Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Oasis]

Good Luck, all of us, hope it will be like this.

[Oasis]

Good News! that now the permanent secretary of MOI is acting as Minister of MOI, hope the things will get geared and will move faster at MOI.

[sas_cars]

Good News! that now the permanent secretary of MOI is acting as Minister of MOI, hope the things will get geared and will move faster at MOI.

Lol. I think they have far more important national issues to focus, other than granting PR or citizenship to foreigners.

[GarryP]

Good News! that now the permanent secretary of MOI is acting as Minister of MOI, hope the things will get geared and will move faster at MOI.

Lol. I think they have far more important national issues to focus, other than granting PR or citizenship to foreigners.

Agreed. One can but live in hope.

[GarryP]

Any news whether the Minority and Nationalities Group of the ISB at the MOI is back in business?

[Arkady]

Any news whether the Minority and Nationalities Group of the ISB at the MOI is back in business?

I understand from SB that they were working all along from another location during the siege but not sure how much they were able to get done without those stacks of files you see in their office. They are certainly back in their own office now and I would imagine will get back to conducting interviews again soonish. But the permanent secretary, acting as interior minister, has no authority to approve applications under the Nationality Act. Will have to wait for the minister in the interim government. Prayuth has the power to sign anything but I think he has other priorities at the moment.

[GarryP]

According to SB the MOI has had two full interview sessions so far this year. They were held out at Klong Sarn. So it would appear that while the MOI was locked down by the protesters, the ISB at the DOPA was still working with a semblance of normality. Unfortunately, the DOPA website is still down so I am unable to see if pictures of these interview sessions have been posted. More, unfortunatley, I was not invited to any interview.

[aidenai]

Unfortunately, the DOPA website is still down so I am unable to see if pictures of these interview sessions have been posted.

http://isab.dopa.go.th/dopa_isab/home.jsp

[GarryP]

Unfortunately, the DOPA website is still down so I am unable to see if pictures of these interview sessions have been posted.

http://isab.dopa.go.th/dopa_isab/home.jsp

The link is slightly different to the one I have, but neither are loading for me.

[ubonjoe]

Unfortunately, the DOPA website is still down so I am unable to see if pictures of these interview sessions have been posted.

http://isab.dopa.go.th/dopa_isab/home.jsp

The link is slightly different to the one I have, but neither are loading for me.

The posted link worked for me but I don't think it is for the agency you want. The DOPA home page is working. http://www.dopa.go.th/

[GarryP]

Unfortunately, the DOPA website is still down so I am unable to see if pictures of these interview sessions have been posted.

http://isab.dopa.go.th/dopa_isab/home.jsp

The link is slightly different to the one I have, but neither are loading for me.

The posted link worked for me but I don't think it is for the agency you want. The DOPA home page is working. http://www.dopa.go.th/

Thanks to both of you. The DOPA homepage is working and there is a link to the ISAB page in there that does load. It is the same URL as provided by aidenai. The ISAB page is the one I wanted. I wonder what happened.

[Arkady]

The RG has recently been announcing citizenships of women married to Thais recently, one by one as usual. What is strange is that all were approved to go in the Gazette by Charupong in November before parliament was dissolved and he became caretaker interior minister. That seems all in order legally but I wonder what was the reason for the delay in announcing them. Perhaps the RG publishers like to horde these announcements for quiet days when there is not much else to announce but it must be frustrating for the women waiting for their ID cards. Normally the announcement is one or two months after the date of the minister's signature, i.e. the approval to go in the RG as the last step in the process, not the minster's first approval.

[samran]

The RG has recently been announcing citizenships of women married to Thais recently, one by one as usual. What is strange is that all were approved to go in the Gazette by Charupong in November before parliament was dissolved and he became caretaker interior minister. That seems all in order legally but I wonder what was the reason for the delay in announcing them. Perhaps the RG publishers like to horde these announcements for quiet days when there is not much else to announce but it must be frustrating for the women waiting for their ID cards. Normally the announcement is one or two months after the date of the minister's signature, i.e. the approval to go in the RG as the last step in the process, not the minster's first approval.

Promising in some ways I guess.

