THE WEEK THAT WAS The year long Phony War is over - unless you’re a pandemic denier

[orchis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_due_to_COVID-19#List
and yesterday Alber Elbaz, 59, fashion designer (YSL, Lanvin) 
after being in an induced coma for several days.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, robblok said:

I agree that there should be freedom of speech but is that the same as freedom to lie ?

It sure is otherwise it wouldn't be freedom of speech, would it?

[VBF]

55 minutes ago, Britman Free said:

Just went through it.  Zero household names.

Have you heard of any of those in that list before? 

 

If you recognise any of those names feel free to share an example ????

Here are a few possibly more famous deaths - if you don't know any of these you really have been living in a cave!

(Probably some overlap)

 

  https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-stars-and-notable-figures-who-have-died-after-contracting-covid-19-11969431 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/high-profile-people-who-have-died-coronavirus-related-illness-so-far-2020?r=US&IR=T

Edited April 25, 2021 by VBF

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, VBF said:

1 - Because they're friends and i care for their well-being 

2 - I hope because we've been friends for a long time: I respect their opinions and I hope the reverse is true.

 

I can only offer them my opinions - as i said earlier it's up to them after that.

Would you not wish to help friends if you considered they may be doing themselves a disservice by their actions? 

My friends all died, mostly of cancer, I'm last man standing and have pretty much given up on caring any more.

[jerolamo]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Here are a few possibly more famous deaths - if you don't know any of these you really have been living in a cave!

 

  https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-stars-and-notable-figures-who-have-died-after-contracting-covid-19-11969431 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/high-profile-people-who-have-died-coronavirus-related-illness-so-far-2020?r=US&IR=T

now we know what is your source of "information".

I consider that you are a victim.

[Joinaman]

25 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You are conflating two very different viruses as if they are the same and applying the same ill thought out logic with one as you are the other.

The ONLY reason flu kills so many people each year is there is still a relatively low uptake of the vacine each year. In America for example, only about half the people who should be getting a jab actually get a jab  

https://www.valuepenguin.com/coronavirus-influenza-vaccines. It is similar figures in many western countrries and a great deal less everywhere else.

If the uptake was greater, the infections and deaths would be lower. We don't accept this, but because the numbers are still relatively low and freedom of choice unfortunately overides sensibilities, it doesn't get the same headlines. 

Covid on the other hand is much more transmissable and much, much more deadly. This idea that they are similar and 'what's all the fuss about, we have flu each year and we live with that' is spurious, unhelpful and often the same argument as covid deniers or anti-vaxxers use. You are ceratinly not the latter but your comparisons diminish the severity of Covid and that is neither accurate nor helpful.

That's the part that you need to understand.  

 

Thanks for this

But are you saying that one or two vaccinations will stop you getting the flu virus, or is it required each and every year, like it appears to be in the UK, which has quite a high take up of this vaccine, yet still suffers many deaths 

Are you also saying that the Covid vaccine will give you complete immunity from the Covid virus, or will you be required to have an annual vaccination to hopefully provide immunization?

So freedom of choice overrides sensibilities ? So you advocate mass enforced vaccinations for the population , ?

[VBF]

9 minutes ago, Mark Nothing said:

I trusted the medical experts for decades who milked my illiteracy.  I didn't care for their superior, pompous, arrogant attitude.  So I decided to learn about vaccines by reading books.  Which led me to be anti vaccine. Perhaps your friends have educated themselves too.  Knowledge is the antidote to fear.  

And  perhaps I have also done a similar amount of research and come to different conclusions - which is the case.... I am pro-vax.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly, It is clear that differences of opinion are required for our species to survive and have a better understanding of how things work in society, i.e. we can NEVER take one side or listen to one side, otherwise we would be no better off than sheep, the majority of the human race has been conditioned to obey and not think outside the square.

 

We MUST listen to BOTH sides and then, make our OWN minds up as individuals, there is no right or wrong, it's all about perception, if people are gullible to believe one side over the other without thinking outside the square and not doing their own research, then they are no different than sheep, that is what separates those of us that think, as opposed to those who trust whatever they are fed.

