What can I invest in?

[ding]

2 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

I guess someone hasn't quite wrapped his head around the concept of inflation and zero/near zero interest rates. Perhaps understand those concepts first before giving out "investment advice"?

"Cash is trash"

-Ray Dalio, 2021

[KannikaP]

57 minutes ago, covidiot said:

I'm with you regarding financial investors. 

They make their money by taking 2-3% of people's savings. 

 

At least that much. I was stung setting up a QROPS for almost 10% initial setup fees, and horrendous ongoing charges which I cannot get out of without 55% tax to Boris.

[covidiot]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

At least that much. I was stung setting up a QROPS for almost 10% initial setup fees, and horrendous ongoing charges which I cannot get out of without 55% tax to Boris.

That's pretty bad. it's usually not that high.

But it's all a game of fees. That's how the game works. And they have no obligation to get you returns. Many years, when the markets don't do well, they get 0 per cent or negative returns. But they still collect fees. 

[Lacessit]

13 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

Some

 

others are purchased because of hopes/expectations of appreciation in value

Then they are not an investment, they are a punt.

 

[skatewash]

3 hours ago, BenDeCosta said:

 

They told me that they don't offer this account to foreigners.

Really?  I'm a foreigner and I opened mine about six years ago.  If you are referring to opening it online (the 1.5% APR interest one), I never tried to open that one as it wasn't offered back then that I know of.  Maybe the special online rate is not open to foreigners.  But I had no problem opening the in-person Mee Tae Dai account (currently 1.1 % APR interest) with only my passport on a retirement visa.

Maybe try again, or try at a different Krungsri Bank branch.

Also, I should have mentioned that if you don't already have one get a Thai Tax ID number (mysteriously called a yellow card, but it is white) from your local Thai revenue department office.  Open the account with this number and they will not withhold interest from the first baht earned.  I think they will start withholding 15% for taxes when accrued interest exceeds 20,000 baht.  You can get that withheld interest back by filing a personal income tax return at the revenue department office.  If you open the account without a Thai Tax ID number they will withhold interest from the first baht earned.  This tax withholding thing applies to all banks and all savings accounts.  

[charliechoc]

3 hours ago, ding said:

Americans rush to dump their USD for say... toilet paper, and the US government

let me finish your sentence..

'and the US government are forced to accept bitcoin or their own digital currency potentially pegged to bitcoin'

[ding]

2 minutes ago, charliechoc said:

let me finish your sentence..

'and the US government are forced to accept bitcoin or their own digital currency potentially pegged to bitcoin'

I could see a sovereign blockchain asset, acting like a bond, a promise to pay. Do you see it as a sovereign digital currency? Would anyone buy it? Will anyone buy a Chinese version?

[MarleyMarl]

20 hours ago, stubuzz said:

How do you get started with mutual funds?

 

I just opened a bank account at a Krungsri branch and KFSDIV fund at the same time. When I login online, there is options to buy into many of their funds.

 

I also tried opening a Thai stock account with them, but as usual with most things like this in Thailand, they have no idea how to service foreigners. They said I had to go to Planchet branch to open, then I said no, then they got me on the phone with someone, who said they'd email the docs, never got them. Missed out on buying some Thai stocks at 40-50% off ????

[GrandPapillon]

6 hours ago, mjnaus said:

 

I guess someone hasn't quite wrapped his head around the concept of inflation and zero/near zero interest rates. Perhaps understand those concepts first before giving out "investment advice"?

right, because losing money in crappy investment will definitely beat the inflation erosion of your capital :rolleyes:

[mjnaus]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

right, because losing money in crappy investment will definitely beat the inflation erosion of your capital :rolleyes:

 

Good point! If only there were investments that make money instead of loose it.... ???? ????

[GrandPapillon]

2 hours ago, mjnaus said:

 

Good point! If only there were investments that make money instead of loose it.... ???? ????

yeah indeed, if only they fell from trees like good apples, and the timing was always perfect to engage in them ????

