UK To Thailand - Right Now? 2

[lpw997]

Please anyone that has been to Thailand recently from UK airport please inform me on how stringent the new measures of enforcement for "illegal travel".

Recently invested £7,000 into condo for which I wish to go to check over the work before final payment is handed over.

Should I apply to the COE for visa Exempt and take proof of ownership of my condo to the airport along with letter from my property manager whom arranged the work explaining I am coming to check over the works. WIll that surfice or am I likely to be refused.

I only require answer from people with real knowledge on this IE Have had to go through this process recently too.

[DrJack54]

 There are many threads about requirements to travel to Thailand.

Skip the condo deposit etc, wont help........concentrate on ,COE, covid tests, ASQ quarantine, Insurance, etc etc. You could travel visa exempt after meeting all the requirements.

Personally I would use someone qualified to check out the condo that is already in Thailand. I Realize not the easiest thing to find, just an alternative.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

 There are many threads about requirements to travel to Thailand.

Skip the condo deposit etc, wont help........concentrate on ,COE, covid tests, ASQ quarantine, Insurance, etc etc. You could travel visa exempt after meeting all the requirements.

Personally I would use someone qualified to check out the condo that is already in Thailand. I Realize not the easiest thing to find, just an alternative.

He is probably referring to this and not to the entry requirements of Thailand:

 

[BritTim]

Sorry to say, but this is one of those situations where you are unlikely to get clear advice from anyone. The latest announcement on strengthening of existing rules is very recent, probably no one has been travelling under exactly the same circumstances as yourself, and UK officials probably have quite a bit of leeway in deciding what constitute necessary business travel. Some officials may let you go with only brief questioning; others may decide that investment management looks just like an invented reason for your travel.

[edwardandtubs]

Further reasonable excuses

There are further reasonable excuses. For example, you may leave home to fulfil legal obligations, or to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property, for the purpose of picketing, or where it is reasonably necessary for voting in an election or referendum.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home#when-you-can-leave-home

declaration-form-for-international-travel(1).pdf

Edited March 12, 2021 by edwardandtubs

[daveAustin]

You should 'prove' you are not going to Thailand for a holiday. That is the crux of it: people gallivanting everywhere and returning with variants. Doubt that doing deals on property - should you visit on visa-exempt/return UK in short order - would cut it. However, if you were to prove you were exiting on an extended visa, for example, pretty sure there would not be an issue.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

However, if you were to prove you were exiting on an extended visa, for example, pretty sure there would not be an issue

Realize you cannot compare various countries, however Oz also has had restrictions on exiting Au for some time. The folk that have been successful in application to Gov to exit have been stating 3 months up period of travel. 

[edwardandtubs]

8 hours ago, daveAustin said:

You should 'prove' you are not going to Thailand for a holiday. That is the crux of it: people gallivanting everywhere and returning with variants. Doubt that doing deals on property - should you visit on visa-exempt/return UK in short order - would cut it. However, if you were to prove you were exiting on an extended visa, for example, pretty sure there would not be an issue.

What are your "doubts" based on? If you look at the UK government website it says quite clearly that property deals are a valid exception.

I don't think idle speculation based on your "doubts" is at all helpful for the OP.

Edited March 13, 2021 by edwardandtubs

[bradiston]

17 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

Further reasonable excuses

There are further reasonable excuses. For example, you may leave home to fulfil legal obligations, or to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property, for the purpose of picketing, or where it is reasonably necessary for voting in an election or referendum.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home#when-you-can-leave-home

declaration-form-for-international-travel(1).pdf 761.36 kB · 3 downloads

It's confusing to me because they seem to have a set of rules for domestic travel, with a lot of valid reasons, but a very narrow set of rules, with very few valid reasons, for international travel. The way I read it is, the exemption you refer to relating to property is not included under international exemption. But I'd seek clarification first, for sure.

[kimamey]

2 hours ago, edwardandtubs said:

What are your "doubts" based on? If you look at the UK government website it says quite clearly that property deals are a valid exception.

I don't think idle speculation based on your "doubts" is at all helpful for the OP.

I think that is meant to apply to properties in the UK so there is some doubt. If I had to guess I would say that the OP should be OK but I can understand their concern. 