 

In my opinion and from my extensive research, I can clearly see that there is a virus out there, yes it kills, yes it spreads more easily and a vaccine is required to reduce it's level of spread and damage that it does to those infected, however I do not see THEM, i.e. all world leaders listening to anyone outside of the WHO, the CDC and the FDA who have not suggested any other medicines to take which have been around for a long time, they have actually shelved them, and taken Doctors to task, you know the guys in white robes that we have trusted for decades, instead replaced them with government admin and front line puppets like Dr Fauci in my opinion, so Dr's are not allowed to treat their patients, this is a first, whatever happened to Dr, Patient privileges, e.g. something else in lieu of there being no vaccines available at that time, governments stepped in and took control over Dr's, remember, these are professionals in their chosen fields, I have NEVER heard of this before, and am suspicious as to why, previously it was always up to the Dr on how he/she would treat the patient, this to me is now nothing short of tyranny, where countries that have always been considered free, are now oppressed by their governments arbitrary use of powers.

 

One only has to look at all the research out there that suggests that the Flu shot may provide up to 24% protection against Covid, better than nothing at the moment, the Pneumonia vaccine may also provide some protection.

 

Research on the drugs that the Thai government are providing to Covid patients, e.g. Favipiravir was originally made in Japan back in 2014 for the Influenza, but their recent study on it's effect on Covid showed it didn't work because it didn't follow the golden standard, although the evidence showed it did, so was eventually scraped and it's patent expired.

 

Thailand now makes it (legally) and is giving it to it's Covid patients, but no large scale studies have been conducted, so good for them for going against the golden standard "grain" and experimenting to see if it works, I mean, it appears to work as we see the amount of those coming out of hospital to be higher than those remaining in hospital, so why aren't others trying it, or something else, could it be this golden standard process in a pandemic ? 

 

It's always been a massive PUSH for the vaccine from the start, 12-18 time, but no to anything else professionals had prescribed/suggested, who cares, shut them down, remove their licenses, right, that is freedom ?

 

Dr to Covid patient; we don't have anything at the moment, the vaccines are 3,4,5,6 months away, will you agree to try this drug, or that drug which may or may not work, we have given xyz patients this drug and xyz patients have recovered and zxy patients have not, it is up to you, and if it works, all and good then you can get vaccinated when the vaccines arrives later, if it doesn't, at least we tried, better than nothing, the other alternative is try to fight it off yourself and hopefully not die and not have long Covid.

 

But to suggest we are conspiracy theorists for thinking or commenting outside the main media, one sided spill, is an absolute disgrace to those who are so fixated on being and believing the one sided views.

 

A coin will always has two sides to it, here are two sides to back me up and hopefully not warrant me being warned again or being suspended for my views.

 

Side one, hope:

 

https://www.ajmc.com/view/flu-vaccine-may-protect-against-covid-19-infection

 

https://www.dw.com/en/why-are-flu-vaccinated-people-more-resistant-to-covid-19/a-57038866

 

Side 2, no hope:

 

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-and-programs/covid-19-vaccines/is-it-true/is-it-true-will-the-flu-vaccine-protect-me-from-getting-covid-19

 

https://coronavirus.tas.gov.au/keeping-yourself-safe/what-you-can-do/influenza-vaccination

 

Ask yourselves this, are the links in side one conspiracies or facts ?

 

In my opinion the links in side 2 are the governments not wanting to look outside the square to try something else, only listening to the WHO, CDC and the FDA, now that worries me personally, but that does not make me a conspiracy theorist.

 

https://theconversation.com/until-a-coronavirus-vaccine-is-ready-pneumonia-vaccines-may-reduce-deaths-from-covid-19-147829#:~:text=A recent preprint study (not,brunt of the coronavirus pandemic.

 

https://www.advancedsciencenews.com/can-the-pneumonia-vaccine-protect-against-covid-19/

 

Favipiravir:

 

https://www.businesstoday.in/sectors/pharma/covid-19-pandemic-fujifilm-applies-for-approval-of-avigan-as-treatment-in-japan/story/419100.html

 

Edit: There may still be some hope:

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/fujifilm-starts-new-late-phase-trial-avigan-japan-covid-19-patients-2021-04-21/

 

Great thesis, I'm sure, could you give us a précis?

[DavisH]

7 hours ago, upu2 said:

The virus is real. However cases are being considered as hospitalisations and deaths which they are not. You can have the virus feel a bit under the weather for a while and then feel fine. The people who are at risk are those who are obese or have underlaying health problems.

except for the two young males who died today with no underlying symptoms. It's not a given that if one is young and healthy that they will not get severe symptoms from covid, in the same way that underlying conditions are a death sentence - they conveniently don't provide data on the elderly or those with underlying conditions that recover from covid. 

