Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[Arkady]

There is no list of authorised translators. You may use any translation agency of your choice, as long as they certify it with their stamp that has their name, address and phone number on it.  There is no need to restrict the list of translators because the MoFA will vet the translations anyway, when you get them legalised, and will knock them back, if there is the slightest trivial thing they feel is not quite right, while often completely overlooking glaring translation errors. For that reason it may be a good idea to either get your translation agency to handle the legalisation which involves a long time queuing at the MoFA office in Chaengwattana, or use one of the translation agencies in the same building, so they can correct mistakes on the spot.  No need to ask me how I found this out!

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, SWW said:

I am in a situation where I applied in December 2015, and have had the interviews with the police (one with the chap at SB, one with the guys in McD and the big one with everyone and the head police dude in their big meeting room). But since the last meeting in around July last year I have not heard another thing. SB told me the application is with the Ministry of the Interior, and I should wait for them to contact me for the interview with them. Since then I have not heard anything.

 

However, my wife has recently been having health issues (involving a heart operation), and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that "something could happen to her" either before or after the interview, were one to happen. This has of course added to the general stress of everything.

 

If something did happen to my wife before the interview, then my application would be void - but what about if something happened to her after the interview but before the end of the process, which can also take a long time?

 

Worried,

 

SWW

 

I am very sorry to hear about your wife's illness. I recommend that you go along in person to the citizenship section at DOPA in Lamlukka as soon as possible and explain your concerns.  Take your wife with you, if she is fit enough and able and willing to talk to them about this. If not, try to take a doctor's certificate explaining the seriousness of her condition.  Either way, you should ask them if there is any way they can speed up your interview, due to the concerns regarding your wife's health.   They are human and will give you a hearing on this.  You might need to submit an official letter to them, as they would need to cover themselves to avoid being accused of accepting a bribe to let someone jump the queue under this government which emphasises transparency and fairness in the processes for citizenship and PR.  In the very worst case possible they still have the discretion to approve you.  So don't be too disheartened about the citizenship application.  Go along and talk to them.  Although I applied on the basis of PR, as far as I know, there would not be any point where your wife would be required after the DOPA interview.  Best of luck.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

I'm preparing all documents to apply under marriage but one thing is still unclear to me: my marriage was registered abroad and not directly in Thailand, so all I have is the translation and an equivalent thai document of the marriage (Ko Ro 22, issued 18 years ago) but no actual "thai certificate" or thai registration like the one people married in thailand get. Could this be an issue?

 

And definitely, I will share any point that can help others, as soon as I'm advanced in the process.

[Anthony Loh]

I'm preparing all documents to apply under marriage but one thing is still unclear to me: my marriage was registered abroad and not directly in Thailand, so all I have is the translation and an equivalent thai document of the marriage (Ko Ro 22, issued 18 years ago) but no actual "thai certificate" or thai registration like the one people married in thailand get. Could this be an issue?
 
And definitely, I will share any point that can help others, as soon as I'm advanced in the process.

Is not a issue for your marriage certificate as Long as it have been translated to Thai and certified by the Thai authorities.


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[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

I'm preparing all documents to apply under marriage but one thing is still unclear to me: my marriage was registered abroad and not directly in Thailand, so all I have is the translation and an equivalent thai document of the marriage (Ko Ro 22, issued 18 years ago) but no actual "thai certificate" or thai registration like the one people married in thailand get. Could this be an issue?

The Kor Ror is proof your marriage is registered here.
A updated print out of the Kor Ror 22, your marriage certificate and a translation of it certified by the department of consular affairs.would be accepted.

[VinBkk]

Hello,

 

Could someone kindly tell me the process (requirements/documents) to apply for Thai Citizenship?

May be post a link to the page if it's already posted somewhere.

 

Many thanks for this wonderful thread.

 

Cheers

VinBkk

[GabbaGabbaHey]

13 minutes ago, VinBkk said:

Hello,

 

Could someone kindly tell me the process (requirements/documents) to apply for Thai Citizenship?

May be post a link to the page if it's already posted somewhere.

 

Many thanks for this wonderful thread.

