Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[DrJoy]

6 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I didn't think so. ???? These are multiple-choice questions, I remember one of them:

 

What is the capital of Thailand?

1.) Chiang Mai

2.) Bangkok

3.) Ayutthaya

 

If not married to a Thai, you have to sing Thai National Anthem, Royal Anthem from memory, in a clear precise tone.

It may not be everyone's cup of tea.

 

There are reports that one individual was not able to sing in a clear tone, he did not pass that day and was told to be there in the next MOI interview.

[XGM]

2 hours ago, DrJoy said:

If not married to a Thai, you have to sing Thai National Anthem, Royal Anthem from memory, in a clear precise tone.

I am married to a Thai, but since I am not registered in any Tabien baan I want to explore any other possibilities to gain more points. I speak Thai on a daily basis for many years but my vocabulary is rather limited to the topics I normally discuss. I don't know how to evaluate my level. It is way higher than what the average expat can produce but that's not really a very high standard to compare oneself to. As for reading, I can read short and simple texts when I am familiar with the vocabulary (knowing the context helps a lot as well). Absolute zero in writing.

I don't know the anthems but I assume that shouldn't be terribly hard to learn with some help.

Edited July 19, 2023 by XGM

[Arkady]

11 minutes ago, XGM said:

I am married to a Thai, but since I am not registered in any Tabien baan I want to explore any other possibilities to gain more points. I speak Thai on a daily basis for many years but my vocabulary is rather limited to the topics I normally discuss. I don't know how to evaluate my level. It is way higher than what the average expat can produce but that's not really a very high standard to compare oneself to. As for reading, I can read short and simple texts when I am familiar with the vocabulary (knowing the context helps a lot as well). Absolute zero in writing.

I don't know the anthems but I assume that shouldn't be terribly hard to learn with some help.

SB is usually reluctant to let applicants sing, if they don't have to.  Most renditions of the songs must be fairly painful. But singing to SB is a breeze, if you know the songs and, if you need to points or just want the challenge, I would go ahead. Singing at the MOI for those who have to do it is another manner. You get to sing unaccompanied into a microphone in front of 30 or so senior civil servants which is nerve wracking for most.  When I was interviewed at the MOI I was scheduled near the end and things were moving slowly in the queue.  One the ladies in the office where we were waiting came back from sitting in on the interviews and reported that a Chinese couple who were applying together and could hardly speak Thai had both been made to repeat the songs several times.  (I also knew someone personally who had to repeat the songs a couple of times). I asked her what happens if they can still can't sing well enough after a couple of repeats and she said they would be invited to interview again at a later date after working on their singing. I imagine that after being made to repeat the songs you would not perform very well in the rest of the interview.

 

For conversing with SB officers and doing the reading test, I would recommend that you make a list of vocabulary that comes up in the Nationality Act and the Life in  Thailand test and learn it.  Words like nationality, minister, Special Branch, Royal Gazette, minister's discretion can all come up, as can words to do with the Royal Family. A useful exercise is to read the Nationality Act in Thai with a translation at hand to note down all the key words. Since this vocab is repeated over and over in the text, it will eventually sink in as you read. For the writing test I was asked to write out the full name and address of the SB section that handles nationality applications which I knew because I had just got the bank to redo my bank statement officially addressed to them.

[XGM]

28 minutes ago, Arkady said:

A useful exercise is to read the Nationality Act in Thai with a translation at hand to note down all the key words. Since this vocab is repeated over and over in the text, it will eventually sink in as you read.

Great practical advice, thank you.

[desertsky]

I was given these 3 sets of questions to practice. Scored 10/10. 

[khongaeng]

I'm married to a Thai and SB asked me to sing in order to make sure that I got all of the language fluency points.  Apparently they won't make you sing if you are comfortably over the limit of 50 points.  I guess I was just at the cut off point.  I was not asked to sing at the MOI interview.  

 

If you are not yet on a Thabian Bahn then you can't even apply.  Supposedly you are supposed to get 5 points if you are on a house registration for 5 years, but they did not give me those points even though I was on a yellow book for 5 years.  You do not need to be registered for a minimum amount of time (if you are married to a Thai). I think the points in the residency section are geared towards Permanent Residents.  In the end, it doesn't really matter so long as you make the cutoff.  If SB asks you to pay the 5000 baht to lodge your application, it means that you have the minimum required points (they won't take your application fee unless you make the cut).

[lomtalay]

10 hours ago, desertsky said:

I was given these 3 sets of questions to practice. Scored 10/10. 

Hmmm...doesn't seem fair that these are in circulation/being given "to practice". During my interview/test I was just asked to choose 1, 2 or 3 - I chose 1 (exactly the same as above) and scored 9/10 (to my surprise - thought I'd get more wrong).

[lomtalay]

On 7/10/2023 at 7:02 PM, DrJoy said:

Dont cancel WP, your application can get stalled for good, not worth the risk.

Thanks for this information. If I retire before my MOI interview, does it significantly affect my chances of gaining citizenship? What about after the MOI interview but before the documents are issued? It's going to be close to the wire for me...

