Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

"I'll post less if others post less misinformation."
It was not a comment purely on frequency; it was about the proportion of longer, content-rich posts. I note that I thanked you for your recent post on the Omicron numbers.

"Like the guy who gets his info from RTNews"
He explained to you in his exchange with regards to RT. If I associated every single unhinged NYT op-ed and the worst excesses of CNN commentary with your total persona, you wouldn't look too flattering either, and these two enjoy much more credibility than RT.

"I'm hard core against anti vaxxers and covid deniers."
You can be hardcore against and still perhaps collect your one-line put downs together into less posts including those "haha another idiot's dead" type posts.
You can be hardcore against and still understand the not-so-subtle difference between 'people who disagree with me' and 'anti-vaxxers'.
You can be hardcore against and take a bit more time reading those horrible people's posts
You can be hardcore against and take the time to reply to the specific content of the posts vs. what you think they are saying

"They are the ones responsible for this spread of misinformation"
It has been pointed out to you that through injudicious reasoning, you have also been responsible for misinformation and making misleading statements.
 

I avoid op-ed's and opinion pieces at all costs. Unless they are from industry experts. I've rarely posted stuff like that. Stunning you say RT has more credibility. It doesn't unless you are into conspiracy theories and propaganda. LOL

 

Show one post I've done that is misinformation. I'll wait.

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

""Like the guy who gets his info from RTNews"
He explained to you in his exchange with regards to RT. If I associated every single unhinged NYT op-ed and the worst excesses of CNN commentary with your total persona, you wouldn't look too flattering either, and these two enjoy much more credibility than RT.

The thing is, RT is a propaganda mouthpiece for the Russian govt. So it isn't just a matter of a few ouylier opinion pieces from RT, is it? 

[Atlantis]

@Jeffr2
Your final point:

"They are the ones responsible for this spread of misinformation and are helping this pandemic to extend.  That's well documented."

I'm sorry to have to make this personal, because it's almost impossible not to. It's really ironic for you, of all people, to post this - and often.

 

You have a right to be a "hardcore traveler" or however it you described yourself recently. But to claim your freedom to this activity while meanwhile disparaging unvaccinated people for being "10x" more likely to spread the virus - and by extension to cause more death - shows a certain level of egocentricity and entitlement.

 

In one corner, you have a random villager in northern Isaan sitting in his own home minding his own business.
In another corner, you have a frequent hardcore anti-anti-vax poster who engages in international leisure travel during a pandemic.

You would readily blame that unvaccinated farmer for prolonging the pandemic by being "10x more likely to spread the virus" but excuse yourself for travelling 1000x more than him.

Tone down the zealotry + a bit more self-awareness....please?

 

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Atlantis
quotation marks for clarity

[Atlantis]

8 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Stunning you say RT has more credibility.

22 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

and these two enjoy much more credibility than RT.

21 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

You can be hardcore against and take a bit more time reading those horrible people's posts
You can be hardcore against and take the time to reply to the specific content of the posts vs. what you think they are saying

Et voila. There we have it. Thank you for demonstrating your inability / unwillingness to read, and how that contributes to low-quality posting throughout the forum.

[placnx]

On 12/3/2021 at 6:26 AM, ozimoron said:

And yet those who don't vaccinate either don't care if others die or are seriously misinformed. It has been said here many times by anti-vaxers that they themselves are healthy and not in danger so why take the vaccine. But they don't need to say it, medical experts are all in agreement that the vaccines greatly reduce the spread. I have no respect for people who won't vaccinate without good cause, in fact I revile them. It is for good reason that most vaccines are already mandatory for children.

It's too bad that WHO and many others have put so much emphasis on vaccines preventing hospitalization or death. That's of course important, but stopping the spread though vaccination (and other measures) is equally important, and they should be saying so in the same breath.

 

It's anti-social not to vaccinate just because you're healthy.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, placnx said:

It's too bad that WHO and many others have put so much emphasis on vaccines preventing hospitalization or death. That's of course important, but stopping the spread though vaccination (and other measures) is equally important, and they should be saying so in the same breath.

They have been, loud and clear. The many others would have to be the medical profession I guess since you didn't make it clear.

1 minute ago, placnx said:

 

It's anti-social not to vaccinate just because you're healthy.

I don't understand this sentence. Please rephrase it and maybe make it a little longer..

[Jeffr2]

44 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

@Jeffr2
Your final point:

"They are the ones responsible for this spread of misinformation and are helping this pandemic to extend.  That's well documented."

I'm sorry to have to make this personal, because it's almost impossible not to. It's really ironic for you, of all people, to post this - and often.

