Shooting erupts at Colorado supermarket, bloodied man shown in handcuffs

[Surelynot]

10 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Disarming law abiding citizens and preventing them from defending themselves is immoral and unjust. If you're so afraid of guns then move to Japan or some rural community.

OMG....can't believe I just read that........If you are scared of guns move to Japan ......I have been banned too many times from this forum to express what I really feel about this statement.

[Phoenix Rising]

8 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Disarming law abiding citizens and preventing them from defending themselves is immoral and unjust. If you're so afraid of guns then move to Japan or some rural community.

What about the immorality and injustice in having 1.67 mass shootings per day*?? Are you saying that the US is the only moral and just country in the world? Countries like Holland, New Zealand, Japan, Korea - are they "immoral and unjust" countries? If so, maybe it's time for the US to get a bit of that since in these countries the chances of being shot are minuscule compared to the US.

 

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2020

[Phoenix Rising]

29 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

You would have to ban all guns, confiscate all guns, stop and frisk all people at all times, seal the border 100% and pass a law that says life in prison if you're caught with a gun. People don't seem to understand what would be involved and why it's not feasible.

All good ideas, let's start by doing that!

[Phoenix Rising]

19 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Disarming law abiding citizens and preventing them from defending themselves is immoral and unjust. If you're so afraid of guns then move to Japan or some rural community.

If you're so afraid of not owning a gun then maybe it's you who should move to Japan to experience a peaceful gun free society.

[NanLaew]

23 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

 

Officer Talley was probably carrying a 9mm handgun. When facing a killer with an AR-15, that's like Amir Faisal raising his sword while riding horseback as the Turkish biplanes bombed and shot up the Bedu encampment in Lawrence of Arabia.

 

God!... that brings back memories of when I started work for Saudi Aramco.

 

Thanks!

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

If you're so afraid of not owning a gun then maybe it's you who should move to Japan to experience a peaceful gun free society.

Back of the net.

[ctxa]

3 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Will they (Americans) ever learn? The right to bear arms is more deadly that Covid 19! Will they (Americans) ever get over the cowboy mentality? Damn it! Wherrrrre's ma gurn? ????

 

Take Switzerland, Finland, Spain as examples... not as many guns as in the US, but definitely a lot of them! 

 

I come from Spain, and I remember in college years having a gun (illegal one, ofc) stored on the spare tire in the trunk of my car, and so did most of my classmates. (Mind you that having the gun was more of thinking of yourself as a badass than anything else. Mainly because even though I had the gun, I didn't have bullets ????)

 

Anyhow, the point is. In many European countries there are many guns, both legal and illegal. Some European countries are fairly close to the US in terms of guns per 100 people. Yet these mass shootings and shootings are gun murders whatever, very very rarely happen. Is it a guns problem? Or is it a education/mentality problem that exists in America? I tend to believe it's the second.

 

[Surelynot]

Violent gun-related deaths (2016)

 

Thailand: 4.45 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants the...... US, 3.85 per 100,000

 

Yikes.

[NanLaew]

6 minutes ago, ctxa said:

 

Take Switzerland, Finland, Spain as examples... not as many guns as in the US, but definitely a lot of them! 

 

I come from Spain, and I remember in college years having a gun (illegal one, ofc) stored on the spare tire in the trunk of my car, and so did most of my classmates. (Mind you that having the gun was more of thinking of yourself as a badass than anything else. Mainly because even though I had the gun, I didn't have bullets ????)

 

Anyhow, the point is. In many European countries there are many guns, both legal and illegal. Some European countries are fairly close to the US in terms of guns per 100 people. Yet these mass shootings and shootings are gun murders whatever, very very rarely happen. Is it a guns problem? Or is it a education/mentality problem that exists in America? I tend to believe it's the second.

 

 

America first!

 

1 minute ago, Surelynot said:

Violent gun-related deaths (2016)

 

Thailand: 4.45 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants the...... US, 3.85 per 100,000

 

Yikes.

 

Oh, wait...

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, ctxa said:

 

Take Switzerland, Finland, Spain as examples... not as many guns as in the US, but definitely a lot of them! 

 

I come from Spain, and I remember in college years having a gun (illegal one, ofc) stored on the spare tire in the trunk of my car, and so did most of my classmates. (Mind you that having the gun was more of thinking of yourself as a badass than anything else. Mainly because even though I had the gun, I didn't have bullets ????)

 

Anyhow, the point is. In many European countries there are many guns, both legal and illegal. Some European countries are fairly close to the US in terms of guns per 100 people. Yet these mass shootings and shootings are gun murders whatever, very very rarely happen. Is it a guns problem? Or is it a education/mentality problem that exists in America? I tend to believe it's the second.

