Biggest thing to fear is fear itself

[Brunolem]

9 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The average 1% CFR has so far translated into  3.4 million known COVID deaths worldwide, actual count is certainly higher 

 

We al have some degree of "COVID fatigue", myself included. But it is not the case that because we have this emotion, the disease is factually unimportant.

 

3.4 million known WITH Covid deaths.

 

When the Thai Covid deaths numbers were in the single digits, I used to read the history of each deceased patient (it was published), and most of them had comorbidities, often several.

 

Many had even been bedridden for a long time, but we're nevertheless counted as plain Covid victims.

 

As for the disease in itself, I can say that I would chose covid over any cancer without any hesitation.

 

Cancer is still here, killing far more than covid, and while it may not be contagious in the same way than covid (person to person), humans  nevertheless have a lot to do with its spreading...

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

It is actually the opposite, with even the CDC saying a few months ago that only 6% of the so-called Covid deaths in America, were from patients suffering from no other comorbidities.

 

In other words, the vast majority of the victims die from, say, cancer + Covid, or diabetes + Covid, and are counted fully as Covid deaths, even though they are deaths WITH Covid and not deaths from Covid.

 

There is also the little fact that American hospitals are given financial incentives for each reported Covid death.

 

It is thus no wonder that the richest/most developed country in the world is also the one that has reported the highest number of covid deaths, way above poor India and it's 1.4 billion population...

 

This "death with COVID" nonsense is pure distortion.

 

Most death certificates, regardless of cause, list co-morbidities. There is a clear distinction between cause of death and co-morbidities or underlying conditions.

 

People make it sound like anyone who  dies from COVID and also had any chronic health condition was at death's door anyway. Rarely is this the case.

 

I have mild hypertension, fully controlled with medication. I am fully active in all ways and my life expectancy is easily another 20-25 years. If I were to die of COVID,  the hypertension would be listed on the death certificate as a co-morbidity. According to this  "logic" - which has no basis in science or medical practice - my death  would not be due to COVID because of my hypertension.

 

My elderly mother, who walks a mile every day, is fully active and independent,  still plays tennis etc, has Type 2 diabetes, fully controlled by diet alone. Her life expectancy is another 5-10 years easily. If she were to get COVID and die, her death certificate would mention Type 2 DM as a co-morbidity and according to this 'logic" she would not have died of COVID.

 

By this same distorted "logic" the majority of deaths from cancer were not from cancer, the majority of deaths from heart disease were not from heart disease etc etc.

 

MOST people who die of any cause  have one or more co-morbidities. There  is a huge difference between a co-morbidity and a cause of death.

 

This insistance that the presence of any co-morbidity invalidates a cause of death is contrary to the science of epidemiology and normal medical practice. It is a straw being grasped at by COVID deniers, and COVID denial is not based on thought or reason. It is based on emotion or ulterior motives and manipulates facts to serves those ends.

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Curt1591 said:

BECAUSE THE HOSPITAL GETS $30K for expenses treating covid patients. 

Better fact check yourself before you post misinformation

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/

What's True

It is plausible that Medicare is paying hospital fees for some COVID-19 cases in the range of the figures given by Dr. Scott Jensen, a Minnesota state senator, during a Fox News interview.

What's False

However, Medicare says it does not make standard, one-size-fits-all payments to hospitals for patients admitted with COVID-19 diagnoses and placed on ventilators. The $13,000 and $39,000 figures appear to be based on generic industry estimates for admitting and treating patients with similar conditions.

 

The same goes for other insurances.  Quit posting misinformation please.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

 

dismissing deaths of people who recently got the JAB.     

 

 

 

 

The vast majority of deaths in people who had one of the COVID vaccines are unrelated to the vaccine.

 

714 million people have received at least 1 dose of a COVID vaccine as of May 19.

 

Naturally, among that number, some have died.  In fact, all of them will eventually, and some of that will be within days, weeks or months of their vaccination.

 

You could administer a sugar pill to millions of people and some of them will die soon afterwards.

 

The vaccines are not expected to confer immortality.

 

The issue is: all things taken into account, does the vaccination increase or decrease the risk of death or serious disability>? And the evidence on that is very clear.

[Ventenio]

the best smile is smile itself

the best sleep is sleep itself

the best food is food itself

 

the biggest thing to sleep is sleep itself...

the biggest thing to hide is hide itself...

 

 

oh, i'm here all night!!!  

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, ThailandRyan said:

Better fact check yourself before you post misinformation

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/medicare-hospitals-covid-patients/

What's True

It is plausible that Medicare is paying hospital fees for some COVID-19 cases in the range of the figures given by Dr. Scott Jensen, a Minnesota state senator, during a Fox News interview.

What's False

However, Medicare says it does not make standard, one-size-fits-all payments to hospitals for patients admitted with COVID-19 diagnoses and placed on ventilators. The $13,000 and $39,000 figures appear to be based on generic industry estimates for admitting and treating patients with similar conditions.

 

The same goes for other insurances.  Quit posting misinformation please.

