Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[DrJoy]

1 minute ago, JayLeno said:

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

I am not (yet) married. Once married, is there a minimum additional years of marriage to be fulfilled?

Once married (Thai Lady) you need to wait for 3 yrs from the date you get your Marriage Certificate,

 

1 year wait if have a child together

 

However, 3 yrs of tax payments still required (PND 91) Company balance sheets, company tax records etc.

 

If you do not wish to get married or marry your own nationality, then PR will be your choice ahead.

 

Do remember if unmarried the minimum salary you earn has to be THB 80,000/- a month, half if married to Thai.

 

Cost of PR = THB 200,000/- if unmarried or married to Non Thai

 

Cost of Thai citizenship = THB 5100/-

[JayLeno]

Thanks so much! Straight to the point!

[JayLeno]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

Once married (Thai Lady) you need to wait for 3 yrs from the date you get your Marriage Certificate,

 

1 year wait if have a child together

 

However, 3 yrs of tax payments still required (PND 91) Company balance sheets, company tax records etc.

 

If you do not wish to get married or marry your own nationality, then PR will be your choice ahead.

 

Do remember if unmarried the minimum salary you earn has to be THB 80,000/- a month, half if married to Thai.

 

Cost of PR = THB 200,000/- if unmarried or married to Non Thai

 

Cost of Thai citizenship = THB 5100/-

 

If married for 2 years, that means half 80,000 required for two years and 80,000 required for 1 year, correct?

[DrJoy]

10 minutes ago, JayLeno said:

 

If married for 2 years, that means half 80,000 required for two years and 80,000 required for 1 year, correct?

No.

 

If you are married, the threshold is 40,000 baht monthly and you will be assessed on that.

 

 

 

There is a point structure those married to Thai ladies -

 

40,000 thb to 50,000 thb = 15 points

50,001 to 60,000 = 20 points

60,001 to 70,000 = 25 points

 

The above is for Thai citizenship applications for those married to a Thai lady.

 

[DrJoy]

17 minutes ago, JayLeno said:

 

If married for 2 years, that means half 80,000 required for two years and 80,000 required for 1 year, correct?

You wont get extra points for the year that you had high salary.

 

For point consideration, they calculate the latest available PND 91 .

 

Example - 

 

2 years you had 40,000 salary but in the 3rd qualifying year your salary is lets say 70,000 baht then you will get the maximum points i.e. 25 points

[JayLeno]

Understood. Thanks so much

[Mortis]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, DrJoy said:

No MOI interview as of 26-June-2023.

 

Can expect soon.

Good Luck.

Does MOI publish past and future interview dates and details anywhere online?
If hear anything about MOI interview please don't forget to share with us, thanks in advance. ????

[DrJoy]

3 hours ago, Mortis said:

Does MOI publish past

Yes, only past interviews are published on the DOPA website.

 

I will let you all know, if I get the info.

 

The purpose of this thread is to help all the new and future candidates applying for Thai citizenship.

 

@david143 David please share info about MOI interviews , if you get any before me.

 

 

Good Luck

[BKKBike09]

On 6/15/2023 at 9:03 PM, Arkady said:

No. 50 seems not too smart to give up his Thai nationality to become an American. 

He's from the Amatayakul family so I'd guess has a life and a ton of assets in the USA.

 

Any idea why there's suddenly a slew of renunciations? Since there aren't many obvious Western foreign family names in that list, doesn't look like it's Luuk Khrueng kids being made to pick. I assume all the countries - Austria, Singapore, Taiwan, S Korea etc - are ones that only allow single nationality.

 

I'm surprised there aren't more Chinese (PRC) cases there. Coming soon, perhaps ...

[Arkady]

10 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

He's from the Amatayakul family so I'd guess has a life and a ton of assets in the USA.

 

Any idea why there's suddenly a slew of renunciations? Since there aren't many obvious Western foreign family names in that list, doesn't look like it's Luuk Khrueng kids being made to pick. I assume all the countries - Austria, Singapore, Taiwan, S Korea etc - are ones that only allow single nationality.

 

I'm surprised there aren't more Chinese (PRC) cases there. Coming soon, perhaps ...

ฺBut no obvious advantage in ditching Thai nationality.

