Best car for under 4,000,000

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

11 hours ago, expatjustice said:

It is my personal opinion, that a person shouldn't spend more than 5% of their assets in a car (in technical terms to not spend more than you can afford). So someone who spends 4 Million on a car should have assets totaling at least 80 Million THB. I am quite sure this is the case for you, Pedro.

But a simple glance at any Thai road, will clearly proof that the majority of 4 Million cars you see around (BMW, Mercedes, etc...) are owned by people who have no other assets besides the 4 Mil THB car and even that is only possible thanks to credit.... That's where a 4 Million car becomes a problem.

In any other case, no matter how hard you try to put it and how good you claim a 500,000 THB car is. It cant ever compare to a 4 Million car, there is a reason why one is worth 4 million and the other 500,000, and no, it's not just the brand name, far more than that. More quality = More money. The same way a 15 Mill car is way better than a 4 Mil one.

I don't look down on someone who owns a Honda Jazz, but I do look down on whoever owns a brand new Mercedes and lives at a 5000 THB month studio, eating instant noodles while living a miserable life to pay for their car. That is being a total clown.

I kind of agree - but for me a car is a necessity and me and the wife are often out doing our own things, so 2 is a necessity.

Within that necessity, I like to have a bit of fun - but I wouldn't go into huge debt for a car or really want to worry about how I pay for it after I got it. That would take away a lot of the fun.

On the other hand, I could see why a real motor-head enthusiast might spend a lot more of their worth on a car than I would. A car restorer for instance.

What surprised me was when the BMW gal came round with paperwork for 50% financing on the Z4. I thought it was very presumptuous of her - we asked her to come and talk about deals on the cars that were currently in transit from Germany. She came with a finance deal that we didn't ask for. Then I saw the monthly payments - and it was 74k Baht. I wondered - who is it that can put down 2.5M on a car but needs to borrow the other 2.5M and CAN afford 75k a month in payments? I can't remember the exact deal - but it was thereabouts.

Then when I told her we wanted to pay in cash - she tried to make the discount disappear and at that point she was shown the door. She obviously came back later.

But to me - I was somewhat annoyed. I wanted to buy 1 thing. She tried to sell me 2 things. It's like going to buy a cinema ticket and them giving you popcorn you didn't ask for and expecting you to pay for it.

But yes - I did wonder who was buying 2-ish million down and 75k a month - you'd still have to be on a decent local salary - or a business person. Or maybe people can afford to buy them cash but prefer keeping the balance and paying off at 2.5% pa interest - which is less than you'd get in an index tracker right now.

It is a bit of a mystery.

canthai55 · April 28, 2021

If I wanted to spend 4 Mil on a car, I would never buy new.

Get something older, without too many the ECU's in it.

Lexus probably, with a V8. HP can be increased with no long term engine problems, interior is a step above anything offered new.

Plus you do not drive a cookie cutter car identical to many - have something unique.

Edited April 28, 2021 by canthai55

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

6 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

If I wanted to spend 4 Mil on a car, I would never buy new.

Get something older, without too many the ECU's in it.

Lexus probably, with a V8. HP can be increased with no long term engine problems, interior is a step above anything offered new.

Plus you do not drive a cookie cutter car identical to many - have something unique.

I would never buy a used car here. I had enough trouble with pre-owned women.

Excel · April 28, 2021

6 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

I would never buy a used car here. I had enough trouble with pre-owned women.

Now what you mean, and I have mentioned this in another thread, the service history on my 2nd wife was so long I think she had a continuation service record book and after two years the big ends were completely shot. ????

Edited April 28, 2021 by Excel

canthai55 · April 28, 2021

If you know nothing about cars you are at the mercy of the seller.

All cars I have owned - and still own - were bought second hand.

No issues - if you buy a good one. And know what that is.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

59 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

If you know nothing about cars you are at the mercy of the seller.

All cars I have owned - and still own - were bought second hand.

No issues - if you buy a good one. And know what that is.

A close friend of mine runs the 2nd hand car sales at a number of Ford dealers.

They will not touch non-Ford cars for the simple reason that their techs cannot assess them without the appropriate diagnostic equipment.

So - there's a bunch of mechanics at a company that only deals in cars - and they can't assess a 2nd hand Mazda, Toyota or Honda.

How do you do it? I'd be interested to know because so much is down to the diagnostics output now, right?

canthai55 · April 28, 2021

15 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

They will not touch non-Ford cars for the simple reason that their techs cannot assess them without the appropriate diagnostic equipment.