I wrote to my MP regarding me returning as someone married to a Thai and he couldn't be sure himself. Fortunately I'm not necessarily planning to go just yet so things may become clearer but the OP obviously has less flexibility.

I hope they can sort things out

[edwardandtubs]

36 minutes ago, bradiston said:

It's confusing to me because they seem to have a set of rules for domestic travel, with a lot of valid reasons, but a very narrow set of rules, with very few valid reasons, for international travel. The way I read it is, the exemption you refer to relating to property is not included under international exemption. But I'd seek clarification first, for sure.

I don't think there's any ambiguity. It states very clearly here that buying and selling property is a permitted reason for international travel:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-declaration-form-for-international-travel#permitted-reasons-for-international-travel

[bradiston]

33 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

I don't think there's any ambiguity. It states very clearly here that buying and selling property is a permitted reason for international travel:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-declaration-form-for-international-travel#permitted-reasons-for-international-travel

But it doesn't say that at all. It says it's an acceptable reason for leaving home, but there's no mention of it being an acceptable reason for leaving the UK. It's not included on the application form for international travel.

If there is any doubt DO NOT LISTEN TO THAI VISA! Make enquiries at the foreign office or wherever. Surprised this even needs to be said.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by ubonjoe
Off topic meme removed

[edwardandtubs]

13 minutes ago, bradiston said:

But it doesn't say that at all. It says it's an acceptable reason for leaving home, but there's no mention of it being an acceptable reason for leaving the UK. It's not included on the application form for international travel.

If there is any doubt DO NOT LISTEN TO THAI VISA! Make enquiries at the foreign office or wherever. Surprised this even needs to be said.

Did you even read the link?

Permitted reasons for international travel

Listed below are legally permitted reasons to be outside of home including for international travel. See the full list of legally permitted reasons. There may be other types of evidence than the ones listed that are relevant to your situation.

 

Work

Essential travel for business or official work purposes where it is not reasonably possible to complete that work from home.

 

This includes but is not limited to essential work or returning overseas having completed essential work, in relation to critical national infrastructure including the national rail network, national security or diplomatic purposes, and elite sports competitions.

 

Recommended evidence: employer’s letter, professional ID card, confirmation from sports body or evidence of participation, diplomatic mission letter, etc.

 

Volunteering

Where it is not reasonably possible to volunteer from home.

 

Recommended evidence: letter from relevant organisation.

 

Education

For academic studies or professional qualifications where physical presence is required or where activities must be completed overseas. This includes international students returning home.

 

Recommended evidence: letter or proof of membership of an academic institution.

 

Medical or compassionate grounds

This includes:

 

to visit someone who is dying or critically ill

maternity services, or to be with someone who is giving birth, or with a baby receiving neonatal critical care

medical treatment or emergency which cannot be reasonably received in the UK or to accompany a person where necessary

to avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm (such as domestic abuse)

Recommended evidence: medical evidence describing the situation of the member of your household/close family member/a friend who is receiving treatment in hospital or whose condition is life-threatening, proof of scheduled treatment, death certificate, letter from social services, proof of hospital admission, proof of family relationship.

 

Weddings, funerals and related events

To attend a wedding of a family member, to attend a funeral or event related to death, to visit a burial ground or remembrance.

 

Recommended evidence: letter, invitation.

 

Other permitted reasons

There are further reasonable excuses, for example:

 

to fulfil legal obligations

to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property

travel in order to exercise custody rights recognised by a court decision

order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority

Recommended evidence: proof of contract, court decision and proof of place of residence, order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority, expiring residence permit, dismissal notice, etc.

Edited March 13, 2021 by edwardandtubs

[bradiston]

8 minutes ago, edwardandtubs said:

Did you even read the link?

Permitted reasons for international travel

Listed below are legally permitted reasons to be outside of home including for international travel. See the full list of legally permitted reasons. There may be other types of evidence than the ones listed that are relevant to your situation.

 

Work

Essential travel for business or official work purposes where it is not reasonably possible to complete that work from home.

 

This includes but is not limited to essential work or returning overseas having completed essential work, in relation to critical national infrastructure including the national rail network, national security or diplomatic purposes, and elite sports competitions.

 

Recommended evidence: employer’s letter, professional ID card, confirmation from sports body or evidence of participation, diplomatic mission letter, etc.

 

Volunteering

Where it is not reasonably possible to volunteer from home.

