Retirement "o-a" Multiple Entry?

[pianoman]

Gentlemen,

I am about to apply for my "O-A" Retirement Visa from here in the U.S... I will need to travel in and out of Thailand maybe 3 or 4 times during that first year..

The questions is there such a thing as a "Multiple Entry" "O-A Retirement Visa", or will I need to obtain "Re-entry Permits" prior to each trip out??? Also, what is the procedure and time frames for obtaining such??? I will be residing in Kalasin / Khon Kaen area while in Thailand...

Thank you in advance for any and all information and aid...

Pianoman

[Rooo]

From my understanding,OA visa you do not have to leave the country.You only have to present yourself to immigration office or police station,every 90days.

[pianoman]

Roo,

Yes, you are correct... But what I am asking is if I need to leave and return several times during that year, what is the procedure / process... I know, it's crazy to think that anyone would want to leave after obtaining the rights to stay for a whole year, but business concerns make it required...

Pianoman

[Rooo]

Pianoman,I presume there should be no probs,you have your visa.The only prob I forsee is if you are out of the country during the reporting time.I think you should clarify this with your Thai Consulate there or immigration in Bangkok. All the best mate let me know as I'm doing the same as you.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

In the situation you describe, you need to get a multiple entry re-entry permit from Immigration in Thailand before you travel outside Thailand.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Thinking more about your case Piano, I suggest that you apply for a multi entry O non-imm visa,and not the O-A. There's a lot less hoops to crawl through ( no medicals at home or police clearance/s, or using a Notary Public ) Then you extend by a year at Immigration by doing a 50 baht medical at a Thai hospital ( if you walk in you pass ) and show a currentletter from your bank evidencing your funds. That is the way I would do it. The way I describe is the way you would be doing it in year 2 and beyond. That O visa enables unlimited entries of 90 days at a time

[hughden]

The Retirement Visa and the Multiple entry visa are two separate visas. Once you have the Retirement Visa you fill in a separate form for the multiple entry visa.

I did both in BKK but I would imagine you could do both from overseas; or arrive in Thailand and then apply for the multiple entry visa.

There appear to be no extra requirements once you have the Retirement Visa, just fill out the application and give them 3,800 Baht (and a photo I think; not sure why they wanted that!). I had my passport back within 10 minutes with the multiple entry stamp. Basically it is just a way of extracting more cash!

Hope this helps

Hugh

[redwood13]

Yes, when you fill out the visa application for the O-A it will have a space where you'll be asked "number of entries" and you can request "multiple". The form I filled out last October when I got my O-A also had a box to be checked for Non-Immigrant (B, Ed, O, O-A) with a choice of either $50/one entry or $125 multiple entry. (I think there are a couple of editions of this form in use and they are a bit different.) I requested multiple and that's what I got.

The visa itself has the line "Good for ......... journey (s)" and the word "multiple" is hand written in. If for some reason you don't get the multiple entry as a part of your O-A you can request a multiple re-entry permit after you've moved to Thailand or simply obtain single re-entry permits as required.

I did not find obtaining an O-A particularly difficult. But, DO NOT APPLY TO LOS ANGELES. Myself and several others that I know of have had bad experiences there. And as far as I know that is the only consulate that requires notarization of documents required for the O-A.

The criminal record clearance only requires a trip to your local police department with your driver's license. It's a routine request for them.

If you've been seeing a physician for routine physicals a phone call may be all you'll need to get a letter for the medical requirement.

Make it easy on your bank by typing up a sample letter for them to copy on their letterhead. Nothing much more than, "At the close of business day [date] the balance to your credit on our books........blah, blah".

Getting the O-A in the US you'll avoid trips to Suan Plu, Thai banks and maybe the US Embassy for the first year. And in your case you can come and go, carrying on with your business without having to concern yourself with the possiblilty of missing an appointment at immigration. You also won't have to worry about being rejected for an O visa based on retirement.

It's a great feeling to know that when you arrive at Don Muang at get stamped in for a year you're done!!!

(Feel free to PM me.)

-redwood

[pianoman]

Thanks to all... It sounds like Redwood's approach is the way to go, a Non-Img. OA w/ mulitple entries... I currently have a 180 Day Multiple (3 only) entry, which I obtained from the Consult here in Portland, OR.. It was quick and easy... They were very helpful...