 

[jerolamo]

A study in september 2019 in Thailand show that 97 out of 200 people who died and were awarded an autopsy have traces of asbestos in their lungs (including one who was two and a half years old). And this country is one of the top level one to import massive asbestos to their product (most of them for roof building materials).

And that is a real information. It steal have a concern with health and care... who care really ?

[VBF]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

My friends all died, mostly of cancer, I'm last man standing and have pretty much given up on caring any more.

That's your situation, and I am of course sorry to hear about your lost friends.

I have lost many good friends especially recently, Cancer and other ailments but I have some good 'uns left and try to help.

[GreasyFingers]

10 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Somchai arrived in suit and tie on day one and was told he was a tad overdressed by a buddy teacher in shorts and open neck shirt.

Yes Rooster. When I went to school shirt and tie were the minimum dress. W1 always dressed appropriately (being a woman no shirt and tie) but others at the school were fat, slovenly slobs that dressed to suit their manner. They now expect sportsmen to be role models but allow the teachers to only model bad habits.

[VBF]

5 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

now we know what is your source of "information".

I consider that you are a victim.

Well i consider you're somewhat bizarre but  you don't care about my opinion and the reverse is certainly also true!

[jerolamo]

1 minute ago, VBF said:

And  perhaps I have also done a similar amount of research and come to different conclusions - which is the case.... I am pro-vax.

so you consider that we can only be pro or anti vax... it is a binary position and mind thinking and by a kind of fact observed, a proof of what you can think should not be as important as you are thinking it should be.

You just agreed with your interlocutor without even realizing it. Incredible but true that definitely demonstrate your brain power.

Thank you very much pro and anti anything to show yourself as you are really every time you try to discuss about anything.

[jerolamo]

6 minutes ago, VBF said:

Well i consider you're somewhat bizarre but  you don't care about my opinion and the reverse is certainly also true!

that's wrong. I care about victims a lot as i would prefer a intelligent and "free able" society. Also, if you were not a kind of victim, you should by yourself and because of my answer, devine it easy. You didn't... it is an other one proof you can face as a point to think about. Will you ? maybe...

But i see that you point my description with a "victim face", so definitely you give me an other one point to have a reason to think that you are a victim. So wonderful, thank you. But still, i hope for you to go out of this victim position. It require some personal mind thinking invest out of your sources little map word.

Edited April 25, 2021 by jerolamo

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

It would be nice if ThaiVisa did some investigative work on just who is the woman who bought all six felines?  What is her "Kingdom of Tigers"?  Will she take care of the cats responsbility or use them for breeding because they have a famous reputation?

They're her cats, why shouldn't she use them for breeding and what's irresponsible about breeding pedigree cats?   She doesn't have to explain "who she is" or why she refers to herself on social media as "Kingdom of Tigers"

[johnnybangkok]

18 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

 'Doctor' johnnybangkok has spoken so everyone else should just shut up, you're wrong, he's right.  He must be right because he's telling you he is.

You are more than welcome to debate my comments. But that would probably require more than playground insults so perhaps stay in your lane. 

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, NancyL said:

I read your weekly report for your witty comments about news that matters, not to get caught up in yet another quibbling match from armchair warriors who have nothing better to do with their time.

While you're happily disparaging everyone here, don't forget that you're one of those "quibbling armchair warriors who seems to have nothing better to do with their time" also (you're here aren't you?).   Or are you better than all the other members?

Edited April 25, 2021 by Liverpool Lou

[sometimewoodworker]

10 hours ago, rooster59 said:

The country is in lockdown and curfew in all but name.

Absolute BS. We had to take a dog to the vet a couple of hours ago. 
Yes, the traffic is very light.

Yes many fewer than the usual numbers of people were out.

Yes. Many shops were shut, but it is Sunday. There were plenty open.

No. There is no curfew.

No. There we no check points in the 120km round trip 

[VBF]

7 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

so you consider that we can only be pro or anti vax... it is a binary position and mind thinking and by a kind of fact observed, a proof of what you can think should not be as important as you are thinking it should be.

You just agreed with your interlocutor without even realizing it. Incredible but true that definitely demonstrate your brain power.

Thank you very much pro and anti anything to show yourself as you are really every time you try to discuss about anything.

