Investing for Retirement Income in Thailand 10/15M Baht ?

[pattayapip]

Sadly never got around to opening a Foreign Currency Account and been here a few years working for an International Company in Asia, salary paid directly into UOB Thailand bank Account
(Used to be sent to UK but Barclays ripped off so much in conversion that i changed it to my UOB account and stopped losing maybe $500+ per Month in rate exchages)
Been very wary of all financial people after losing 40% of my QROP Pension transfer invested in a Fund that went broke !! 
(LM Investment Management Managed Performance Fund Global Bond Portfolio )
Anyway, Long story short, have ended up with just cash deposited in savings account, paying very little interest, have been working on a plan using just drawdown as the criteria . . . 
Am sure people here have multiple methods for creating a bit more interest than just a fraction of a % ?
Money seems to be trapped here as has been drip fed from Salary payments, and never in one go with the TT3 or whatever it is that you can then use to transfer back out, although i do have 1 TT3 for around 6M that was used to buy a Condo
I obviously am not interested in anything high risk (its enough it is here already) and considering options for part of the savings (Maybe 10/15M Baht) that is safe (ish-er) that would give me a little better return ?
Sure a few will think it is crazy to post something like this here, but also possible from reading replies and advice i may be able to pick something suitable that will help.
I really do welcome sensible replies please and am asking for help/thoughts that might help me with this, it is a genuine situation seeking genuine helpful replies
Thankyou

 

[tonray]

44 minutes ago, pattayapip said:

I obviously am not interested in anything high risk (its enough it is here already) and considering options for part of the savings (Maybe 10/15M Baht) that is safe (ish-er) that would give me a little better return ?

To get a better return you will need to assume some risk. Over the long term the ups and downs will even out. Just follow this rule of thumb: if available interest rates are 1.17 % on a  ten year US Treasury note (considered the gold standard for riskless asset), then getting 5 or even 10 times that is going to involve risk, in many cases significant. 

[RAZZELL]

You're searching for the holy grail - a decent return with low risk.

 

You have a very nice lump sum. I would:

 

Get some money out of Thailand back to UK (before the baht goes down anymore) and buy a stock that pays something like 5-7% dividend.

 

BP as an example.

 

If you want some Thai stocks with a possible upside Kerry (KEX) sub 40,  Bangkok Bank sub 100, PTT around 32.

 

ETF's have pretty outrageous fees in Thailand.

 

If you are a passive investor - you can use Etoro's copy trading.

 

This guy is a good watch:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-CfltxhlMMCT5pJNIfQhlQ

 

You can copy or follow his trades using:

 

https://www.etoro.com/people/robertmerc

 

Good luck!

 

RAZZ

Edited August 5, 2021 by RAZZELL

[tomacht8]

Definitely diversify. But there is no general answer for your 15 million THB. That depends entirely on your individual situation. For example, would you have time to look after your own equity portfolio or would you prefer to buy equity funds? And / or rather buy a small condo and generate rental income.
From a security perspective, it is always better to diversify your investment broadly across different asset classes. And also across borders. Don't just invest everything in Thailand.

[Khabib]

Perhaps buy some gold. 3 million in Bangkok bank gets a gold card, which entitles the holder to a safety deposit box. Gold will provide safety against the declining baht, but obviously, it's not risk free.

[RAZZELL]

I'm also heavily in "PSFE" - Paysafe - a payments system.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paysafe

 

Massively down at the moment from it's BFT Spac days...but earnings in a week and hopefully will see the tide turn...if not there will be more pain...!!! ????????????????

 

It's a one to three year hold. ????

 

RAZZ

Edited August 5, 2021 by RAZZELL

[mokwit]

2 hours ago, pattayapip said:

Money seems to be trapped here as has been drip fed from Salary payments

If you have a work permit you should be able to get it out.

[RAZZELL]

Oh, one more bit of advice...ignore anyone who PM's you! ????