I have a statement from my bank stating a continual balance of over 6 figures for the past 3 years, a statement from my previous employer stating that I am receiving $1600 to $2400 per month for Consulting, best friend is a doctor who is willing to provide/sign their silly medical statement, and the police report/statement should not present any problems... I will use the last of the 3 Entries from the 180 day Visa July & Aug... Return for maybe a month, then obtain the Non-Img. Mulitple Entry O-A while home in Sept.. Then I'm on my way to a New Life...

Thanks again to all....

Pianoman

[JimGant]

Pianoman,

Will your stays in Thailand be less than 90 days? That's my situation, plus maybe not being in Thailand at the same time every year to renew visa extension. So, it seems, at least for now, more practical for me to stay with the multiple entry non-immigrant 'O,' particularly since it's only a 10 minute drive to the Thai Embassy in DC. [but, if I had to do all this by registered mail every year, I'd probably go the visa extension route in Thailand, and figure out how to deal with the possibility of being out-of-county at anniversary time.] Also, being married to a Thai, I don't have a justification problem getting an 'O' every year. This maybe is not your situation....

But if your stays are going to exceed 90 days, a multiple entry O-A would be nice, since each time you re-enter Thailand, you get a 'valid for 365 days' stamp (am I remembering your experience correctly, Redwood?). Essentially, if you re-enter Thailand close to visa expiration date, you'll then have second year in Thailand without having to go to immigration for your first in-country extension. (But, I believe, the visa's multiple entry feature expires with the visa, so you would have to go to immigration for a multiple re-entry stamp.) Anyway, Redwood's experience with getting an O-A that I gleaned from his earlier posts have sure kept that option on the radar screen for me.

The only prob I forsee is if you are out of the country during the reporting time.

Roo, the 90-day reporting clock stops when you leave Thailand, and starts anew when you re-enter. The immigration computer knows 'you ain't here to report.'

[redwood13]

Pianoman,

[snip]

Will your stays in Thailand be less than 90 days? That's my situation, plus maybe not being in Thailand at the same time every year to renew visa extension.

But if your stays are going to exceed 90 days, a multiple entry O-A would be nice, since each time you re-enter Thailand, you get a 'valid for 365 days' stamp (am I remembering your experience correctly, Redwood?).

Essentially, if you re-enter Thailand close to visa expiration date, you'll then have second year in Thailand without having to go to immigration for your first in-country extension. (But, I believe, the visa's multiple entry feature expires with the visa, so you would have to go to immigration for a multiple re-entry stamp.) Anyway, Redwood's experience with getting an O-A that I gleaned from his earlier posts have sure kept that option on the radar screen for me.

[snip]

Jim has a good point, if you cannot be in Thailand because you have business to attend to near the date to extend your stay for another year you might have a problem.

Jim I've only had one experience re-entering Thailand on an O-A. I received my O-A in Oct. 2003 (good for "multiple" journeys) so it expires Oct. 2004. However in February I went to Sihanoukville, Cambodia for a couple of weeks. This was overland via Koh Kong. I returned to Thailand by flying from Phnom Pehn to Don Muang, Bankok. Immigration at Don Muang stamped me in for a full year so that I'm now admitted until Feb. 2005. So, I don't have to request an extension of my stay until then. But since the visa expires in Oct. I'll lose the benefit of the multiple entries this year - Oct. 2004. So, if I leave Thaland after Oct. 2004 I'd have to obtain a re-entry permit to maintain my status.

I checked with immigration here in Pattaya and they tell me this is correct.

-redwood

[JimGant]

Pianoman,

I currently have a 180 Day Multiple (3 only) entry, which I obtained from the Consult here in Portland, OR..

Out of curiosity, since there have been recently some discussions on duration of visas: Is this visa a Non-Immigrant 'O' or is it a Tourist 'TR' visa?

If an 'O,' was this what you wanted, i.e, three entries in 6-months, or did Portland dictate what you could get? And if a 'TR,' did you ask for three entries?

I know a lot of potential retirees would like to have a Non-Immigrant 'O' in order to recon Thailand before retiring -- and then either returning home to get an O-A visa, or extending their 'O' in Thailand before returning home and packing up.

Your original recon visa desires, and Portland's dealing with these, would be useful information.

Good luck in retirement.

[pianoman]

Jim,

My original 180 Day was a Tourist Visa with 3 Entries... I requested it as a "Mulitiple Enty" and they said that 3 Entries was the Max for a 180 Day.. I tried for a 1 year stating that I wanted to "Investigate the Possiblities" of retiring in Thailand, and they said that the 180 Day Tourist w/3 Entries was the best they could do...