 

Cheers

VinBkk

As everything will be in Thai, I recommend to start with documents from this link http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php

Otherwise, since I read the whole thread and took some notes (I recommend everyone to do the same), it should be approximately something like this:

 

1- Get checklist from http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php and gather all application documents
2- Bring documents to the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok

            อาคาร 6 สำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ
            ถนนพระราม 1, แขวงวังใหม่
            เขตปทุมวัน กรุงเทพมหานคร 
            02 205 1823

3- Bring two witnesses and family
4- Bring the police forms to Immigration and District office
5- Get the forms back to Police
6- Thai language interview at Police
7- Meeting at Interior Ministry (40 people panel): singing + interview
8- House visit
9- Approval by the Interior Minister
10- King countersign
11- Oath of allegance
12- Publication to the Royal Gazette
13- Get certificate from Police HQ
14- Return Work permit, alien and residence certificates, and Get the Thai ID

 

All, let me know if I misunderstood or forgot anything important. BTW I'm just at #1 at the moment.

[GarryP]

3 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

As everything will be in Thai, I recommend to start with documents from this link http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php

Otherwise, since I read the whole thread and took some notes (I recommend everyone to do the same), it should be approximately something like this:

 

1- Get checklist from http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php and gather all application documents
2- Bring documents to the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok

            อาคาร 6 สำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ
            ถนนพระราม 1, แขวงวังใหม่
            เขตปทุมวัน กรุงเทพมหานคร 
            02 205 1823

3- Bring two witnesses and family
4- Bring the police forms to Immigration and District office
5- Get the forms back to Police
6- Thai language interview at Police
7- Meeting at Interior Ministry (40 people panel): singing + interview
8- House visit
9- Approval by the Interior Minister
10- King countersign
11- Oath of allegance
12- Publication to the Royal Gazette
13- Get certificate from Police HQ
14- Return Work permit, alien and residence certificates, and Get the Thai ID

 

All, let me know if I misunderstood or forgot anything important. BTW I'm just at #1 at the moment.

You are missing the interview with the National Intelligence Agency.

 

I had no home visit nor did I sing anything (based on marriage). I don't recall getting any documents from Immigration, but I could be wrong.

[skippybangkok]

Correction - got Thai ID already, but still have the documents in 14. Will get around to it one day

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[Arkady]

On 3/18/2017 at 3:33 PM, GabbaGabbaHey said:

As everything will be in Thai, I recommend to start with documents from this link http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php

Otherwise, since I read the whole thread and took some notes (I recommend everyone to do the same), it should be approximately something like this:

 

1- Get checklist from http://www.sb.police.go.th/sb/documentDownload.php and gather all application documents
2- Bring documents to the Special Branch of the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok

            อาคาร 6 สำนักงานตำรวจแห่งชาติ
            ถนนพระราม 1, แขวงวังใหม่
            เขตปทุมวัน กรุงเทพมหานคร 
            02 205 1823

3- Bring two witnesses and family
4- Bring the police forms to Immigration and District office
5- Get the forms back to Police
6- Thai language interview at Police
7- Meeting at Interior Ministry (40 people panel): singing + interview
8- House visit
9- Approval by the Interior Minister
10- King countersign
11- Oath of allegance
12- Publication to the Royal Gazette
13- Get certificate from Police HQ
14- Return Work permit, alien and residence certificates, and Get the Thai ID

 

All, let me know if I misunderstood or forgot anything important. BTW I'm just at #1 at the moment.

 

Re #4. SB gives you letters addressed to Immigration, your district office and the Labour Ministry.  You have take the letters to them in person and get letters from them certifying that your tabien baan, residence book, alien book and work permit are genuine, as described by the OP early on in this thread. If you are not a permanent resident and consequently don't have a residence book or an alien book, presumably there is no need to get anything from Immigration.

 

Re #7.  Singing was required by all applicants for naturalisation at the time the OP started this thread and all also had to have PR.  In 2008 the Act was amended to allow males with Thai wives to apply without getting PR first and without having to sing.

 

Re #8.  When the OP applied house visits (and work place visits) by the NIA were routine but some time after that, they had their budget cut for this activity which must be rather time consuming, apart from the costs involved.  I haven't heard of any of these visits taking place over the last few years but that doesn't mean it will never happen again.

 

Re #14.  There is no need to return your work permit or inform the Labour Ministry you are no longer a foreigner.  You can just let it expire and keep it as a souvenir.   I believe you do need to return your alien and residence books to Immigration, if you are a permanent resident, and would advise against just letting them expire.  It is quite painless and only takes about 20 minutes.  You can do it on the way to applying for your Thai passport at MoFA's Chaengwattana passport office and savour your last ever visit to Immigration. I have the sense that retaining an alien book as a Thai could potentially cause problems, if it was found out.  If you have taken a Thai name, it could look like you have tried to maintain two identities in Thailand and/or are taking an excessive interest in your original nationality. Although some have reported that they have successfully left Thailand and returned without cancelling their most recent visa, I would advise cancelling it, whether you were a PR or not.  The downside of being delayed and hassled by Immigration when you are rushing to catch a plane, seems to me to be not worth the risk.

