WHO Suggests Tightened Measures to Control COVID-19 Spread in Thailand

[BangkokReady]

I wouldn't mind so much if I didn't still regularly see Thais sitting around with their friends with their masks under their chin.

 

It seems like a major part of this wave is the thinking "you can only get covid from strangers".

[MikeyIdea]

13 minutes ago, sucit said:

Extremely short sighted and even obtuse not to mention or think about current and projected deaths caused by lockdowns. 
 

what is clearly going to happen over time is Swedish deaths are going to be lower relative to other countries. In the end it is going to be close to a wash. Yet, Sweden didn’t lockdown. Make any sense? I would assume not. 

To quote your own words, "Extremely short sighted and even obtuse not to mention or think about" demographics when commenting that "Swedish deaths are going to be lower relative to other countries"

 

Makes any sense?

Edited July 25, 2021 by MikeyIdea

[smedly]

13 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Tesco in north Pattaya was shut today I wonder why?  Was there yesterday no problem.

 

 

I am sure we will hear soon, my guess is a covid outbreak among people working there just like Central Festival has been a spreading location amongst staff for several weeks

[atpeace]

3 minutes ago, sucit said:

Extremely short sighted and even obtuse not to mention or think about current and projected deaths caused by lockdowns. 
 

what is clearly going to happen over time is Swedish deaths are going to be lower relative to other countries. In the end it is going to be close to a wash. Yet, Sweden didn’t lockdown. Make any sense? I would assume not. 

You are past the point of having a conversation. Honestly, you just rambled on about nothing.  What are you trying to say?  Hard to say that 1,500 deaths per million for a sparsely populated country is a success.  

 

What you are doing is creating your own reality based on what you want it to be.  If you can't see that then a discussion is impossible.  As you stated, "what is clearly going to happen over time is Swedish deaths are going to be lower relative to other countries".  So in this future world Sweden's failure will be a success. 

 

I guess, I will concede in this "future world" you are correct.  Nice strategy and you will never be wrong.  Just create another future reality.

[smedly]

8 minutes ago, pissedoff2am said:

How many Thai's lives will be destroyed by these lockdowns

what do you mean "will be"

[smedly]

10 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Sweden did not wipe out their population and they never locked down and had no face mask regulations. Life is back to normal there now.

Australia thought that too and along came delta, don't be getting too ahead of yourself

 

Sweden has a small population - many major cities have a greater population than Sweden - it should have been very easy to control covid there and roll out vaccines - they could be over the worst if vaccines remain effective

Edited July 25, 2021 by smedly

[tingtong]

13 hours ago, Gold Star said:

I think this new law will cut our comment section in half...

See sceptics, the government do tighten the measure!!! 

Perhaps not the way the majority expecting...

 

[atpeace]

10 minutes ago, pissedoff2am said:

How many Thai's lives will be destroyed by these lockdowns? How many suicides, ruined business, lost schooling, social issues. There is a HEAVY price for this that you are dismissing.

Good point and I am not dismissing these issues ( sorry if my previous post was written poorly).  To the contrary, I think lockdowns are terrible but IMO semi lockdowns are justified.  To what extent, I'm far from all knowing but think the current lockdown is good enough until the deaths level off.  Hopefully by the end of year half the pop will have been vaccinated and things are better.

 

I haven't really seen the desperation of the poor yet but I'm sure it is happening.  I thought lockdowns would result in riots and hordes of of homeless hungry Thais last year.  Hasn't happened but still IMO small chance of it might.

 

 

[SmartyMarty]

13 hours ago, pissedoff2am said:

Yes, that is what the lockdown fanatics want, we have to hurt everyone as much as possible to show our virtue in fighting covid. Never mind that lockdowns have not been proven to lead to better outcomes. Look at what is happening in Australia right now, at this rate they will stay locked down and closed for the next 5 years.

Lockdowns are proven to work. What don’t work are too soon opening up, partial re-openings, lax border controls or covid deniers and anti vaxers spouting their <deleted> and spreading the virus. 

[sucit]

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Here again is the graph I posted on the previous page. Explain this away.

It is honestly hard to even take you seriously. You do realize you can’t compare nations with widely different populations. Right?
 

Do you want to compare total deaths in USA to Malta to make your next point? Lol

 

I will set you on the right track to straighten yourself out. Thailand has a very low number of deaths. But, what is happening now? 
 

The key is to avoid lockdown related deaths, which you completely ignore, and safely work your population through the virus.