 

 

RAZZ

[stubuzz]

2 hours ago, RAZZELL said:

ETF's have pretty outrageous fees in Thailand.

Are mutual funds ETF's?

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Save-And-Invest/Mutual-Funds

[YT3k72Em]

11 hours ago, mokwit said:

If you have a work permit you should be able to get it out.

Yes, just go to the bank with your work permit and you can transfer it, or set up the beneficiary account and then do the transfers online.

[gk10012001]

I offer my portfolio as an example.  It gives me over 5% dividends and interest, some of which is tax free (tax free municipal bond ETFs, and some of my holdings are in my ROTH IRA from which any monies are tax free.  ETFs have low fees.  I kind of like the preferred stock funds, and some bond funds.  This spreads things around as those funds hold many many stocks in them.  I hold a few individual stocks.  I trade very little.  Over the years I just keep brute force adding monies and reinvesting.  I now get over $60,000 USD a year.  I occasionally sell some covered calls against the stock in my IRA which gives an extra dividend payment or two a year.  Not the best portfolio, and I make no claims it is in anyway optimal.  I just list it.  I have held most of the securities I list below for the last 10 years.   I was holding almost 250 K USD worth of ATT, but sold off about half of it due to their latest plans to split and buy and reduce the dividend with that other company.  I don't quite understand  how that will shake out so in my IRA I sold the T I held in there and bought MO which pays a similar dividend.  PRHYX is closed to new investors but there are similar high yield bond funds such as HYG et al.  I have no idea how Thai securities work and I would not trust investing there anyway. I am a USA citizen and use Etrade as my primary broker.  Note that the Real Estate Investment Trusts REITs, AGNC and NLY have experienced some large price swings this last year but have mostly recovered.  They pay a high interest rate being REITs.  Many opinions out there on how they will perform going forward with interest rates likely to go up.

 

Regular Brokerage account.  ATT (T), NEA, PRTAX, OPTAX,

Traditional IRA:  PRHYX, PFXF, MO, GNC

ROTH IRA:  PRHYX, AGNC, NLY, PGX

[RichardColeman]

If I personally had 15 million baht spare I'd invest it in UK property (or your home country). Would only be return each year in rent of about 3-5%, but house would always be a safe, future asset and a future escape route if needed.

 

My early pension (55) and rental income is enough live on and at 67 my income will be extremely comfortable - and safe. I'm not a share person - but good luck to those that are

[Danny Australia]

1 hour ago, RichardColeman said:

My early pension (55) and rental income is enough live on and at 67 my income will be extremely comfortable - and safe. I'm not a share person - but good luck to those that are

This exactly my current arrangement too. A combination of early pension income and rental property in Perth/Australia. No risk involved and living very comfortably. 

[Andyfez]

Property in Thailand.

Not in resorts - in good city locations and attractive locations. 30 SQM apartments for young middle income singles and couples.

Spend 2 million on a unit and furniture, and rent out for 11,000 a month.

Buy a few, and if some are empty you won't feel the pinch. Don't buy large and expensive cos rental income won't be so good by comparison.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Andyfez

[White Tiger]

If you're leaving your money in Thailand and want to invest it in Thailand, but are also lookin for a low risk investment, then you might consider the property purchase & then rental route that someone else suggested.  Someone suggested buying a condo and looking for a rental income - possibly of more interest might be buying or building a few "hongtel" type rooms near where you live and renting the rooms out to Thais. 

 

Your personal situation will be relevant - living in the city or countryside, married or not?  In the countryside it's cheaper & easer to buy a small plot of land near a school or local factory and build a hongtel.  With a Thai wife she can probably also help with stuff like finding a good plot to build on and getting you a good price for it.  In the city it would be more expensive to do and maybe not as easy to find the land.  (If you're single and land owning is an issue for you as a foreigner, you might consider setting up a Thai company to buy the land and then you could rent the land from that company on a long lease for a pittance). 