 

For COVID or anything esle, medicare reimburses based on the care provided and only if it was medically indicated and in accordance with prevailing medical standards.

 

it also reimburses at well below market rate.

 

There is  no financial incentive for hospitals to falsely claim a COVID diagnosis.

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

This "death with COVID" nonsense is pure distortion.

 

Most death certificates, regardless of cause, list co-morbidities. There is a clear distinction between cause of death and co-morbidities or underlying conditions.

 

People make it sound like anyone who  dies from COVID and also had any chronic health condition was at death's door anyway. Rarely is this the case.

 

I have mild hypertension, fully controlled with medication. I am fully active in all ways and my life expectancy is easily another 20-25 years. If I were to die of COVID,  the hypertension would be listed on the death certificate as a co-morbidity. According to this  "logic" - which has no basis in science or medical practice - my death  would not be due to COVID because of my hypertension.

 

My elderly mother, who walks a mile every day, is fully active and independent,  still plays tennis etc, has Type 2 diabetes, fully controlled by diet alone. Her life expectancy is another 5-10 years easily. If she were to get COVID and die, her death certificate would mention Type 2 DM as a co-morbidity and according to this 'logic" she would not have died of COVID.

 

By this same distorted "logic" the majority of deaths from cancer were not from cancer, the majority of deaths from heart disease were not from heart disease etc etc.

 

MOST people who die of any cause  have one or more co-morbidities. There  is a huge difference between a co-morbidity and a cause of death.

 

This insistance that the presence of any co-morbidity invalidates a cause of death is contrary to the science of epidemiology and normal medical practice. It is a straw being grasped at by COVID deniers, and COVID denial is not based on thought or reason. It is based on emotion or ulterior motives and manipulates facts to serves those ends.

 

 

Fact check: CDC's data on COVID-19 deaths used incorrectly in misleading claims

A regular update of data on COVID-19 deaths by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has prompted a groundswell of claims that only a fraction of people have actually died directly from the novel coronavirus.

The misleading and inaccurate conclusions come from recently released statistics on comorbidities data in the CDC's weekly coronavirus update, with statistics as of Aug. 26.

“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death,” the report reads.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-cdcs-data-covid-19-deaths-used-misleading-claims/5681686002/

[rumak]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

The vast majority of deaths in people who had one of the COVID vaccines are unrelated to the vaccine.

 

you should at least put my whole quote up for people to see.

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Fact check: CDC's data on COVID-19 deaths used incorrectly in misleading claims

A regular update of data on COVID-19 deaths by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has prompted a groundswell of claims that only a fraction of people have actually died directly from the novel coronavirus.

The misleading and inaccurate conclusions come from recently released statistics on comorbidities data in the CDC's weekly coronavirus update, with statistics as of Aug. 26.

“For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death,” the report reads.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-cdcs-data-covid-19-deaths-used-misleading-claims/5681686002/

As I explained, most deaths from any natural cause list one or more co-morbidities.

 

USA Today is nto a scientific journal. They are simply repeating unfounded claims made by others.

 

The 2.6 conditions comorbidities on death certificates. Not causes of death.

 

[Neeranam]

5 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Not sure this will happen if the only option is sinovac, which looks very likely.

 

People are right to fear this vaccine, and it will be useless if they ever want to travel abroad. 

I am sure this will happen, I know many people who are terrified of this pandemic. 

 

Are you saying this vaccine is not enough for me to travel abroad in July?

[Sheryl]

A standard US death ceritifcate has 2 sections. The first one lists the "chain of events—diseases, injuries, or complications—that directly caused the death."  in reverse chronological order. For COVID this might typically include "Respiratory failure -prneumonia - COVID infection" or "cerebral thrombosis-coagulaopathy-COVID infection".

 

Part 2 lists "other significant conditions contributing to death but not resulting in the underlying cause (of death)". This is where things like obesity, DM etc would go.

[Sheryl]

Once again,post with social media clip removed per forum rules:

 

18) Social Media content is acceptable in most social forums. However, in factual areas such as news, current affairs and health topics, it cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or government agency, and must include a weblink to the original source.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/terms/

[Curt1591]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

Does Covid affect our hearing or is it more deadly for deaf people? I am serious, all news reports about Covid have a deaf translator. 

 

 

In the US, government announcements almost always have a sign language interpreter. 

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I am sure this will happen, I know many people who are terrified of this pandemic. 

 

Are you saying this vaccine is not enough for me to travel abroad in July?

Depends on where you are going.  Sinovac isn't great at dealing with some of the variants.  Not to mention the possibility of getting sick even though you've been jabbed.  Borders closing quickly, entry requirements changing, or getting a false positive test and then forced into quarantine at your own expense.

 

Tough times for us travelers.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Brunolem said:

Which somehow stopped the flu virus, but not the COVID virus...makes sense...

It actually does make sense. The current variants of the flu are a lot less contagious than covid. So social distancing measures are a lot more effective against them.