As to the Multiple Entries on the Non-Img. O-A, I will only need to be leaving Thailand maybe two or 3 times for 2 weeks to a month at a time... And I will be able to dictate those time frames, so should not conflict with Visa Expiration...

Pianoman

[JimGant]

Pianoman,

they said that the 180 Day Tourist w/3 Entries was the best they could do...

If the Portland Consulate, being 'honorary' and thus more flexible, wouldn't give you an 'O' visa to enter Thailand for retirement purposes, then I suspect this may be the case with most consulates in the States. So, the alternative to the O-A, is getting a 'TR', hoping you can convert to an 'O' in Bangkok (no word on this forum that other immigration offices will convert), then go for the extension based on retirement.

A lot of loose ends; so it sure sounds like the O-A is less of a hassle (unless you're wanted for a felony and/or your doctor knows you have terminal syphlis )

Please let us know how it goes. I'm keeping copious notes on all of these alternatives.

Oh, in case you haven't searched all the threads on O-A: Be prepared to meet a perplexed immigration official at Don Muang, as O-A's aren't common. You may need to insist that a more veteran official check out your situation in order to get your "365 day stamp."

[ProThaiExpat]

Pianoman: Hopefully, you have made sense of the many preceeding posts.

Your topic question refers to a 'RETIREMENT" classification for a non-immigrant O-A visa.

You speak of providing the embassy of your choice a letter from your employer that states you will be receiving income for "consulting", which could be interpreted to be employment, something forbidden in the "retirement" classificaton.

You do need to clarify this issue, and perhaps a re-worded letter from your employer indicating your status is of a retired person receiving a pension from them. While you clearly can satisfy the financial responsibility requirements of 800K Baht on deposit in Thailand once you renew here, immigration will ask you what sort of retirement payments you will be receiving as they want to know from what source you will replenish your retirment fund as time goes on.

It would appear the only advantage to obtaining the retirement classification in the U.S. is that duty is waived on your household goods when entering Thailand.

Otherwise, gettting a reitirement classification is easier here in Thailand as indicated in my "canned" post detailed below.

"Basic “retirement” classification questions answered!

Terminology is important in this area!!

Normally, entry into Thailand, from a foreign country is accomplished with a VISA, obtained from a Thai consulate or embassy abroad.

Entry into Thailand without a VISA, is permitted at the airport for thirty days, for aliens from visa waiver countries and is based on an ENTRY PERMIT.

As explained by immigration on their website, VISAS are the sole province of Consulates and Embassies, entities attached to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Entry into Thailand without a visa, deportation from Thailand and regulation of the length of your stay, including entry and re-entry, are the province of the Department of Immigration, a police agency, staffed by police officers on assignment to the Immigration Department. The officer in charge of the Chiang Mai Immigration Department reminds us publicly, that immigration is a police agency, not a service agency and its function is to regulate, not provide a service.

There is no such thing as a RETIREMENT VISA.

There is a long stay classification for aliens termed "RETIRMENT" and the requirements to qualify for this classification is essentially a verified Thai bank account of 800,000 Baht (alternatively a pension) and being at least 50 years old.

The easiest way to get a long stay retirement classification is to do it in Thailand is on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building in Bangkok.

The difficulty in obtaining this classification abroad is the differing requirements from Consulate to Consulate and Embassy to Embassy and far more stringent than in Bangkok. Sydney’s consulate told me in no uncertain terms that each Consul General had the right to interpret the regulations any way he wanted and in Sydney, I needed a police clearance certificate from my home country, among many other things. Cambodia said forget it, don't even try.

The “long stay” retirement classification is based on a NON-IMMIGRANT O VISA (retirement) and a change to this visa classification can be accomplished in Thailand on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building in Bangkok only, providing you have entered Thailand with a VISA, even a tourist visa, as was the case with me.

It would appear that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs has given the authority to change visa classifications to the Immigration Department in this instance.

Thai immigration’s document “requirements list” is as follows” (obtained from their website)

Application for further stay to spend the remainder of life

in the Kingdom of Thailand

1. Immigration form 7 (Tor Mor 7)

2. Copy of passport

3. 4 cm. x 6 cm. photograph

4. 1,900 bath application fee

5. Financial Evidence:

- Bank account pass-book, bank statement

- Evidence showing reception of pension accompanied with Thai translation certified by the embassy or consulate of the country paying the pension

- Evidence presenting other sources of income or evidence of money transferred from overseas

6. In cases of having dependents (husband/wife, children), the applicant must provide evidence indication their relationship. Evidence must be translated into Thai and be certified by the embassy or consulate of the aliens.