No it's not always binary, but in principle I believe that vaccination is one of sciences greatest gifts to us all.

I only agreed with you inasmuch as I believe we should all do our own research and question everything, good and bad!

 

THAT is the sign of an open mind 

[VBF]

8 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

that's wrong. I care about victims a lot as i would prefer a intelligent and "free able" society. Also, if you were not a kind of victim, you should by yourself and because of my answer, devine it easy. You didn't... it is an other one proof you can face as a point to think about. Will you ? maybe...

I would if i understood what you were talking about....... care to elucidate? (I'm ignoring the implication that I'm a "victim" by the way)

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Well let me start by sayin - you are allowed your own opinion, you're just not allowed your own facts.

You have obviously written this with a pre-determined agenda that all things by all experts should be questioned on the basis that some of it can be wrong so therefore all of it should be under suspicion. This is blatantly not true. All of science works in a very pre-set way, where a hypothosis is ventured, tested and proved or disproved in a very set and peer reviewed way. If there are blatantly wrong they will be found out but it may take time for this to come to light. So in this example, perhaps the flu and pneominia vaccines my prove beneficial in the mitigating of Covid symptoms but equally so, they are not specifically created to combat Covid so the efficiency of them will always be questionable to vacines specifically created for Covid. This is now self-evident with actual vacines having efficiency rates of up to 90%.

The idea that  'We MUST listen to BOTH sides and then, make our OWN minds up as individuals, there is no right or wrong, it's all about perception' is blatantly false in the same way I don't question my accountant, mechanic, doctor or chef in their areas of expertise. I may get a second opinion but if that second opinion backs up the original opinion then I can be sure their knowledge is better than mine and go with their recommendations.

You talk of Dr Fauci, an esteemed physician-scientist and immunologist of some 50 years, who acted as an advisor to every U.S. president since Ronald Reagan and through contributions to HIV/AIDS research and other immunodeficiency diseases was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom as a 'front line puppet' as if the man has purposely misled the American people in some sort of machiavellian plot with a sinister agenda where the reality is he has just given his expert opinion (updated as more information became available) to the benefit of the masses.

There is a very good reason why people are not encouraged to 'listen to anyone outside of the WHO, the CDC and the FDA who have not suggested any other medicines' because that way leads to quakery, misinformation and the exploitation of the gullible. There's no big plot to hide the truth or only push one agenda; the vacine is by far the safest and most reliable way out of this mess and that's a consistent message that should be applauded NOT condemned.

Yes there are two sides to a coin but when that coin lands on heads the other side is irrelevant. And to suggest otherwise can indeed be constued as a conspracy theory which I gather from 'being warned again or being suspended for my views' is something others have pointed out to you before. 

 

Good grief...

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

6 hours ago, mogandave said:

I have never heard anyone call the covid virus a hoax. 

 

Does anyone have a link?

Conversations don't have links

They sure do, conversations that are relevant, that is, if there's no link it's just hearsay or urban myth

[jerolamo]

5 minutes ago, VBF said:

No it's not always binary, but in principle I believe that vaccination is one of sciences greatest gifts to us all.

I only agreed with you inasmuch as I believe we should all do our own research and question everything, good and bad!

 

THAT is the sign of an open mind 

I agree that vaccination is one of sciences great gifts to us all.

But this fact doesn't push me to loose my conscience and concentration the way i can forget how and why they switch so many required step to produce a safe vaccine, and what is a vaccine (the genetic treatment is not, by definition, a vaccine too).

So facts still exist about the product they build and how it does happened.

And to be open mind and widely, you should also look at fincancial facts around some of these "vaccine" made and the communication around (also the timing and fincancial rules around to full appreciate, and maybe understand a situation).

 

That is the sign of intelligence that can happen sometimes, to collect more data before to conclude anything. But i agree also that nowaday, there is a huge sources of data (and much more to add interest facts around each of them that can be an influant qualification to the source of concern) to compile before to, at next step, procuct any linked mind thinking in relation with.

Edited April 25, 2021 by jerolamo

[Britman Free]

18 minutes ago, jerolamo said:

now we know what is your source of "information".

I consider that you are a victim.

Fair play to him, one of the lists he sent over included THE 'famous' Trini Lopez (aged 83) ????. I had to google him - thought it might be JLo's grandma but apparently he was a singer when the world was in black & white.

Also some bloke from the Temptations who apparently just died at 49.  How TF could the lead singer of a 70's band have just died aged 49?   