Perhaps there was no mechanism to announce in the RG between the dissolution of parliament and the coup?

Edited July 18, 2014 by samran

[Arkady]

There was a bunch of a announcements signed by the minister in Oct and Nov before the dissolution of parliament that trickled into the RG between Jan and June.

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[samran]

Mind putting up the link?

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited July 20, 2014 by samran

[CanadianGirl2]

Samran, do you have the link to the list of documents that you submitted for your wife’s application?

I’m in a similar situation and would like to apply for Thai citizenship ASAP due to the long processing time.

I’m a foreign woman married to a Thai man, marriage has been registered with the Thai authorities for over 3 years, husband has a monthly income of over 15,000฿, and I have my tabian baan. However, like yourself my husband hasn’t been a tax resident here in many years.

[Arkady]

Mind putting up the link?

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

The latest one is here, dated 24 July 2014 in the RG but the announcement was signed by the minister on 26 November 2013: http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/DATA/PDF/2557/D/077/8.PDF. You can find them all by searching for ได้สัญชาติไทย in http://www.ratchakitcha.soc.go.th/.

[Arkady]

Samran, do you have the link to the list of documents that you submitted for your wife’s application?

I’m in a similar situation and would like to apply for Thai citizenship ASAP due to the long processing time.

I’m a foreign woman married to a Thai man, marriage has been registered with the Thai authorities for over 3 years, husband has a monthly income of over 15,000฿, and I have my tabian baan. However, like yourself my husband hasn’t been a tax resident here in many years.

There is no list of documents for applicants under Section 9, which is your case, on the Special Branch website, so you probably have to visit them to pick it up. However there is a document in Thai called "Conditions for Exercise of the Interior Minister's Discretion Under Sections 9, 10, 11 and 12 of the Nationality Act here http://www.sbpolice.go.th/filedownload/2_06062553.pdf, which I have attached. The minimum requirement for the Thai husband's income is B20,000 a month (B10,000 if the applicant is a minority like a hill tribe person) which must be earned in Thailand and evidence of Thai tax payment is required. I have attached the list of documents required for naturalisation under Section 10 to give you an idea, although some of these will obviously not be needed by Section 9 applicants.

If your husband hasn't been working or paying tax in Thailand recently I would think he would need to set up some form of employment in Thailand for you to qualify. It shouldn't be too difficult to get employed by someone for at least B20,000 a month and the tax and social security on that would be negligible. I am not sure if he would need to do this for 3 years, as is the case under Section 10, or if only one year would be enough. I would think it would have to be income from employment rather than passive income from rentals or dividend income but Special Branch will be able to advise you on that and you should talk to them before going to any trouble. Even if your tabian baan is outside Bangkok, you can ask advice from Special Branch at National Police HQ where there is a dedicated department. If you are in the provinces, you will have to apply to Special Branch there but they are usually pretty clueless and may even refuse to process your application as it is too much trouble for them to figure out how to do it. If you have or can arrange a tabian baan in Bangkok, you chances will be better, although Phuket and Chonburi have been known to process applications. Under Section 9, you are not required to sing or even speak much Thai. You will interviewed with your husband who will be allowed to do most of the talking.

Good luck.

Conditions for Interior Minister's Discretion Under Sections 9,10, 11 and 12 of the Nationality Act.pdf

Documents required 2009 (2).doc

[samran]

Samran, do you have the link to the list of documents that you submitted for your wifes application?

Im in a similar situation and would like to apply for Thai citizenship ASAP due to the long processing time.

Im a foreign woman married to a Thai man, marriage has been registered with the Thai authorities for over 3 years, husband has a monthly income of over 15,000฿, and I have my tabian baan. However, like yourself my husband hasnt been a tax resident here in many years.

There is no list of documents for applicants under Section 9, which is your case, on the Special Branch website, so you probably have to visit them to pick it up. However there is a document in Thai called "Conditions for Exercise of the Interior Minister's Discretion Under Sections 9, 10, 11 and 12 of the Nationality Act here http://www.sbpolice.go.th/filedownload/2_06062553.pdf, which I have attached. The minimum requirement for the Thai husband's income is B20,000 a month (B10,000 if the applicant is a minority like a hill tribe person) which must be earned in Thailand and evidence of Thai tax payment is required. I have attached the list of documents required for naturalisation under Section 10 to give you an idea, although some of these will obviously not be needed by Section 9 applicants.

