Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[choonsan]

On 12/10/2017 at 7:34 PM, greenchair said:

For me getting the id was harder than getting the citizenship. 

And I had to have my passport translated, which I didn't even need to do to get citizenship because they used the translation of my birth certificate. 

I had about 4 trips to the umpur. 

 

Greenchair, May I ask which Amphoe is this? Thanks

[choonsan]

I did my oath at the SB in June and waiting patiently for the Royal Gazette.

Anyone here in the same group got their name in the RG yet?

I understand that the previous list was endorsed on 11th. of August and got published in September.

[thunder18]

2 hours ago, choonsan said:

I did my oath at the SB in June and waiting patiently for the Royal Gazette.

May I ask you when was your interview @MOI ?

It is almost a year fom me after the interview (Jan'17), and all is quiet since then. No SB calls, no oath, no RG lists. Continuous calls to MOI produce no any sensible results ("Your documents are in processing, please check again next month").

[Neeranam]

Firstly, what a great thread!

I've stated making enquiries about this process.

The first thing that seems to be wrong is that my tabien bahn doesn't have my mother and father's name on it and also their nationality.

Does anyone know if I can just go to the amount and add them?

When my wife spoke to the police they said I Need to go my embassy and get my passport certified. I frankly don't believe this, and it's a long way from my home for a wasted journey. I have had a yellow book for many years but recently moved it to lopburi

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, choonsan said:

Greenchair, May I ask which Amphoe is this? Thanks

Tungkru. 

Why? 

[greenchair]

37 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Firstly, what a great thread!

I've stated making enquiries about this process.

The first thing that seems to be wrong is that my tabien bahn doesn't have my mother and father's name on it and also their nationality.

Does anyone know if I can just go to the amount and add them?

When my wife spoke to the police they said I Need to go my embassy and get my passport certified. I frankly don't believe this, and it's a long way from my home for a wasted journey. I have had a yellow book for many years but recently moved it to lopburi

Nowadays most offices are requiring passport certification from embassy. I had to do it.

It's standard. 

[greenchair]

19 hours ago, Big Guns said:

Does anyone know exactly which documents the council need to give me a Thai ID card. They already have the Royal Gazette & my Thai citizenship document. I have round 2 with them next week. I might explode if I get asked for a load of stupid docs again. Last time requests included; where I stayed on holiday in Thailand in 2004, salary, university for masters, brothers name, wedding certificate, document for wife changing surname, passport & work permit. Alternatively anyone I can call to give them guidance.

You need to go to your embassy and get a certification document that your passport is real. You then go to foreign affairs office and they will translate your passport. Then submit your documents for verification on the second floor, and eait 3 days.then take that with all the other stuff to the umpur. 

 

[greenchair]

In my valued opinion, getting the ID is harder than citizenship and yearly visas to immigration put together. 

[Neeranam]

14 minutes ago, greenchair said:

In my valued opinion, getting the ID is harder than citizenship and yearly visas to immigration put together. 

I have yellow book already

Edited October 18, 2017 by Neeranam

[greenchair]

38 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I have yellow book already

So did I 

[GarryP]

44 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I have yellow book already

But I believe you will need to update it to include your parents names. Pretty much means going through a lot of the process again. I luckily avoided this when I did my yellow book the first time by including my parents names from the very beginning. I was also advised to make sure my nationality was indicated as British, not Angrit in the yellow book. 

[GabbaGabbaHey]

3 hours ago, thunder18 said:

May I ask you when was your interview @MOI ?

Choosan answered this question on June 2: "I had my interview at MOI (Lumluka DOPA) end May last year."

 

[Neeranam]

40 minutes ago, GarryP said:

But I believe you will need to update it to include your parents names. Pretty much means going through a lot of the process again. I luckily avoided this when I did my yellow book the first time by including my parents names from the very beginning. I was also advised to make sure my nationality was indicated as British, not Angrit in the yellow book. 

Thanks for the advice ! I assumed it would be British, as I am on the book as that.

Speaking to an agent friend, who called the amphur, she said I need my passport and birth certificate "rap rong" for embassy, then translated and taken to the amphur. She never mentioned getting the translation verified anywhere, like the MOFA.

Looking at past posts, I'm ready for the long, testing, process!

[greenchair]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Thanks for the advice ! I assumed it would be British, as I am on the book as that.

