Story Of My Thai Citizenship Application

[samran]

Shame that there is not a level playing field for foreign men isn't it?

totally agree....it isn't the fairest situation.

Anyway, I've posted the rules as they stand (april 08). Be aware that the requirements can and do change

First two pages apply to individual applications

Second two pages apply soley to foreign wives married to a thai national.

Happy reading.

Thai_Nationality_documents_male_and_female.pdf

[lopburi3]

Link added to useful information at top of forum.

[mrsmith]

to become a citizen of the us you have to say the pledge of alliegence, to sing thai national anthem should not be am embarrasment! [/b]

To sing the National Anthem should be required to get citizenship of any country. Usually, to get citizenship, you should have been there so long allready there should be no problem in singing the national anthem. I took me 3 months the sing the Thai National Anthem fluently, I can only speak a little Thai, but I can sing the National Anthem fluently. Hope other countries have the same requirements......................

[TheChiefJustice]

Thanks, Samran. The rules you posted are, in fact, the old rules. Did you specifically ask them about the 5 years on PR requirement? That rule did change. I have seen the resolution of the relevant MOI meeting that changed it. I know they still hand out the old rules sometimes becuase they have not yet been bothered to print out the new rules. My suspicion is that this is the case - unless, of course, you confirm that you specifically ASKED them about the 5 year PR requirement and they actuallt told you that it is still required. Very interested to hear your reply.

[sas_cars]

After reading the pdf files of rules for men applying thai citizenship. I read that if you are having a child in thailand, you can apply for citizenship on humanitarian basis ( i.e. 30,000/month salary rule) , but it doesn't state whether the child has to be thai citizenship or not. What in case of a foreign couple living together in thailand with children born here ? Hope Samran or another person with knowledge about it can shed some light.

[samran]

Thanks, Samran. The rules you posted are, in fact, the old rules. Did you specifically ask them about the 5 years on PR requirement? That rule did change. I have seen the resolution of the relevant MOI meeting that changed it. I know they still hand out the old rules sometimes becuase they have not yet been bothered to print out the new rules. My suspicion is that this is the case - unless, of course, you confirm that you specifically ASKED them about the 5 year PR requirement and they actuallt told you that it is still required. Very interested to hear your reply.

Chief justice.

to be honest, I didn't ask. The reason I assumed that they were the 'new rules' was that they changed the rules for women (and printed out a new form) back in Jan/Feb of this year.

Based on this I assumed that that the rules for men would be 'new' as well. Having seen your post though, I kinda suspect that they may have simply handed out the old rules which have not been updated.

Moral of the story is to go down, and ask! I still have to take a couple of witnesses down to vouch for us, so I'll report back....

[sas_cars]

Samran,

On your next trip to there, please don't forget to ask about my query as well. That whether having a child born in Thailand ( not of thai nationality) would count towards eventually applying for permanent residence/ citizenship on humanitarian grounds. i.e. lower salary and tax requirement)

[samran]

Samran,

On your next trip to there, please don't forget to ask about my query as well. That whether having a child born in Thailand ( not of thai nationality) would count towards eventually applying for permanent residence/ citizenship on humanitarian grounds. i.e. lower salary and tax requirement)

On this one, while I'd love to help out, given that I am not 100% sure on your circumstances I suggest you call them. They''l likely ask you a lot of questions to determine your eligibility.

If you look at the end of each of the lists, there a bunch of phone numbers you can call. Try:

- 02 252 5961

- 02 205 2132

- 02 252 1714

- 02 252 2708

All the best with it!

[Arkady]

After reading the pdf files of rules for men applying thai citizenship. I read that if you are having a child in thailand, you can apply for citizenship on humanitarian basis ( i.e. 30,000/month salary rule) , but it doesn't state whether the child has to be thai citizenship or not. What in case of a foreign couple living together in thailand with children born here ? Hope Samran or another person with knowledge about it can shed some light.

If you were both permanent residents at the time of the birth of your child in Thailand, which may well be the case, if you are considering applying for citizenship, your child would be entitled to Thai citizenship. In that case the B30,000 a monthly salary rule should apply. Otherwise I very much doubt it, as the child would have no special status in Thailand or right to reside here independent of you. Applying with such a low salary, even though the regs allow it would probably not help your chances much, as they like to see that a fair bit of tax has been paid and don't want new citizens to immediately become a burden on the state. It's hard to get a work permit on B30,000 a month, unless you are a teacher. Anyway, as Samran says, they have very little to do, so it's best to go along and see them or call them up. I haven't applied yet but went to see them last year and found them pleasent and helpful. I am more bothered about the Interior Ministry which seems to be a lot more opaque.

