Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

[RJRS1301]

33 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

I will never take the MRNA 'v'

btw...I had Covid already...no big deal.

If they 'force' us one way or another I might consider Sinopharm (non-MRNA)

..but most probably I will go and live in a free-er country.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tell those who are living with "long Covid" and renal impairment, myocarditis that is is no big deal.

Many of those living with long Covid also have ongoing respeiratory issues, and we previously healthy individuals

Not sure why you are concenred about mRNA vaccines the science of this has been around 1990

[thaibeachlovers]

17 hours ago, BE88 said:

After 75 pages of comments where most insult the other party out of ignorance, I think reality must be looked at, I have come to the conclusion that we are all victims of manipulation, both on one side and on the other.

 

So let's get back to our inner tranquility and watch this collective madness pass by hoping to see the end soon.

Well said. IMO too many making personal attacks on other posters instead of contributing in a meaningful way to the discussion.

 

I agree with your second sentence.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, VinnieK said:

I will never take the MRNA 'v'

btw...I had Covid already...no big deal.

If they 'force' us one way or another I might consider Sinopharm (non-MRNA)

..but most probably I will go and live in a free-er country.

 

If you've had Covid, a vaccine will enhance that.  Sinopharm is probably not the best choice but most likely more than adequate for someone who has already had Covid.  

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, blackprince said:

1. The overloading of national health services with covid cases that are not fatal. Over the last year we have already seen the largest national health service in the world - the UK's NHS - on the verge of overload 2 times and a 3rd is imminent.  In the last 2 months alone "UK hospitals have cancelled at least 13,000 operations over the last two months as they struggle to cope with record demand for NHS care and people sick with Covid-19."

Having worked in the NHS for many years and experienced the waste and managerial incompetence first hand, that does not surprise me in the least.

[blackprince]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Having worked in the NHS for many years and experienced the waste and managerial incompetence first hand, that does not surprise me in the least.

I also worked in the NHS before I went to university, as a mental nursing assistant. What great people those nurses and matrons were.

 

Sadly Thatcher closed that branch of the NHS down and turned everybody out into the street under the mantra "care in the community". The immediate consequence of the scheme was beggars on the streets of London. A longer term consequence was the decay of those grand old Victorian buildings that housed the mental hospitals; then the petty criminals moved in to strip lead from the roofs and any other materials they could sell.

 

Care in the community meant dumping the mentally unwell into the community and numerous murders occurred as a result. Perhaps you rememeber the headline cases. Still, the private landlords benefitted from the social security payouts.

 

Thatcher of course initiated the privatisation of the health service by stealth. Still in full swing last year as we see Tory cronies pocketing a large chunk of the billions of taxpayers money spent on private untendered contracts for covid PPE and Testing. As ever, privatisation meant socialising the risk and privatising the benefits. Inquiries are pending.

 

Thatcher always wanted a "return to Victorian values", and boy has she succeeded - poverty now at levels not seen since the Victorian age. Child poverty at record levels, better send them back up the chimneys I guess, or put them in the poor house.

Edited December 7, 2021 by blackprince

[placeholder]

14 hours ago, blackprince said:

The issue is not merely the mortality rate, which is low for most age groups under 60 years, say. There are 2 other issues:

 

1. The overloading of national health services with covid cases that are not fatal. Over the last year we have already seen the largest national health service in the world - the UK's NHS - on the verge of overload 2 times and a 3rd is imminent.  In the last 2 months alone "UK hospitals have cancelled at least 13,000 operations over the last two months as they struggle to cope with record demand for NHS care and people sick with Covid-19."

 

2. Long covid, which can be debilitating, has been estimated to affect 30-50% of cases discharged from hospital. These people require ongoing outpatient care. I've linked the articles many times, so I hope you'll forgive me if I don't do it again.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/07/doctors-report-13000-cancelled-operations-in-uk-over-two-months

I read that excellent article you linked to but nowhere in it could I find reference to people being admitted who shouldn't be. Rather,  they were not being discharged in a timely manner.

But the fact is that so long as covid patients are tying up ICU beds, it may not be possible to perform even routine operations that are normally not life-threatening. There is always the potential for the aftermath of even a routine operation to take a turn for the worse in which case an ICU unit is necessary.

 

Doctors and nurses vent anger as unvaccinated Covid cases delay vital operations

Doctors and nurses have told of their anger and frustration at not being able to treat seriously ill patients as new figures show that more than 90 per cent of Covid sufferers requiring the most specialist care are unvaccinated.

While the success of the vaccination rollout has reduced the overall impact of Covid-19 on hospitals, intensive care clinicians from across England have spoken out over the continuing pressure they are under.