Speaking to an agent friend, who called the amphur, she said I need my passport and birth certificate "rap rong" for embassy, then translated and taken to the amphur. She never mentioned getting the translation verified anywhere, like the MOFA.

Looking at past posts, I'm ready for the long, testing, process!

Well I was right about the translation and I am right about mofa and trust me don't go to any old translation office. Mine did it wrong and I wasted 1500 baht. 

It's 300 baht at the mofa and the guy will meet you at the door and be back in an hour. If you do it by the cue office you will wait 5 days. 

No apology necessary ?

[Neeranam]

19 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Well I was right about the translation and I am right about mofa and trust me don't go to any old translation office. Mine did it wrong and I wasted 1500 baht. 

It's 300 baht at the mofa and the guy will meet you at the door and be back in an hour. If you do it by the cue office you will wait 5 days. 

No apology necessary ?

I don't think I disagreed with you.

So you recommend that I go from my embassy to the mofa in Chaeng Wattana?

What guy will meet me? Use any of the translation places there for 300 baht? I haven't been there in 10 years.

What is the cue office? Do you mean don't use a good translation shop like Siam translation or others recommended by the US embassy?

 

[thunder18]

1 hour ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

Choosan answered this question on June 2: "I had my interview at MOI (Lumluka DOPA) end May last year."

...counts to be 1year+1month between the MOI interview and the oath themselves.

So I am somehow on track then (only 9 months passed for me).

[MrPatrickThai]

On 10/16/2017 at 5:03 PM, MrPatrickThai said:

Well, after sending the required documents as asked by SB, then they said they were all OK, and waiting for them to come up with a date, they called me today and said to come in to submit the docs. Then they phoned back later, saying that the my points were only 47 and Id need to sing the royal songs to get the full points. I suggested to him that this wasn’t required anymore and I think I have enough points, being married to a Thai, been here 22 years etc. Then he phoned back saying that my degrees need verified at the  British embassy. 

I just about give up the whole process then but I said I’ve already bought ticket to go to Bangkok and want to come to the office to see them. He didn’t seem to like this idea and started saying that my Thai was not very clear. I said I want to hear it all face to face and see how many points I can get.(I’m really hoping to chnge offiers or speak to the boss) I thought I could get 10 points for my age -50, 15 points for income(married to a Thai), 15 points for living in Thailand for over 20 years. 15 points, or even 10 for Thai language. Also 5 points for personality(he said 4) and knowledge of Thailand, at least 5. This, without the education qualifications is at least 60. Am I missing something?

If I need to get my degrees certified this means sending them to the UK, which could take weeks and then I’d need to update the other stuff like bank letters etc.

He said he wouldn’t give me the points for the Thai knowledge - is this done after submitting the docs, or do you get tested at the same time?

Sigh, maybe I should learn the songs tonight.

Any advice very welcome.

Well promising news when I went to the SB today. I never saw the usual officer but had an appointment with the boss, who is a very nice, helpful man!

He advised that I come back with missing photos of my wife and kids(that were sent) and learn the two royal songs. He gave me something to read, which is no bother for me, and asked me a couple of simple questions about Thailand. Said he recommended I forget the degree verification, and just sing the songs to him. I said the only song I'd ever sung in Thai to more than 4 people was "lung kee mao", which he found funny. Said I could get 15 points for the Thai language section(after the other guy saying he didn't understand my Thai). So, if I get a couple of points for learning the songs, no bother as I know one already, call him for an appointment and apply and he'll give the Thai test, where I'd need 3 points or so.

I might go to the embassy tomorrow as I'm here in Bangkok and ask them about an affidavit for my degree(wouldn't do any harm).

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Well promising news when I went to the SB today. I never saw the usual officer but had an appointment with the boss, who is a very nice, helpful man!

He advised that I come back with missing photos of my wife and kids(that were sent) and learn the two royal songs. He gave me something to read, which is no bother for me, and asked me a couple of simple questions about Thailand. Said he recommended I forget the degree verification, and just sing the songs to him. I said the only song I'd ever sung in Thai to more than 4 people was "lung kee mao", which he found funny. Said I could get 15 points for the Thai language section(after the other guy saying he didn't understand my Thai). So, if I get a couple of points for learning the songs, no bother as I know one already, call him for an appointment and apply and he'll give the Thai test, where I'd need 3 points or so.

