Ivermectin

[Captain Monday]

9 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Can you see into the future ? Do you know why clinical trials take so long ?

I care nothing if 10 billion doses have been given. We will not know the consequences of this for years.

What vaccines have shown negative side effects manifested after years?

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

1-2% of the already extremely sick section of the population would die (maybe as much as 5%).

No big loss IMHO.

No big loss?  Tell that to the people denied hospital beds because hospitals are infection hotspots overflowing with Covid patients.  And tell it to those "lucky" enough to be admitted to hospital but kept in isolation from their families because of the infection risk.

 

Then there are the 10% to 15% of people who suffer long-Covid after infection and are at reduced capacity for months, possibly years, after initial infection.  Many of these people were young and healthy prior to infection.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Harveyg said:

The problem is not that it's well documented, but rather poorly communicated.  Mainstream media and govt institutions do not communicate this kind of information.  

That raises the question, why??   

 

My conclusion?: Follow the money.

Please give us links to credible sources showing people have died because of the Covid 19 vaccination.

[orchis]

you are not a horse,
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/fda-horse-message-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll posts removed.  

 

[canthai55]

9 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The FDA has given full approval for the Pfizer vaccine. 

Yesterday - so when I posted that Covid vaccines were issued due to an Emergency Use Authorization I was correct.

Pfizer was until 23 Aug - not before.

The term 'skin of your teeth' comes to mind

"The Food and Drug Administration has formally approved Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine. The widely anticipated decision replaces the emergency use authorization granted by the agency last December."

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/08/23/1030251410/pfizer-covid-vaccine-fda-approval

Now just hope the rest of the vaccines released under EUA get full approval.

[canthai55]

5 hours ago, orchis said:

you are not a horse,
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/fda-horse-message-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus

Back on topic ...

 

“You should not take any medication to treat or prevent Covid-19 unless it has been prescribed to you by your healthcare provider and acquired from a legitimate source.”

 

Healthcare provider = Doctor and hospital you PAY

Legitimate source = Big Pharma

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement - they will never admit that other treatments work. They will never approve something they can not make beaucoup bucks on.

 

The FDA is well known for being in bed with Big Pharma - why would you believe anything they say ? They used to recommend cigarettes !

 

Most people will take human sized doses - any Yahoo who takes as much as you give a horse ... well, he is one part of that horse for sure.

 

Does it work - unknown.

Might it work - yes

 

 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Back on topic ...

 

“You should not take any medication to treat or prevent Covid-19 unless it has been prescribed to you by your healthcare provider and acquired from a legitimate source.”

 

Healthcare provider = Doctor and hospital you PAY

Legitimate source = Big Pharma

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement - they will never admit that other treatments work. They will never approve something they can not make beaucoup bucks on.

 

The FDA is well known for being in bed with Big Pharma - why would you believe anything they say ? They used to recommend cigarettes !

 

Most people will take human sized doses - any Yahoo who takes as much as you give a horse ... well, he is one part of that horse for sure.

 

Does it work - unknown.

Might it work - yes

 

 

Vaccines:  Do they work - yes.

 

Intermectin:  Does it work - unknown.

 

When did the FDA recommend cigarettes?

 

I prefer regulated drugs from Big Pharma as opposed to unregulated and unproven stuff from snake oil salesmen.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/23/2021 at 9:14 AM, canthai55 said:

Like the 4 to 5 years normally required ?

I gotta get the calendar 2.0 I guess

There is no standard of "4 to 5 years normally" for vaccine clinical trials.

 

The standard for completing a successful clinical trial is gathering enough data to show both efficacy and safety.

 

There is no prescribed time period that is required for that data to be gathered. For the CoViD-19 vaccines, the yardstick was finding enough people in the trials who contracted the disease, for the results to be statistically significant. So it was based on number of infections, not the time it took.

 

In the past, total development time from the beginning of the preliminary research to final, full approval could take 5 years (sometimes even 10 years or more).