 

it's not like there is over 50% chance you will choose wrong, and will lose money when you have no clue where to look,

 

so maybe cash with a small 0.5% "technical" erosion might be better return than the possible 20% future loss you will get in this bubble market, at the exact time when you will not be looking ????

[1FinickyOne]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Then they are not an investment, they are a punt.

 

what you call punts is gambling, I assume?

 

There is going to be risk but long term, some simple research or not - and markets go up... you invest in things like the S&P 500 and the nasdaq and DIA.. individual companies or index funds and historically they go up through time... these are investments... and if you do it properly, and let them compound through the years, your risk goes down and your ship comes in... 

 

all life has an element of gambling I guess... pull up a chart of the S&P over the last 50 years... see if you think it is still a punt... 

[gearbox]

On 5/27/2021 at 12:12 PM, xzyv said:

I'm from South Africa and I'm in my mid 20's going late 20's. I think I will stay  in Thailand for not more than 10years. Investment timeline I want it to be for at least 10 years too. 

 

Yes, it's 50k Thai baht. So I would like to make the investments here in Thailand. 

Thank you.

Follow the advice above and invest in improving your earning capabilities. You have many years ahead to make much more money.

[gearbox]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:07 PM, khunPer said:

You can open a SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand) trading account with most, if not all, bank in Thailand: I use Bangkok and SCB, and both are excellent, and probably so are other banks.

 

Some banks might have a minimum for opening a trading account, either 30k baht for opening, or 10k baht for transferring funds into an account. You need a normal savings account in same bank connected to your trading account, a account from where you move funds into the trading platform, and gains out. Dividends will automatically be paid to your connected savings account after 10 percent tax has been withheld; you don't need to report anything further for income tax.

 

SET has to my experience a number of fine dividend paying companies to invest in. In average you can expect around 3 percent dividend after tax – some companies pays more, and some pays less – and a gain of the trading value of the stock, depending of the level of paid dividend and business sector, so the 6-7 percent I mentioned in my earlier comment fits quite well. You might however be able to beat that 6-7 percent level by choosing the "right" stocks, a gain of 50 percent is not impossible, depending of the risk you are willing to take; but higher risk also means risk of bigger loss.

 

On SET you buy stocks in lots of 100, so if a stock is priced 10 baht each, you cannot buy for less than 1,000 baht – or preferably buy 1,000 shares for 10,000 baht – whilst if a stock is priced 400 baht each, the minimum lot will be 40,000 baht, and might not be of interest with a 50k baht investment. To make a spread of risk, and not buying to small lots, you should look in buying lots of 10k baht to 15k baht, for example buying stocks in 3 to 5 companies.

 

Reinvest your dividends, if you wish your savings to grow...????

I wish you good luck..????

khunPer,  any SET stocks recommendation for good dividends? I had a look at a few and the dividends were not that great compared to some Australian stocks.

[The Cipher]

Wow.

 

On 5/26/2021 at 12:29 PM, GrandPapillon said:

keep the 50K in cash, that's your best investment at this stage, at least you are not losing money

 

There is

 

On 5/27/2021 at 10:01 AM, AndyAndyAndy said:

...where you are guaranteed...

 

But with 50k Baht I would just go into a Bitcoin.

 

so much

 

18 hours ago, Logosone said:

50K is actually the perfect amount to trade in Forex. You could open a nice account and make a fortune trading foreign currencies, Bitcoin, Gold or even Indices.

 

almost unbelievably bad

 

5 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

right, because losing money in crappy investment will definitely beat the inflation erosion of your capital

 

investment advice in this thread.

 

People should have to post their qualifications and performance track record along with any financial advice they give, honestly.

 

---

If ฿50k is the sum of your net worth, then you don't want to take any investment risk at the moment. A serious downturn in your investments at the same time as a job loss sends you to zero immediately with no safety net.
 

The first thing you want to do is save until you have basic cash savings of ~฿300k. You can keep that in any checking account, or you can put it in a liquid savings account if you want, but the interest here isn't important. This is your buffer in case your cash flow ever unexpectedly goes to zero.

 

Hopefully that will never happen, but if does, now you have some emergency cash to tide you over while you find a new job or to book a ticket home to SA etc.