If your husband hasn't been working or paying tax in Thailand recently I would think he would need to set up some form of employment in Thailand for you to qualify. It shouldn't be too difficult to get employed by someone for at least B20,000 a month and the tax and social security on that would be negligible. I am not sure if he would need to do this for 3 years, as is the case under Section 10, or if only one year would be enough. I would think it would have to be income from employment rather than passive income from rentals or dividend income but Special Branch will be able to advise you on that and you should talk to them before going to any trouble. Even if your tabian baan is outside Bangkok, you can ask advice from Special Branch at National Police HQ where there is a dedicated department. If you are in the provinces, you will have to apply to Special Branch there but they are usually pretty clueless and may even refuse to process your application as it is too much trouble for them to figure out how to do it. If you have or can arrange a tabian baan in Bangkok, you chances will be better, although Phuket and Chonburi have been known to process applications. Under Section 9, you are not required to sing or even speak much Thai. You will interviewed with your husband who will be allowed to do most of the talking.

Good luck.

When we applied I only had to show one year of tax return.

[Arkady]

When we applied I only had to show one year of tax return.

That makes sense as the wording doesn't specify any time horizon except that income should be 20k a month or at least average 20k a month over a year and you would need to show at least one year's notarised tax receipts. Income from self employment is acceptable and that doesn't require membership of the social security scheme or audited accounts. I would guess that showing income in excess of B240k for the remainder of the year from consulting fees or similar on a self employed basis would be sufficient. You would need to file a PNG 90 tax return which is for income other than salary before March. Tax on that would be almost nil and you might need to earn a bit more just to get up into positive tax territory since it is necessary to pay tax. I don't know what happens for the husbands of minorities who only need to show B10k a month which is below the tax threshold.

[samran]

When we applied I only had to show one year of tax return.

That makes sense as the wording doesn't specify any time horizon except that income should be 20k a month or at least average 20k a month over a year and you would need to show at least one year's notarised tax receipts. Income from self employment is acceptable and that doesn't require membership of the social security scheme or audited accounts. I would guess that showing income in excess of B240k for the remainder of the year from consulting fees or similar on a self employed basis would be sufficient. You would need to file a PNG 90 tax return which is for income other than salary before March. Tax on that would be almost nil and you might need to earn a bit more just to get up into positive tax territory since it is necessary to pay tax. I don't know what happens for the husbands of minorities who only need to show B10k a month which is below the tax threshold.

Which is basically what I did. I has finished an employment contract in feb or March the year before and that 9 to 5 employment easily took me over the 15k per month average at the time and tax paid to the RD off the basis of that. After that I had some contract work, all off shore and nominally tax free. I still got the hr at those places to produce income letters but the tax was based on my old job.

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Edited August 11, 2014 by samran

[Cheops]

Hi Samran and all,

firstly I need to thank you all for this great thread with a lot of useful information!

Currently I'm preparing the paperwork to apply for Thai Citizenship and have some questions regarding this.

I'm married with a Thai national for >8 years and we have 2 children together. Furthermore I worked here >9 years meeting the salary requirements and paid yearly taxes. I'm on a permanent contract for the same company during these 9 years (and actually in total 19 years, including 10 years in the Netherlands). I can speak Thai, but not super fluent. I can manage alone in Thai, but will have trouble if discussing a lot of difficult official Thai terms. The officer who handled my yellow Tabien Ban book complimented me for my Thai language though . I think a lot depends on attitude and personal character.

The following mentioned requirements are from the "Documents required for application for Thai nationality" list shared in this thread.

Who can be a witness for following requirement? Can this be any person, including family members, like a sister of my wife etc.or should this be 2 persons not connected to me or my wifes family? And do they need to come with me when I actual start processing the application?

"ID card and house registration certificate of 2 witnesses – 1 copy."

I assume the educational certificates should be translated into Thai and legalized?