 

However much of that was in trying to find a vaccine that worked at all, even in a lab. Older vaccine development methods involved trying to find a way to damage or disable the original virus enough that it couldn't cause disease, while still leaving enough of it intact to elicit a robust immune response.

 

For very many years, this was basically a hit and miss process. Years would be spent, just to find a vaccine that was suitable to even start human trials.

 

Because of the advances in vaccine technology in recent years, it no longer takes years and years to find a candidate for human clinical trials.

 

This is especially true of the mRNA and viral vector vaccines. All that was needed for them, was a copy of the genetic code for the virus and a vaccine could be (and was) designed within a couple of days, that was highly likely to be effective in lab and animal trials and could then move on into human trials without spending the years finding a viable candidate that it used to take in the past.

 

It's also true, though to a lesser extent, of inactivated virus vaccine technology, as precise molecular biology techniques are available nowadays that disable the exact  parts of the virus that a successful vaccine requires, with hardly any trial and error involved.

 

Also, in the past the different trial phases were spread out, with sometimes 6 months to a year (or more) between them, mainly because there was no ongoing global pandemic of a novel virus with no therapeutics available and so no particular need to move quickly.

 

As a prominent virologist said recently (I'm paraphrasing), asking why these vaccines could be created in under a year when it used to take 5 or more, is like asking why we can now cross the Atlantic in hours when it used to take weeks in the 1800's.

 

Just as transportation technology has improved and speeded things up, so has vaccine technology.

Edited August 24, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Back on topic ...

 

“You should not take any medication to treat or prevent Covid-19 unless it has been prescribed to you by your healthcare provider and acquired from a legitimate source.”

 

Healthcare provider = Doctor and hospital you PAY

Legitimate source = Big Pharma

 

Hardly a ringing endorsement - they will never admit that other treatments work. They will never approve something they can not make beaucoup bucks on.

 

The FDA is well known for being in bed with Big Pharma - why would you believe anything they say ? They used to recommend cigarettes !

 

Most people will take human sized doses - any Yahoo who takes as much as you give a horse ... well, he is one part of that horse for sure.

 

Does it work - unknown.

Might it work - yes

 

 

The medical community says you are wrong.

 

I know you have strong opinions on Ivermectin, but you are neither a scientist nor a physician.  No one should listen to you, instead of following the advice of a qualified professional.

[canthai55]

33 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The medical community says you are wrong.

 

I know you have strong opinions on Ivermectin, but you are neither a scientist nor a physician.  No one should listen to you, instead of following the advice of a qualified professional.

I have no feeling for it one way or the other.

I am not asking ANYONE to listen to me, only giving my opinion on a public internet forum, as you are yourself.

I DO have strong feelings on the "word" of agencies like the FDA and especially Big Pharma. Especially when they are in bed - literally or figuratively - together.

Lie to me once - shame on you.

Lie to me twice - shame on me

 

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

I have no feeling for it one way or the other.

I am not asking ANYONE to listen to me, only giving my opinion on a public internet forum, as you are yourself.

I DO have strong feelings on the "word" of agencies like the FDA and especially Big Pharma. Especially when they are in bed - literally or figuratively - together.

Lie to me once - shame on you.

Lie to me twice - shame on me

 

The phrase is "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me."

 

A politician recently left office who was notorious for lying.  The only people who should feel shame are the ones who consistently believed his lies.  Oh...and the lying politician; though I think he's totally shameless.

 

[HappyExpat57]

There's no question the FDA is crooked as a dog's hind leg. As such, the creators of ivermectin would gladly send their version of brown envelopes and the FDA would accept them if there were any chance this animal deworming product was viable for Covid. Instead, the FDA posted this (as a result of many calls to the Poison Control Center because people were getting sick from taking ivermectin):

 

[Danderman123]

7 hours ago, canthai55 said:

I have no feeling for it one way or the other.