[GarryP]

When I cancelled my visa at the one stop service center at Chamjuri, they really did not know what to do. But they required me to hand over my Work Permit.

 

I should mention that immigration at Chaengwattana would not cancel my visa. They said I had to do it where I got my last extension  (after waiting half a day). So I rushed across town and got the next to last queue number at Chamjuri. Took about 20 minutes, but they were guessing what they should do and even asked me. 

[GarryP]

When I cancelled my visa at the one stop service center at Chamjuri, they really did not know what to do. But they required me to hand over my Work Permit.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

A stupid question perhaps but at least it will save me some stress if I can prepare in advance for the application: can someone confirm I have to sign each page of required document copies (passeport, books, work permit, tabian baan...)?

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

A stupid question perhaps but at least it will save me some stress if I can prepare in advance for the application: can someone confirm I have to sign each page of required document copies (passeport, books, work permit, tabian baan...)?

 

Yes, you do.  It is best to ask SB exactly what they need.  I prepared the copies of documents according to the official guidelines, only to find that they wanted more copies of some of them which meant an additional trip there.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Hello, I have two more stupid questions (it's always better to be prepared with good tips, isn't it?)

 

- My Work permit specifies a very old position (I changed several times) while the company letter specifies my current title. I have to fill this into the application form and this means misalignment with the work permit. Can this be an issue or is it something SPB will fully understand? An option would be to use the old position, but this is not something I want to be doing unless I have no other choice.

 

- Regarding numbers and dates, do we have to fill the application form using Thai numerals only?

[Arkady]

2 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hello, I have two more stupid questions (it's always better to be prepared with good tips, isn't it?)

 

- My Work permit specifies a very old position (I changed several times) while the company letter specifies my current title. I have to fill this into the application form and this means misalignment with the work permit. Can this be an issue or is it something SPB will fully understand? An option would be to use the old position, but this is not something I want to be doing unless I have no other choice.

 

- Regarding numbers and dates, do we have to fill the application form using Thai numerals only?

 

Unfortunately any inconsistency between work permit and company letter, however trivial in reality, sounds exactly the sort of thing that could cause you a lot of grief.  You are probably expected by the Labour Ministry to inform them and have your WP amended, if there is any change in your position.  I asked my company to specify exactly the same position in the letter as was in my WP.  If you do that, you can eliminate a known risk but be prepared for any other curved balls that might get thrown at you.  In my case I had a problem because the salary specified in my company letter didn't match the salary I had received the year before down to the last satang, according to my tax receipts.  Logical arguments about having had a pay rise in the second half of the year cut no ice at all. SB just said I had to do whatever it took to get the two numbers to match or the MoI might find the inconsistency and send the file back to them for fact checking and a lengthy delay.  I hope this gives you an idea of the type of intransigent bureaucratic mindset you will be dealing with.

 

Don't worry about the application form.   They don't let you fill in for yourself.  They do it all for you but you need to be able to scrawl your need in Thai several times.  You should also prepare details of your siblings and, I think, parents.  You need to be able to give them spellings of their names in Thai and their current address and possibly birth places and professions.  You also need their dates of birth (in farang and Thai calendar).  Although SB will probably not warn you about this in advance, it saves a lot of time and angst to prepare Thai spellings of all this and bring them along.  When you have finished, keep them safely because you will need all the same stuff again, along with the name of your university in Thai when you apply for your ID card.  I learned all this the hard way.

[skippybangkok]

When I cancelled my visa at the one stop service center at Chamjuri, they really did not know what to do. But they required me to hand over my Work Permit.

Just let it expire ?

I still have not found the time to do it, keep forgetting too


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[GabbaGabbaHey]

Hello,

 

On the aspect of assets declaration, I have a little issue. Like many other men, my Thai wife owns the house, condo and car, so excluding these I look like having no property at all in Thailand - just few 100Ks THB in cash in the bank - and this doesn't make my application very sexy. Actually I have some assets in my country (standard amounts though):  cash, stocks, things like a corporate share plan, but also less tangible stuff like bare-ownership of a house from a potential future inheritance.  Before I list them all on the paper, I first need to understand if this is going to put me in a process where every line will be asked for details from the bank or institution, with translation, and so forth - which could turn into a heavy process, or on the contrary they will accept a self-certify declaration of assets, without evidence? This would be paradise but I have a doubt it works like this. To simplify I could think to sells shares, corporate plans from abroad and transfer the amount to Thailand... is it worth? Do you have recommendations on this tricky topic?