 

But congratulations. You have quite amazingly ignored more than half of the problem: lockdown related deaths. And these are from younger people so the number of years lost can be mush higher per death. I am glad you think you have a point though. 

[metisdead]

A post discussing another member and the replies have been removed:

 

25) No public discussion is allowed with regard to other forum members, as well as to advertisements or sponsors, or methods of blocking advertisements.

 

Some other posts have been removed. 

[placeholder]

Just now, sucit said:

It is honestly hard to even take you seriously. You do realize you can’t compare nations with widely different populations. Right?
 

Do you want to compare total deaths in USA to Malta to make your next point? Lol

 

I will set you on the right track to straighten yourself out. Thailand has a very low number of deaths. But, what is happening now? 
 

The key is to avoid lockdown related deaths, which you completely ignore, and safely work your population through the virus.

 

But congratulations. You have quite amazingly ignored more than half of the problem: lockdown related deaths. And these are from younger people so the number of years lost can be mush higher per death. I am glad you think you have a point though. 

As I pointed out in my original posting of that graph, Norway, Finland, and Denmark each have about half the population of Sweden. Even adjusting for that, Sweden's performance is dismal against all three.

 

You got some numbers on lockdown related deaths that shows their numbers to be anything close to those who died from Covid?

[sucit]

15 minutes ago, SmartyMarty said:

Lockdowns are proven to work. What don’t work are too soon opening up, partial re-openings, lax border controls or covid deniers and anti vaxers spouting their <deleted> and spreading the virus. 

Lockdowns have been proven to kill people. Are you kidding? There is nothing that says lockdowns have proven to work.

 

Look into some stats in California vs Florida. It is going to be the same story everywhere in five years: covid deaths more or less the same, and then we will tally deaths from lockdowns, which will extend into the next decades by way of suicides, depression, substance abuse, domestic abuse, cancer screenings..

[sucit]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

As I pointed out in my original posting of that graph, Norway, Finland, and Denmark each have about half the population of Sweden. Even adjusting for that, Sweden's performance is dismal against all three.

 

You got some numbers on lockdown related deaths that shows their numbers to be anything close to those who died from Covid?

Please. Go back to comparing total deaths with nations with different population numbers. Your analysis is indicative of your understanding of the overall topic (hint: deaths from lockdowns themselves left out). 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

46 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Firstly, not in favor of strict lockdowns but Sweden was far from a success.  A sparsely populated county compared to Thailand, roughly 1,500 people died per 1 mil.  Population adjusted equals about 100,000 Thais.  Roughly 100,000 more Thais would need to perish to equal Sweden success.  

 

Common sense - wear masks, stay away from groups and figure out this vaccine screwup.  Definitely don't try to emulate Sweden.

Sweden's death rate per mil. from Corvid s similar or lower to most of the European countries COVID Live Update: 194,372,584 Cases and 4,167,937 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (worldometers.info) and those countries locked down. The other Scandinavian countries had a much lower death rate compared to Sweden, a main reason was that they had less part time workers at their retirement homes, who infected the old people living there. Many of the other European countries that locked down had lost over ten % of their economies, Sweden is one of the few countries in the EU block with a growing economy during this period.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, sucit said:

Please. Go back to comparing total deaths with nations with different population numbers. Your analysis is indicative of your understanding of the overall topic (hint: deaths from lockdowns themselves left out). 

What don't you understand about the fact the Norway, Denmark, and Finland each have half the population of Sweden? What don't you understand that since this is the case, if their performance was no better than Sweden's each would have about half the total number of Covid deaths that Sweden has? Is that the case?

Here's a word for you to contemplate:

Innumeracy:

 The term innumeracy is a neologism, coined by analogy with illiteracy. Innumeracy refers to a lack of ability to reason with numbers. The term was coined by cognitive scientist Douglas Hofstadter; however, it was popularized in 1989 by mathematician John Allen Paulos in his book Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeracy

[MikeyIdea]

20 minutes ago, sucit said:

It is honestly hard to even take you seriously. You do realize you can’t compare nations with widely different populations. Right?
 

Do you want to compare total deaths in USA to Malta to make your next point? Lol

 

I will set you on the right track to straighten yourself out. Thailand has a very low number of deaths. But, what is happening now? 
 

The key is to avoid lockdown related deaths, which you completely ignore, and safely work your population through the virus.

 

But congratulations. You have quite amazingly ignored more than half of the problem: lockdown related deaths. And these are from younger people so the number of years lost can be mush higher per death. I am glad you think you have a point though. 