 

Recommended evidence: letter from relevant organisation.

 

Education

For academic studies or professional qualifications where physical presence is required or where activities must be completed overseas. This includes international students returning home.

 

Recommended evidence: letter or proof of membership of an academic institution.

 

Medical or compassionate grounds

This includes:

 

to visit someone who is dying or critically ill

maternity services, or to be with someone who is giving birth, or with a baby receiving neonatal critical care

medical treatment or emergency which cannot be reasonably received in the UK or to accompany a person where necessary

to avoid injury or illness or escape risk of harm (such as domestic abuse)

Recommended evidence: medical evidence describing the situation of the member of your household/close family member/a friend who is receiving treatment in hospital or whose condition is life-threatening, proof of scheduled treatment, death certificate, letter from social services, proof of hospital admission, proof of family relationship.

 

Weddings, funerals and related events

To attend a wedding of a family member, to attend a funeral or event related to death, to visit a burial ground or remembrance.

 

Recommended evidence: letter, invitation.

 

Other permitted reasons

There are further reasonable excuses, for example:

 

to fulfil legal obligations

to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property

travel in order to exercise custody rights recognised by a court decision

order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority

Recommended evidence: proof of contract, court decision and proof of place of residence, order to present oneself to a judicial or administrative authority, expiring residence permit, dismissal notice, etc.

Ok, my apologies. They do state reasons for leaving home and international travel. But I would still take steps to ensure my actual case was allowable. No fun in getting refused at check in.

[SeasiderUK]

I rang the Home Office about this a few weeks ago, they said send an email which I did. No reply.

any feedback from recent departures would be appreciated 

 

 

[edwardandtubs]

7 minutes ago, SeasiderUK said:

I rang the Home Office about this a few weeks ago, they said send an email which I did. No reply.

any feedback from recent departures would be appreciated 

 

 

The British government isn't the super-efficient, customer-focussed machine that some posters seem to think. They're not going to give people free personalised legal advice by phone or email.

The government website is absolutely clear that buying a residential property is a permitted reason for international travel and it also clearly states what documents are needed as evidence. Very few people will have actually done it recently though so I don't think you're going to get the cast iron reassurance you're after.

[KhaoYai]

This is a one time reply as I'm not prepared to enter into yet another argument on this subject. I can only give you my opinion. My reasons for travel are probably more 'essential' than yours as I have a wife and stepson in Thailand.

I have been trying to get concrete information from the UK government on exactly what the 'Legally Permitted' reasons for travel are since 29 January and I'm no further forward - they just refuse to give a clear reply.  All I have been pointed towards is the general information on travel that is clearly designed to control travel within the UK and told that the same applies to international travel. My MP told me I have to decide whether to take the risk or not - the government haven't even replied to him.  Given that there are a lot of people in the same situation, I find it incredible that those in power cannot give a clear answer on the matter.

I have spoken to the police at Manchester Airport who tell me they cannot say whether or not I would be allowed to travel should they stop me. They simply said they had no clear advice from the government (despite Johnson and Patel's statements) and it would be up to the officer, on the day.

If 14 day quarantine stays in place, for a number of reasons that would make the trip extremely expensive for me - 7 days I can probably cope with as I would take less time off and can probably get someone to cover my work.

Based on the replies I have received and the opinion of the police, my wife and I decided we cannot afford to take the risk, we have better things to spend our money on and will wait until quarantine is reduced and the UK travel ban ends.

[KhaoYai]

1 hour ago, edwardandtubs said:

The government website is absolutely clear that buying a residential property is a permitted reason for international travel and it also clearly states what documents are needed as evidence.

Can you provide a link to that please?

[bolt]

17 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Can you provide a link to that please?

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronavirus-covid-19-declaration-form-for-international-travel#permitted-reasons-for-international-travel

 

to fulfil legal obligations

to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property

travel in order to exercise custody rights recognised by a court decision

[KhaoYai]

49 minutes ago, bolt said:

to fulfil legal obligations

Thank you.  I can see now why I wasn't given this information before 'Published 5 March 2021'. It seems to have been updated since the last one I saw.

It also shows how ridiculous these rules are: I can go abroad to buy a house but not to visit my wife!

[JoshBe]

I'm in a similar situation as OP not knowing what the exact rules are for leaving the UK.