Because all they bought is Ford-specific diagnostic equipment.

Many companies sell all makes and models scan tools, many with scopes built in if that is required.

Have one myself, and works fine.

Problem is the newer cars have computer controlled everything - which is why I stated above that I would not buy new.

I tend to pick a car I like, and am able to modify as time goes on. This keeps the car interesting, as well as more powerful if that is what you want.

And no one says 'Oh look, another ... '

Sheryl · April 28, 2021

15 hours ago, pedro01 said:

But - not everybody considers 4 million "that much". Different people have different levels of disposable income. I would guess if we put it in terms of number of months savings - disposable income we don't spend, I likely spent fewer months savings on this car than you did on yours.

The issue is not necessarily disposable income. It is what one finds it worthwhile to spend it on.

There is literally nothing a car could do or have, short of the ability to enter a wormhole into a different (and better) dimension, that would make it worth more than 1 million baht to me. I could get a 100million cash windfall tomorrow, would still feel that way. And if someone gave me a 4 million car, no strings attached, I'd immediately sell it and use the money on other things.

Obviously you feel differently and that is fine, I was just trying to point out that there are plenty of less expensive cars that are very reliable.

Honestly can't imagine what it is that people feel is worth spending more on, car-wise, though.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The issue is not necessarily disposable income. It is what one finds it worthwhile to spend it on.

There is literally nothing a car could do or have, short of the ability to enter a wormhole into a different (and better) dimension, that would make it worth more than 1 million baht to me. I could get a 100million cash windfall tomorrow, would still feel that way. And if someone gave me a 4 million car, no strings attached, I'd immediately sell it and use the money on other things.

Obviously you feel differently and that is fine, I was just trying to point out that there are plenty of less expensive cars that are very reliable.

Honestly can't imagine what it is that people feel is worth spending more on, car-wise, though.

Yes there is a huge difference.

When you see a wedding procession - it's not a line of Honda Jazz, right? It's higher end, luxury cars where you feel like you are floating on air.

Drive a Honda Jazz on a 900km journey and the noise, ride will leave you extremely tired. Do the same in a 5 series, you will come out fresh as a daisy. It's extraordinary the first time you do it - it catches you totally by surprise.
See a car to the side of you lose control at 90km/h - and the Honda Jazz won't be able to accelerate away from it in the same way a 390HP AMG would. So performance does help you out of trouble occasionally.
Take a corner too fast in a Honda Jazz and it'll be on it's side. Do it in a BMW and it's called a power slide ????
Drive a Jazz, then a 3 or 5 series and you will notice how much more "solid" the latter feels. It's just a better quality vehicle. Like if you get a pair of Jeans - Levis tend to be better quality than 250 Baht knock-offs. Sure - you can still wear both on your legs but quality is a tangible element of any product.
The Jazz will buzz and vibrate at higher speeds and the BMW wont.
The sound systems between the vehicles isn't comparable.

There's a massive amount of difference between the a Honda Jazz and a luxury car - and you pay for that extra quality/service.

You can't imagine what is "worth spending more on" - yet other's don't even register the cost at all. That's the thing - it's all relative.

When the sum is not relevant, it comes down to one car delivering a far superior experience in terms of comfort and fun. To me, 10 million would be a bit steep - but there are cars with additional features or better performance than the one I ordered that I would buy if 10 million was in my sweet spot.

I have been through this myself - seeing things I think are "madness" to spend money on - and then 5 years later that sum is of so little significance, it's not a thought. That's what this is about - wrapping your head around that. Once you go through a few things like that - you can accept that YES, there may be some level of wealth I could achieve where buying a 150ft Yacht would make sense. I am not there yet and probably won't be - but I no longer see it as madness or nonsense.

It's a point at which you are no longer going on line to tell people why you'd never buy stuff you can't currently afford anyway.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

54 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Because all they bought is Ford-specific diagnostic equipment.

Many companies sell all makes and models scan tools, many with scopes built in if that is required.

Have one myself, and works fine.

Problem is the newer cars have computer controlled everything - which is why I stated above that I would not buy new.

I tend to pick a car I like, and am able to modify as time goes on. This keeps the car interesting, as well as more powerful if that is what you want.

And no one says 'Oh look, another ... '

OK understood & next time you have a spare Mustang or Camaro - let me know!!!

newnative · April 28, 2021

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The issue is not necessarily disposable income. It is what one finds it worthwhile to spend it on.