Sweden, Norway, Finland have similar population density. They also have a similar non multi generation household culture, and culture overall. They are good apple to apple comparisons. 

 

I don't understand you bringing up comparing USA and Malta, the member you quoted certainly didn't compare different demographis so who did?

Edited July 25, 2021 by MikeyIdea

[Kevin Taylor]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Here's a graph comparing Sweden's mortality performance to its 3 Scandinavian neighbors. Each of its numbers has about half the population that Sweden has. Adjusted accordingly, Sweden's performance still doesn't exactly look brilliant.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/sweden

I wish I was living in Sweden now. I would rather have my civil rights and freedoms and take my chances with covid. Not allowed to do that here in Thailand

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Sweden's death rate per mil. from Corvid s similar or lower to most of the European countries COVID Live Update: 194,372,584 Cases and 4,167,937 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (worldometers.info) and those countries locked down. The other Scandinavian countries had a much lower death rate compared to Sweden, a main reason was that they had less part time workers at their retirement homes, who infected the old people living there. Many of the other European countries that locked down had lost over ten % of their economies, Sweden is one of the few countries in the EU block with a growing economy during this period.

Got some evidence to support your contention that SWeden had more part-time workers at their homes? 

I see no mention of that here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-nursinghome/swedish-watchdog-finds-serious-failures-in-covid-care-at-nursing-homes-idUSKBN2841FN

 

As for GDP, Sweden performed at about the same level as did the economies of Denmark and Finland 2 countries that enforced tight restrictions.  Norway's GDP suffered because a significant shares of its revenues come from petroleum.

[MikeyIdea]

14 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

Sweden's death rate per mil. from Corvid s similar or lower to most of the European countries COVID Live Update: 194,372,584 Cases and 4,167,937 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer (worldometers.info) and those countries locked down. The other Scandinavian countries had a much lower death rate compared to Sweden, a main reason was that they had less part time workers at their retirement homes, who infected the old people living there. Many of the other European countries that locked down had lost over ten % of their economies, Sweden is one of the few countries in the EU block with a growing economy during this period.

Why do you keep on comparing countries with very different demographics?

[sucit]

13 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

Sweden, Norway, Finland have similar population density. They also have a similar non multi generation household culture, and culture overall. They are good apple to apple comparisons. 

 

I don't understand you bringing up comparing USA and Malta, the member you quoted certainly didn't compare different demographis so who did?

You don’t understand? Let me clear it up for you. 
 

Sweden and Denmark have different population numbers. He was comparing total deaths lol

 

Again, that would be like comparing total deaths in a very large country, to a very small one. It’s unforgivably obtuse, and should not be taken seriously, especially when not considering deaths the lockdowns cause themselves. 

[MikeyIdea]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Got some evidence to support your contention that SWeden had more part-time workers at their homes? 

I see no mention of that here:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-nursinghome/swedish-watchdog-finds-serious-failures-in-covid-care-at-nursing-homes-idUSKBN2841FN

 

As for GDP, Sweden performed at about the same level as did the economies of Denmark and Finland 2 countries that enforced tight restrictions.  Norway's GDP suffered because a significant shares of its revenues come from petroleum.

HoSoLoSoNoSo is correct about that. Sweden does have many more part time workers working in elderly care. But, the fact that politicians knew this and still prioritized people contributing to society contributed much more to deaths.   

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, sucit said:

You don’t understand? Let me clear it up for you. 
 

Sweden and Denmark have different population numbers. He was comparing total deaths lol

 

Again, that would be like comparing total deaths in a very large country, to a very small one. It’s unforgivably obtuse, and should not be taken seriously, especially when not considering deaths the lockdowns cause themselves. 

Yes. Sweden has twice as many people as does Denmark. Therefore, if all other factors were equal then Sweden should have twice the number of deaths that Denmark did. What is it about this simple piece of arithmetic that you don't understand?

 

In fact out of the 3 Scandinavian countries I compared Sweden to, it performed best against Denmark. And it's performance was still dismal.

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, sucit said:

Lockdowns have been proven to kill people. Are you kidding? There is nothing that says lockdowns have proven to work.

 

Look into some stats in California vs Florida. It is going to be the same story everywhere in five years: covid deaths more or less the same, and then we will tally deaths from lockdowns, which will extend into the next decades by way of suicides, depression, substance abuse, domestic abuse, cancer screenings..

I guess when you don't have evidence, an appeal to the future facts is all you got? Or do you have a crystal ball? Or a time machine?

[sucit]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I guess when you don't have evidence, an appeal to the future facts is all you got? Or do you have a crystal ball? Or a time machine?