 

Apart from Mr Amatayakul the renunciations all seem to be in favour of citizenships of countries that are very strict in following up to ensure original citizenship has been renounced, once they have granted citizenship by naturalisation. Korea allows 12 months, I think, to submit a renunciation certificate or the Korean citizenship will be revoked. Taiwan is the worst as it actually demands that applicants for naturalisation renounce their citizenship during the application process.  This is inhuman as the applicant becomes stateless for a year or more waiting for Taiwanese citizenship.  There have been many cases of mail order type brides from Vietnam, Thailand and other countries being divorced by their Taiwanese husbands before the process is finished, thus being made ineligible for naturalisation.  This is big problem for ex-Vietnamese women because there is no way to recover Vietnamese citizenship once it has been renounced. Some have had children after being divorced and their children became stateless too, as the Taiwanese fathers abandoned them. Hypocritically Taiwan allows those born Taiwanese to hold dual citizenship. 

 

Good point about the lack of mainland Chinese but I think it is very difficult to acquire Chinese nationality by naturalisation and this may not a favorite destination for Thais to move to permanently, marry locals and wish to become citizens. The trend seems more in the opposite direction with wealthy Chinese flocking to Thailand to start businesses and have their children educated in a more liberal environment.  I also wonder if the many Chinese who naturalise as Thais all actually renounce their Chinese citizenship. I don't how strictly that is enforced, even though the Chinese embassy is informed about them. I read somewhere that many Chinese who naturalise as Westerners manage to maintain Chinese ID cards, even if they travel to China on Western passports which might give them access to foreign consular protection (if not British). Keeping Chinese ID cards allows them to retain property ownership rights and other things.  We have to remember that banning dual citizenship was never China's intention but it was forced on them by SE Asian countries like Indonesia, Thailand and the Philippines as a condition of normalisation of diplomat relations in the early 1970s. Those countries were fearful of their Chinese residents' loyalty to the mother country after the Communists took it over. Historically China had always viewed the Chinese diaspora as Chinese and until that point was very happy to issue anyone who could prove Chinese descent with Chinese passports. Chinese Thais born in Thailand up to a certain point in time often preferred not to take up their birthright Thai citizenship. There were no restrictions on foreigners working or owning businesses in Thailand and men could avoid military conscription by not taking up their Thai citizenship, while women would have their Thai citizenship automatically revoked anyway, if they married Chinese citizens. When immigration restrictions were introduced in the 1920s it was easy to get PR.  This situation accounts for the provision in the Nationality Act that Thais who have obtain alien books are ineligible to recover Thai nationality.  The idea was that Chinese males, for example, could choose to get an alien book at 16, I think, which made them ineligible for conscription as foreigners but they could not change their minds later and take up their Thai citizenship. 

[JayLeno]

On 7/7/2023 at 6:00 PM, DrJoy said:

No.

 

If you are married, the threshold is 40,000 baht monthly and you will be assessed on that.

 

 

 

There is a point structure those married to Thai ladies -

 

40,000 thb to 50,000 thb = 15 points

50,001 to 60,000 = 20 points

60,001 to 70,000 = 25 points

 

The above is for Thai citizenship applications for those married to a Thai lady.

 

Hi,

 

May I know the point structure, for the salary part, please. When not married

 

Thanks in advance :)

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, JayLeno said:

Hi,

 

May I know the point structure, for the salary part, please. When not married

 

Thanks in advance ????

SECURITY OF PROFESSION

Income (monthly) on which tax paid:
80,000 to 100,000 – 15 points
100,000 to 120,000 – 20 points
Over 120,000 – 25 points

OR

Income (monthly) on which tax paid in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 60,000 – 15 points
60,000 to 80,000 – 20 points
Over 80,000 – 25 points

 

The above is from the points allocation missive published in 2010 following new guidelines which changed the way points were allocated significantly.  The pre-2010 system allocated points on the amount of tax paid but this was eliminated in 2010, although you still hear people talking about the amount of tax you have to pay, as if this were still actually required information.  However, a vestige of it seems to be the separate list of pre-tax salary levels above.  There is also a separate list of slightly lower salaries where tax is not mentioned which I assume was net of tax and has probably been ignored by officials.  There may have been revisions to the wording but I don't have any later versions.  As far as I know the salary levels remain the same, since there have been no new guidelines since then but I would be happy to be corrected on this.