There is literally nothing a car could do or have, short of the ability to enter a wormhole into a different (and better) dimension, that would make it worth more than 1 million baht to me. I could get a 100million cash windfall tomorrow, would still feel that way. And if someone gave me a 4 million car, no strings attached, I'd immediately sell it and use the money on other things.

Obviously you feel differently and that is fine, I was just trying to point out that there are plenty of less expensive cars that are very reliable.

Honestly can't imagine what it is that people feel is worth spending more on, car-wise, though.

I liked your post. And, I've enjoyed this thread. Every now and then my partner and I chit chat about maybe switching from our Honda CR-V to a Mercedes or BMW suv. Or, maybe one of the Audi Qs. We always end up much like you--well, if it did something radically different to justify the extra price, like having the ability to fly when we are in a traffic jam, then maybe we would consider it.

But, so far they don't fly when needed so we are content with the Honda. We sometimes do property renovations and we are always buying big stuff--which the CR-V easily swallows up. We like the comfort, the size, and the ability to squeeze in an extra passenger in the third row now and then if we're not going too far. Suits us perfectly for our needs.

Like you, we would rather spend the money we saved on something else that interests us more. Although I've been a car buff all my life, I can admire this model or that model from afar--I don't need to own it. But, I'm also in the 'you only go around once' camp and if a certain car model floats your boat--I say go for it.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

30 minutes ago, newnative said:

I liked your post. And, I've enjoyed this thread. Every now and then my partner and I chit chat about maybe switching from our Honda CR-V to a Mercedes or BMW suv. Or, maybe one of the Audi Qs. We always end up much like you--well, if it did something radically different to justify the extra price, like having the ability to fly when we are in a traffic jam, then maybe we would consider it.

But, so far they don't fly when needed so we are content with the Honda. We sometimes do property renovations and we are always buying big stuff--which the CR-V easily swallows up. We like the comfort, the size, and the ability to squeeze in an extra passenger in the third row now and then if we're not going too far. Suits us perfectly for our needs.

Like you, we would rather spend the money we saved on something else that interests us more. Although I've been a car buff all my life, I can admire this model or that model from afar--I don't need to own it. But, I'm also in the 'you only go around once' camp and if a certain car model floats your boat--I say go for it.

OK - and that is the crux. For you - it's a choice between this and that. You get the German car, there's something else you don't get. You have to discuss it, toss it around, think about the trade off.

For others - they are calling their financial advisors to get help with their cash problem - because they are over FDIC guarantee limits (and similar) in their cash accounts in the jurisdictions they bank in.

When you are relieved to see $150k less cash in your current account - it's a different set of problems you are solving.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

BTW - despite the insinuations I got by PM, I would like to clarify.

1 - My wife's car has 5hp less than mine on paper

2 - My wife's car may be faster than mine

3 - My wife's car may be flashier than mine

But no - despite rumors - my wife does not have a bigger d**k than me.

Jeez - some people

Excel · April 28, 2021

6 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

BTW - despite the insinuations I got by PM, I would like to clarify.

1 - My wife's car has 5hp less than mine on paper

2 - My wife's car may be faster than mine

3 - My wife's car may be flashier than mine

But no - despite rumors - my wife does not have a bigger d**k than me.

Jeez - some people

Its a sad world really when people resort to that. A long time ago in former life I had an SL 500, driving thro' London with my then new Thai wife, some tosser ran up to the car and sprayed pepper spray in, luckily missing her face . The profanity he yelled at her insinuating what she would do for a ride in a crooks car was disgusting. It was my own car at the time which I kept in storage and only used on my returns to the UK. After that, never ever put the top down in the UK and 1 year later just sold it. Now in Thailand I have never encountered such jealousy or envy and like Italian people tend to admire a good car possibly hoping one day they can aspire to one. But as you have just experienced the jealous and envious lurk behind the anonymity of forums so often . Total jerks, don't be troubled by them.

newnative · April 28, 2021

7 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

OK - and that is the crux. For you - it's a choice between this and that. You get the German car, there's something else you don't get. You have to discuss it, toss it around, think about the trade off.

For others - they are calling their financial advisors to get help with their cash problem - because they are over FDIC guarantee limits (and similar) in their cash accounts in the jurisdictions they bank in.

When you are relieved to see $150k less cash in your current account - it's a different set of problems you are solving.

You may have misread my post a bit. It's not a choice for us between buying 'this' and then not being able to buy 'that'. That's not the point. We could afford a Mercedes or a BMW suv--and not deprive ourselves of whatever else we might want. Having looked at them, we didn't see anything special that would justify spending the extra money and get us out of our CR-V.