[TheChiefJustice]

I am more bothered about the Interior Ministry which seems to be a lot more opaque.

Absolutely correct. The process with the Special Branch is very transparent. After your application goes to the MOI, the black hole commences. There are no rules as to how long it will take, what the procedures are etc. People find out from the experiences of others - all of which may be different.

[samran]

Thanks, Samran. The rules you posted are, in fact, the old rules. Did you specifically ask them about the 5 years on PR requirement? That rule did change. I have seen the resolution of the relevant MOI meeting that changed it. I know they still hand out the old rules sometimes becuase they have not yet been bothered to print out the new rules. My suspicion is that this is the case - unless, of course, you confirm that you specifically ASKED them about the 5 year PR requirement and they actuallt told you that it is still required. Very interested to hear your reply.

Chief Justice,

right, took my final witness down today, and asked about the 5 year thing.

The rules that I posted are the latest ones, and upon reading them, it doesn't appear you need to have the 5 years PR based on the posted rules. It is an either/or situation.

Rule 4 in the PDF I posted states that you need a "bai sumkan tin tii yuu" OR "a residency document" (loose translation). Upon asking, I was told that the "bai sumkan tin tii yuu" is a letter confirming residency issued by immigration.

As I understand it, people are issued these things regularly for things like getting a drivers license etc, but I can't be entirely sure if they are the same ones, nor do I know the qualifications needed for the issuance of said certificates.

So the point is, to have the 5 year clock ticking, as well as being on consecutive visas, tax returns etc etc etc you need to have this certificate issued by immigration at least 5 years previously, if you are not going the PR route.

So that is what I was told, but to be honest, the guy was less than sure, so it is worth anyone investigating this to double and triple check with special branch before they submit an application.

Anyway, as an aside, it turns out some special branch people called me two days ago and set up a meeting for my wife and I (it is my wife who is applying for citizenship based on marriage to me). Was asked to bring down many of the same documents we used for the application and we were asked many of the same questions again regarding how we met etc.

So as to keep it in a 'relaxed' surroundings, we were told to meet at KFC at Victory monument!! Anyway, the interview went off no worries, but they were keen to stress to me and my wife how to maximise the "points" out of 10 we'd get when she goes to the final interview infront of the 10 committee memebers (whenever that is). These include:

- have lots of good reasons why you wanted to be come a Thai citizen (ie more than just lessening the visa hassels). Say that you want to be able to work alot easier, say that you want to contribute the country, anything and everything.

- Salary: the more money, the better. If you have salary/income/assets outside of the country, let it be known. They want to be entirely certain that if anything goes wrong, you wont be a burden on the state. For me, that means you can have a nominally lower income here, if it is backed up by other things elsewhere.

- Thai language ability. My wife will have to go in by herself to inteview with the 10 committee members by herself, so there is a need ultimately to communicate all of the above that I've talked about!

Anyway, next step is the black hole of the MOI where our application goes. BUT, from what I saw they a processing quite a few applications at the moment.

We were one of 10 people being interviewed at KFC today, and they indicated that there they are quite busy at the moment.

[TheChiefJustice]

Hi Samran,

The file that you attached is issued by the Special Branch as a "guide" to applicants for citizenship. It is not the Interior Ministry regulation. What you have attached may be the current "guide" that is distributed but paragraph 4 does not reflect the new interior ministry rule which came into effect in April/May 2007. PR is a prerequisite. Holding PR for 5 years is not. What you need is to have PR and 5 years of continuous visas. It does not help that the Special Branch talk about residency letters from the embassy etc., none of which are relevant.

I will not be posting again on citizenship as I feel that with all the different views being posted the matter is now as unclear as ever.

[TheChiefJustice]

Also, for your wife, the best reason for wanting to be Thai is that you want all of the rights afforded to Thai persons - such as land ownership, the right to vote, the right to work without restriction, etc. I was once interviewed by the Thai equivalent of the FBI. They asked me why I wanted citizenship when I already had PR and, therefore, the right to remain indefinitely. I gave what I thought was a good answer - this is my home, wanted to feel secure, loved the HRH The King, etc. THey said that this was a poor answer and that when I interview with the MOI I should say that I want all the same rights as those given to a Thai.

[majenta]

Hi Samran,

I've been trying to find out the process of foreign woman married to a male Thai National and your post was very helpful. Just

a few more questions:

1. Where did you get the application forms?

2. How long does the foreign wife have to live in Thailand before applying?

3. Does the foreign wife need to be earning money while living in Thailand?

4. Whats a yellow/blue Tabieen baan?

5. Wifes PP?

Sorry about the extensive questions but I've been searching through this site about foreign women married to Thai nationals

and am thoroughly confused on the process and want to find out who has actually been through this process.