 

You have a right to be a "hardcore traveler" or however it you described yourself recently. But to claim your freedom to this activity while meanwhile disparaging unvaccinated people for being "10x" more likely to spread the virus - and by extension to cause more death - shows a certain level of egocentricity and entitlement.

 

In one corner, you have a random villager in northern Isaan sitting in his own home minding his own business.
In another corner, you have a frequent hardcore anti-anti-vax poster who engages in international leisure travel during a pandemic.

You would readily blame that unvaccinated farmer for prolonging the pandemic by being "10x more likely to spread the virus" but excuse yourself for travelling 1000x more than him.

Tone down the zealotry + a bit more self-awareness....please?
 

Umm...you are aware it's extremely difficult to travel right now.  Pretty much attributable to those who are avoiding the jabs.  You're aware of this, but ignore it?  I don't get it.  Traveling or not, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

 

You really believe a random villager in Issan is sitting in his own home?  I kinda doubt it.

 

I'm just posting what I read.  I'm sure this person knows more about what's going on than any of us here.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/von-der-leyen-pandemic-vaccine-unvaccinated-coronavirus-fourth-wave/

Von der Leyen sees ‘pandemic of the unvaccinated’

European Commission president says vaccines sharply reduced deaths and hospitalizations.

[codemonkey]

53 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Traveling or not, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

If this is a pandemic of unvaxxed people, why do the people with two experimental mRNA injections need a 3rd for a disease with a <2% CFR with the average age of covid deaths about the same as the average lifespan in US and other countries?

 

There are a lot of people being called "antivaxxers" who aren't against ALL vaccines, but are against *THIS* (failed) experimental mRNA drug being called a "vaccine" – even though it doesn't effectively stop infections or transmission.

 

[Jeffr2]

6 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

If this is a pandemic of unvaxxed people, why do the people with two experimental mRNA injections need a 3rd for a disease with a <2% CFR with the average age of covid deaths about the same as the average lifespan in US and other countries?

 

There are a lot of people being called "antivaxxers" who aren't against ALL vaccines, but are against *THIS* (failed) experimental mRNA drug being called a "vaccine" – even though it doesn't effectively stop infections or transmission.

 

Experimental is misinformation. Only spoken by anti vaxxers.

[codemonkey]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

it's extremely difficult to travel right now. 

Whats bizarre is LOL.,,, Biden issued travel bans on countries with zero reported omicron cases, due to a new variant that has killed a total of zero people. Last count was 5 total omicron cases in US, at least 3 cases are in fully vaccinated.

[earthscar]

1 hour ago, codemonkey said:

Whats bizarre is LOL.,,, Biden issued travel bans on countries with zero reported omicron cases, due to a new variant that has killed a total of zero people. Last count was 5 total omicron cases in US, at least 3 cases are in fully vaccinated.

only bizarre if you don't put any thought into reasons for why or listen to the CDC members who game forward to give the reasons. The reaction was quick and gave them a bit of leeway to see what actions need to be taken for long term protection. 

 

I agree with some experts opinion it punished a country that was being transpertant with the world governments.Its benifit will be minor but so long as its adjusted as information comes in i can accept it.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, codemonkey said:

If this is a pandemic of unvaxxed people, why do the people with two experimental mRNA injections need a 3rd for a disease with a <2% CFR with the average age of covid deaths about the same as the average lifespan in US and other countries?

 

There are a lot of people being called "antivaxxers" who aren't against ALL vaccines, but are against *THIS* (failed) experimental mRNA drug being called a "vaccine" – even though it doesn't effectively stop infections or transmission.

 

The mRNA vaccines are not experimental.

 

Your whole post is blatant misinformation.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, codemonkey said:

The fact is, Pfizer’s clinical trials don’t end until May 2023. FDA-approval usually requires letting clinical trials run their course but granting an emergency use authorization (EUA) – the sort of thing that allows doctors to try experimental drugs on a patient because he is dying anyway — is a different game altogether. And Pfizer’s EUA extends to 12-year-olds whose odds of dying from Covid are significantly less than getting hit by lightning.

Again it’s not an experimental vaccine.

 

There’s a post on misinformation at the top of this sub forum, might want to read it.

[codemonkey]

4 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

pandemic of the unvaccinated

Ok, but the first know cases of omicron in the USA were in fully vaccinated people who returned from trips to SA. I'm willing to bet the ranch these two vaccinated folks spread some of that omicron despite being vaccinated. Unless otherwise shown, the omicron variant was unleashed in America by vaccinated.

 

The first known U.S. Covid-19 case linked to Omicron was reported Wednesday in a San Francisco resident who had recently been in South Africa. The CDC said the person was vaccinated and the symptoms were mild and improving.

