heart surgery

[The Fugitive]

5 hours ago, mrbilly said:

The hospital treating me is the No.1 heart specialist in this country,the surgeon who assessed me is a professor,the head of the surgery. In the medical profession over here it would be highly unlikely any surgeon would take this on,in the event during the operation if anything went wrong ,that doctors career would be over.Thai doctors ,i think would preform this surgery ,provided i accepted the risks and paid up front. i have a Thai wife and family and have lived over there for 3 years,i had intended to retire there only this happened as well as Covid so things have been difficult

I'm sure you'll get sorted for the best in Thailand Mrbilly! Many people think U.K. National Health Service is fantastic. The only fantastic thing about it is that it's totally free for everyone. When I pass I want to go under Thai care. I've seen the dying suffering in a U.K. hospital due to lack of pain relief and sedation because of insufficient and untrained staff.    

[ivor bigun]

I had a triple by pass in Britain ,34 yrs ago , told it would more than likely last 8 yrs , well i am lucky they were wrong on my account  last year had a minor heart attack here in Thailand ,taken to Chonburi heart hospital(govt) very good ,not expensive ,but you really need a Thai speaker ,next couple of months had an angiogram to see if i needed by pass or stents , cost 15000 baht plus 3 nights stay ,not expensive ,told i was not suitable for stents ,high risk for by pass ,now on meds ,(they reckon you live just as long ,but cant do as much as with by pass or stents) at this time i am doing good ,but cant do as much as i used to ,the Hospital and doctors (from major private hospitals are really good.its a teaching govt hospital.

ps my 6 different meds cost not a lot compared to outside Chemists.

I know its a long way from your home ,but they were as good as the NHS in Britain ,not counting its not as "posh" on the wards.

pm me if you want further advice.

best of luck .

[Sheryl]

8 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

I had a triple by pass in Britain ,34 yrs ago , told it would more than likely last 8 yrs , well i am lucky they were wrong on my account  last year had a minor heart attack here in Thailand ,taken to Chonburi heart hospital(govt) very good ,not expensive ,but you really need a Thai speaker ,next couple of months had an angiogram to see if i needed by pass or stents , cost 15000 baht plus 3 nights stay ,not expensive ,told i was not suitable for stents ,high risk for by pass ,now on meds ,(they reckon you live just as long ,but cant do as much as with by pass or stents) at this time i am doing good ,but cant do as much as i used to ,the Hospital and doctors (from major private hospitals are really good.its a teaching govt hospital.

ps my 6 different meds cost not a lot compared to outside Chemists.

I know its a long way from your home ,but they were as good as the NHS in Britain ,not counting its not as "posh" on the wards.

pm me if you want further advice.

best of luck .

 

Chonmburi is a regional hospital, KKU is a higher level and costs the same. Hardly makes sense for someone living in Issan to travel to Chonburi.

 

By the way Chonburi Hospital is typical of govt regional hospitals of which there are a number  in Thailand. No reason for people living in other regions to travel there when they can access equivalent facility closer to home For those in Pattaya area of course it is a good choice.

[ivor bigun]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Chonmburi is a regional hospital, KKU is a higher level and costs the same. Hardly makes sense for someone living in Issan to travel to Chonburi.

 

By the way Chonburi Hospital is typical of govt regional hospitals of which there are a number  in Thailand. No reason for people living in other regions to travel there when they can access equivalent facility closer to home For those in Pattaya area of course it is a good choice.

I was just replying to the OP he does not have to follow it up ,i was just telling him my experience ,also the Fact that Chonburi seems to charge far less than other places ,perhaps its because so very few Falangs use it .  I am actually registered with all govt hospitals in the Pattaya area and private ,Pattaya Banglamung was awful Queen Sirakit in Satahip is good ,although not the place to go for the heart ,Samitivit in Sri Racha and Bangkok Pattaya just want your cash, nice private rooms(very expensive) though ????

[VocalNeal]

On 4/15/2021 at 4:51 PM, mrbilly said:

yeah, thanks

 

Bypass surgery 200,000. Quadruple. 

Edited April 18, 2021 by VocalNeal

[sirineou]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:59 PM, easydoor said:

Best place to ask a question as this is in a hospital. When I have a problem with my car I don't ask about the repair price in a bakery or at the butcher around the corner.

yes, but you might learn something, if you asked others who had their car repaired.

Don't you think? 

[siamike]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:43 PM, starky said:

So will he be able to have that done in Khon Kaen ya reckon ?