 

Once you have your ~฿300k saved, you can start looking at taking a bit of investment risk. Stress on 'a bit' here. ฿300k isn't hard to blow through, so at this point you're still at the stage where you are building your financial foundation.

 

Start looking around for tax advantaged brokerage accounts (for stock trading) that you might qualify for. What you want is something that shields you from taxes on your investment gains. Examples are a Roth IRA (USA) or a TFSA (Canada). Not sure if Thailand or South Africa have anything like this, but at least look.

 

If you can't find a tax advantaged account, just open any brokerage account that lets you trade stocks. Ideally you want to find a broker with low or no commissions and an easy interface so that you can learn the ropes. Ideally your brokerage platform will give you access to trade on US exchanges (they contain most products).

 

At this point, find 2-3 broad market ETFs that you believe in. An ETF is basically a basket of assets that share some underlying theme. You buy a share of the ETF and it gives you exposure to everything in that basket. Examples are: an ETF that tracks the S&P 500, an ETF that tracks the performance of Indian stocks, an ETF that tracks Chinese stocks, etc. ETFs are traded on exchanges and can be accessed through your brokerage.

 

What you pick is up to you - just make sure that (i) it tracks a broad enough market that you get diversification; and (ii) that you believe the direction of the markets that you choose to track will be up over time.

 

These ETFs constitute the second part of your emergency money. But unlike the ฿300k cash in the first part, they give your money a chance to appreciate over time. These are intended to be relatively safe long horizon plays.

 

You want to buy into these ETFs by dollar cost averaging (DCA). That basically means that you don't try to time the market - you just make a contribution (ideally of the same amount) at the same time each month. For example: On the first Monday of every month you buy $XX worth of the S&P500. DCAing helps you buy more units when prices are cheaper and less when they're more expensive.

 

You want to do this second part until you have at least ฿700,000 allocated to your core ETF positions. Ideally you will never have to sell these, and they will compound over the course of your life. These ETFs will not make you rich. They exist to give you a stable baseline that should increase in value a bit each year (maybe on average 5-10% if chosen properly).

 

Along with the previously saved ฿300,000, this means that you will have a total of ฿1,000,000 that you will ideally never touch (one exception is that the ETF position can be used as a down payment for a property). If you run into financial trouble, use the ฿300k cash buffer first before selling your securities.

 

---

Ok. So after you've saved that ฿1M you can start to think about riskier investments. Like individual stocks or options or crypto or whatever. Come back at that point and ask for next steps (too hard predict what markets will be like at that time)????.

 

Yes. You are going to hear other people with better investment performance than you. But they are taking more risk for that performance. Don't chase big gains until you're stable, and then only chase with money that you don't need.

 

---

Now - I'm gonna be real a little bit. It sounds like your biggest issue is actually income. If you're stressing about where to put ฿50k, you're stressing about the wrong thing. The best use of your time would be to figure out how you can save materially more cash at the end of the month .

 

If you're in your 20s, so your biggest asset is time. Spend your weekend evenings learning a new skill for a higher income career, or starting a side hustle that you can potentially scale into a full time business. You are worth more than your current salary.

[gearbox]

On 5/28/2021 at 11:33 PM, charliechoc said:

Just bc communist china tries to ban something doesn't mean a western democracy will. The oz govt seem to be ok about it as long as their citizens pay CGT tax. The west rarely follow China on anything. Much the opposite

Don't be so sure....the Labor seems to be favoring much tighter regulation:

 

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/government-liable-for-crypto-losses-unregulated-advice-labor-20210520-p57tm6

 

"But opposition financial services spokesman Stephen Jones said the government’s laissez-faire attitude was irresponsible and born of a desire to avoid the thorny task of regulating digital assets.

“It really is extraordinary that the government is encouraging Australians to swim outside the flags,” Mr Jones told The Australian Financial Review. “Because that’s what they’re doing when they buy and trade in a non-regulated currency. If the government is encouraging people to swim outside the flags then they’re liable for an accident that occurs as a result."

“They can only duck this for so long but this is not going away.”