I am not asking ANYONE to listen to me, only giving my opinion on a public internet forum, as you are yourself.

I DO have strong feelings on the "word" of agencies like the FDA and especially Big Pharma. Especially when they are in bed - literally or figuratively - together.

Lie to me once - shame on you.

Lie to me twice - shame on me

 

Uniformed people on the internet vs the FDA.

 

hmmm.. such a difficult choice.

 

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, canthai55 said:

There is a correlation between the 2 - of course there is.

 

 

The correlation is, without Covid, millions of people with chronic illnesses would still be alive.

[Danderman123]

3 hours ago, HappyExpat57 said:

There's no question the FDA is crooked as a dog's hind leg. As such, the creators of ivermectin would gladly send their version of brown envelopes and the FDA would accept them if there were any chance this animal deworming product was viable for Covid. Instead, the FDA posted this (as a result of many calls to the Poison Control Center because people were getting sick from taking ivermectin):

 

Nope.

 

you have no idea how any of this works, do you?

 

why do you trust your internet friends who send you misinformation, instead of, you know, real doctors and scientists?

 

if, God forbid, you were hospitalized, Would you really want some random person on the internet to treat you, or would you prefer an actual doctor with an actual medical degree who follows FDA advice?

[Danderman123]

I can’t believe that we have people here recommending the use of horse de-wormer for human consumption and condemning FDA approved vaccines.

 

Approximately 70% of recent calls to the Mississippi Poison Control Center are in reference to Invermectin ingestion, according to notice released by the Mississippi Department of Health

 

please stop promoting poison.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Danderman123

[Will B Good]

 

 

‘You are not a horse’: FDA tells Americans stop taking dewormer for Covid

Agency issues message after misinformation about ivermectin, a medicine used to deworm livestock, spreads on social media

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/23/fda-horse-message-ivermectin-covid-coronavirus?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Edited August 24, 2021 by Will B Good

[onthedarkside]

A series of posts and replies have been removed for being off-topic and unsourced/unsubstantiated.

[Danderman123]

13 hours ago, canthai55 said:

The FDA is well known for being in bed with Big Pharma - why would you believe anything they say ? They used to recommend cigarettes !

 

That is a lie.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_tobacco_by_the_U.S._Food_and_Drug_Administration

 

Your internet  friends have misinformed you.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Danderman123

[GroveHillWanderer]

Quote

 

On 8/23/2021 at 2:37 PM, canthai55 said:

Clinical trials

Phase 1 - several months

Phase 2 - several months to 2 years

Phase 3 - 1 to 4 years

FDA approval

Phase 4 - This phase is often called “Post-Approval Research and Monitoring.” After a new treatment is approved by the FDA, the pharmaceutical or device company may want to continue monitoring patients to learn more about the treatment’s longer-term effects, while comparing it against other already-approved options. It may take time for long-term side effects to appear, making this an important phase.

https://www.antidote.me/blog/how-long-do-clinical-trial-phases-take

That's an article about clinical trials for therapeutic medicines, not vaccines.

 

Vaccines and therapeutics are two completely different classes of drugs and there are different considerations for them.

 

For instance, therapeutic drugs can remain in a person's body for a long time and the repeated doses that are often taken, can cause levels to build up over time. That's why the initial phase 3 trials usually go on for years, and why longer term follow up on phase 4 is also needed to look out for longer term adverse effects.

 

Vaccine phase 3 trials only need to go on for long enough to show safety and efficacy. As far as safety goes, it's a question of having enough people to reveal any rare side effects that only show up in a larger population group.

 

There's no safety-related reason for vaccine trials to go on for years because with vaccines (unlike therapeutics) any adverse effects occur within the first few weeks after administration.

 

No vaccine has ever been shown to have long term side effects, mainly because there's no biological mechanism that could cause them.

 

See the different quotes below from scientists illustrating this.

 

Quote

"There's also the fact that if a vaccine does have a side effect, it will likely show up in the first 6 to 8 weeks of use," Offit said.