 

Anyway if you build a small hongtel you could easily have 10 - 15 rooms for rental to Thais. They might bring in an income of THB1,000 per month per room.  Plus you have the property to protect your capital.  Maybe an outlay of about THB10,000,000 to build 10 - 15 rooms & buy the land.

 

Very occasionally you come across a ready made hong-tel property up for sale - maybe that's something also to consider if the price is right.  

 

[nickmondo]

yesterday it was announced that the Thai Banks will now only guarantee 1 million baht, reduced from 5 million baht as of 11th August.

So if you want to keep 10 million here in Thailand, you are going to need 10 banks for it all to be guaranteed.

 

[nickmondo]

56 minutes ago, White Tiger said:

If you're leaving your money in Thailand and want to invest it in Thailand, but are also lookin for a low risk investment, then you might consider the property purchase & then rental route that someone else suggested.  Someone suggested buying a condo and looking for a rental income - possibly of more interest might be buying or building a few "hongtel" type rooms near where you live and renting the rooms out to Thais. 

 

Your personal situation will be relevant - living in the city or countryside, married or not?  In the countryside it's cheaper & easer to buy a small plot of land near a school or local factory and build a hongtel.  With a Thai wife she can probably also help with stuff like finding a good plot to build on and getting you a good price for it.  In the city it would be more expensive to do and maybe not as easy to find the land.  (If you're single and land owning is an issue for you as a foreigner, you might consider setting up a Thai company to buy the land and then you could rent the land from that company on a long lease for a pittance). 

 

Anyway if you build a small hongtel you could easily have 10 - 15 rooms for rental to Thais. They might bring in an income of THB1,000 per month per room.  Plus you have the property to protect your capital.  Maybe an outlay of about THB10,000,000 to build 10 - 15 rooms & buy the land.

 

Very occasionally you come across a ready made hong-tel property up for sale - maybe that's something also to consider if the price is right.  

 

dude.  for that sort of investment/return he might as well leave it in a deposit account here in Thailand and not have the hassles.

that is an awful idea what you have said

[nickmondo]

5 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

This exactly my current arrangement too. A combination of early pension income and rental property in Perth/Australia. No risk involved and living very comfortably. 

me too.  I built up a nice pot from earning good money in Spanish Real Estate and refurbing my property in the UK to sell at a nice profit.  What with my UK pension that I start to get in 16 months time, and with my current pot of dosh.........I dont need interest or risk... happy days......!!

[nickmondo]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If I personally had 15 million baht spare I'd invest it in UK property (or your home country). Would only be return each year in rent of about 3-5%, but house would always be a safe, future asset and a future escape route if needed.

 

My early pension (55) and rental income is enough live on and at 67 my income will be extremely comfortable - and safe. I'm not a share person - but good luck to those that are

great to see that I am not the only one that has worked hard and planned successfully.

Im not bothering with buying in the UK again though.......its far too much hassle renting out property there, even with agents, because they are absolutely rubbish!  

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Would only be return each year in rent of about 3-5%, but house would always be a safe, future asset and a future escape route if needed.

unless your tenant destroys the place, doesn't pay rent or leaves the place in the middle of the night... there are physical risks to physical properties... 

 

though on paper these types of investments work great... 

[1FinickyOne]

2 hours ago, White Tiger said:

possibly of more interest might be buying or building a few "hongtel" type rooms near where you live and renting the rooms out to Thais. 

That is not only an investment, it is a job... not the worst as long as you understand that physical property deteriorates due to climate... 

[Peterw42]

OP, buy some university accommodations, a small block of 8-10 apartments close to a university.

I know some guys who own similar in Bangsaen close to the uni. They have been fantastic investments, always have tenants, 8-10% return, even after employing an old Thai lady to clean and collect the rent.

[pattayapip]

23 hours ago, mokwit said:

If you have a work permit you should be able to get it out.