 

I think you have a math problem:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

[Eric Loh]

Just hope that this shooting in Colorado will change the views of gun-rights activist and gun packing US Representative Lauren Boebert. In fact hope it will change the views of gun loving Republican Party. Wishful thinking? 

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Just hope that this shooting in Colorado will change the views of gun-rights activist and gun packing US Representative Lauren Boebert. In fact hope it will change the views of gun loving Republican Party. Wishful thinking? 

Not a snowball's chance in hell........Boebart is already mouthing off on Twitter.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Violent gun-related deaths (2016)

 

Thailand: 4.45 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants the...... US, 3.85 per 100,000

 

Yikes.

Yikes indeed, the actual US gun death rate is 11.9 per 100,000.

 

Perhaps your 3.85/100,000 is that of children/teens killed by guns:

 

http://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Gun-Violence-in-America_An-Analysis-of-2018-CDC-Data_February-2020.pdf

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think you have a math problem:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

I don't think so no. I used this chart by the Washington Post (mind you the numbers differ slightly from Wikipedia):

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/gun-homicides-ownership/table/

 

USA - 88.8 guns per 100 people & 3.2 Homicides By Gun per 100 people 

Switzerland - 45.7 guns per 100 people & 0.77 Homicides By Gun per 100 people 

Finland - 45.3 guns per 100 people & 0.45 Homicides by Gun per 100 people 

Spain - 10.4 guns per 100 people & 0.2 Homicides by Gun per 100 people

 

See, Switzerland, Finland speaking in percentage ofc have half as much guns as the USA does, but the homicides by gun are a less than a fourth of those in the US (in the case of Finland it's an eighth of those in the USA) . You can clearly see that the number of guns and the number of homicides by gun is not proportional.

 

Then what on earth affects the number of homicides by gun? Is it the number of guns? Don't think so, probably education / mentality among other society factors. 

 

So.... where is my math problem?

 

Edited March 23, 2021 by ctxa

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yikes indeed, the actual US gun death rate is 11.9 per 100,000.

 

Perhaps your 3.85/100,000 is that of children/teens killed by guns:

 

http://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Gun-Violence-in-America_An-Analysis-of-2018-CDC-Data_February-2020.pdf

Ha....just looked again.....got USA at 12.21 and Thailand not even listed??

 

Much "happier" with your figures though (for Thailand) .......

[Surelynot]

15 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yikes indeed, the actual US gun death rate is 11.9 per 100,000.

 

Perhaps your 3.85/100,000 is that of children/teens killed by guns:

 

http://efsgv.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Gun-Violence-in-America_An-Analysis-of-2018-CDC-Data_February-2020.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Thailand

 

In 2016 Thailand's rate of violent gun-related deaths stood at 4.45 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. In comparison, that of the Philippines was 7.42; the US, 3.85; Cambodia, 0.96; Myanmar, 0.56; Malaysia, 0.46; Indonesia, 0.10; and Singapore, 0.03.[56]

 

Very odd the difference........old data? Just goes to show you need many sources.....verifiable in someway?

Edited March 23, 2021 by Surelynot

[Berkshire]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Just hope that this shooting in Colorado will change the views of gun-rights activist and gun packing US Representative Lauren Boebert. In fact hope it will change the views of gun loving Republican Party. Wishful thinking? 

Seriously?  Come on.  After Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, etc., etc., no one changed their minds.  Gun enthusiasts don't think the same as everyone else.  After a mass shooting....

 

Normal people:  "Oh no, dead people!"

Gun owners:  "Oh no, they'll want to take our guns!"

 

As for Boebert, 5555

 

[Boebert is a native of Rifle, Colorado and the owner of Shooters Grill, a gun-themed restaurant. She drew scrutiny in recent months after stating a desire to carry a firearm on the House floor. In February, police confirmed that she was granted a concealed carry permit in Washington D.C.]

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-react-to-boulder-active-shooter-situation

 

[Eric Loh]

12 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Seriously?  Come on.  After Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, etc., etc., no one changed their minds.  Gun enthusiasts don't think the same as everyone else.  After a mass shooting....

 

Normal people:  "Oh no, dead people!"

Gun owners:  "Oh no, they'll want to take our guns!"

 

As for Boebert, 5555

 

[Boebert is a native of Rifle, Colorado and the owner of Shooters Grill, a gun-themed restaurant. She drew scrutiny in recent months after stating a desire to carry a firearm on the House floor. In February, police confirmed that she was granted a concealed carry permit in Washington D.C.]