[onthemoon]

19 hours ago, XGM said:

I don't know the anthems but I assume that shouldn't be terribly hard to learn with some help.

It was terribly hard for me, but everybody is different. I now sing them to myself every couple of days to keep them in memory, waiting for the big day.

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, lomtalay said:

Thanks for this information. If I retire before my MOI interview, does it significantly affect my chances of gaining citizenship? What about after the MOI interview but before the documents are issued? It's going to be close to the wire for me...

If you retire before your interview, you can probably wing it and just pretend to be still working. But you the run the risk of being asked for your documents including WP when you show up for the interview or before.  Apparently they have not been asking for documents recently but things can change.  After the interview the risk diminishes significantly.

[Arkady]

11 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

It was terribly hard for me, but everybody is different. I now sing them to myself every couple of days to keep them in memory, waiting for the big day.

These songs are not easy for a non-singer, particularly the Royal Anthem.  For that one the trick is to start near the very bottom of your vocal range as the song has a very broad range and, if you start too high, you will be screeching the high notes or will be forced to drop an octave which sounds horrible.  I can read drum music. So I found it easier to learn the rhythm of the melodies and can see where it goes up and down.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, lomtalay said:

Thanks for this information. If I retire before my MOI interview, does it significantly affect my chances of gaining citizenship? What about after the MOI interview but before the documents are issued? It's going to be close to the wire for me...

I never had a WP for the later stages of the process. Very stressful but worked out OK. I was not asked for it after the NIA interview, one month after my application.

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, lomtalay said:

Hmmm...doesn't seem fair that these are in circulation/being given "to practice". During my interview/test I was just asked to choose 1, 2 or 3 - I chose 1 (exactly the same as above) and scored 9/10 (to my surprise - thought I'd get more wrong).

This test is not serious. If you have a good relationship with your SB officer, he/she will help you if you have problems. 

[qualtrough]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

This test is not serious. If you have a good relationship with your SB officer, he/she will help you if you have problems. 

Agree 100%. If it was like tests in the UK and other countries it would be tough, and not just because of any language issue. You really have to have a good knowledge of the country and its history and governance. If they wanted to cut down on the number of people qualifying all they would have to do is toughen up this test. Not suggesting that.

[DrJoy]

6 hours ago, lomtalay said:

If I retire before my MOI interview, does it significantly affect my chances of gaining citizenship?

As arkady said, it will be risky.

 

However, if you really cant keep your job or get fired etc, you may want  to start your own small business and get a WP.

 

If you see the nationality act,  it clearly mentions that the candidate must have an occupation.

 

That being said, nothing is written in stone but on this forum all of us will agree that you must maintain WP thru out  the processing period

 

Hope this helps

[lomtalay]

3 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

As arkady said, it will be risky.

 

However, if you really cant keep your job or get fired etc, you may want  to start your own small business and get a WP.

 

If you see the nationality act,  it clearly mentions that the candidate must have an occupation.

 

That being said, nothing is written in stone but on this forum all of us will agree that you must maintain WP thru out  the processing period

 

Hope this helps

It certainly does. Very helpful, as always!

[DrJoy]

On 7/19/2023 at 3:50 PM, XGM said:

but since I am not registered in any Tabien baan I want to explore any other possibilities to gain more points.

Its mandatory to be in a Bangkok Tabien Baan otherwise the Special Branch Police will simply not take your application.

 

If married to a Thai you are not required to sing.

 

You cannot choose your points or requirements, Minimum 50 points are required to qualify.

 

Speaking Thai gives you 8 points

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, DrJoy said:

As arkady said, it will be risky.

 

However, if you really cant keep your job or get fired etc, you may want  to start your own small business and get a WP.

 

If you see the nationality act,  it clearly mentions that the candidate must have an occupation.

 

That being said, nothing is written in stone but on this forum all of us will agree that you must maintain WP thru out  the processing period

 

Hope this helps

That was exactly the advice SB gave me when I wasn't sure I would remain in employment throughout, i.e. start own business to get a WP.  However, quite a few people have stopped working at some point during the process and got through.  Most advisable is of course to have a WP at least up until the MOI interview. It's very rare to have docs checked after that.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, DrJoy said:

Its mandatory to be in a Bangkok Tabien Baan otherwise the Special Branch Police will simply not take your application.

 

If married to a Thai you are not required to sing.

 

You cannot choose your points or requirements, Minimum 50 points are required to qualify.

 

Speaking Thai gives you 8 points

Things may have changed but when I did it, it was possible for married applicants to sing for points, if they insisted hard.  In fact the way the points are structured, it seems that you have to be a successful singer, if you want to get points for reading and/or writing. Although my application category was later changed to PR, when I first applied I was classified as married. Not boasting but I insisted on doing all the Thai language tests and got 15 points for them, not that I needed the points, as I was in the low 90s.