 

That's me told!

 

[johnnybangkok]

16 minutes ago, Joinaman said:

Thanks for this

But are you saying that one or two vaccinations will stop you getting the flu virus, or is it required each and every year, like it appears to be in the UK, which has quite a high take up of this vaccine, yet still suffers many deaths 

Are you also saying that the Covid vaccine will give you complete immunity from the Covid virus, or will you be required to have an annual vaccination to hopefully provide immunization?

So freedom of choice overrides sensibilities ? So you advocate mass enforced vaccinations for the population , ?

The flu varies from year to year, so yes a new jab is required each year (which is free in the UK).
We all know (or should know) that the current Covid vacines does not offer complete immunity but some provide a high degree of cover so are massively better than nothing.  I imagine (but don't know for sure) that Covid will continue to mutate and therefore a yearly jab will be required, but it may also work like the measles that only requires one jab and perhaps then a booster. 

If given a choice yes I would advocate mass enforcement for the population, much in the same way that kids aren't allowed into public schools without the right vacinations but I can equally imagine this will never happen so as long as the recommended 80-85% is done to continue herd immunity, then I suppose that will have to do,.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

As I've said in response to @xylophone it's up to the reader to always "consider the source". I f I post that the Holocaust or Covid are false (i.e. I become a denier) then clearly I as a source am totally unreliable and should be ignored.

 

I have 2 friends who are anti-vaxers partly from reading this nonsense - whatever I say they won't be moved. I've tried my hardest to dissuade them to no avail.

Up to them - sad but there it is - I hope they stay well as they are friends but they're adults making adult decisions which is and should remain their right - simple as that.

 

Sorry if i sound dogmatic, but the thought of censorship scares me more than Covid amplified by articles like this one

 

https://theconversation.com/press-freedom-how-governments-are-using-covid-as-an-excuse-to-crack-down-on-the-publics-right-to-know-159298

I am divided on this.. its not just covid that i worry about lies. But your right about losing freedoms. I think there is no easy solution.

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

I would if i understood what you were talking about....... care to elucidate? (I'm ignoring the implication that I'm a "victim" by the way)

sure you are ignored, and sure you miss understood, that exactly what i try to explain you and why.

Ok, nevermind, maybe you are not able to understand at this point, but i appreciate really your humility to recognize it as it is. Bravo !

So next step for you is to then not cut the edge or conclude anything.

Edited April 25, 2021 by jerolamo

[VBF]

1 minute ago, jerolamo said:

I agree that vaccination is one of sciences great gifts to us all.

But this fact doesn't push me to loose my conscience and concentration the way i can forget how and why they switch so many required step to produce a safe vaccine, and what is a vaccine (the genetic treatment is not, by definition, a vaccine too).

So facts still exist about the product they build and how it does happened.

And to be open mind and widely, you should also look at fincancial facts around some of these "vaccine" made and the communication around (also the timing and fincancial rules around to full appreciate, and maybe understand a situation).

 

That is the sign of intelligence that can happen sometimes, to collect more data before to conclude anything. But i agree also that nowaday, therte is a huge sources of da

As I've posted before, I commend you to watch the BBC documentary, The Race for a Vaccine which explains how the essential testing was indeed carried out, - what was omitted was all the administration, meetings, paperwork and other BS that usually causes vaccines to take years to be approved.

[jerolamo]

7 minutes ago, VBF said:

As I've posted before, I commend you to watch the BBC documentary, The Race for a Vaccine which explains how the essential testing was indeed carried out, - what was omitted was all the administration, meetings, paperwork and other BS that usually causes vaccines to take years to be approved.

it is wrong.

Has i told you before, you are the victim of commercial propaganda origins.

You should consider to read and listen to the one who are implicated and specialist (not expert) in the domain of concern and, all of them, said that it is not just administrative points, but much more. On genetic product (that people call vaccine and that is not), there is specificaly 6 points missing to be able to trust a very new edge product in science.

And let me tell you than BBC documentary are very bad one, if it is your source of information, then you should be able to understand very soon if you are realy as hmble as you pretend to be why you are this victim.

Inform yourselves. there is a great book you can start to read: "fabrication of consent" (Noam Chomsky), and maybe "Propaganda" (Edouard Bernay). That should instruct you about our new world of influences and how does it  work for convince you without you really know anything.

Edited April 25, 2021 by jerolamo