If I were looking at the choice between having my chest opened, my ribs broken apart to gain access to perform open heart surgery, vs a simple injection, I would most certainly be willing to fly to a different country to get that injection;  wouldn't you?   Given the OP's unique circumstances and the Dr.'s reluctance to perform a traditional bypass operation, a clinical trial with an experimental drug may be his best/only option.  As I previously stated, it's certainly an option worth looking into.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, siamike said:

If I were looking at the choice between having my chest opened, my ribs broken apart to gain access to perform open heart surgery, vs a simple injection, I would most certainly be willing to fly to a different country to get that injection;  wouldn't you?   Given the OP's unique circumstances and the Dr.'s reluctance to perform a traditional bypass operation, a clinical trial with an experimental drug may be his best/only option.  As I previously stated, it's certainly an option worth looking into.

There are no "simple injections" thst unblock coronary arteries, experimental or otherwise.

[polpott]

Just now, Sheryl said:

There are no "simple injections" thst unblock coronary arteries, experimental or otherwise.

I know its not the case but angioplasty felt like a simple injection. I transformed from "the living dead" to "Where are my clothes and my BLT" within minutes.

[siamike]

On 4/19/2021 at 11:10 AM, Sheryl said:

There are no "simple injections" that unblock coronary arteries, experimental or otherwise.

According to research published in Nature Nanotechnology, your statement is incorrect.

You should read the article I posted the link to earlier:    

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200128114720.htm

 

A few excerpts from the article: 

 

Michigan State University and Stanford University scientists have invented a nanoparticle that eats away -- from the inside out -- portions of plaques that cause heart attacks.

 

Injected nanoparticle home in on atherosclerotic plaque due to its high selectivity to a particular immune cell type -- monocytes and macrophages. Once inside the macrophages in those plaques, it delivers a drug agent that stimulates the cell to engulf and eat cellular debris. Basically, it removes the diseased/dead cells in the plaque core. By reinvigorating the macrophages, plaque size is reduced and stabilized.

 

 future clinical trials on the nanoparticle are expected to reduce the risk of most types of heart attacks, with minimal side effects due to the unprecedented selectivity of the nanodrug.

[Sheryl]

49 minutes ago, siamike said:

According to research published in Nature Nanotechnology, your statement is incorrect.

You should read the article I posted the link to earlier:    

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200128114720.htm

 

A few excerpts from the article: 

 

Michigan State University and Stanford University scientists have invented a nanoparticle that eats away -- from the inside out -- portions of plaques that cause heart attacks.

 

Injected nanoparticle home in on atherosclerotic plaque due to its high selectivity to a particular immune cell type -- monocytes and macrophages. Once inside the macrophages in those plaques, it delivers a drug agent that stimulates the cell to engulf and eat cellular debris. Basically, it removes the diseased/dead cells in the plaque core. By reinvigorating the macrophages, plaque size is reduced and stabilized.

 

 future clinical trials on the nanoparticle are expected to reduce the risk of most types of heart attacks, with minimal side effects due to the unprecedented selectivity of the nanodrug.

 

This s still in very early experimental stages and not available as a treatment. There are no available treatments whereby a simple injection unblocks the arteries.

[siamike]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

This s still in very early experimental stages and not available as a treatment. There are no available treatments whereby a simple injection unblocks the arteries.

 

As the Nanotechnology article makes quite clear, there is indeed a treatment whereby a simple injection unblocks arteries, it's simply not yet generally available.   I've made it quite clear in all my postings that this drug is still in the early stages of development, and that interested parties should do their research.  Doctors and research labs will occasionally grant humanitarian use of experimental drugs when the patient has no other alternative; with 95% blockage, allergies to metals used in medical equipment, and his own doctors unwillingness to perform a traditional bypass, the OP may be granted humanitarian access.  The OP has nothing to lose by making inquiries and requests for humanitarian use. 

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, siamike said:

 

As the Nanotechnology article makes quite clear, there is indeed a treatment whereby a simple injection unblocks arteries, it's simply not yet generally available.   I've made it quite clear in all my postings that this drug is still in the early stages of development, and that interested parties should do their research.  Doctors and research labs will occasionally grant humanitarian use of experimental drugs when the patient has no other alternative; with 95% blockage, allergies to metals used in medical equipment, and his own doctors unwillingness to perform a traditional bypass, the OP may be granted humanitarian access.  The OP has nothing to lose by making inquiries and requests for humanitarian use. 

 

This is not available outside of a research setting and for good reason.