Between 20 per cent and 30 per cent of critical care beds in England are occupied by Covid patients and three quarters of those have not been vaccinated, according to the latest data up to July this year.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doctors-and-nurses-vent-anger-as-unvaccinated-covid-cases-delay-vital-operations-z3zchvv9l

 

At least, in the UK, there is the possibility that the many benighted supporters of the Tories, can reverse course and vote for a Labour majority which is far more likely to beef up public health services. In the US, as things stand now, most of the hospital system is firmly in the hands of the private sector, which has slashed the number of hospital beds and left not nearly enough slack in the system.

 

[DaLa]

Oh, the old underfunded NHS because of the nasty government argument, which incidentally has nothing to do with the original post.

Anyway, here goes:

 

‘During the period of austerity that followed the 2008 economic crash, the Department of Health and Social Care budget continued to grow but at a slower pace than in previous years. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established.’

 

Ref. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Then if you wish you can also read from the same source the amount of extra funding that has been added due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

Of course lets not ignore this either:

 

‘In 2016–2017, the budget was £122.5 billion. In 1955/56 health spending was 11.2% of the public services budget. In 2015/16 it was 29.7%. This equates to an average rise in spending over the full 60-year period of about 4% a year once inflation has been taken into account.’

So, how much is enough, because all I ever here is, ‘not enough’, ‘cuts’, and ‘valuable services’ the latter of which is totally incorrect because of the UK NHS being a free at point of service it has little value to a lot of people.

 

I could explain more having married into a family of Doctors and Health service providers as well as working amongst Social Service providers myself for a number of years.

But political views are not what this op is about.

[Scott]

I think it is time to get back to the topic. 

[earthscar]

11 minutes ago, DaLa said:

Oh, the old underfunded NHS because of the nasty government argument, which incidentally has nothing to do with the original post.

Anyway, here goes:

 

‘During the period of austerity that followed the 2008 economic crash, the Department of Health and Social Care budget continued to grow but at a slower pace than in previous years. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises since the NHS was established.’

 

Ref. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Then if you wish you can also read from the same source the amount of extra funding that has been added due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

 

Of course lets not ignore this either:

 

‘In 2016–2017, the budget was £122.5 billion. In 1955/56 health spending was 11.2% of the public services budget. In 2015/16 it was 29.7%. This equates to an average rise in spending over the full 60-year period of about 4% a year once inflation has been taken into account.’

So, how much is enough, because all I ever here is, ‘not enough’, ‘cuts’, and ‘valuable services’ the latter of which is totally incorrect because of the UK NHS being a free at point of service it has little value to a lot of people.

 

I could explain more having married into a family of Doctors and Health service providers as well as working amongst Social Service providers myself for a number of years.

But political views are not what this op is about.

for the USA its almost entirely a political thing. Is it the same in the UK? i haven't paid much attention to the reasoning/politics out of the EU recently or UK

 

Of Americans surveyed from Sept. 13-22, 72% of adults 18 and older had been vaccinated, including 71% of white Americans, 70% of Black Americans, and 73% of Hispanics. Contrast these converging figures with disparities based on politics: 90% of Democrats had been vaccinated, compared with 68% of Independents and just 58% of Republicans.

 

A Gallup survey released on Sept. 29 confirmed the KFF findings. As of mid-September, 75% of adult Americans have been vaccinated, including 73% of non-Hispanic white adults and 78% of non-whites. Along party lines, however, the breakdown was 92% of Democrats, 68% of Independents, and 56% of Republicans.

 

There is no reason to believe that these gaps in vaccination rates will disappear anytime soon. According to Gallup, 40% of Republicans “don’t plan” to get vaccinated, versus 26% of Independents and just 3% of Democrats. In response to a more sharply worded KFF question, 23% of Republicans report that they will “definitely not” get vaccinated, compared to 11% of Independents and just 4% of Democrats

 

Thanks to Trump and him making it define where you stood on politics the numbers coming out of the US show republicans looking to lose upcoming key elections.Enough of the constituents are dieing to sway ballot counts. republicans getting ready to post on /lepordsatemyface ?

[placnx]

15 hours ago, placeholder said:

Actually 5.1 million dead is only the official count. Epidemiologist have been keeping track of excess mortality and their calculations show that the real death toll more than twice as high.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/global?view=cumulative-deaths&tab=trend

If you follow the link and plug Thailand into their calculator their calculations come up with the actual death toll being about 59,000 vs. the roughly 21,000 that Thailand claims to be the case.

 

Worldwide the situation is worse than Thailand, and estimates are 3 times or more.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, earthscar said:

for the USA its almost entirely a political thing. Is it the same in the UK? i haven't paid much attention to the reasoning/politics out of the EU recently or UK

 

Of Americans surveyed from Sept. 13-22, 72% of adults 18 and older had been vaccinated, including 71% of white Americans, 70% of Black Americans, and 73% of Hispanics. Contrast these converging figures with disparities based on politics: 90% of Democrats had been vaccinated, compared with 68% of Independents and just 58% of Republicans.