As I said in my post, if they did something really special that might change our thinking. So far, they don't. (We'll be first in line to buy one if it can briefly fly over traffic jams.) However, if we were looking for a sports car or a luxury coupe it might be a different story. But, we need a big, roomy, flexible, comfortable, reliable suv that can seat 6 or 7 in a pinch. The CR-V suits. Congratulations on your car purchase--I hope it arrives safely.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

7 minutes ago, Excel said:

Its a sad world really when people resort to that. A long time ago in former life I had an SL 500, driving thro' London with my then new Thai wife, some tosser ran up to the car and sprayed pepper spray in, luckily missing her face . The profanity he yelled at her insinuating what she would do for a ride in a crooks car was disgusting. It was my own car at the time which I kept in storage and only used on my returns to the UK. After that, never ever put the top down in the UK and 1 year later just sold it. Now in Thailand I have never encountered such jealousy or envy and like Italian people tend to admire a good car possibly hoping one day they can aspire to one. But as you have just experienced the jealous and envious lurk behind the anonymity of forums so often . Total jerks, don't be troubled by them.

Jeez - That is insane.

I mean - it's a bloody great story to have, especially as he missed her and true stories are great at parties and stuff - but that's some unhinged MOFO there.

Sadly, I have to report that my story was not true. Nobody PM'd me about my wife's d**k and I can confirm that it is in fact about an inch smaller than mine.

Edited April 28, 2021 by pedro01

Excel · April 28, 2021

Just now, pedro01 said:

Jeez - That is insane.

I mean - it's a bloody great story to have, especially as he missed her and true stories are great at parties and stuff - but that's some unhinged MOFO there.

And just to enlighten you as to how good the Metropolitan police are in London when we reported it, they didn't want to know. By that time I had already been living in Thailand almost 20 years and glad of it at the time. 18 years later I still have no regrets. keys down the side of cars was a favourite past time also there, the worst I have had here was an errant shopping trolleys for which the "pusher" became embarrassingly apologetic bless her. Anyway as I said that was in another life, now just retired for years ,with a run of the mill car that gets me from A to B. Good luck with your new choice.

pedro01 · April 28, 2021

8 minutes ago, Excel said:

And just to enlighten you as to how good the Metropolitan police are in London when we reported it, they didn't want to know. By that time I had already been living in Thailand almost 20 years and glad of it at the time. 18 years later I still have no regrets. keys down the side of cars was a favourite past time also there, the worst I have had here was an errant shopping trolleys for which the "pusher" became embarrassingly apologetic bless her. Anyway as I said that was in another life, now just retired for years ,with a run of the mill car that gets me from A to B. Good luck with your new choice.

It's no shock with the police in London.

BUT - as a fellow Brit - isn't it odd how car crime differs here? I'm not saying it doesn't exist but since I've been here (22 years), I don't know anyone that

- Had their car broken into

- Had their car keyed/scratched

- Had their car stolen

Yet - I don't know anyone in the UK that hasn't been a victim to one of these crimes.

It's an interesting dynamic. A poorer country with a specific type of crime that is not tapped.

Edited April 28, 2021 by pedro01

Excel · April 28, 2021

3 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

It's no shock with the police in London.

BUT - as a fellow Brit - isn't it odd how car crime differs here. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but since I've been here (22 years), I don't know anyone that

- Had their car broken into

- Had their car keyed/scratched

- Had their car stolen

Yet - I don't know anyone in the UK that hasn't been a victim to one of these crimes.

It's an interesting dynamic. A poorer country with a specific type of crime that is not tapped.

Well that is true ad also if they only understood that they could keep the builders merchants busy selling bricks to put under the axles, needed whilst they nick the wheels, then they could become as famous as Liverpudlians perhaps ????

pedro01 · April 29, 2021

On 4/27/2021 at 10:02 PM, expatjustice said:

Exactly the CLA45S although it is an AWD it has this drift mode thingy which allows for 100% of the engine power going to the rear wheels to go into only one of the rear wheels. It is extremely fun to sit in that car while they are drifting it.

And the pull that car makes at 500hp is insane, you can hardly believe it.

Anyway I’ll still be dreaming of the E420 CDI. Nothing can compare to diesel’s torque!

The diesels torque? You mean it's ability to pull a caravan?

I never understood this - diesels are slower that gasoline engines. I have never been in a diesel that I thought "wow - how fast" - what's so good about torque that I am missing out on?

pedro01 · April 29, 2021

Wife's old car is now departed.