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/lawmakers-react-to-boulder-active-shooter-situation

 

 

I am afraid you are right. GOPs will not change their 2nd amendement minds but sure did their best to deflect like falsely claiming ISIS behind the Las Vegas shooting and Majorie Green's claim that Sandy Hook was staged. Will see how Boebert will deflect this shooting to serve her gun toting agenda. 

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Will see how Boebert will deflect this shooting to serve her gun toting agenda. 

Police should be armed with AK-47's?

[Walker88]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Solution.....arm officers with small bazookas may be? Where on earth does it end....oh! it doesn't....this scene will be repeated ad infinitum in the US.

Obviously there are two sides to this equation. You facetiously mentioned giving the police bazookas. The other alternative is to get rid of semi-auto rifles that typically hold 30-rd mags of ammo, where a killer can fire off 100 rounds in 2-3 minutes. Many of these killers wear a chest rig carrying 5-6 extra magazines.

 

The killer in Las Vegas had at least 12 AR-15s, so he could switch guns when the barrels got too hot and ruined accuracy or might have caused a malfunction.

 

If I go to a gun show in the US with plenty of cash or credit, I can buy 50, 100, however many AR-15s I want, plus thousands of rounds of ammo, and all it takes is a two-minute background check and filling out a form.

 

The forms get sent to a collection facility in West Virginia where they are stored in boxes. The info is never entered into any computer system, as that would 'infringe on a Constitutional right'.

 

I can also buy something called an "80% Lower" along with a computer-driven home milling machine, and make my own AR-15 without any need whatsoever for a background check. An "80% Lower" refers to the receiver of the weapon, which according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is 'the gun'. Somehow and somewhere it was determined that if the receiver was only 80% finished (however one defines 80% finished), it doesn't qualify as a 'gun' and thus requires no background check. One only need do the finish work oneself, which is easy with a home milling machine. Then one buys the trigger, upper receiver, bolt assembly, charger handle, barrel, stock, sights, etc.,---none of which require any check and can be ordered online, and build an AR-15 as effective as any one can buy off the shelf. Totally, 100% legal and unregulated.

 

Some States limit the size of the magazine to 10 rounds, but many States have no limits and one can even buy a 100 round magazine. At gun shows, besides there being hundreds or thousands of AR-15s for sale, there are buckets full of 30-round mags that sell for about $10. People wheel in dollies that they load up with cases upon cases of ammo. For someone not from the US, it is quite a sight to behold.

 

The genie is long since out of the bottle in the US. Where the line is drawn as to what can be owned and what cannot, is perhaps oddly placed on the bad side of semi-auto rifles. Maybe I cannot own an A-10 Warthog with a GAU-8 nose cannon that fires depleted uranium bullets that, if they hit a car engine, make it heat up so much from the absorbed energy that it melts, nor can Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk build their own carrier group outfitted with F-18s, but I can buy 10,000 AR-15s or a 50-cal sniper rifle which---if I'm skilled---I can put a round on a target from 2000 yards that has more hitting power than a Dirty Harry 44 Magnum fired point blank.

 

"Ask yourself...are you feeling lucky?"

Edited March 23, 2021 by Walker88

[Jeffr2]

On 3/23/2021 at 10:23 AM, Surelynot said:

There is simply no way out of these nightmare shootings......like it or not guns are there to stay in the US.......and there will always be enough crazies to use them.........it is or has become a way of life (or death).

One easy thing to do.  Ban donations by the NRA to politicians.  Or, at least limit them.  Trump got millions from them, as do GOP politicians every year. 

 

Dry up the money and things will change.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-lawmakers-receive-the-most-campaign-money-from-gun-rights-backers-like-the-nra-2019-08-05

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by onthedarkside
graphic removed

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Obviously there are two sides to this equation. You facetiously mentioned giving the police bazookas. The other alternative is to get rid of semi-auto rifles that typically hold 30-rd mags of ammo, where a killer can fire off 100 rounds in 2-3 minutes. Many of these killers wear a chest rig carrying 5-6 extra magazines.

 

The killer in Las Vegas had at least 12 AR-15s, so he could switch guns when the barrels got too hot and ruined accuracy or might have caused a malfunction.

 

If I go to a gun show in the US with plenty of cash or credit, I can buy 50, 100, however many AR-15s I want, plus thousands of rounds of ammo, and all it takes is a two-minute background check and filling out a form.

 

The forms get sent to a collection facility in West Virginia where they are stored in boxes. The info is never entered into any computer system, as that would 'infringe on a Constitutional right'.