Google “lockdown effectiveness” and u will have all the evidence you SHOULD need. 
 

Here is a quote from the first scientific article when I do the above: “Lockdown does not work as a continuous containment policy in the event of a protracted pandemic.”

 

Just as I have been saying, they don’t work long term. Numbers will be more or less a wash in the end. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by sucit

[MikeyIdea]

16 minutes ago, sucit said:

You don’t understand? Let me clear it up for you. 
 

Sweden and Denmark have different population numbers. He was comparing total deaths lol

 

Again, that would be like comparing total deaths in a very large country, to a very small one. It’s unforgivably obtuse, and should not be taken seriously, especially when not considering deaths the lockdowns cause themselves. 

And Denmark locked down. Hotels closed. I had a holiday in Copenhagen planned for May, the hotel cancelled my booking citing covid restrictions, I went to Copenhagen (from Malmoe) in July, everyone on the train was stopped and had to show proof that they had valid reason to be let in. The Swedes (except me) didn't use masks in Sweden, all put on their masks before they entered Denmark. 

 

Yes, Denmark has a higher population density, yet much lower mortality. Because they took covid much more seriously. Norway and Finland's numbers speaks for themselves.

Edited July 25, 2021 by MikeyIdea

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, sucit said:

Google “lockdown effectiveness” and u will have all the evidence you SHOULD need. 

When someone makes a claim, it's incumbent upon them to provide the evidence. Not ask others to do their work for them. 

I did do a brief search though and came up with this:

DeSantis Advances Questionable Link Between Lockdowns and Despair

https://khn.org/news/article/desantis-advances-questionable-link-between-lockdowns-and-despair/

[sucit]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When someone makes a claim, it's incumbent upon them to provide the evidence. Not ask others to do their work for them. 

I did do a brief search though and came up with this:

DeSantis Advances Questionable Link Between Lockdowns and Despair

https://khn.org/news/article/desantis-advances-questionable-link-between-lockdowns-and-despair/

That is your opinion. 
 

it is common knowledge lockdowns don’t work. So just like if you think the earth is flat, it is far from my job to prove otherwise. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by sucit

[tomazbodner]

12 hours ago, impulse said:

That's easy to say when you've already made your nugget (or not) and you're living on a pension or investment income or a government salary.  Meanwhile, millions of Thai people (many barely above the poverty level in good times) aren't allowed to make a living- to keep you on the safe side.  For many, their entire economic future has been derailed in an experiment.  It'll take years to determine whether locking down was successful in any but the short term.  And more years to make up for the income lost during this experiment.

 

On whether this will be looked back as successful or not... here's why they did it:

 

Now the whole point was to try to keep the number of infected below the healthcare system capacity. Where of course we would have hoped that, like in China, that would not be a flat line but increasing over time. On the flip side - the "without protective measures" would be that 1-2 years that a normal pandemic would have lasted until it ran out of people to infect as most would have already been immune or dead.

 

But here's the catch. By prolonging time, and viruses mutating constantly, you get to the point where the same people get reinfected by mutations they are not immune to, so it no longer is one wave like in the image above, but more like a sinus curve, with one wave after another. Add in the mix the vaccines against most spread out strains, and we're creating opportunities for variants that otherwise might not make it to thrive. By immunising against one strain, that strain can no longer prosper, but a mutation that would have otherwise stood no chance of thriving is given opportunity, as it's different enough to bypass immunity.

 

Hence overall, I think this will be looked back as a very short term plan without taking into consideration how implementing it would make matters worse in the long run, but we should be prepared, with the strategy taken, that this thingy is not going away for many years. And by the time the direction changes, it might either mutate to something more akin to common cold, or it could turn into something more like MERS, with 1 in 3 infected succumbing to it. We can only hope it would be the first option, as collectively as a human race we'll never step together and do what's needed to get rid of it.

[MikeyIdea]

4 minutes ago, sucit said:

Point blank yes or no, do you think it is reasonable to compare total deaths in countries with different 

 

11 minutes ago, sucit said:

it is common knowledge lockdowns don’t work. So just like if you think the earth is flat, it is far from my job to prove otherwise. 

Different what? Different population? I have already explained that in a previous post. Demographics is more than just population density. Demographics takes people into consideration, how people live and work, culture and the extension of that, multi generation households. As you argue that Denmark is not a valid comparison with its higher population density, you actually prove that closures work as deaths per capita was much lower despite higher population density.

 

Or are you talking about population disregaring population density?