 

 

[Sametboy2019]

Crypto. Digital currency is the future and anyone who tells you any different doesn't know what they are talking about.

Some of us will remember landline phones where alot of people especially in the developing world wouldn't know about this as they went straight to mobile devices. The future of banking will be the same. No books, branches or cards. All digital paid through your phone or maybe as the Bible says a mark of the beast(chip).

Forget meme coins and look at iso 20022 coins. It doesn't take that long to do some research. The current banking system is done. Countries printing money like toilet paper.

The ex treasurer of the US has just joined Ripple. Her name is on the money and she has joined them even though they are in a lawsuit with the SEC. If that doesn't say something I don't know what does.

It will be a bumpy ride and if you are a nervous type then better to stay away from crypto.

 

[charliechoc]

9 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Don't be so sure....the Labor seems to be favoring much tighter regulation:

 

https://www.afr.com/politics/federal/government-liable-for-crypto-losses-unregulated-advice-labor-20210520-p57tm6

 

"But opposition financial services spokesman Stephen Jones said the government’s laissez-faire attitude was irresponsible and born of a desire to avoid the thorny task of regulating digital assets.

“It really is extraordinary that the government is encouraging Australians to swim outside the flags,” Mr Jones told The Australian Financial Review. “Because that’s what they’re doing when they buy and trade in a non-regulated currency. If the government is encouraging people to swim outside the flags then they’re liable for an accident that occurs as a result."

“They can only duck this for so long but this is not going away.”

 

 

boring blah blah from nanny state politicians. I dont care. I bought btc a long time ago and never sold it. Thailand is accepting it slowly. They are gradually regulating this sector. But its all good

[Sametboy2019]

1 minute ago, charliechoc said:

boring blah blah from nanny state politicians. I dont care. I bought btc a long time ago and never sold it. Thailand is accepting it slowly. They are gradually regulating this sector. But its all good

There will be people who say not to invest in Crypto but yesterday rules will not shape the future.

Innovation will and all Innovation is always frowned upon until it's too late to join the ride.

[gearbox]

15 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Crypto. Digital currency is the future and anyone who tells you any different doesn't know what they are talking about.

Some of us will remember landline phones where alot of people especially in the developing world wouldn't know about this as they went straight to mobile devices. The future of banking will be the same. No books, branches or cards. All digital paid through your phone or maybe as the Bible says a mark of the beast(chip).

Forget meme coins and look at iso 20022 coins. It doesn't take that long to do some research. The current banking system is done. Countries printing money like toilet paper.

The ex treasurer of the US has just joined Ripple. Her name is on the money and she has joined them even though they are in a lawsuit with the SEC. If that doesn't say something I don't know what does.

It will be a bumpy ride and if you are a nervous type then better to stay away from crypto.

 

Wondering if they pay the ex-treasurer with crypto or toilet paper?

[Sametboy2019]

1 minute ago, gearbox said:

Wondering if they pay the ex-treasurer with crypto or toilet paper?

She jumped ship for a reason.

[covidiot]

23 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Digital currency is the future and anyone

I don't know much about this stuff.

But a recent article claims that the central banks will have their own digital currency soon. 

And this could mean the end of traditional banking.

But that doesn't mean everyone who invests in crypto will get rich. 

 

 

[The Cipher]

36 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Crypto. Digital currency is the future and anyone who tells you any different doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

Lol. Our OP absolutely does not need crypto exposure at this time. Dude has a net worth of ฿50k and you want to put it all (literally his life savings) into a high vol, speculative asset?

 

Not to mention that 'crypto' is so extremely broad. Can you imagine if he took your advice and aped into a sh-tcoin?

 

I have long crypto exposure, but boy is that the wrong answer for OP at this stage.

[The Hammer2021]

On 5/27/2021 at 3:09 AM, fdsa said:

invest only in stuff you understand well.

If you do not understand stocks or cryptocurrencies - do not invest in them. If you can only teach - invest in a decent PC & good microphone & webcam and supplement your "offline" teaching in the school with paid consultations online.

What kind of paid consultation?