I might go to the embassy tomorrow as I'm here in Bangkok and ask them about an affidavit for my degree(wouldn't do any harm).

 

Tip. The National Anthem is quite easy but the Royal Anthem is significantly harder, among other things because it covers a rather broad vocal range close to the average human voice's total range which I think is about one and a half octaves.  The key to singing the Royal Anthem unaccompanied is to start the song close to the bottom of your vocal range because the opening notes are just about the lowest in the song. That way you can avoid running out of range and squawking when you get to the highest notes towards the end of the song.  Alternatively you can jump down an octave to sing the high notes but that sounds pretty awful and is to be avoided, if possible.        

[MrPatrickThai]

Well, sitting here at the consular section of the UK embassy, they are certifying my degrees. Funny as they are talking about inconsistency in the Thai authorities. When I phoned them the other day, they said they couldn't do it.

[Arkady]

13 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Well, sitting here at the consular section of the UK embassy, they are certifying my degrees. Funny as they are talking about inconsistency in the Thai authorities. When I phoned them the other day, they said they couldn't do it.

 

That's one headache relieved.  Some of the vice-consuls there do seem a bit scatty to put it nicely, or even ignorant and stupid to put it less nicely. Some years ago a very aggressive Thai female vice-consul refused my request to sign my declaration of intent and tried to make me renounce my nationality instead. I tried to persuade her that the Home Secretary would not approve applications to renounce nationality that would leave someone stateless and that, moreover, being stateless would disqualify me for Thai nationality, rendering me stateless in perpetuity.  But she would have none of it and thrust the form for renunciation of nationality at me, signalling that the discussion was at a close.  I had to go back another day to see a British vice-consul to get it done. On another occasion I needed an apostille, which I now see is being required for PR applications for copies of passports and British marriage certificates etc and no doubt will soon find its way into the citizenship process.  A British vice-consul admitted that he had never heard of an apostille but would get back to me.  About a week later he emailed me with the information that apostiles could only be done in London.  Meanwhile, a German national involved in the same business was able to get an apostile of his passport without fuss at the German Embassy.  

 

Another issue to look out for is that Thai vice-consuls at the British Embassy will never give the spelling of their names in Thai, unless you ask for it. The experience I had with this was that a translator just made up his own spelling without bothering to call the British Embassy to check it.  He guessed wrong and the MoFA notarisation service picked up on it when they checked with the signatures of consular they have on file.  This resulted in a further trip to the embassy to get the spelling of the vice-consu's name, trips to the translation agency to get it corrected and back again to MoFA at CW.  The embassy charges enough for its legalisation services and knows that you need the documents translated into Thai,  so why not think it through and do the job properly?       

 

[MrPatrickThai]

8 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

That's one headache relieved.  Some of the vice-consuls there do seem a bit scatty to put it nicely, or even ignorant and stupid to put it less nicely. Some years ago a very aggressive Thai female vice-consul refused my request to sign my declaration of intent and tried to make me renounce my nationality instead. I tried to persuade her that the Home Secretary would not approve applications to renounce nationality that would leave someone stateless and that, moreover, being stateless would disqualify me for Thai nationality, rendering me stateless in perpetuity.  But she would have none of it and thrust the form for renunciation of nationality at me, signalling that the discussion was at a close.  I had to go back another day to see a British vice-consul to get it done. On another occasion I needed an apostile, which I now see is being required for PR applications for copies of passports and British marriage certificates etc and no doubt will soon find its way into the citizenship process.  A British vice-consul admitted that he had never heard of an apostile but would get back to me.  About a week later he emailed me with the information that apostiles could only be done in London.  Meanwhile, a German national involved in the same business was able to get an apostile of his passport without fuss at the German Embassy.  

 

Another issue to look out for is that Thai vice-consuls at the British Embassy will never give the spelling of their names in Thai, unless you ask for it. The experience I had with this was that a translator just made up his own spelling without bothering to call the British Embassy to check it.  He guessed wrong and the MoFA notarisation service picked up on it when they checked with the signatures of consular they have on file.  This resulted in a further trip to the embassy to get the spelling of the vice-consu's name, trips to the translation agency to get it corrected and back again to MoFA at CW.  The embassy charges enough for its legalisation services and knows that you need the documents translated into Thai,  so why not think it through and do the job properly?       