 

It's worth noting that these salary levels have been in effect now for 14 years and, when introduced, raised the minimum salaries from 30,000 and 70,000 for married and unmarried applicants respectively.  A new set of ministerial regulations has been drafted to replace the current 1967 regulations which has obviously been left to the next government to introduce.  Whenever that happens, there will definitely be a new set of guidelines and points allocation which will no doubt raise these salary levels again.  I would expect to see minimum salaries go up to 50,000 for married applicants and 100,000 for unmarried.  Borderline salary applicants who are already qualified should apply as soon as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JayLeno]

Thanks so much for the clear answers. Have a great day!

[ecline]

 

On 6/27/2023 at 11:05 AM, david143 said:

anyone has attended interview @ moi this month my colleague is waiting for interview call he has applied since 2021 July, but still there is no call for interview, when he called to the MOi office they said please wait you maybe in this year.

I applied in June 2021, so I called the MOI today to check my status. Last year the Bangkok special Branch told us they sent my docs to the MOI in August last year. Today the MOI told me they received my docs in December of last year and that there was zero chance of an interview this year and that there was a good chance I won't get an interview next year either. I don't know what happened there, but my citizenship bid seems to have been been set back by quite a while. The guy on the phone implied that I should not call again and that someone would be in touch when my time comes.

 

37 years in this country and I have always tried to do the right thing. It sure doesn't seem to count for much.....

[khongaeng]

1 hour ago, ecline said:

 

I applied in June 2021, so I called the MOI today to check my status. Last year the Bangkok special Branch told us they sent my docs to the MOI in August last year. Today the MOI told me they received my docs in December of last year and that there was zero chance of an interview this year and that there was a good chance I won't get an interview next year either. I don't know what happened there, but my citizenship bid seems to have been been set back by quite a while. The guy on the phone implied that I should not call again and that someone would be in touch when my time comes.

 

37 years in this country and I have always tried to do the right thing. It sure doesn't seem to count for much.....

That sounds about right given most people's recent timelines.  My documents were at MOI for 30 months before I finally got called for an interview.  The process is incredibly slow.  I reached out to SB once every couple of months and MOI once every couple of months during my application process and it didn't help at all.  Fortunately this forum provides clear documentation that the application process works.  I remember how painful the waiting process was thinking how can it be this way after paying so many Baht in taxes and after doing this and that for the country and the community that I live in.  Don't worry about it.  Your application is making progress, just let it run its course.  It will take 3-4 years give or take half a year.  This is normal.  Good luck!

[ecline]

18 minutes ago, khongaeng said:

That sounds about right given most people's recent timelines.  My documents were at MOI for 30 months before I finally got called for an interview.  The process is incredibly slow.  I reached out to SB once every couple of months and MOI once every couple of months during my application process and it didn't help at all.  Fortunately this forum provides clear documentation that the application process works.  I remember how painful the waiting process was thinking how can it be this way after paying so many Baht in taxes and after doing this and that for the country and the community that I live in.  Don't worry about it.  Your application is making progress, just let it run its course.  It will take 3-4 years give or take half a year.  This is normal.  Good luck!

I know you are correct. It's just disheartening and I am very much wanting to retire. If they would let me give up my work permit, I wouldn't care that much if it took another 5 years. But it is what it is. Suck it up and one day it will happen. (End of whining session)

[DrJoy]

5 hours ago, Arkady said:

Income (monthly) on which tax paid in the case of those married to a Thai national, or having Thai children, or having graduated from high school in Thailand:
40,000 to 60,000 – 15 points
60,000 to 80,000 – 20 points
Over 80,000 – 25 points

 

I think it was like this for those married to a Thai national -

 

40,000 thb to 50,000 thb = 15 points

50,001 to 60,000 = 20 points

60,001 to 70,000 = 25 points

[DrJoy]

42 minutes ago, ecline said:

would let me give up my work permit

Dont cancel WP, your application can get stalled for good, not worth the risk.

[ecline]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

Dont cancel WP, your application can get stalled for good, not worth the risk.

For sure I'm not doing that :-)

[Dogmatix]

One of the few positive effects of the 2014 coup was Gen Anuphong being installed as interior minister and apparently reading the riot act to bureaucrats for deliberately stonewalling citizenship and PR applications in the hope of getting bribes. But it seems like he gave up the unequal struggle a couple of years ago and the jungle has been growing back. Anuphong got the wait for MOI interview down to about a year during the junta government but it has been creeping back towards the three years or so it was averaging before the coup when 5 years from application to ID card was considered good. Who knows what the new government might bring?

[DrJoy]

@onthemoon Any update for your MOI interview?

[onthemoon]

1 hour ago, DrJoy said:

@onthemoon Any update for your MOI interview?