[The Hammer2021]

56 minutes ago, charliechoc said:

boring blah blah from nanny state politicians. I dont care. I bought btc a long time ago and never sold it. Thailand is accepting it slowly. They are gradually regulating this sector. But its all good

Buying cryptocurrencies is dead easy..selling it is more difficult

[Sametboy2019]

24 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

 

Lol. Our OP absolutely does not need crypto exposure at this time. Dude has a net worth of ฿50k and you want to put it all (literally his life savings) into a high vol, speculative asset?

 

Not to mention that 'crypto' is so extremely broad. Can you imagine if he took your advice and aped into a sh-tcoin?

 

I have long crypto exposure, but boy is that the wrong answer for OP at this stage.

As I said a iso20022 coin

[Sametboy2019]

40 minutes ago, covidiot said:

I don't know much about this stuff.

But a recent article claims that the central banks will have their own digital currency soon. 

And this could mean the end of traditional banking.

But that doesn't mean everyone who invests in crypto will get rich. 

 

 

Of course not. Even with individual digital currencies for every country there is still the opportunity for coins that have utility.

Swift will become obsolete. There are coins that can transfer money almost instantly and for pennies.

Ones like XLM, XRP or XDC can all do this. Although I don't see a one world currency for a long while I believe the current scrutiny on crypto will result in regulations and that will see the real utility coins come to the front and maybe half a dozen coins will be utilized in a currency format hence my belief in iso20022 coins.

[gearbox]

5 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

Of course not. Even with individual digital currencies for every country there is still the opportunity for coins that have utility.

Swift will become obsolete. There are coins that can transfer money almost instantly and for pennies.

Ones like XLM, XRP or XDC can all do this. Although I don't see a one world currency for a long while I believe the current scrutiny on crypto will result in regulations and that will see the real utility coins come to the front and maybe half a dozen coins will be utilized in a currency format hence my belief in iso20022 coins.

 

ISO 20022 is a standard for "Universal financial industry message scheme"

 

It covers these things:

 

It describes a common platform for the development of messages using:

• a modelling methodology to capture in a syntax-independent way financial business areas, business transactions and associated message flows

• a central dictionary of business items used in financial communications

• a set of XML and ASN.1 design rules to convert the message models into XML or ASN.1 schemas, whenever the use of the ISO 20022 XML or ASN.1-based syntax is preferred

 

Now..I'm pretty sure that 99% plus of the so-called crypto retail investors don't have a slightest idea what the above means.

 

 

[The Cipher]

23 minutes ago, Sametboy2019 said:

As I said a iso20022 coin

 

Gotta do a better job separating opinion from fact. The crypto asset class is still so young. There are no slam dunks. You may end up being right, but what if you aren't?

 

The OP is currently exposed to a ton of standard of living risk (SLR) and it's irresponsible to recommend that he go down that route without a base layer to offset some of that extreme SLR. He can risk-on after he's financially stable.

[ChrisP24]

1 hour ago, The Cipher said:

 

Lol. Our OP absolutely does not need crypto exposure at this time. Dude has a net worth of ฿50k and you want to put it all (literally his life savings) into a high vol, speculative asset?

 

Not to mention that 'crypto' is so extremely broad. Can you imagine if he took your advice and aped into a sh-tcoin?

 

I have long crypto exposure, but boy is that the wrong answer for OP at this stage.

 

Agreed.  Even the mainstream financial advisors who are starting to look at crypto are suggesting that no more than 1% of a person's portfolio should be in that sector.  I personally like crypto and am adding small amounts, but it's under a 1% allocation.  I hope that it becomes a much higher percentage, but if it does it'll be a result of holding appreciated crypto rather than buying it. ????

 

Having living expenses put aside in cash or cash-equivalent, then starting to build index mutual fund holdings would be the advice most likely to serve OP well in the long term.  Then maybe later start putting small amounts into investments higher up the risk spectrum.   

 

Some of the advice about adding ways to make money in a side hustle are also good if OP has the interest and aptitude and desire to put the effort into making it work, knowing that there's a real risk that it won't work out (but that's how a person gains experience and gets smarter so it is still worthwhile in that sense)