Is it sufficient to only have the last (highest) educational certificate?

"Educational certificates of the applicant and of all children."

Does the Embassy (Dutch in my case) knows what is meant by this and can they provide this?

"Certificate confirming age of majority according the law of the applicant’s original nationality (from embassy or consulate) translated into Thai."

How strict is this requirement that it should be 'some time ago'? How to arrange this? Just request a receipt? Does it need to be a temple or will any charity do?

"Evidence of charitable donations (not less than Baht 5,000 and should be donated some time ago not just in time for nationality application)."

Furthermore I miss the requirement to have a 'good behavior' proof from the police department or something. Isn't that required or are you requested to provide this later on?

Last, but maybe not least, does the complete family (wife and kids) need to join me when applying and also when going for a first visit to gather information? Or just when I start the actual application? Will a nice shirt do for the application or should I be dressed in a nice suit?

Sorry for all the questions of which maybe some sound silly, but I would like to process this in a good manner.

Thanks a lot in advance for any useful information!

(ps, I did read a lot on TV in several threads, but it could be that I missed some answers on my questions above, so pls don't shoot me for that).

[Neeranam]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/19731-thai-citizenship-requirements/

[Arkady]

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/19731-thai-citizenship-requirements/

This is from a post in the Phuket Gazette online still comes up frequently, despite dating from 2004. While some of it is still true, it is out of date because it pre-dates the 2008 Nationality Act which introduced the provision allowing males with Thai wives to bypass permanent residence and the 2009 ministerial guidelines which, among other things, overhauled the points system. Use it at your peril or consult more up-to-date information to be found earlier in this thread.

[Arkady]

Hi Samran and all,

firstly I need to thank you all for this great thread with a lot of useful information!

Currently I'm preparing the paperwork to apply for Thai Citizenship and have some questions regarding this.

I'm married with a Thai national for >8 years and we have 2 children together. Furthermore I worked here >9 years meeting the salary requirements and paid yearly taxes. I'm on a permanent contract for the same company during these 9 years (and actually in total 19 years, including 10 years in the Netherlands). I can speak Thai, but not super fluent. I can manage alone in Thai, but will have trouble if discussing a lot of difficult official Thai terms. The officer who handled my yellow Tabien Ban book complimented me for my Thai language though . I think a lot depends on attitude and personal character.

The following mentioned requirements are from the "Documents required for application for Thai nationality" list shared in this thread.

Who can be a witness for following requirement? Can this be any person, including family members, like a sister of my wife etc.or should this be 2 persons not connected to me or my wifes family? And do they need to come with me when I actual start processing the application?

"ID card and house registration certificate of 2 witnesses – 1 copy."

I assume the educational certificates should be translated into Thai and legalized?

Is it sufficient to only have the last (highest) educational certificate?

"Educational certificates of the applicant and of all children."

Does the Embassy (Dutch in my case) knows what is meant by this and can they provide this?

"Certificate confirming age of majority according the law of the applicant’s original nationality (from embassy or consulate) translated into Thai."

How strict is this requirement that it should be 'some time ago'? How to arrange this? Just request a receipt? Does it need to be a temple or will any charity do?

"Evidence of charitable donations (not less than Baht 5,000 and should be donated some time ago not just in time for nationality application)."

Furthermore I miss the requirement to have a 'good behavior' proof from the police department or something. Isn't that required or are you requested to provide this later on?

Last, but maybe not least, does the complete family (wife and kids) need to join me when applying and also when going for a first visit to gather information? Or just when I start the actual application? Will a nice shirt do for the application or should I be dressed in a nice suit?

Sorry for all the questions of which maybe some sound silly, but I would like to process this in a good manner.

Thanks a lot in advance for any useful information!

(ps, I did read a lot on TV in several threads, but it could be that I missed some answers on my questions above, so pls don't shoot me for that).