Edited May 21, 2021 by placeholder

[Henricus]

4 hours ago, rcuthbert said:

 Begging the question - is it my duty to get vaccinated?

no but stay away from me

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, rcuthbert said:

Before I get vaccinated, I will do my research. If I decide that the benefits outweigh the risks - then I will go for it.

Wearing a mask is an important social responsibility. Begging the question - is it my duty to get vaccinated?

Morally speaking, yes.

[Excel]

2 hours ago, jollyhangmon said:

 

... I can top that with some additional 'White Fungus' whilst we're @ it ...

 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/coronavirus-after-rise-in-black-fungus-cases-white-fungus-cases-reported-in-india-heres-what-we-know-so-far/articleshow/82798610.cms

 

Whole thing starts to sound like freakin' Monty Python's in their prime, 555 ...

 

The "walking dead" soon to become reality. Death by fungus

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, cyril sneer said:

Not sure this will happen if the only option is sinovac, which looks very likely.

 

People are right to fear this vaccine, and it will be useless if they ever want to travel abroad. 

Yes. They should be terrifed. Just consider the awful consequences that occurred when 98% of the adults in this Brazilian town were vaccinated with Coronavac's vaccine:

Maskless in Brazil: Chinese vaccine creates pandemic oasis

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/COVID-vaccines/Maskless-in-Brazil-Chinese-vaccine-creates-pandemic-oasis

[Surelynot]

The biggest thing to fear is certainty.

 

As a friend of mine once said.......it didn't stress him that his wife might be having an affair..........it was finding out that she was having an affair that really stressed him.

[drenddy]

Media has a huge role in this. 

The way, they present news "biggest rise", "Covid-19 cases unchanged, but lowest number of tests" and so on. 

I read at some point, during first wave, "now, over 500.000 people in India has Covid-19", which has its effect, better than say, "now, 0.01% of people." 

 

What can I say, <deleted> off and a polite request to our chinese friends, please eat chicken or beef next time or some normal food, will you? 

 

Thank you. 

[cyril sneer]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

Efficacy in preventing any symptomatic disease = 50 - 84% in Phase III trials, depending on country/variant

 

Efficacy in preventing severe disease = 85 - 100%

 

 

will you take it if offered it?

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, cyril sneer said:

will you take it if offered it?

In the blink of an eye.

[placeholder]

56 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

As I explained, most deaths from any natural cause list one or more co-morbidities.

 

USA Today is nto a scientific journal. They are simply repeating unfounded claims made by others.

 

The 2.6 conditions comorbidities on death certificates. Not causes of death.

 

Actually, if you read it carefully, the article supports your claim. That's why I cited it.

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

The deadly virus with 90% asymptomatic cases and a 99.7% survival rate.

 

Talk about fear...mongering!

It's NOT 99% asymptomatic. Show me sutdies where this has been found. And there is a difference between pre-symptomatic (which is most cases) and asymptomatic for the entire course of the infection (which is about 20% on average, over several studies. How many of those 99.7% had severe covid with long term effects. It does actually damage the lungs, you know. 

[Thingamabob]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Come on.  If the death certificate says cause of death was CV19, then it was CV19.  Sure, being elderly or having underlying problems exacerbates things.  But this is a line typically used by covid deniers.  Along with the 99.7% survival rate.

 

Hospitals were paid a bit more for covid patients, but there is NO evidence they abused this. None.  There's a reason the US reported the highest number of covid deaths.  Poor leadership and politics.

 

You really need a better source for your news.  this might help:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

The issue of dying 'with covid' or dying 'of covid' remains unresolved. Hopefully post-pandemic reviews of governments performances will address this. Could dramatically alter the numbers.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Thingamabob said:

The issue of dying 'with covid' or dying 'of covid' remains unresolved. Hopefully post-pandemic reviews of governments performances will address this. Could dramatically alter the numbers.

Too much detail means there is a risk of not being able to see the woods............excess deaths is the real measure of what is happening.

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

The issue of dying 'with covid' or dying 'of covid' remains unresolved. Hopefully post-pandemic reviews of governments performances will address this. Could dramatically alter the numbers.

There is no issue except an imaginary one. Look at Sheryl's post near the top of the page.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

USA Today is nto a scientific journal. They are simply repeating unfounded claims made by others.

 

I guess the same should be said about thaivisa,  no ? 

 

  It is common knowledge (amongst intelligent people)  that almost everyone engages in confirmation bias.  ( and almost everyone denies it)   !

Confirmation bias is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.^[1] People display this bias when they select information that supports their views, ignoring contrary information, or when they interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing attitudes. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.

 

example in the post above :   "They are simply repeating unfounded claims   made by others"  

Of course the posters's claims are always correct ............ while others are "unfounded" 

Isn't this the substance of almost every "debate"  here and in real life ?

 

The governments,  large corporations,  medical industry, etc etc  all make claims that , with the help of the long lost art of real investigative journalism ,many many "facts and pronouncements and denials..etc"  have eventually been exposed s lies.   Before being exposed........ they were of course just "unfounded claims"

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by rumak

[Pilotman]

it was a meaningless, political  BS phase when FDR used it, it still is.