[polpott]

On 4/16/2021 at 3:06 AM, The Fugitive said:

I'm sure you'll get sorted for the best in Thailand Mrbilly! Many people think U.K. National Health Service is fantastic. The only fantastic thing about it is that it's totally free for everyone. When I pass I want to go under Thai care. I've seen the dying suffering in a U.K. hospital due to lack of pain relief and sedation because of insufficient and untrained staff.    

Dream on. I have had extensive treatment in UK hospitals, the best in the world.

 

I recently had my appendix removed in BPH. Had a follow up appointment, a couple of weeks later. Without my knowledge, it was with a a cardiologist. His only words to me were, "You have big heart". My reply, "Thanks pal, if its OK with you, I'll fly back to UK and see a proper doctor". They gave me a CD of my ECG and Echo Cardiogram, which I sent to my daughter and her husband in the UK, a senior nursing sister and consultant, both in A&E.

 

They informed me that I had heart failure and advised me to return to the UK a.s.a.p.

 

Arrived Friday, had my first vaccination Saturday and will see my GP on Monday.

 

Your insinuations are not only untrue but a gross insult to the many thousands of NHS workers in the UK who have done a simply amazing job throughout the pandemic.

 

My advice to you, stay in Thailand and be happy to receive grossly inferior, nay amateurish, treatment here in Thailand.

[The Fugitive]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Dream on. I have had extensive treatment in UK hospitals, the best in the world.

 

I recently had my appendix removed in BPH. Had a follow up appointment, a couple of weeks later. Without my knowledge, it was with a a cardiologist. His only words to me were, "You have big heart". My reply, "Thanks pal, if its OK with you, I'll fly back to UK and see a proper doctor". They gave me a CD of my ECG and Echo Cardiogram, which I sent to my daughter and her husband in the UK, a senior nursing sister and consultant, both in A&E.

 

They informed me that I had heart failure and advised me to return to the UK a.s.a.p.

 

Arrived Friday, had my first vaccination Saturday and will see my GP on Monday.

 

Your insinuations are not only untrue but a gross insult to the many thousands of NHS workers in the UK who have done a simply amazing job throughout the pandemic.

 

My advice to you, stay in Thailand and be happy to receive grossly inferior, nay amateurish, treatment here in Thailand.

I accept what you say and am pleased you are receiving proper treatment in the U.K.  If a patients health cannot be improved any further they are no longer entitled to remain in hospital. Absolutely correct. Where things go wrong is that a terminally ill patient has to go into either a hospice or a nursing home. Only if they insist can they be discharged to their home. Unfortunately, there was no hospice nor nursing home places available when my Mother was dying of cancer. Local Council Social Services Dept refused to spend their budget to provide nursing at home so she died in the hospital. I saw a nurse trying to pour soluble paracetamol down her that was clogged up. This was a couple of hours before she died, no pain pump in-situ. A patient opposite had complained to the staff that my Mum was in pain. They told me it was due to being short staffed on the ward. In Thailand I've seen two local ladies brought home to die with sedation and pain relief in place. With permission I took photographs before and after passing for my future reference.  

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

I accept what you say and am pleased you are receiving proper treatment in the U.K.  If a patients health cannot be improved any further they are no longer entitled to remain in hospital. Absolutely correct. Where things go wrong is that a terminally ill patient has to go into either a hospice or a nursing home. Only if they insist can they be discharged to their home. Unfortunately, there was no hospice nor nursing home places available when my Mother was dying of cancer. Local Council Social Services Dept refused to spend their budget to provide nursing at home so she died in the hospital. I saw a nurse trying to pour soluble paracetamol down her that was clogged up. This was a couple of hours before she died, no pain pump in-situ. A patient opposite had complained to the staff that my Mum was in pain. They told me it was due to being short staffed on the ward. In Thailand I've seen two local ladies brought home to die with sedation and pain relief in place. With permission I took photographs before and after passing for my future reference.  

 

 

The example of the 2 ladies you saw not withstanding, palliiative care in Thailand is very poor and under-developed. In particular there are no -- and I mean NO - home hospice services.   If one wants to die at home it is strictly a DIY affair and quite challenging for the caretakers to say the least (and I have coached dozens through the process over my years on this board). The big problem comes when the patient is no longer able to take oral medications. But even before that, the caretakers are very much on their own. And expected to bring the patient back to the hospital for any and all needs they themselves cannot meet, even very easy simple things that a visiting  nurse could easily accomplish in the home. .

 

Terminally ill people can get oral pain killers to take home. No morphine drips, no pumps of the type used in the west. The very idea of parenteral analgesia in the home  setting is completely unknown here. Even with full time private duty nurses it is "cannot". Overall I would say Thailand is a good 30 - 40 years behind the west when it comes to palliative care.