Thai language. Your Thai language will be fine. You’ll probably find it worthwhile to learn some of the vocab to do with applying for Thai nationality, as well as general stuff to do with the civil service and police that can come up in conversation. Practice reading or have some one read to you the ministerial guidelines on applying for Thai nationality and relevant parts of the Nationality Act in Thai. That will give you a lot of useful vocab and make sure you recognize the Thai for say, “Commander of the Section for Thai Nationality Applications, Legal Department, Special Branch, Royal Thai Police”. Some “rajasup” to do with the royal family for the General Knowledge test will also be useful but mainly fairly simple stuff like the official names for the King and Queen, so you can recognize them in the test. You do not need to be able to read and write Thai and you will be interviewed at the ministry with your wife who is allowed to prompt you. The Thai language requirement is more demanding for applicants who apply without a Thai spouse and they have to sing too.

Witnesses. These have to be unrelated to your wife's family. They don't need to be prominent persons but it is best to find two people in employment with respectable jobs, although they don't need to have high salaries. They will have to disclose their salaries on the form, so it is actually best not to ask very senior people, as this could be embarrassing. They need to have known you for a number of years. Colleagues or ormer colleagues are fine. Technically they should be interviewed by Special Branch but, in Bkk anyway, SB may take the view that it is not necessary to drag them in, if all looks credible.

Educational certificates. Yes, these need to be translated with a “certified translator” stamp but in the recent past they didn’t have to be legalized. Check with SB the current requirements. They don’t specify what level of certificates. You should submit all university and professional level certificates. High school certificates will only be needed, if you have no university or college level certificates.

Certificate confirming age of majority. In fact they normally don’t need this, if it is obvious that you are over the age of majority. Check with SB first.

Charitable donations. They are usually not too strict on the time period, as far as I know. A year or maybe even less should be enough. Check with SB and start donating now. Any Thai registered charity or temple that can give an official receipt will do. Some may even willing to backdate for you. I hear a lot of horrible stories about people buying fake donation receipts to get tax deductions, so I suppose anything is possible.

Police clearance form. Not required. They check you for behavior and criminal record themselves with Thai police records, narcotics bureau and Interpol and check your finger prints with the Thai police database.

Family. SB will want to see your Thai wife and children once you have initiated the formal application. You wife is very important because you will apply on the basis of being married to a Thai, unless you have permanent residence. The National Intelligence Agency (NIA) will interview you both after you have applied and will be particularly interested in checking that your marriage is genuine and ongoing.

Appearance. You can wear what you want but I suggest wearing a collar and tie when you visit SB and meet the NIA and a business suit when you go for your interview at the ministry. A lot of applicants show up to the ministry wearing polo shirts and even jeans. But you want to make a good impression on people who have a great deal of discretion over your application and it doesn't cost anything to dress respectfully.

Employment. Please note that you must remain in employment and earning above the minimum for the entire application process. Your work permit and employment status can be re-checked later on and you need to bring along your work permit and other documents when you are interviewed at the ministry and when you make the oath of allegiance after the King has signed.

[Cheops]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hi Samran and all,

firstly I need to thank you all for this great thread with a lot of useful information!

....

....

Sorry for all the questions of which maybe some sound silly, but I would like to process this in a good manner.

Thanks a lot in advance for any useful information!

(ps, I did read a lot on TV in several threads, but it could be that I missed some answers on my questions above, so pls don't shoot me for that).

Thai language. Your Thai language will be fine. You’ll probably find it worthwhile to learn some of the vocab to do with applying for Thai nationality, as well as general stuff to do with the civil service and police that can come up in conversation. Practice reading or have some one read to you the ministerial guidelines on applying for Thai nationality and relevant parts of the Nationality Act in Thai. That will give you a lot of useful vocab and make sure you recognize the Thai for say, “Commander of the Section for Thai Nationality Applications, Legal Department, Special Branch, Royal Thai Police”. Some “rajasup” to do with the royal family for the General Knowledge test will also be useful but mainly fairly simple stuff like the official names for the King and Queen, so you can recognize them in the test. You do not need to be able to read and write Thai and you will be interviewed at the ministry with your wife who is allowed to prompt you. The Thai language requirement is more demanding for applicants who apply without a Thai spouse and they have to sing too.