No Work Permit, work in and around Southeast Asia Paid from Singapore
But all money in the accounts have been internationally transfrred from Singapore

[pattayapip]

9 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If I personally had 15 million baht spare I'd invest it in UK property (or your home country). Would only be return each year in rent of about 3-5%, but house would always be a safe, future asset and a future escape route if needed.

 

My early pension (55) and rental income is enough live on and at 67 my income will be extremely comfortable - and safe. I'm not a share person - but good luck to those that are

Nearly did a few years ago, but then my understanding the moment it did that my Salary from Singapore would need to be declared, hmmm aint gonna happen, not giving them money for nothing, have 30 Years National Insurance Contributions paid for very little to no benefit with not living there

[pattayapip]

2 hours ago, nickmondo said:

yesterday it was announced that the Thai Banks will now only guarantee 1 million baht, reduced from 5 million baht as of 11th August.

So if you want to keep 10 million here in Thailand, you are going to need 10 banks for it all to be guaranteed.

 

Yes been looking about that and considering options too

[pattayapip]

3 hours ago, Andyfez said:

Property in Thailand.

Not in resorts - in good city locations and attractive locations. 30 SQM apartments for young middle income singles and couples.

Spend 2 million on a unit and furniture, and rent out for 11,000 a month.

Buy a few, and if some are empty you won't feel the pinch. Don't buy large and expensive cos rental income won't be so good by comparison.

Have a couple already, Larger ones sadly, but 1 has been rented since the day i bought it (8 Years now) and the other just became empty, considering selling that one, would think about smaller easier rentals bought at right price, but very few people here now and rental values plummeted, although obviously should be much better than 1%

[pattayapip]

Really appreciate all the replies and different ways people have achieved this goal, would be nice to have 50M+ and not be bothered, but with only the UK Old Age Pension to come in 6/7 Years time, and another very small pension, hard to plan exactly, got to guess how long i will live ???? My friends say i will die rich haha, which i guess is highly possible
Anyway, really appreciate all the ideas and suggestions thankyou

[gk10012001]

10 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

If I personally had 15 million baht spare I'd invest it in UK property (or your home country). Would only be return each year in rent of about 3-5%, but house would always be a safe, future asset and a future escape route if needed.

 

My early pension (55) and rental income is enough live on and at 67 my income will be extremely comfortable - and safe. I'm not a share person - but good luck to those that are

over the years I had many opportunities to buy some properties to rent out, but decided it is not worth the hassle nor the risk.  In the USA the things that can go wrong with a bad tenant really are possible and expensive.  Hard to evict in some states.  The squatter problem is real and does happen.  Dealing with people can be less than pleasant.   Every body I know that thought they would make  money on a rental, only one has, and even then he had two years of legal troubles where he got no rent, and had to spend a lot of time in court.  Luckily, the little house he had paid 79,000 for in 1978 in Northridge, California did appreciate in capital value quite a bit, so he ended up with a 650,000 nest egg in it after 35 years.  Every body else that had one rental property paid out as much as they took in almost.  Some lost rent, some slow paying tenants, upkeep, calls at 2 AM for a broken water pipe, damage to the house, lawyer fees, and of course taxes on your net income from the rent, etc.  If one is going to try the rental game, I highly recommend you have 3 properties if possible.  More hassle, but safer against pitfalls as you spread the risk around. 

 

  One idea I got from a co worker about how to pick a good tenant.  Sure you could do credit report checks, job status, etc.  But he and his Dad found out over the years that the best way to judge a prospective tenant is that before you accept them, you show up at their house un announced.  That way, you can see how they live.  If the house is well kept, the kitchen is clean, etc... then that tells you how they normally live and if they take pride in anything. 

 

   My co worker has one property and they went with a property manager but that did not accomplish much except to take money out of the rent.  There are plenty of resources to read up on about rentals. 

 

  And while very rare, sometimes really odd things happen like in the USA the no Eviction law that was passsed.  The legality of it has gone back and forth since it was put out by the CDC. But the bottom line is for over one year, people literally did not have to pay rent.  Try that on while you are making mortgage payments to the bank for the house you thought you were renting out.