Your help will be much appreciated.

[Boo]

Hi Majenta

please check out he ladies seciton as this has been covered there somewhat too;

But to give some response to your questions to samran (and he will correct me if I am wrong or haven't given full answer, I'm sure;

1) I beleive Police headquarters in bankgkok are the main place

2) 3 years

3) No, but if not, husband must show income of 15k per month with applicable tax returns

4) A house document showing that you live there, foreign nationals can only have a yellow one.

4) Passport

[samran]

Hi Samran,

I've been trying to find out the process of foreign woman married to a male Thai National and your post was very helpful. Just

a few more questions:

1. Where did you get the application forms?

2. How long does the foreign wife have to live in Thailand before applying?

3. Does the foreign wife need to be earning money while living in Thailand?

4. Whats a yellow/blue Tabieen baan?

5. Wifes PP?

Sorry about the extensive questions but I've been searching through this site about foreign women married to Thai nationals

and am thoroughly confused on the process and want to find out who has actually been through this process.

Your help will be much appreciated.

1) No application form - if you want an instruction sheet, you get if from special branch, or otherwise, just use the one which I posted. Best to go down first though and chat to them to see what you need to show in your individual circumstances. They are quite helpful. Once you have gathered all the required information, you bring it in and they fill in the paperwork.

2) No set minimums of living in Thailand. You have to have been married 3 years though if you do not have a child. One year if you have a child together.

3) No. If you say you have though, it doesn't hurt. If you are currenly working, I'd assume you'd have to show the correct work permits etc.

4) Blue tabieen baan is the house registration that every Thai citizen or permanent resident is on. The yellow one, as boo says, is for foreginers.

5) Passport. (and BC is birth certificate).

[majenta]

Hi Samran,

I've been trying to find out the process of foreign woman married to a male Thai National and your post was very helpful. Just

a few more questions:

1. Where did you get the application forms?

2. How long does the foreign wife have to live in Thailand before applying?

3. Does the foreign wife need to be earning money while living in Thailand?

4. Whats a yellow/blue Tabieen baan?

5. Wifes PP?

Sorry about the extensive questions but I've been searching through this site about foreign women married to Thai nationals

and am thoroughly confused on the process and want to find out who has actually been through this process.

Your help will be much appreciated.

1) No application form - if you want an instruction sheet, you get if from special branch, or otherwise, just use the one which I posted. Best to go down first though and chat to them to see what you need to show in your individual circumstances. They are quite helpful. Once you have gathered all the required information, you bring it in and they fill in the paperwork.

2) No set minimums of living in Thailand. You have to have been married 3 years though if you do not have a child. One year if you have a child together.

3) No. If you say you have though, it doesn't hurt. If you are currenly working, I'd assume you'd have to show the correct work permits etc.

4) Blue tabieen baan is the house registration that every Thai citizen or permanent resident is on. The yellow one, as boo says, is for foreginers.

5) Passport. (and BC is birth certificate).

Thanks Samran/Boo,

Just came back from the Police Headquarters on Rama 1, and they gave me the instruction sheet for my husband to have a look at.

As my Thai is not strong enough yet (they pointed this out to me) we couldn't discuss much, but I found them to

be quite pleasant. I think I fit all the set criteria but need to check out in getting the yellow book.

I did have a look in the ladies forum but the information there seems scatterred, wasn't sure about the part about having to live in Thailand

for 3 consecutive years before applying...it seems the criteria is different for men and women.

[dbrenn]

Much different process for women! You ladies have it so easy

[Boo]

Samran or anyone who may know for that matter

Can I get a yellow tabien baan registered at my mother in laws house & even when living in UK?

[samran]

Samran or anyone who may know for that matter

Can I get a yellow tabien baan registered at my mother in laws house & even when living in UK?

you have to be in Thailand to apply for it.

From memeory you'll need a translated and authenticated copy of your PP and BC. You'll also need to be there at the ampur.

If your wedding certificate is in English, then you'll need to translate that, as well as getting a 'family certificate' from the ampur.

[Boo]

Cool, might see about doing that next visit over, in prep for my application. Wedding cert is in thai so thats no prob & can ask mil to inquire about the family cert prior to arrival.

Cheers

[Goinghomesoon]

I'm coming up on my 3 years in Thailand so hubby & I started getting our papers together for my citizenship app.