7. Health Certificate for those who apply for further stay after Nov. 14,2002.

8. The officials reserve the rights to examine or ask for additional documents, if necessary.

Name Webmaster (203.156.96.*) [ Saturday 15 May 2004 เวลา 16:16 น ] Comment No: 1

To obtain your change of visa classification on the 3rd floor of the main immigration building, you need to take with you a bank letter stating you have the required minimum 800k Baht for the retirement classification in a bank account (anything other than a fixed rate account). The letter should include the date of the transfer of the funds into your account, the source institution of the funds and the country from which the funds came.

The STANDARD BANK LETTER, one that merely states the amount on deposit on any given day is INSUFFICIENT for the change of status process, while it is fine for any annual extension thereafter. This was the case with me, others may have got by with the standard letter.

There is an option to qualify for retirement financial status through pension verification, but that is a very difficult approach, requiring an Embassy verification of the pension. (You need strong pension entitlement or promises to pay letters for the Embassy to get their verification) The difficulty is the individual immigration officer involved may choose to explore the stability of the source of your pension. Conceivably, the pension could be terminated or suspended for a number of reasons during the year and you would then be left penniless, if no other funds were available. Thus a savings account in Thailand in addition to qualifying with a pension is a better approach if you can manage that. A combination of the two also qualify to meet the minimum requirement.

The health certificate that is required is obtainable from any emergency room of any hospital (preferred) or clinic. Exam may not even occur. 50 Baht or more is charged.

Your signature on all photocopies of all documents, including every page of your passport, is required.

4cm x 6cm colored photograph (suggest you take more than one).

No Embassy letter is required unless you are trying to qualify financial responsibility through a pension.

No police or criminal clearance document is required.

Dress very well, be extremely polite, try to keep your head at or below that of the officers involved, don't stand over them when they are seated as that is seen as very intimidating or threatening.

Most importantly, have a mental frame of mind that you will do ANYTHING required of you, including numerous trivial and unnecessary tasks when requested. Your mind set is that you are not going away, you are there to stay the course until the document sought is obtained.

Your first extension under your non-immigrant 0 (retirement) status will probably be for only 90 days. I was given two 90 day extensions and then an extension for the balance of the first year dated from when I entered the country.

Expect 30 days between the application and the approval, ie.two trips to immigration to allow for processing. After that, extensions can be obtained from any immigration office.

If you anticipate leaving Thailand on occasion in the forthcoming year, it is suggested that you obtain, at the time you apply for your retirement classification, a single or multiple re-entry permit. Once you have your retirement classification and leave the Kingdom, you lose your visa classification and must obtain another visa unless you have a re-entry permit. There is some information to suggest that a single re-entry permit is the only one to get as you lose the multiple re-entry permit after the first exit.

I will be happy to answer any specific questions you may still have regarding retirement classifications if you want to PM me or post it.

CAVEAT: Individual discretion is always a factor with immigration police officers, so don’t be shocked if your required to do other things or produce other documents. Remember, your there to do whatever is required by the individual officer to get your long stay classification. Humility goes a long way and feigning ignorance, even stupidity, will engender sympathy and a helpful attitude on the part of the immigration officer, to the point that he will actually help you to take care of the “problem”.

[astral]

Thinking more about your case Piano, I suggest that you apply for a multi entry O non-imm visa,and not the O-A. There's a lot less hoops to crawl through ( no medicals at home or police clearance/s, or using a Notary Public ) Then you extend by a year at Immigration by doing a 50 baht medical at a Thai hospital ( if you walk in you pass ) and show a currentletter from your bank evidencing your funds.

A multi-entry "O" visa is a waste of money if you are going to apply for the 1 year extension. A single entry Non Imm "O" is sufficient.

After 2 month here, go to the local immigration office and apply for the 1 year extension. As Dr PP says it is simper to do here in Thailand, than applyign for the O-A overseas.

Once you have the obtained your one year extension, you can apply for a multiple re-entry permit, which allows you to come and go as many times as you like during the course of the year.

The only thing your have to watch is to be here in Thailand at the end of your one year extension, in order to renew it. Otherwise you will have to start all over again.