apply this question to your last three posts as well.

 

 

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 

Does this mean you are withdrawing your earlier post in which you infer that we all knew, Leavers and Remainers, leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and single market because Cameron said so?

NO

3 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Does this mean you are withdrawing your earlier post in which you infer that we all knew, Leavers and Remainers, leaving the EU meant leaving the customs union and single market because Cameron said so?

 

Apply this question to your last three posts as well.

 

 

Cameron told everyone 28 times a vote for leave is to leave the single market and the customs union

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

NO

 

Then, not for the first time, you are contradicting yourself.

 

Either most voters knew it, or we didn't.

 

However much you are now trying to say so, they cannot both be true.

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Cameron told everyone 28 times a vote for leave is to leave the single market and the customs union

 But according to you, or rather your quote from Full Fact, this had little or no effect on the result!

 

You are contradicting yourself again; and that hole you're in is getting deeper and deeper. 

 

I'll leave you to keep digging.