She get's sentimental about this stuff.... it was a fun little "hot hatch" - one of the few 2.0 liter small cars on the market. But at it's size and weight - a bit too much power to the front wheels.

Edited April 29, 2021 by pedro01

expatjustice · April 29, 2021

1 hour ago, pedro01 said:

The diesels torque? You mean it's ability to pull a caravan?

I never understood this - diesels are slower that gasoline engines. I have never been in a diesel that I thought "wow - how fast" - what's so good about torque that I am missing out on?

Nope, diesels are much faster than gasolines. Because they output much more torque than a gasoline with the same horsepower and furthermore they make the torque at lower rpms.

Example, your 390HP C43 AMG makes 520Nm of torque, however my E320 CDI when stock at 221 HP it makes an astonishing 540Nm.

Now, why there are essentially no diesel supercars...?

Basic high school physics

f (force) = m (mass) * a (acceleration)

From which we can isolate the variable acceleration and we get the typical

a (acceleration) = f (force) / m (mass)

So it is clear now that the acceleration of a car depends on the variable F. What is this variable? Essentially torque. But pay attention here because it is not torque measured at the engine's flywheel it is torque measured at the wheels of the car.

And as we all know, torque at the wheels depends on the gearbox, not the engine. And this is the reason why virtually no diesel supercar exists; there would be no gearbox capable of withstanding the enormous amount of force a diesel engine designed to the specs of a supercar would pull.

Audi tried this in the early 2010s with the Audi R8 V12 TDI with a diesel engine capable of producing 590 hp and over 1000Nm of torque. But this car was just a concept, and you couldn't floor it, because by flooring it those 1000Nm of torque would make the gearbox explode!!! Essentially there was and there is no gearbox capable of handling that much torque. That's why there is no diesel supercars.

Still, you should ride in a Porsche Panamera 4S Diesel which manages to pull 0-60mph in 3.8 seconds despite only having 410 horsepower, of course outputting 810Nm of torque, and all of this despite the car weighing 2.2 tons. That car for sure would have you thinking "Wow - how fast".

And let's not forget these mythical diesel "Pick-up trucks" on stereoids which manage to beat supercars such as lambos by a lot...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeZ-frqxipQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsdaEFuZH7Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai3iUHnWAdE

(Yes those trucks probably need a new gearbox every week, lol)

Edited April 29, 2021 by expatjustice

canthai55 · April 29, 2021

The equation to calculate horsepower is simple: Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252

ExpatOilWorker · April 29, 2021

On 4/23/2021 at 6:47 PM, pedro01 said:

Lass from BMW is here right now.

She came and left because the white fella wasn't very Thai about it and stood firm on the discount. She said any more discount was impossible. I told her that was <deleted>. lol. The wife apologized to her on the way out. I asked why she apologized. She told me "well, she came all the way out here for nothing". I told her this wasn't over - they knew the deal we wanted, and they'd be back if they wanted the sale.

So she left because she couldn't possibly give more discount. Then she came back 30 mins later with my discount approved and the wife got a large dose of told you so.

So all ordered - it's on a boat somewhere between Germany and here! Lands mid-May.

Here she is - figuring out how many handbags she can buy with her commission....

What car did you settle on?

ExpatOilWorker · April 29, 2021

On 4/27/2021 at 8:04 PM, pedro01 said:

Well - it's a conversation and like many - conversations veer off.

But - I own a C43 and I got it at over 300k discount from the sticker price - so yeah, it was under 4 mill. Comparing that with its bigger brother is only natural.

I think 300K discount is fairly common on new Mercedes.

pedro01 · April 30, 2021

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

What car did you settle on?

Hairdressers car - Z4 M40i

On the boat from Deutschland as we speak!

ExpatOilWorker · April 30, 2021

22 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Hairdressers car - Z4 M40i

On the boat from Deutschland as we speak!

Join the next Rally with BMWSocity, then we will be 2 farangs.

Excel · April 30, 2021

23 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Hairdressers car - Z4 M40i

On the boat from Deutschland as we speak!

Excellant, what colour ?

pedro01 · April 30, 2021

40 minutes ago, Excel said:

Excellant, what colour ?

Metallic Black - first time the wife and I agreed on anything!

l4ml4m · May 4, 2021

hello, what coupe would you recommend if not a Benz / BMW ?

For a change I want to know what Japanese offer as coupe for less than 4 mb ?

Usually they are disappointing and a Benz is always better than what Japs offer. But what now ?

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