[Peterw42]

26 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

over the years I had many opportunities to buy some properties to rent out, but decided it is not worth the hassle nor the risk.  In the USA the things that can go wrong with a bad tenant really are possible and expensive.  Hard to evict in some states.  The squatter problem is real and does happen.  Dealing with people can be less than pleasant.   Every body I know that thought they would make  money on a rental, only one has, and even then he had two years of legal troubles where he got no rent, and had to spend a lot of time in court.  Luckily, the little house he had paid 79,000 for in 1978 in Northridge, California did appreciate in capital value quite a bit, so he ended up with a 650,000 nest egg in it after 35 years.  Every body else that had one rental property paid out as much as they took in almost.  Some lost rent, some slow paying tenants, upkeep, calls at 2 AM for a broken water pipe, damage to the house, lawyer fees, and of course taxes on your net income from the rent, etc.  If one is going to try the rental game, I highly recommend you have 3 properties if possible.  More hassle, but safer against pitfalls as you spread the risk around. 

 

  One idea I got from a co worker about how to pick a good tenant.  Sure you could do credit report checks, job status, etc.  But he and his Dad found out over the years that the best way to judge a prospective tenant is that before you accept them, you show up at their house un announced.  That way, you can see how they live.  If the house is well kept, the kitchen is clean, etc... then that tells you how they normally live and if they take pride in anything. 

 

   My co worker has one property and they went with a property manager but that did not accomplish much except to take money out of the rent.  There are plenty of resources to read up on about rentals. 

 

  And while very rare, sometimes really odd things happen like in the USA the no Eviction law that was passsed.  The legality of it has gone back and forth since it was put out by the CDC. But the bottom line is for over one year, people literally did not have to pay rent.  Try that on while you are making mortgage payments to the bank for the house you thought you were renting out.

You paint a very negative picture of renting out property.

Yes, there can be risks etc but there are certain things you can do to mitigate the risk.

 

Its a business like any other, so take care of your customers (your tenants). If you cater to the bottom end of the market, offering cheap badly maintained properties that are barely livable, that's the tenants you will get.

 

Offer a decent property that's well maintained, do upgrades and repairs in a timely manner, you usually get good loyal tenants. And higher rent

Most maintenance and repairs are a tax deductions against your rental income, and usually add to the capital value

For a couple of dollars a month you can get landlord insurance that covers bad tenants, damage, legal action and bills if they arise etc.

 

If my tenants call at 2 am with a broken pipe, I will gladly respond and repair at 2am, they are my customers, its not a liability, its customer service. I will have happy customers who will take care of the property, pay the rent etc.

[RichardColeman]

1 hour ago, gk10012001 said:

One idea I got from a co worker about how to pick a good tenant.  Sure you could do credit report checks, job status, etc.  But he and his Dad found out over the years that the best way to judge a prospective tenant is that before you accept them, you show up at their house un announced.  That way, you can see how they live.  If the house is well kept, the kitchen is clean, etc... then that tells you how they normally live and if they take pride in anything. 

My rent with my tenant - a landscape gardener and handyman - is based on 80% rent to my bank and 20% house improvements. Which means that he can save some money by working on my house. For instance one month he buys say some wooden flooring, the next month he charges me the labour for installing it (the 20% of rent). saves for a few months to buy 8 doors, then charges 20% of a month for installing them. The guy has installed new facia, doors, flooring, taken out a door and short wall to make a room bigger (not supporting wall), cleared the garden, built from scratch a covered pergola, etc. The agreement works well and I would encourage other to do a 80/20 with a handyman/carpenter etc.

 

I also when discussing this with the tenant worked for him a s a labourer for a few weeks. When you see someone working hard then you know what kind of person they are.

 

However, this sort of agreement is based on the fact that the tenant wants a very long lease and wants to improve where they live.