A second California case was reported Thursday, in a Los Angeles County resident who had also recently traveled to South Africa. The individual, who was fully vaccinated, was self-isolating and the symptoms were improving, the county Department of Public Health said.

Vaccinated super-spreader event occurred recently in  Norway where 120 fully vaccinated company employees attended a restaurant Christmas party, and 13 ended up with omicron and more than 50% tested positive for covid infection....all vaccinated!

So quit, quit the "it's a pandemic of unvaccinated" nonsense, it's a laughable and untenable stance for those who attempt to obscure the facts and science.

Edited December 4, 2021 by codemonkey

[codemonkey]

3 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

Only spoken by anti vaxxers.

did you get that info from one of your "backed up with links to credible sites to try and help others with information" sites?

[codemonkey]

It was mentioned recently that the WWII Axis countries -- Italy, Austria, Germany -- are the ones now locking down the unvaccinated and moving towards compulsory vaccinations.

Edited December 4, 2021 by codemonkey

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, codemonkey said:

If this is a pandemic of unvaxxed people, why do the people with two experimental mRNA injections need a 3rd for a disease with a <2% CFR with the average age of covid deaths about the same as the average lifespan in US and other countries?

 

There are a lot of people being called "antivaxxers" who aren't against ALL vaccines, but are against *THIS* (failed) experimental mRNA drug being called a "vaccine" – even though it doesn't effectively stop infections or transmission.

 

Would you call a 1:5000 chance effective? I would.

[Jeffr2]

25 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

did you get that info from one of your "backed up with links to credible sites to try and help others with information" sites?

You are proven to be posting misinformation

[Scott]

Continuing to refer to fully approved vaccines as experimental will earn a suspension.  

[codemonkey]

47 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

You are proven to be posting misinformation

Dutch authorities say "around 90%" of those that tested positive for COVID-19 were vaccinated. 100% who tested + for Omicron had taken the shots.

"The infection rate among the passengers from South Africa sparked calls from Dutch health authorities for testing to replace vaccination status for flying."

Makes sense given how covid is spreading so easily and rapidly amongst vaccinated.

Edited December 4, 2021 by codemonkey

[ozimoron]

This is why we are seeing such unrelenting anti-vaccine evangelism on the internet.

 

"The pandemic is a factor in Biden’s falling approval ratings and the worries Democrats have over next year’s midterm elections. Pandemic fatigue is a huge political problem for the party, which feels as if it faces a Catch-22 since the pandemic is less likely [to] end the more people avoid vaccinations or even booster shots."

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/584313-democrats-livid-over-gops-covid-19-attacks-on-biden

 

[codemonkey]

2 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

You are proven to be posting misinformation

Biden's vaccine mandates are not working out in America.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/30/politics/court-blocks-federal-contractor-vaccine-mandate-kentucky-ohio-tennessee/index.html

Edited December 4, 2021 by codemonkey

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll post removed.  

 

[placeholder]

28 minutes ago, codemonkey said:

Biden's vaccine mandates are not working out in America.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/30/politics/court-blocks-federal-contractor-vaccine-mandate-kentucky-ohio-tennessee/index.html

Are these judges epidemiologists or virologists? They're not basing their decisions on science. They are basing it on how they construe the law. How is this relevant?  What do epidemiologists say about the effects of these White house policies? Your political obsession has absolutely nothing to do with the public health experts take on White House policies. In this context, it's utterly ludicrous.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, codemonkey said:

That's your arena to enjoy.

You'll thank me some day, soon.

As usual, an irrelevant and evasive response. This particular one, reminds of something that I used as a child "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you call me bounces back and sticks to you." It's not sad when children employ this tactic, it's even kind of funny,  but when someone who is at least chronologically an adult adopts this ploy, it says lots about them and nothing of it commendatory.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, codemonkey said:

Biden's vaccine mandates are not working out in America.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/30/politics/court-blocks-federal-contractor-vaccine-mandate-kentucky-ohio-tennessee/index.html

There are thousands of vaccine mandates in the US.  You're cherry picking just this one.  It's a big deal, and being blocked by conservatives who care more about getting reelected than their constituents health.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

Are these judges epidemiologists or virologists? They're not basing their decisions on science. They are basing it on how they construe the law. How is this relevant?  What do epidemiologists say about the effects of these White house policies? Your political obsession has absolutely nothing to do with the public health experts take on White House policies. In this context, it's utterly ludicrous.