However we've been absolutely stone-walled at the Amphur trying to get a yellow tabian baan. The Amphur staff said my visa class makes me ineligible. According to them I need to enter Thailand on a visa based on marriage. I am currently on a company visa because I my employer transferred me to work here.

There aren't too many cases of farang women with Thai husbands in our country Isaan Amphur, so I'm inclined to think they gave me the 'easy answer' rather than the 'correct answer'. There was no consultation of any regulations and the woman at the desk just stared at hubby disdainfully and waved him away when he asked if she could double-check with her superior.

Unfortunately our district office is small with only a handful of staff. So we aren't likely to see anyone different if we go back and try again... where the heck can we go to check this info?

P.S. Although the original posts in this thread were about men applying for PR/citizenship, this thread is invaluable for women married to Thai men & researching Thai citizenship as the whole system works differently for us. Wonder if the mods would consider renaming this thread something like 'Thai citizenship info for western women married to Thai man' and pinning it at the top of the forum?

Edited October 18, 2009 by Goinghomesoon

[Maestro]

...

P.S. Although the original posts in this thread were about men applying for PR/citizenship, this thread is invaluable for women married to Thai men & researching Thai citizenship as the whole system works differently for us. Wonder if the mods would consider renaming this thread something like 'Thai citizenship info for western women married to Thai man' and pinning it at the top of the forum?

1. Too many pinned topics make it necessary to scroll down a long way until one arrives at the top of the list of new posts. We want to avoid this in the forum "Thai visas, residency and work permits"

2. This topic was started as one man’s story of his citizenship application. If you want to start a new topic about the story of your own – a woman’s – application, please feel free to do so.

--

Maestro

[Goinghomesoon]

Thanks - if I ever actually get to lodge the application I may just do that. Although I think what Samran has already written about his wife's application in this thread is so informative and comprehensive I don't know if I'll have anything to add

[Nip]

Not sure why you chose to go through all this humiliation ! But you obviously had your reasons !

If you are from Africa or the Indian Sub-Continent or such, then Thai citizenship may be regarded as useful.

But you kept schtuum on this.

But otherwise ... Why bother ?

1. You can buy land ... Ok.

2. You can drive a Tuk Tuk ... Yea Ok I guess.

3. Entry to the Grand Palace ... Ok if you go every weekend.

4. You can own a business ... Mmmm.

5. No comment.

6. So Bt 1,900 a year is a problem for you ?

7.

8. Ok.

9. Sounds like you are on the Lam.

10. Why would you want to vote ?.

Naka.

Sour grapes indeed.

Well done, not least for retaining a sense of humour in negotiating the bureaucracy.I'm sure you are a deservedly happy man.

I second that emotion! Grapes well soured! Well done.

[JayJayB]

I am an American and also made it through the process - a LONG process and if you don't speak and read Thai well essentially an almost impossible process...but I do ...and I passed.

The interesting issue is that twice at the BKK airport I have been asked whether I still have a US passport.....as if dual nationality is still an issue in Thailand...which it should not be. Anyway, I always reply 'no' as I use my thai passport for all travel around SE asia - but it might be a problem if I get asked this question when I travel to the US or Europe.

I was never asked to give up the US citizenship in the entire process - and my research on this site and others indicates there is nothing illegal in holding dual Thai and US citizenship.

[RAZZELL]

I am an American and also made it through the process - a LONG process and if you don't speak and read Thai well essentially an almost impossible process...but I do ...and I passed.

The interesting issue is that twice at the BKK airport I have been asked whether I still have a US passport.....as if dual nationality is still an issue in Thailand...which it should not be. Anyway, I always reply 'no' as I use my thai passport for all travel around SE asia - but it might be a problem if I get asked this question when I travel to the US or Europe.

I was never asked to give up the US citizenship in the entire process - and my research on this site and others indicates there is nothing illegal in holding dual Thai and US citizenship.

I'd really like to hear your story

Motive for applying, hurdles and obstacles, benefits, how long did it take etc ect?

RAZZ

Edited December 6, 2009 by RAZZELL

[lopburi3]

You are aware of the requirement to enter/leave the US on your US passport I hope. Other than that there is no problem holding more than one citizenship/passport for US. It is a case of although nothing specifically allows it nothing disallows it either.

[MacWalen]

My question is what if you said that you do have two passports! What would the immigration do? Also if you leave the country and they ask you where you go, you say you go to US and they ask you where is a US visa in your Thai passport? It is not hard to find out that you still hold two passports. If they do find out will they take your Thai passport away? What is the possible outcome?

[MacWalen]

Hi guys, anybody knows the answer to questions in the post above?