 

A Gallup survey released on Sept. 29 confirmed the KFF findings. As of mid-September, 75% of adult Americans have been vaccinated, including 73% of non-Hispanic white adults and 78% of non-whites. Along party lines, however, the breakdown was 92% of Democrats, 68% of Independents, and 56% of Republicans.

 

There is no reason to believe that these gaps in vaccination rates will disappear anytime soon. According to Gallup, 40% of Republicans “don’t plan” to get vaccinated, versus 26% of Independents and just 3% of Democrats. In response to a more sharply worded KFF question, 23% of Republicans report that they will “definitely not” get vaccinated, compared to 11% of Independents and just 4% of Democrats

 

Thanks to Trump and him making it define where you stood on politics the numbers coming out of the US show republicans looking to lose upcoming key elections.Enough of the constituents are dieing to sway ballot counts. republicans getting ready to post on /lepordsatemyface ?

Still beating the old Trump bad, Trump bad, Trump bad drum I see.

[earthscar]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still beating the old Trump bad, Trump bad, Trump bad drum I see.

Your only not aware of it if you don't look at his tweets, even if you wanted to claim that mass media is biased against him he is at least honest enough to put his crimes in bold tweets. Read up on what he did w/ the 3 casinos he ran into the ground, the University he created that fleeced ppl, the recent revelations that during that first debate w/ Biden he not only had covid but new it and then made fun of biden for putting up a plastic barrier. the list goes on and on. all public info you can verifiy.

 

That he new before january that covid was a major problem(he is on tape) and then going right out and telling the general public it was less concerening then a common cold. 

 

I mean i get how you can twist vaccine benefits, its non scientific and req you to not trust a expert or understand the science of it..but to claim that there is nothing pointing to trump being a total garbage person.. that's beyond willful ignorance. You can't even claim its because you don't live in the USA, Trumps actions have ramifications that effect even your life out here in Thailand. USAs trade wars directly effect your day to day life. That's like claiming what happens in China isn't important to you. 

 

a majority of the military brace has come out against trump, we had one of our top generals go behind his back to make sure that countries didn't think we where starting a war w/ them...

 

i mean..holy..s dude..

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, earthscar said:

Your only not aware of it if you don't look at his tweets, even if you wanted to claim that mass media is biased against him he is at least honest enough to put his crimes in bold tweets. Read up on what he did w/ the 3 casinos he ran into the ground, the University he created that fleeced ppl, the recent revelations that during that first debate w/ Biden he not only had covid but new it and then made fun of biden for putting up a plastic barrier. the list goes on and on. all public info you can verifiy.

 

That he new before january that covid was a major problem(he is on tape) and then going right out and telling the general public it was less concerening then a common cold. 

 

I mean i get how you can twist vaccine benefits, its non scientific and req you to not trust a expert or understand the science of it..but to claim that there is nothing pointing to trump being a total garbage person.. that's beyond willful ignorance. You can't even claim its because you don't live in the USA, Trumps actions have ramifications that effect even your life out here in Thailand. USAs trade wars directly effect your day to day life. That's like claiming what happens in China isn't important to you. 

 

a majority of the military brace has come out against trump, we had one of our top generals go behind his back to make sure that countries didn't think we where starting a war w/ them...

 

i mean..holy..s dude..

Dude is so outdated, can't take you seriously.

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Dude is so outdated, can't take you seriously.

 It his facts are bang up to date.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Dude is so outdated, can't take you seriously.

Trying hard to develop a case of Trump amnesia. ????

[Rimmer]

Misleading also bickering posts about the US and Trump and Biden and other assorted off topic have been removed, topic is about Thailand, the title of the topic is:

 

Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

 

 

[earthscar]

1 minute ago, Rimmer said:

Misleading also bickering posts about Trump and Biden and other assorted off topic have been removed, topic is about Thailand, the title of the topic is:

 

Who will never vaccinate except if forced to for visa reasons ? and do you think that they will force us ?

 

 

? this whole thread is bickering depending on how you look at it, the discussion has gone across the whole breath of what covid means to thailand. From forcing vaccinations(the posts just deleteded directly discussed if the mandates where in place in the us and the likelyhood they would stay in place) to what that might mean in the larger scope.

 

The actions taken by the bigger players will most likely effect what Thailand consider as options. 

 

While I'm not against locking the thread as at this point i think most areas of discussion that are only about thailand have been discussed and reiterated many times its a shame to lose tributary discussion that is tangentially connected to what will possibly happen in thailand. 

 

Just tossing that out there incase the thread is not locked and continues to offer lively debate about covid19, thailand and possible outcomes. I think a lot of information most of us didn't know has come to light via these spirited debates.

[Rimmer]

There are many covid topic where these matters can be discussed at length, as  this one has gone so far away from the original important question on a lot of ex pat minds in Thailand the topic can now be:

//CLOSED//