 

Wow, your persistence and effort to get your citizenship really inspire and motivates me Arkady! I actually spoke to one of the more senior ones there at length. She even gave me a copy of the Thai nationality act. She said that they can't do the "intent to renounce British citizenship" as it is not a Consular service, which maybe means I need to get a British diplomat to do it like you did. I'd be interested to hear anyone else's experience getting this document. Also, at what stage is it needed?

I maybe as well learn that song anyway, as I actually like the tune and still may need the extra couple of points!

[MrPatrickThai]

One question. Now I have my degrees certified, I take them to get translated.

Do I need to get both sides done as I have already had the front page translated, but foolishly didn't keep a copy? How much does the MOFA charge for stamping such a document?

Are there translation places at the MOFA? Could they do it in 1 hour or so, or would you recommend getting them done before going there?

Do I have to hang around Bangkok for 3 /4 days to receive them or can they post them to me?

I was also getting UK passports renewed for my kids today and forgot to get the house book translated. Took one shop at Trendy 1 hour for this simple task! 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

On 10/18/2017 at 3:50 PM, Neeranam said:

Thanks for the advice ! I assumed it would be British, as I am on the book as that.

Speaking to an agent friend, who called the amphur, she said I need my passport and birth certificate "rap rong" for embassy, then translated and taken to the amphur. She never mentioned getting the translation verified anywhere, like the MOFA.

Looking at past posts, I'm ready for the long, testing, process!

The British embassy don't certify birth certificates, this has to be sent to the UK.

[GabbaGabbaHey]

18 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

How much does the MOFA charge for stamping such a document?

Are there translation places at the MOFA? Could they do it in 1 hour or so, or would you recommend getting them done before going there?

Do I have to hang around Bangkok for 3 /4 days to receive them or can they post them to me?

I was also getting UK passports renewed for my kids today and forgot to get the house book translated. Took one shop at Trendy 1 hour for this simple task! 

 

-  I paid 200 baht per each stamp

- There are translation companies located there and they seem to have fast service (what they told me when I was approached) however I haven't used any of them so I can't say much more. 

- You can specify to receive the stamped documents by Post in the application form. See details http://www.consular.go.th/main/contents/files/services-20161031-183439-280102.png

 

 

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, GabbaGabbaHey said:

-  I paid 200 baht per each stamp

- There are translation companies located there and they seem to have fast service (what they told me when I was approached) however I haven't used any of them so I can't say much more. 

- You can specify to receive the stamped documents by Post in the application form. See details http://www.consular.go.th/main/contents/files/services-20161031-183439-280102.png

 

 

Thanks a lot, that's a great link. I see they have a fast service too for 400 baht, which would be convenient for me. 

[Arkady]

21 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Thanks a lot, that's a great link. I see they have a fast service too for 400 baht, which would be convenient for me. 

 

Last time I went there they had a curious system whereby you had to wait in a queue to see a supervisor and explain to her why you needed the fast service.  Everyone's reason was accepted without question, so it seemed to be a complete waste of manpower.  You need to be there in the morning in time to get your documents in before they disappear for lunch to get the fast service.  There is usually a huge queue.  Then you have to hang around till about 3.00pm and wait for your name or number to be called, unless they have changed the system.  

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

The British embassy don't certify birth certificates, this has to be sent to the UK.

Damn.

Sometimes I think they are useless.

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

The British embassy don't certify birth certificates, this has to be sent to the UK.

 

This is what's known as an apostille, i.e. they check that the document is actually genuine, rather than just certifying that a photocopy is a true and accurate copy of an original which may, for all they know, be fake.  

[MrPatrickThai]

10 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

This is what's known as an apostille, i.e. they check that the document is actually genuine, rather than just certifying that a photocopy is a true and accurate copy of an original which may, for all they know, be fake.  

Interesting, I thought that was a follower of Jesus or a bunch of 12 rocks in South Australia! I'm surprise the Consulate verified my degrees, with so many for sale here. They 'boss' said they could only do some unis. I wonder if they actually have a database of graduates.

[ubonjoe]

49 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I'm surprise the Consulate verified my degrees, with so many for sale here. They 'boss' said they could only do some unis. I wonder if they actually have a database of graduates.

This is what they have on their website. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

Quote

Certified Copies of UK degree certificates

Degree certificates have to be issued in the UK by a recognised body and are listed Legalisation Office website