 

(Side question: can LTF and Provident Fund in Thailand be listed as part of the assets?)

 

[Big Guns]

I don't think assets are particularly important. I applied 2.5 years ago and I'm currently waiting to be notified of my date for the oath. I think I had a bit of cash in the bank here and that was it. I think as long as you meet the criterion in terms of the points then you're fine. I used a lawyer unlike many of the others here and I found her to be very helpful.

[GarryP]

18 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Hello,

 

On the aspect of assets declaration, I have a little issue. Like many other men, my Thai wife owns the house, condo and car, so excluding these I look like having no property at all in Thailand - just few 100Ks THB in cash in the bank - and this doesn't make my application very sexy. Actually I have some assets in my country (standard amounts though):  cash, stocks, things like a corporate share plan, but also less tangible stuff like bare-ownership of a house from a potential future inheritance.  Before I list them all on the paper, I first need to understand if this is going to put me in a process where every line will be asked for details from the bank or institution, with translation, and so forth - which could turn into a heavy process, or on the contrary they will accept a self-certify declaration of assets, without evidence? This would be paradise but I have a doubt it works like this. To simplify I could think to sells shares, corporate plans from abroad and transfer the amount to Thailand... is it worth? Do you have recommendations on this tricky topic?

 

(Side question: can LTF and Provident Fund in Thailand be listed as part of the assets?)

 

As Big Guns says, it is not a big issue. I had just bought a house in my son's name so my savings were pretty much wiped out. I have no property overseas. I showed what little I had in the bank, my LTFs and RMF and that was it. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Thank you Big Guns and GarryP. I'm glad to hear that. But just does anyone has any experience on this point: if you provide a screenshot of a bank account or stock portfolio in a foreign country/institution, would they take it "as is" or immediately ask you to get  the institution certified letter, later to be translated in thai language? I'm curious how far this would go. 

[Arkady]

4 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Thank you Big Guns and GarryP. I'm glad to hear that. But just does anyone has any experience on this point: if you provide a screenshot of a bank account or stock portfolio in a foreign country/institution, would they take it "as is" or immediately ask you to get  the institution certified letter, later to be translated in thai language? I'm curious how far this would go. 

They will not even look at anything to do with assets overseas.  Specifically the form asks for details of property (i.e. condos, as that is all you are allowed to own) and bank account.  I offered Thai brokerage account details but they didn't want that, although I note that they accepted Garry's RMF and LTF details.  For my condo a copy of the title deed certified by  me was accepted.  

 

Now listen carefully.  For the bank statement, they only want a letter confirming the balance as of that date but it must be addressed to the nationality section of the SB correctly, or it will be rejected, as my first attempt was.  You will have to ask SB to print this out for you, as they are unlikely to give it to you, unless you ask.  Then you have to make absolutely sure that the bank uses that - my bank addressed their second attempt to the Immigration Department because some idiot at head office insisted he knew that was required and overruled me and the girl at the branch.   I had something close to an apoplectic fit when I went to pick it up.  As Big Guns and Garry have said, the amount of assets you show doesn't seem to make any difference to your application.  If you ask them, I think SB will advise you to show at least B80,000 or something like that in a bank account.  If you don't have the recommended minimum in your account at the time, you can borrow some more from a friend for one day, as that is all it takes.  Again, you are thankfully not dealing with Immigration and the assets qualification is nothing like as arduous as for retirement or marriage extensions which require B400-800k 'seasoned' for 3 months.  The reason for this is that you qualify by virtue of having an occupation in Thailand to support yourself with, whereas those people only have their savings and pensions to live on.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

2 hours ago, Arkady said:

They will not even look at anything to do with assets overseas.  Specifically the form asks for details of property (i.e. condos, as that is all you are allowed to own) and bank account.  I offered Thai brokerage account details but they didn't want that, although I note that they accepted Garry's RMF and LTF details.  For my condo a copy of the title deed certified by  me was accepted.  