 

Whereas the UK has excellent hospice services and, like pretty much all western countries, allows the use of powerful painkillers  in the home city in terminal cases (using locked, tamper-proof  pumps that deliver exact dosages and with periodic visits from a nurse). What happened with your Mum was very unfortunate but is not typical. (Hope you raised hell with the Council!)

[faraday]

@polpot

 

Sorry to hear about your health issues, & I hope you have a swift & successful recovery.????

 

Please update us.

 

 

Chok Dee & enjoy the rain. ????️

 

☺️

[siamike]

19 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

This is not available outside of a research setting and for good reason.

 

You should read this AMA article: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/expanded-access-investigational-drugs-what-physicians-and-public-need-know-about-fda-and-corporate/2015-12

Edited April 26, 2021 by siamike

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, siamike said:

 

You should read this AMA article: https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/expanded-access-investigational-drugs-what-physicians-and-public-need-know-about-fda-and-corporate/2015-12

 

I am well aware of  the process for gaining permission for compassionate use. It applies to drugs that are already developed and in use in clinical trials. It does not apply to the technology you are talking about which has not even been commercially manufactured yet and has not yet had a single clinical trial.

[actonion]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:02 PM, timendres said:

Friend had 3 stents at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya. 300,000 THB and kept overnight.

Thats cheap, i was quoted 600,000thb for a Cartoid Artery Stent  in 2019 by a Bangkok pattaya Surgeon who had done only 1  Cartoid Stent operation before ..I ended up  in Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok  with a surgeon with a lot more experience  and  same  price, a 2 night stay ...

[siamike]

40 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

I am well aware of  the process for gaining permission for compassionate use. It applies to drugs that are already developed and in use in clinical trials. It does not apply to the technology you are talking about which has not even been commercially manufactured yet and has not yet had a single clinical trial.

 

You're talk about the strict interpretation of how the law defines compassionate use, and I'm talking about what actually happens in some rare cases.  I personally know of such a case; a young man in his early 30's received a totally experimental radiation treatment for an inoperable brain carcinoma at Stanford U about 8 years ago.  Doctors advised him that this procedure had never been done before on someone's brain, the odds of success were very, very small, and there would likely be lose of brain function.  Without any treatments, my friend was facing certain death in under a month, so after signing a stack of release forms the totally experimental procedure was performed.   The radiation initially shrank the tumor but did not kill it and sadly my friend died a little over a month later. 

 

In rare, exceptional cases, Experimental, one-of-a-kind procedures are indeed performed.  This why I hope the OP will research the possibility of using Nanotechnology; he has nothing to lose by looking into it. 

[The Fugitive]

15 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

 

The example of the 2 ladies you saw not withstanding, palliiative care in Thailand is very poor and under-developed. In particular there are no -- and I mean NO - home hospice services.   If one wants to die at home it is strictly a DIY affair and quite challenging for the caretakers to say the least (and I have coached dozens through the process over my years on this board). The big problem comes when the patient is no longer able to take oral medications. But even before that, the caretakers are very much on their own. And expected to bring the patient back to the hospital for any and all needs they themselves cannot meet, even very easy simple things that a visiting  nurse could easily accomplish in the home. .

 

Terminally ill people can get oral pain killers to take home. No morphine drips, no pumps of the type used in the west. The very idea of parenteral analgesia in the home  setting is completely unknown here. Even with full time private duty nurses it is "cannot". Overall I would say Thailand is a good 30 - 40 years behind the west when it comes to palliative care.

 

Whereas the UK has excellent hospice services and, like pretty much all western countries, allows the use of powerful painkillers  in the home city in terminal cases (using locked, tamper-proof  pumps that deliver exact dosages and with periodic visits from a nurse). What happened with your Mum was very unfortunate but is not typical. (Hope you raised hell with the Council!)

Wow! Thanks for all that Sheryl. What happened with my Mum was back in 2013. I have since been advised by an ex-UK NHS nurse that UK hospices no longer provide end-of-life service. I thought that was their 'core' function? You may know that the UK NHS provide three fifteen minute visits per day to the dying at home. The local Council Social Workers based in hospitals assess social needs and can provide extra nursing care in addition to those three fifteen minute vists. Unfortunately, they don't like spending money and use all sorts of excuses to avoid providing supplemental home care. There is currently a review underway to bring home palliative nursing care under one agency (the NHS) to avoid the constant arguments. I should have complained at the time but was upset. It's clear to me what they did, one worker insisted my Mum didn't NEED extra social nursing, another told me she could have had it but had told them she didn't WANT it. I have spoken to others who were talked into allowing home palliative care. Even with five able-bodied family members to assist it was a 'nightmare'. Their emergency help turned out to be a mobile telephone number that went to voicemail. NHS staff have told me that once you agree to home palliative care you are basically 'stuffed'. I can now understand why people abandon their relatives in UK hospitals.