Witnesses. These have to be unrelated to your wife's family. They don't need to be prominent persons but it is best to find two people in employment with respectable jobs, although they don't need to have high salaries. They will have to disclose their salaries on the form, so it is actually best not to ask very senior people, as this could be embarrassing. They need to have known you for a number of years. Colleagues or ormer colleagues are fine. Technically they should be interviewed by Special Branch but, in Bkk anyway, SB may take the view that it is not necessary to drag them in, if all looks credible.

Educational certificates. Yes, these need to be translated with a “certified translator” stamp but in the recent past they didn’t have to be legalized. Check with SB the current requirements. They don’t specify what level of certificates. You should submit all university and professional level certificates. High school certificates will only be needed, if you have no university or college level certificates.

Certificate confirming age of majority. In fact they normally don’t need this, if it is obvious that you are over the age of majority. Check with SB first.

Charitable donations. They are usually not too strict on the time period, as far as I know. A year or maybe even less should be enough. Check with SB and start donating now. Any Thai registered charity or temple that can give an official receipt will do. Some may even willing to backdate for you. I hear a lot of horrible stories about people buying fake donation receipts to get tax deductions, so I suppose anything is possible.

Police clearance form. Not required. They check you for behavior and criminal record themselves with Thai police records, narcotics bureau and Interpol and check your finger prints with the Thai police database.

Family. SB will want to see your Thai wife and children once you have initiated the formal application. You wife is very important because you will apply on the basis of being married to a Thai, unless you have permanent residence. The National Intelligence Agency (NIA) will interview you both after you have applied and will be particularly interested in checking that your marriage is genuine and ongoing.

Appearance. You can wear what you want but I suggest wearing a collar and tie when you visit SB and meet the NIA and a business suit when you go for your interview at the ministry. A lot of applicants show up to the ministry wearing polo shirts and even jeans. But you want to make a good impression on people who have a great deal of discretion over your application and it doesn't cost anything to dress respectfully.

Employment. Please note that you must remain in employment and earning above the minimum for the entire application process. Your work permit and employment status can be re-checked later on and you need to bring along your work permit and other documents when you are interviewed at the ministry and when you make the oath of allegiance after the King has signed.

Hi Arkady and Neeranam,

sorry for a bit late reaction, but both my job and my family with 2 young kids is quite busy.

Thanks both for your information. Although the link was indeed to an older list, all info is welcome for me now

Seems I will need to arrange indeed the charity donation (it's tax deductable as well ). Although I have given numerous times in the past I don't have any proof of that. Actually if you count the money that I always donate in all those boxes in the shops in Thailand I'm sure it adds up to more than the requirement over all those years

Witnesses and employment will no be a problem. I have several long term Thai friends and can also arrange someone in a more senior position, but as you correct mentioned about the salary maybe better to stick to middle level colleages/friends. And for now there is no worry in sight about my job.

[iancnx]

I just would like to confirm if possible. Am I right in assuming if you are married to a Thai, live here permanently (non O extended) but do not work (I don't need too) then you are unable to get citizenship? Is Permanent Residency the only way to circumvent the annual extensions and 90/90/90/90?

[Mario2008]

And even PR will be difficult without a job and if you don't work your wife needs to have an income of at least 30,000 bath. Employement is one of the criteria based on which they determine if you are an asset to Thai society.

[GarryP]

I just would like to confirm if possible. Am I right in assuming if you are married to a Thai, live here permanently (non O extended) but do not work (I don't need too) then you are unable to get citizenship? Is Permanent Residency the only way to circumvent the annual extensions and 90/90/90/90?

Your assumption in regard to citizenship is correct. You do not qualify. As to PR, I'll leave that to the experts but believe you need to be in employment in Thailand to qualify for that too.

[iancnx]

I just would like to confirm if possible. Am I right in assuming if you are married to a Thai, live here permanently (non O extended) but do not work (I don't need too) then you are unable to get citizenship? Is Permanent Residency the only way to circumvent the annual extensions and 90/90/90/90?

Your assumption in regard to citizenship is correct. You do not qualify. As to PR, I'll leave that to the experts but believe you need to be in employment in Thailand to qualify for that too.

Just as I was led to believe. Thanks for replying.

When will Thailand catch up with the rest of the world I wonder?