Thailand previews difficult life without tourists

[NeoDinosaw]

7 hours ago, mikebell said:

The Thai prostitution industry dwarfs that for tourists.

Yes , that is indeed true. But the vast majority of the money that changes hands is from one Thai to another.  It is not bringing income from abroad - which is what the country needs

[MayBeNow]

Most likely tourism will slowly start to rebound in 2022 with vaccinated foreigners allowed. In 2023 and beyond it will be as it used to be, and more.

There is no reason tourism to Thailand won't rebound. 

To think a minor desease as covid 19 will change the world is based more on perhaps wishful thinking then on realism. Yes covid 19 has deep short term effects, but i dont see any long lasting life changing effects down the road, but thats just my opinion. 

 

I have been coming to Thailand and SE Asia for 21 years. I sometimes don't like certain aspects of Thailand but on a whole it has the best to offer compared to the countries around. Mind you i like the people in Myanmar more, the artifacts in Cambodia, the diverse food in Malaysia, the nature in Laos, the mountains in Java etc.. But Thailand on a whole just gives the most wholesome experience. 

 

I have heard for 21 years Thailand is done with tourism wise. While in 2000 there were less then 10 million tourists annually in 2019 there were 39.9 million. The nay sayers were wrong as they will be proven wrong now.

 

Anyway as long as 95% of the first time visitors to Thailand I meet are raving how 'awesome and great' their experience was and how nice Thai people are I guess that tourism in Thailand is doing fine.

[kimamey]

7 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

 

The prevailing xenophobia is, in my opinion, driven primarily by Sino Thais and Sino Thai elites in particular. Experience shows in virtually every part of the world where there are large ethnic Chinese national populations, there is a deep xenophobia for outsiders. Now, it's not just ethnic Chinese, of course. East Asians are largely deeply xenophobic. I love and respect Japanese culture, but I would NEVER live in Japan.

 

I'm not sure if that's true but that would perhaps partly explain the attitude in the government and amongst others in the upper levels of Thai society.

 

[Neal182]

Maybe they should charge people 3000 baht not 300 baht for the privilege of visiting Thailand. If not many show up then make it 30,000 baht. 

[martin81]

I have just been to Thailand both in Bangkok, Pattaya, Cha-am and countryside Khon Kaen. I did not anywhere encounter Thais being hostile to me. The bar girls and masseuses are friendly as always but of course some are initially afraid of Covid-19 as Thai government has told them That Covid-19 comes from foreigners/tourists( when the fact is it probably mostly now comes into Thailand from illegal Burmese and Cambodians, that do not always quarantine).

After explaining in Thai that I am already vaccinated and have been in Quarantine the fear seems to go away.

And also in restaurants and shops thais has been as friendly as usual; probably friendlier than earlier as they get very few customers compared to pre-covid.

 

So I have difficulty finding the hostility to foreigners as some TV members are writing about. But because of fear and low knowledge it does of course appear some places.

[BritManToo]

Just now, martin81 said:

So I have difficulty finding the hostility to foreigners as some TV members are writing about. But because of fear and low knowledge it does of course appear some places.

I think you'll find the hostility and fear directed towards white foreigners is coming from the Thai government and their lackeys in the Thai media. Not from the general Thai population.

[kimamey]

5 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Tourists do not go to Issan. Tourists go to Phuket and Pattaya, both areas that are polluted with hustlers 'authorised' to operate by blind or involved local authority members and police, and both with outdated and inadequate infrastructure.
 

It would be interesting to know how many gullible people, after being taken in by photos of palm-tree surrounded beaches (some of which are not even in Thailand, but used by TAT anyway) ever return. And how many spread the word about what they've seen and how they've been treated. All but Chinese tourism was declining long before Covid.

That's true but Thailand has been surviving with those tourists for a long time so they must have been doing something right.

It's difficult for me to get a good idea of what foreign tourists experience as we tend to go to less touristy areas and even if we do then I'm clearly with my Thai wife and not a 2 week tourist.