 

I can also buy something called an "80% Lower" along with a computer-driven home milling machine, and make my own AR-15 without any need whatsoever for a background check. An "80% Lower" refers to the receiver of the weapon, which according to the Bureau of Alcohol and Firearms is 'the gun'. Somehow and somewhere it was determined that if the receiver was only 80% finished (however one defines 80% finished), it doesn't qualify as a 'gun' and thus requires no background check. One only need do the finish work oneself, which is easy with a home milling machine. Then one buys the trigger, upper receiver, bolt assembly, charger handle, barrel, stock, sights, etc.,---none of which require any check and can be ordered online, and build an AR-15 as effective as any one can buy off the shelf. Totally, 100% legal and unregulated.

 

Some States limit the size of the magazine to 10 rounds, but many States have no limits and one can even buy a 100 round magazine. At gun shows, besides there being hundreds or thousands of AR-15s for sale, there are buckets full of 30-round mags that sell for about $10. People wheel in dollies that they load up with cases upon cases of ammo. For someone not from the US, it is quite a sight to behold.

 

The genie is long since out of the bottle in the US. Where the line is drawn as to what can be owned and what cannot, is perhaps oddly placed on the bad side of semi-auto rifles. Maybe I cannot own an A-10 Warthog with a GAU-8 nose cannon that fires depleted uranium bullets that, if they hit a car engine, make it heat up so much from the absorbed energy that it melts, nor can Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk build their own carrier group outfitted with F-18s, but I can buy 10,000 AR-15s or a 50-cal sniper rifle which---if I'm skilled---I can put a round on a target from 2000 yards that has more hitting power than a Dirty Harry 44 Magnum fired point blank.

 

"Ask yourself...are you feeling lucky?"

Not now........if Japan were not so expensive I would definitely move there.

[Surelynot]

On 3/23/2021 at 12:27 PM, Jeffr2 said:

One easy thing to do.  Ban donations by the NRA to politicians.  Or, at least limit them.  Trump got millions from them, as do GOP politicians every year. 

 

Dry up the money and things will change.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-lawmakers-receive-the-most-campaign-money-from-gun-rights-backers-like-the-nra-2019-08-05

 

How is that even allowed.........???

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://fortune.com/2019/08/21/how-much-did-nra-contribute-trump-campaign/

NRA’s 2016 Donation to Trump’s Campaign Pays Off

In 2016, the NRA spent more than $30 million on behalf of the Trump campaign, according to Federal Election Commission data. It was a staggering number compared to 2012, when the group spent about $13 million to try to unseat President Barack Obama and elect Mitt Romney. The Trump campaign represented the lion's share of the group's spending—the NRA spent $54 million on the 2016 elections in total. 

Sick

[Jeffr2]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How is that even allowed.........???

Dirty politics by the GOP.

[Walker88]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

How is that even allowed.........???

There are some odd rules regarding 401c entities and how they can contribute as well as who the contributor actually is.

 

As was noted in reports surrounding the 2016 election, some of the NRA funding came from Russian entities, and the NRA subsequently passed it to favored and captured politicians. Obviously Russia is not a proponent of gun rights, as they do not allow such private ownership in Russia, but they do know more guns and gun supporters in the US means more heinous slaughter and more ideological division.

 

The NRA may well be bankrupt now because of the malfeasance of senior officials who used funds purely for personal gain, but other entities will form to continue to lobby for '2nd Amendment rights'.

[spiekerjozef]

Do you want the world to feel sorry if you know already what the problem is ? Why that media attention?

Just waiting for the next one...

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

 

You would have to ban all guns, confiscate all guns, stop and frisk all people at all times, seal the border 100% and pass a law that says life in prison if you're caught with a gun. People don't seem to understand what would be involved and why it's not feasible.

Easier to let them keep killing each other!

[Jeffr2]

Just now, PatOngo said:

Easier to let them keep killing each other!

Sadly, you're talking about the deaths of family members, relatives, friends, etc, by mentally disturbed people who shouldn't be allowed to have weapons.  Why are they allowed?  Members of the GOP.  Due to the money they get from the NRA.  Sucks.  A majority of Americans are all for stricter gun control laws.

[Roadman]

5 hours ago, pseudorabies said:

Two mass shootings in as many weeks.

 

After a year of dealing with COVID it looks like things are finally returning to normal in the US

You are actually quite wrong. You are only getting the ones where lots die on world news. The actual stats are there has been 7 mass shootings in the US in the last 7 days as per this item.

https://edition.cnn.com/us/live-news/colorado-king-soopers-shooting/h_16ea3dc5703c2f9463cf7a7b5046c9ff

The country is a nuthouse.