 

I'm (EU citizen) am planning with my Thai wife on leaving the UK permanently in May. Does anyone know if that will be accepted as a valid reason for travel or do we risk being turned away and fined at the airport?

[tribalfusion001]

The airlines check the form at check in and I doubt that they will refuse anyone. Anyone can leave the UK if you wish to do so, the form is just box ticking and I'll putting work on mine.

[daveAustin]

On 3/13/2021 at 7:41 AM, edwardandtubs said:

What are your "doubts" based on? If you look at the UK government website it says quite clearly that property deals are a valid exception.

I don't think idle speculation based on your "doubts" is at all helpful for the OP.

Ok, fair play, though I'd be checking personally beforehand with the authorities if one were doing a quick turnaround based on property deals.

On 3/13/2021 at 2:11 PM, JoshBe said:

I'm in a similar situation as OP not knowing what the exact rules are for leaving the UK.

I'm (EU citizen) am planning with my Thai wife on leaving the UK permanently in May. Does anyone know if that will be accepted as a valid reason for travel or do we risk being turned away and fined at the airport?

Leaving permanently or on extended visas is not an issue. There's also a good chance rules for overseas travel from UK will be relaxed in May.

[treetops]

On 3/13/2021 at 1:24 PM, KhaoYai said:

It also shows how ridiculous these rules are: I can go abroad to buy a house but not to visit my wife!

If visiting your wife you would select "compassionate reasons" on the paperwork.  Open to interpretation but probably OK.

[KhaoYai]

2 hours ago, treetops said:

If visiting your wife you would select "compassionate reasons" on the paperwork.  Open to interpretation but probably OK.

Not according to my MP.  Many have gone and I've yet to hear of anyone being turned back but the risk is too much for me.

As I said earlier, the police told me that it would depend on the officer, on the day - it will cost me £10k, I'm not taking a chance on that.

Edited March 15, 2021 by KhaoYai

[OswaldBastable]

15 minutes ago, KhaoYai said:

Not according to my MP.  Many have gone and I've yet to hear of anyone being turned back but the risk is too much for me.

As I said earlier, the police told me that it would depend on the officer, on the day - it will cost me £10k, I'm not taking a chance on that.

Why so  much? i arrived here last week from London, and it cost me around 3,000 pounds all  in. The hotel is a bit on the cheap side, but apart from that good enough.

Edited March 15, 2021 by OswaldBastable

[KhaoYai]

2 minutes ago, OswaldBastable said:

Why so  much? i arrived here last week from London, and it cost me around 3,000 pounds all  in. The hotel is a bit on the cheap side, but apart from that good enough.

Personal circumstances.  My normal visits are for 2 weeks and I can get someone to cover my work for me. The 2 weeks in quarantine + 2 weeks with my wife make it necessary for me to completely shut down and it takes a while to get going again when I return. Basically I lose the best part of 3 months income.

[Muzzique]

On 3/12/2021 at 12:16 PM, lpw997 said:

along with letter from my property manager whom arranged the work explaining I am coming to check over the works. WIll that surfice or am I likely to be refused.

You might be on shaky ground with the letter. This is not work as your condo is not a business unless your are renting it out. You have a property manager, that's his job to check it. He can send you pictures. You fail on both of the current UK work travel criteria. They are cracking down on these non critical trips and the penalties are pretty stiff. I would wait till the UK opens up then travel as you would more than likely be refused boarding with your current plan. 

My wife recently travelled to Sri Lanka and Ukraine from London to do some work for our properties and was really grilled. Fortunately we were selling one and needed to be on site to complete and close the contracts. It's possible to get out, but make sure you have your story straight so there is no ambiguity. 

..

Edited March 15, 2021 by Muzzique

[SeasiderUK]

55 minutes ago, OswaldBastable said:

Why so  much? i arrived here last week from London, and it cost me around 3,000 pounds all  in. The hotel is a bit on the cheap side, but apart from that good enough.

Did you get grilled at check-in?

[OswaldBastable]

7 minutes ago, SeasiderUK said:

Did you get grilled at check-in?

Nobody said anything at beyond "good morning Sir, have a nice flight",  I just handed them the papers my personal travel planner had procured for me. I'm a bit of an old duffer on paperwork, far easier to pay someone else to do it all for me.

Edited March 15, 2021 by OswaldBastable