 

I won't post a picture of an infinity pool in a tourist are of Thailand due to possible copyright issues but they are easy to find. Here's an Isaan infinity pool at the Pak Mun Dam in Ubon Ratchathani. Use whatever you can find.

 

 

[kimamey]

23 hours ago, connda said:

I've lived within fully Thai communities in Isaan, Bangkok, and Northern Thailand.  If you are under the illusion that you as a foreigner are somehow accepted as part of their culture, then you are simply fooling yourself.  Thais can be polite, but don't think that means you are accepted as part of their community or part of their culture. You are not.  I even spent a full Rain Retreat as a Buddhist monk is a region where I was the only foreigner, and trust me, even there the "respect" was at best paper thin.  Not all Thais, but quite a significant number were...unaccepting, and that nonacceptance had everything to do with me being kon chart dang - an outsider from a different country - i.e., Not A Thai.

What a strange post. You don't know me or who I've met but you seem to know so much.

As I said I've never noticed any any adverse attitudes towards me. Obviously they don't consider me as a Thai any more than I consider them British which is how I view the Chinese, Polish, Bulgarian, Iranian, Iraqi, American or any other nationality that I've worked with or have known. They do ask me if if there is anything I miss from the UK. Sometimes I'm honest and say "polite competent drivers". Maybe they seem to like me but don't. That could also apply to my wife or my first wife or my family or basically anyone who seems to respect me.

 

There's a difference between our experiences. I see what I think and hope is genuine friendship or at least a positive attitude but which may conceal dislike that I don't know about. You've seen what you know is a lack of respect. Does anyone you know or meet like or respect you and is that genuine or have they fooled you?

 

Maybe I'm likable and you aren't.  ????

[martin81]

54 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I think you'll find the hostility and fear directed towards white foreigners is coming from the Thai government and their lackeys in the Thai media. Not from the general Thai population.

 

Yes I agree with that. The Thai government wants to get tourists to make money, but they seem very hostile towards foreigners in their policies like new 300 b tax; like we don't pay plenty of VAT and other taxes when in Thailand. Also now the unnecessary increase in Quarantine to 14 days even for vaccinated foreigners seems hostile. And the difficulty with visas when you want to stay longer than 45 days. They are really not helping ordinary Thais to make more money from tourists. I just read in March 21 they still only got around 7000 tourists compared to 3-4 millions per month pre-covid.

[BenDeCosta]

1 hour ago, martin81 said:

Yes I agree with that. The Thai government wants to get tourists to make money, but they seem very hostile towards foreigners

 

In a way, it almost seems like they want foreigners' money, but they would prefer it if the foreigners didn't actually enter the country.

 

Another thing that bugs me is the Thai idea that all farangs just have loads of money, so it's therefore fine to try and get as much of it as they can, they never seem to understand that foreigners have worked their butts off to get the money for their holiday.

Edited May 7, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[Golden Triangle]

And in Phuket they are crying out for tourists, they are so poor, they used to make 1000s of Baht a month  from farangs, as soon as some turn up to visit they charge them 500 Baht for a test, of course Thais are free, sod em, let them starve.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Golden Triangle
Spelling

[BenDeCosta]

23 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

And in Phuket they are crying out for tourists, they are so poor, they used to make 1000s of Baht a month  from farangs, as soon as some turn up to visit they charge them 500 Baht for a test, of course Thais are free, sod em, let them starve.

 

And the Thai mentality is that if you don't have many customers, then you should charge more to make up for it. They just aren't good with economics, but it's not their fault, the only education options available to them are almost always sub-standard because the money almost always just manages to disappear into thin air. 

 

I'd be happy to work for free teaching things like English, maths and economics if I were allowed to do it, but it might cause the Thai teachers to lose face so they aren't interested. I was offered a teaching job in my wife's village for 16k a month at the village school, and I said that I would be happy to do it for nothing. The woman who approached me was the local English teacher, and I asked her to speak to me in Thai because I couldn't understand her English at all. I never heard from her again, I think she lost face when I couldn't understand her English.