 

Quote

"Of all the vaccines we use, in infancy, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, none of them have any long-term effects," Schaffner said.

 

Quote

"No vaccine has shown side effects 2 to 5 years later. That doesn't exist because there's no biological reason for it."

Is Old Vaccine Technology the Key to Hesitancy?

Edited August 25, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[Harry Om]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:58 PM, Captain Monday said:

What vaccines have shown negative side effects manifested after years?

"An increased risk of narcolepsy was found following vaccination with Pandemrix, a monovalent 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine that was used in several European countries during the H1N1 influenza pandemic. This risk was initially found in Finland, and then other European countries also detected an association."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

[Harry Om]

Scott Gottlieb FDA director resigns and becomes a member of Pfizer's board of Directors.

 

Stephen Hahn replaces Gottlieb and then resigns to become Moderna's chief medical officer.

 

Seems legit.

[Harry Om]

On 8/24/2021 at 1:05 AM, heybruce said:

Please give us links to credible sources showing people have died because of the Covid 19 vaccination.

Australian data for AZ,

 

"No deaths have been reported in the last week. Six deaths have been reported over the preceding 4 months – 5 of the 6 deaths occurred in women aged 34, 48 (2 cases), 52 and 72-years-old. The other death was in a 44-year-old man. "

https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-19-08-2021

 

A friend of mine in India got clots after AZ. She was cremated a week ago.

 

 

[HeijoshinCool]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:05 PM, heybruce said:

Please give us links to credible sources showing people have died because of the Covid 19 vaccination.

.

Please give us links to credible sources showing people have not died because of the Covid 19 vaccination.....

[Rookiescot]

Guys its your body and you can do as you like with it but why would a medicine for deworming livestock work on a virus?

It simply does not make sense.

I know it is administered to humans as a one off dosage to counter things like nits but its not meant to be taken on a regular basis.

Where are the trials of regular Ivermectin consumption in humans? 

The same standard you apply to the now proven (almost 100% safe) covid vaccines.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Harry Om said:

"An increased risk of narcolepsy was found following vaccination with Pandemrix, a monovalent 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine that was used in several European countries during the H1N1 influenza pandemic. This risk was initially found in Finland, and then other European countries also detected an association."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

If you read the entire article (it's short), you see no details of this increase in narcolepsy are given and follow-on studies fail to uncover the same increase in any country but Sweden.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, Harry Om said:

Australian data for AZ,

 

"No deaths have been reported in the last week. Six deaths have been reported over the preceding 4 months – 5 of the 6 deaths occurred in women aged 34, 48 (2 cases), 52 and 72-years-old. The other death was in a 44-year-old man. "

https://www.tga.gov.au/periodic/covid-19-vaccine-weekly-safety-report-19-08-2021

 

A friend of mine in India got clots after AZ. She was cremated a week ago.

 

 

From your source:

 

" This takes the total Australian reports assessed as TTS following the AstraZeneca vaccine to 112 cases (62 confirmed, 50 probable) from approximately 8.1 million vaccine doses. "

 

So a 0.0014% chance of dying from the AZ vaccination versus a 1% to 2% death rate for those who catch Covid 19.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, HeijoshinCool said:

.

Please give us links to credible sources showing people have not died because of the Covid 19 vaccination.....

Oh, so now I must prove a non-existence.  I'll do that after you provide credible proof there is no Easter Bunny.

[Harry Om]

6 hours ago, heybruce said:

If you read the entire article (it's short), you see no details of this increase in narcolepsy are given and follow-on studies fail to uncover the same increase in any country but Sweden.

"If you read the entire article (it's short)".

Comments like this are a childish way of discussing serious issues.

 

Why not the same increase? Later studies identified that the problem was genetic, so it was likely to occur in Scandinavian countries and not elsewhere. The other studies chose cohorts that did not include that group, that's why you didn't see any increase.