Thai Language Ability:

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai – 8 points

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai and sing the National and Royal Anthems  – 10 points

 

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read Thai  – 13 points

 

Able to speak and understand spoken Thai, sing the National and Royal Anthems, and read and write Thai  – 15 points

 

[Arkady]

8 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I never had a WP for the later stages of the process. Very stressful but worked out OK. I was not asked for it after the NIA interview, one month after my application.

Must have been extremely stressful, especially when going for the MOI interview. I was stressed out enough at the thought of the jv I was working in collapsing due to classic differences of opinion between the Thai and US partners. It did in the end but a few months after I got my ID card. I was summoned to the MOI before my interview and told to bring WP and old WP.  This was because I had changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period and SB had stupidly refused to include the copy of the old WP I gave them in the file. They checked both WPs for breaks and told me it was good there were no breaks because they would have had to axe my application, if they had found any.  Hopefully SB no longer makes this obvious mistake.

[Neeranam]

11 hours ago, Arkady said:

Must have been extremely stressful, especially when going for the MOI interview. I was stressed out enough at the thought of the jv I was working in collapsing due to classic differences of opinion between the Thai and US partners. It did in the end but a few months after I got my ID card. I was summoned to the MOI before my interview and told to bring WP and old WP.  This was because I had changed jobs during the 3 year qualifying period and SB had stupidly refused to include the copy of the old WP I gave them in the file. They checked both WPs for breaks and told me it was good there were no breaks because they would have had to axe my application, if they had found any.  Hopefully SB no longer makes this obvious mistake.

I was fired 5 months before MOI but begged for 6 months more and they complied. So, I never lied at the MOI, but wasn't asked to show WP. Sod's law. 

I hated that job, they even told me my salary would decrease if I became Thai. 

 

 

[onthemoon]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:26 PM, DrJoy said:

@onthemoon Any update for your MOI interview?

He said I should expect to be interviewed within this year. They will call me 7 days in advance. If I am overseas at the scheduled time, I can reschedule, no problem.

 

Note for those who are new: MOI received my docs in April 2020. I was told last year that I should expect to be interviewed early this year. I don't mind the waiting, I'm not going anywhere.

[DrJoy]

7 minutes ago, onthemoon said:

He said I should expect to be interviewed within this year. They will call me 7 days in advance. If I am overseas at the scheduled time, I can reschedule, no problem.

 

Note for those who are new: MOI received my docs in April 2020. I was told last year that I should expect to be interviewed early this year. I don't mind the waiting, I'm not going anywhere.

Thanks for the update!

[Flaxx]

I will be applying for Thai Citizenship in a few months from now and I have a question regarding donation to charity. I have a few donations to temples, with receipts but I imagine these doesn't work for this purpose. In addition I have a donation to a hospital here in Chiang Mai perhaps 5-6 years ago (5000 THB), I also have a receipt for this. I don't know if this lack of donation to a registered charity NGO will be a problem for me. If this ends up being a problem any suggestion for solution? Any relevant experience to share? 

I can mention that my donation to the hospital was for the specific purpose to one day apply for Thai Citizenship, but now my concern is that I misunderstood the requirements. Maybe it is just me seeing ghosts and everything is fine :).

Edited July 23, 2023 by Flaxx

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, Flaxx said:

I will be applying for Thai Citizenship in a few months from now and I have a question regarding donation to charity. I have a few donations to temples, with receipts but I imagine these doesn't work for this purpose. In addition I have a donation to a hospital here in Chiang Mai perhaps 5-6 years ago (5000 THB), I also have a receipt for this. I don't know if this lack of donation to a registered charity NGO will be a problem for me. If this ends up being a problem any suggestion for solution? Any relevant experience to share? 

I can mention that my donation to the hospital was for the specific purpose to one day apply for Thai Citizenship, but now my concern is that I misunderstood the requirements. Maybe it is just me seeing ghosts and everything is fine :).

1.) Donations to temples count. Use the receipts.

2.) Also use the hospital receipt. Do not say that your donation to the hospital was for applying for citizenship. They want people who have a genuinely good heart, not people who have a selfish purpose when donating.

 

HTH

[XGM]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:15 PM, khongaeng said:

 Supposedly you are supposed to get 5 points if you are on a house registration for 5 years, but they did not give me those points even though I was on a yellow book for 5 years.  You do not need to be registered for a minimum amount of time (if you are married to a Thai). I think the points in the residency section are geared towards Permanent Residents.

Got it. If I had any thoughts of getting registered and waiting 5 years to apply - not any more.

[XGM]

On 7/20/2023 at 9:22 AM, Arkady said:

Although my application category was later changed to PR, when I first applied I was classified as married

That's interesting, could you elaborate on this? what was the reason for the change and what was the procedure for that?

[XGM]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:04 AM, onthemoon said:

MOI received my docs in April 2020. I was told last year that I should expect to be interviewed early this year.

Is that kind of timeline normal now?

[onthemoon]

57 minutes ago, XGM said:

Got it. If I had any thoughts of getting registered and waiting 5 years to apply - not any more.

I waited 5 years to let my PR age in grace before applying for citizenship. ????

[onthemoon]

46 minutes ago, XGM said:

Is that kind of timeline normal now?

Yes, apparently.