 

I think this "face" culture is harmful to the Thais because it doesn't allow them to admit that they are wrong and move forward. Intelligent people learn more from their failures than from their successes, that's how you progress, but here they can't admit their failures because it makes them lose face, so they never progress.

 

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, martin81 said:

I just read in March 21 they still only got around 7000 tourists compared to 3-4 millions per month pre-covid.

I'm surprised it was that many,

Quite frankly The Philippines, Cambodia, and Vietnam are far more foreigner friendly countries and if I didn't already have Thai children I would have moved to Cambodia last year. Vietnam has exceptional tourist sight seeing attractions and amazing beaches, not to mention the beer is half the price of Thailand. If you're a drunk (like me), the Philippines sells gin at $2 a bottle.

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

I think this "face" culture is harmful to the Thais because it doesn't allow them to admit that they are wrong and move forward. Intelligent people learn more from their failures than from their successes, that's how you progress, but here they can't admit their failures because it makes them lose face, so they never progress.

Can we call it what it really is ....... false pride.

The Thais are a terribly proud people, which is at odds with their total inability to do anything right.

Their education system is appalling, their greed is unbelievable, their morality is a world low, and their incompetence at everything is verging on the ridiculous.

 

Let me give you my most recent example,

I just had a 2 floor extension done, 32 m2 of tiled floor.

The builders ordered 30 boxes of tiles, I said ..... "you need 35 boxes"

But they knew best and ordered 30 boxes (saving 1,000bht).

(I would have given them the extra 1k, but they insisted they knew better)

They were 3 boxes short, and now bodged the job by using 3 boxes of slightly different colour tiles. It also cost them an extra day hiring 2 tilers as they had to scrabble around for another 3 boxes of tiles. 

 

So they screwed a 150,000bht contract in order to try and save 1,000bht.

I know nothing about building, but I do know you always order more tiles than you need, because you can never match the colour. After much pleading, apologising and whining I told them to f$#& off and don't bother to come back to do the next job (200kbht).

Edited May 7, 2021 by BritManToo

[BenDeCosta]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm surprised it was that many,

Quite frankly The Philippines, Cambodia, and Vietnam are far more foreigner friendly countries and if I didn't already have Thai children I would have moved to Cambodia last year. Vietnam has exceptional tourist sight seeing attractions and amazing beaches, not to mention the beer is half the price of Thailand. If you're a drunk (like me), the Philippines sells gin at $2 a bottle.

 

The first time I went to Cambodia (about 15 years ago), I thought it was much more third-world than Thailand, and it still is (although I haven't been there for a couple of years), but it is progressing quickly whilst Thailand is stagnating. You can get a half-decent steak and chips with peppercorn sauce and a pint of proper beer for $5, try getting that in Thailand. Visas are much easier, costs are much lower, the weather is the same and the girls are just as nice. And even the street urchins in Cambodia can speak passable English, compare that to Thailand.

 

Thailand has just rested on its laurels, assuming that everyone wants to go there. Head in the sand mentality. Unwilling to change or to accept that they ever did anything wrong. Unwilling to lose face and accept that anything that they ever did was not perfect. Therefore nothing will change in Thailand, whilst neighboring countries will do well.

 

Head in the sand, unwilling to lose face culture will be the country's downfall. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes, but Thai people simply refuse to ever accept that they've ever done anything wrong. That's why nothing will ever change.

[Stargeezr]

China will only allow their rich elite, who have had the Pfizer shots, to travel abroad. I have read and heard that less than 5 percent of

the Chinese have been vaccinated. With India having its tragic effects of COVID, I doubt that they will be travelling abroad

for at least 2 or 3 years as well. Where does this leave Thailand?  Well with Vietnam and other parts of Asian seeming to be friendlier 

toward tourists, it leaves Thailand at the rear of the pack.  Will the military junta, get a bit more intelligent and make it easier

for all tourists to come to Thailand, by fixing their visa requirements? Will TAT show that they have any intelligence and do some

honest forecasting of the future tourist numbers?  Will Thai Air be able to fly abroad without getting their aircraft seized?