 

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211110/covid-vaccine-mandates-working

 

COVID-19 Vaccine Mandates Are Working, Public Health Experts Say

[ignis]

19 hours ago, Virt said:

Ask your parents how many vaccinations you received as a child.

for me that is easy 2. both time had to spend days in ICU, later aged 8, forced a vaccine at school, Ambulance had to be called. as this was the early 50s thought maybe advancements had been made on Vaccines. so have tried 3 more in my life, last one being last year, still the same on all 3 - ICU and days in Hospital

Just my luck ? I am one of the  1 in 100,000 people that cannot have vaccines and missed out on all the normal vaccines

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, ignis said:

for me that is easy 2. both time had to spend days in ICU, later aged 8, forced a vaccine at school, Ambulance had to be called. as this was the early 50s thought maybe advancements had been made on Vaccines. so have tried 3 more in my life, last one being last year, still the same on all 3 - ICU and days in Hospital

Just my luck ? I am one of the  1 in 100,000 people that cannot have vaccines and missed out on all the normal vaccines

That is unfortunate and reinforces the need for those who can have vaccines to do so because doing so protects people like yourself.

[earthscar]

44 minutes ago, ignis said:

for me that is easy 2. both time had to spend days in ICU, later aged 8, forced a vaccine at school, Ambulance had to be called. as this was the early 50s thought maybe advancements had been made on Vaccines. so have tried 3 more in my life, last one being last year, still the same on all 3 - ICU and days in Hospital

Just my luck ? I am one of the  1 in 100,000 people that cannot have vaccines and missed out on all the normal vaccines

your 1 out of 100,000 is off by a few ",". Even w/ your allergy you should look into getting the shot. the following copy/paste is from healthline who i double checked is vetted as a reliable source for health insights and information. This would of course be a discussion between your doctor and you. At a glance w/o knowing the specifics,let alone understanding, of your case it looks like you still are a viable candidate for protection from covid. 

 

Question  Can patients at high risk for anaphylactic reactions receive the Pfizer-BioNTech (BNT162b2) COVID-19 vaccine?

Findings  In this cohort study of 8102 individuals with an allergy history, an algorithm was used to define 429 (5%) as “highly allergic”; this group was referred to receive immunization under medical supervision. A total of 98% of the highly allergic individuals had no allergic reaction, 6 (1%) had mild allergic responses, and 3 (0.7%) had anaphylactic reactions.

Meaning  This study’s findings suggest that a simple algorithm enables immunization of most patients with a history of allergy, while only patients defined as highly allergic should receive vaccination under medical supervision.

Abstract

Importance  Allergic reactions among some individuals who received the Pfizer-BioNTech (BNT162b2) COVID-19 vaccine discourage patients with allergic conditions from receiving this vaccine and physicians from recommending the vaccine.

Objective  To describe the assessment and immunization of highly allergic individuals with the BNT162b2 vaccine.

Design, Setting, and Participants  In a prospective cohort study from December 27, 2020, to February 22, 2021, 8102 patients with allergies who applied to the COVID 19 vaccine referral center at the Sheba Medical Center underwent risk assessment using an algorithm that included a detailed questionnaire. High-risk patients (n = 429) were considered “highly allergic” and were immunized under medical supervision.

Exposures  Pfizer-BioNTech (BNT162b2) COVID-19 vaccine.

Main Outcomes and Measures  Allergic and anaphylactic reactions after the first and second doses of BNT162b2 vaccine among highly allergic patients.

Results  Of the 429 individuals who applied to the COVID-19 referral center and were defined as highly allergic, 304 (70.9%) were women and the mean (SD) age was 52 (16) years. This highly allergic group was referred to receive immunization under medical supervision. After the first dose of the BNT162b2 vaccine, 420 patients (97.9%) had no immediate allergic event, 6 (1.4%) developed minor allergic responses, and 3 (0.7%) had anaphylactic reactions. During the study period, 218 highly allergic patients (50.8%) received the second BNT162b2 vaccine dose, of which 214 (98.2%) had no allergic reactions and 4 patients (1.8%) had minor allergic reactions. Other immediate and late reactions were comparable with those seen in the general population, except for delayed itch and skin eruption, which were more common among allergic patients.

Conclusions and Relevance  The rate of allergic reactions to BNT162b2 vaccine, is higher among patients with allergies, particularly among a subgroup with a history of high-risk allergies. This study suggests that most patients with a history of allergic diseases and, particularly, highly allergic patients can be safely immunized by using an algorithm that can be implemented in different medical facilities and includes a referral center, a risk assessment questionnaire, and a setting for immunization under medical supervision of highly allergic patients. Further studies are required to define more specific risk factors for allergic reactions to the BNT162b2 vaccine.