I am currently out of the country and plan to call them again when I am back in Thailand later this month.

[Arkady]

21 hours ago, DrJoy said:

I think it was like this for those married to a Thai national -

 

40,000 thb to 50,000 thb = 15 points

50,001 to 60,000 = 20 points

60,001 to 70,000 = 25 points

You may well right. The document is a bit confusing, as it cites the list quoted by yourself above and the higher levels in my earlier post.  I had assumed that the higher band would apply as there is a reference to income on which tax is paid.  I have attached the original 2010 Thai document that I saved when it was available on SB's website for those who are interested. I can't find any more recent publication on it online. For anyone applying for whom this is important, I would suggest clarifying with SB.

Points TH.pdf

[XGM]

Is there a summary of the current requirements and the main steps that one needs to go through? the specifics of the points system for each type of criteria, level of Thai required to gain this or that amount of points, salary (I see that this point was actually covered in a recent post) etc?

Undoubtedly there's tonnes of useful information in this thread but reading through 270+ pages is challenging.

[Dogmatix]

5 hours ago, XGM said:

Is there a summary of the current requirements and the main steps that one needs to go through? the specifics of the points system for each type of criteria, level of Thai required to gain this or that amount of points, salary (I see that this point was actually covered in a recent post) etc?

Undoubtedly there's tonnes of useful information in this thread but reading through 270+ pages is challenging.

Re level of Thai required it is intermediate level Thai. You need to be able hold a reasonable conversation and answer questions. If you are applying without a Thai spouse, you need to be able to sing the National and Royal anthems unaccompanied and handle an interview of about 10 minutes by yourself at the MOI- if married to a Thai your are interviewed with your spouse who may help you.  Reading and writing is not required but you may offer to do the reading and writing tests to get more points.  Knowledge of the Thai language is only an absolute requirement, if you don't have a Thai spouse but it is hard to get through the process without being able to communicate in Thai at all and you may need the points allocated for Thai language.

[XGM]

14 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Re level of Thai required it is intermediate level Thai. You need to be able hold a reasonable conversation and answer questions. If you are applying without a Thai spouse, you need to be able to sing the National and Royal anthems unaccompanied and handle an interview of about 10 minutes by yourself at the MOI- if married to a Thai your are interviewed with your spouse who may help you.  Reading and writing is not required but you may offer to do the reading and writing tests to get more points.  Knowledge of the Thai language is only an absolute requirement, if you don't have a Thai spouse but it is hard to get through the process without being able to communicate in Thai at all and you may need the points allocated for Thai language.

Anthems: should the applicant sing it all "from memory" or can a piece of paper with the lyrics be used?

Reading and writing tests: are there example texts / questions available anywhere to get an idea about the difficulty level?

[onthemoon]

3 hours ago, XGM said:

Anthems: should the applicant sing it all "from memory" or can a piece of paper with the lyrics be used?

You have to sign from memory (I asked SB at the time when I had to test sing)

 

3 hours ago, XGM said:

Reading and writing tests: are there example texts / questions available anywhere to get an idea about the difficulty level?

I am not aware of any reading or writing tests. However, I read the questions to the Thai language test to them aloud by myself, and then answered them. I had the impression that they did not expect the applicant to be able to read at all. I think the test is only meant to be an oral test.

[DrJoy]

4 hours ago, XGM said:

Reading and writing tests: are there example texts / questions available anywhere to get an idea about the difficulty level?

The tests are quite tough , if you are not married to a Thai national

[onthemoon]

13 hours ago, DrJoy said:

The tests are quite tough , if you are not married to a Thai national

I didn't think so. ???? These are multiple-choice questions, I remember one of them:

 

What is the capital of Thailand?

1.) Chiang Mai

2.) Bangkok

3.) Ayutthaya

 

[qualtrough]

5 hours ago, onthemoon said:

I didn't think so. ???? These are multiple-choice questions, I remember one of them:

 

What is the capital of Thailand?

1.) Chiang Mai

2.) Bangkok

3.) Ayutthaya

 

I took a 10 question multiple choice quiz. It could only be considered quite tough if the person taking it didn't have even a basic reading level. I think I missed two, and it wasn't a language issue. It was what are IMHO silly questions like "What time do government offices open and close?" I'm still not sure, and my family members are not in agreement about that either. If they wanted to crack down on applications they could institute a real citizenship test that would deal with things like history, politics, etc.