   I am just glad that I am not trapped in Thailand by owning a house, or having a wife who would make it harder for me to leave

Thailand.   The future awaits, after the Summer of 2022.

Geezer

[ozz1]

good time to introduce a fee when tourists arrive !  i love the  thai people but this government is crazy 

[MaxYakov]

Lockdowns/lockouts - authoritarian, unscientific, crapshoot decision that destroy the economy. Thailand is not alone in this decision or in having a destroyed economy.

[BenDeCosta]

On 5/8/2021 at 3:44 PM, MaxYakov said:

Lockdowns/lockouts - authoritarian, unscientific, crapshoot decision that destroy the economy. Thailand is not alone in this decision or in having a destroyed economy.

 

It's very odd how so many governments around the world introduced lockdowns when there is zero proof that they do anything to prevent the spread of a virus. And how so many police forces around the world have suddenly become so militant and aggressive, all at the same time. Of course, lockdowns have an extremely destructive effect on the economy, but public servants and the super rich elite have continued making money throughout the lockdowns. Make of that what you will.

[Surelynot]

39 minutes ago, BenDeCosta said:

t's very odd how so many governments around the world introduced lockdowns when there is zero proof that they do anything to prevent the spread of a virus.

Utter nonsense......there is no end of evidence they stop the spread of the virus....the problem of lockdowns is you need an exist strategy, which is a vaccine roll out.

[BenDeCosta]

22 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Utter nonsense......there is no end of evidence they stop the spread of the virus....the problem of lockdowns is you need an exist strategy, which is a vaccine roll out.

Can you provide some links to evidence that they "stop" the spread?

 

There is no reliable evidence showing that there is any correlation between lockdowns and virus control.

 

If anything, they just slow, but don't reduce the spread thereby prolonging the issue.

Edited May 9, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information has been removed.  

 

[djayz]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:34 PM, snoop1130 said:

Thailand looks ill-prepared for life without tourists

Ill-prepared? They're already planning to stiff them with "tourist fees". 

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, BenDeCosta said:

Can you provide some links to evidence that they "stop" the spread?

 

There is no reliable evidence showing that there is any correlation between lockdowns and virus control.

 

If anything, they just slow, but don't reduce the spread thereby prolonging the issue.

Look at a graph of daily infections where lockdowns have been introduced.....try the UK.

[BenDeCosta]

2 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Look at a graph of daily infections where lockdowns have been introduced.....try the UK.

 

I stopped getting colds just when I bought a new Seiko watch. Is that proof that Seiko watches are effective at preventing colds? I'm talking about rigorous scientific evidence regarding lockdowns, and there is none. 

[Surelynot]

1 hour ago, BenDeCosta said:

Can you provide some links to evidence that they "stop" the spread?

 

There is no reliable evidence showing that there is any correlation between lockdowns and virus control.

 

If anything, they just slow, but don't reduce the spread thereby prolonging the issue.

...............I rest my case

[Scott]

An off-topic troll post reported and removed.   Please stay on topic.  

 

[wn78]

On 5/7/2021 at 5:45 AM, kimamey said:

 

 

sorry for a slight off-topic, but that's an interesting structure.  What is it?

[Stargeezr]

Well people are still dying from COVID.  So Ben, do you need scientific data on that figure too?

  Some of us have lost friends and relatives to this deadly virus, so we do not need others to tell us 

about doubt, or disbelief with this virus.

  Geezer

[BenDeCosta]

3 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

Well people are still dying from COVID.  So Ben, do you need scientific data on that figure too?

  Some of us have lost friends and relatives to this deadly virus, so we do not need others to tell us 

about doubt, or disbelief with this virus.

  Geezer

 

Never doubted the virus. I know that it's dangerous and people are dying. I just pointed out that there is no rigorous scientific evidence that lockdowns do anything to stop the spread of a virus. 

 

https://academic.oup.com/cesifo/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cesifo/ifab003/6199605

Edited May 10, 2021 by BenDeCosta