[polpott]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:24 AM, The Fugitive said:

I accept what you say and am pleased you are receiving proper treatment in the U.K.  If a patients health cannot be improved any further they are no longer entitled to remain in hospital. Absolutely correct. Where things go wrong is that a terminally ill patient has to go into either a hospice or a nursing home. Only if they insist can they be discharged to their home. Unfortunately, there was no hospice nor nursing home places available when my Mother was dying of cancer. Local Council Social Services Dept refused to spend their budget to provide nursing at home so she died in the hospital. I saw a nurse trying to pour soluble paracetamol down her that was clogged up. This was a couple of hours before she died, no pain pump in-situ. A patient opposite had complained to the staff that my Mum was in pain. They told me it was due to being short staffed on the ward. In Thailand I've seen two local ladies brought home to die with sedation and pain relief in place. With permission I took photographs before and after passing for my future reference.  

Sorry to hear about your Mother's treatment. The treatment of my mother was very different. She decided that she wanted to remain at home and had excellent care from the district nurse, her GP and McMillan nurses, who all contributed to pain management.

 

However, nearing the end, her pain management became more difficult as it needed reassessment almost hourly. She agreed to be admitted to a local hospice where she passed about a week later when relatives were called to her bedside and her Morphine pump was gradually increased until she passed.

[The Fugitive]

5 minutes ago, polpott said:

Sorry to hear about your Mother's treatment. The treatment of my mother was very different. She decided that she wanted to remain at home and had excellent care from the district nurse, her GP and McMillan nurses, who all contributed to pain management.

 

However, nearing the end, her pain management became more difficult as it needed reassessment almost hourly. She agreed to be admitted to a local hospice where she passed about a week later when relatives were called to her bedside and her Morphine pump was gradually increased until she passed.

Thanks for this. This is absolutely how end-of-life should be. Choices, service and availability. All went well for you and your Mother.

[ivor bigun]

On 4/26/2021 at 10:51 AM, actonion said:

Thats cheap, i was quoted 600,000thb for a Cartoid Artery Stent  in 2019 by a Bangkok pattaya Surgeon who had done only 1  Cartoid Stent operation before ..I ended up  in Bumrungrad hospital in Bangkok  with a surgeon with a lot more experience  and  same  price, a 2 night stay ...

I was quoted 35k per stent at Chonburi govt hospital ,and it was written down as was the cost of my angiogram 15k ,it was what i was charged ,everything i have been quoted there is what i was charged ,unfortunatly i was not suitable for the stents. this is in the last 6 months .

[Toolong]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:46 PM, starky said:

Would love to hear how you can get a stent in absence of any surgical procedure...

Maybe what they mean is that you don't go under with anaesthetic. Give you something to take the edge off but you lie there looking at what's happening in your body live on screen! Unless you look away like I did.

[covidiot]

Also, omega 3. They sell capsules. Omega 3 is good for the heart from my reading. I would consult a naturopath and ask about various supplements and make sure they don't interfere with any medical procedures or pharmaceutical drugs you need to take. 

[heybuz]

On 4/16/2021 at 5:47 AM, hgma said:

2015     4 bypass ,emergency issue, Sirikrit KK 15 day's hospital, 3 month's medication 560.000 bath 

Never felt the same (fatigue) 

Same here triple bypass been over 12months and now experience lack of energy.Used to walk 7ks a day now around 3 if that ,i give up sometimes trying.

 

 

[Sheryl]

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[mrbilly]

On 4/16/2021 at 4:06 AM, The Fugitive said:

I'm sure you'll get sorted for the best in Thailand Mrbilly! Many people think U.K. National Health Service is fantastic. The only fantastic thing about it is that it's totally free for everyone. When I pass I want to go under Thai care. I've seen the dying suffering in a U.K. hospital due to lack of pain relief and sedation because of insufficient and untrained staff.    

thanks for your reply,as soon as i can travel ,i will go back to Thailand,home from home,i miss it because i used to live there and came back because i wanted my son to get educated here,he goes to university next year.Anyway i will go to Khon Kaen and find out what my chances are .