 

Now listen carefully.  For the bank statement, they only want a letter confirming the balance as of that date but it must be addressed to the nationality section of the SB correctly, or it will be rejected, as my first attempt was.  You will have to ask SB to print this out for you, as they are unlikely to give it to you, unless you ask.  Then you have to make absolutely sure that the bank uses that - my bank addressed their second attempt to the Immigration Department because some idiot at head office insisted he knew that was required and overruled me and the girl at the branch.   I had something close to an apoplectic fit when I went to pick it up.  As Big Guns and Garry have said, the amount of assets you show doesn't seem to make any difference to your application.  If you ask them, I think SB will advise you to show at least B80,000 or something like that in a bank account.  If you don't have the recommended minimum in your account at the time, you can borrow some more from a friend for one day, as that is all it takes.  Again, you are thankfully not dealing with Immigration and the assets qualification is nothing like as arduous as for retirement or marriage extensions which require B400-800k 'seasoned' for 3 months.  The reason for this is that you qualify by virtue of having an occupation in Thailand to support yourself with, whereas those people only have their savings and pensions to live on.

Wonderful, you answered almost everything I needed  here:-) which makes things clearer for me now.  And this is really good tip to know about the SB naturalization section to put in the bank letter. How about the company letter for the salary and position, should it be the same address too? The one I have doesn't have any recipient.

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Wonderful, you answered almost everything I needed  here:-) which makes things clearer for me now.  And this is really good tip to know about the SB naturalization section to put in the bank letter. How about the company letter for the salary and position, should it be the same address too? The one I have doesn't have any recipient.

 

I dug out the file and this is the format I was given to address the bank balance confirmation letter to.  The company letter was not addressed to anyone in particular and they accepted it without comment.  So, unless things have changed, the company letter you have already should be fine.

 

 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

Can anyone tell me who has to sign copies of Tabian Baan, spouse ID, children IDs and children birth certificate (between: myself/spouse/both/nobody)? Another question is : do I need the charity institutions to provide a certified true copy of their receipt, or showing the originals and providing a self-signed copy would be sufficient?

Thanks.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

One thing I just read here at http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/documents/how-to-legalize-a-document.html

IF THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT TO BE LEGALIZED IS NOT IN ENGLISH IT MUST BE TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH AS WELL AS THAI. 

 

Is this true?  Because I'm about to go to Chaeng Wattana to legalize few documents next week. Although they were translated in Thai and stamped by my embassy, I don't have the English version. I don't even know how an English translation could be legalized in my case (by who?).

 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

One thing I just read here at http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/documents/how-to-legalize-a-document.html

IF THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT TO BE LEGALIZED IS NOT IN ENGLISH IT MUST BE TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH AS WELL AS THAI. 

 

Is this true?  Because I'm about to go to Chaeng Wattana to legalize few documents next week. Although they were translated in Thai and stamped by my embassy, I don't have the English version. I don't even know how an English translation could be legalized in my case (by who?).

 

You need to get the declaration you make at your embassy translated and notarised at the MoFA but I can't for the moment think of anything else that needed this.  Of course, it would be necessary for your marriage cert, if you were married overseas.

[Arkady]

10 hours ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Can anyone tell me who has to sign copies of Tabian Baan, spouse ID, children IDs and children birth certificate (between: myself/spouse/both/nobody)? Another question is : do I need the charity institutions to provide a certified true copy of their receipt, or showing the originals and providing a self-signed copy would be sufficient?

Thanks.

 

You just submit copies certified by yourself or by your wife in the case of her docs.  For kids, if they are old enough to sign, I guess they can certify their docs.  Otherwise you should do it.  For the docs they need special notarisation for, e.g. your work permit they will give you a letter to take to the issuing authority. 

 

Don't worry too much about these details.  No one gets everything right on the first shot and they change the rules, depending on who's in charge.  SB will go through everything with you with a fine tooth comb and send you away with a pile of homework.

[new123321]

Been searching through this post for ages and looking for confirmation. If unmarried with a Thai child can I skip PR and apply for citizenship?, have just done my 3rd year tax return and have extension based on my child for 4 years.

Thanks

[Fritsie]

On 4/17/2017 at 2:55 PM, new123321 said:

Been searching through this post for ages and looking for confirmation. If unmarried with a Thai child can I skip PR and apply for citizenship?, have just done my 3rd year tax return and have extension based on my child for 4 years.

Thanks

No, you need to be married to be able to apply directly for citizenship. Having a child together only means that you can apply one year after the date of marriage. Without children this period is three years.