A Question about SinoPharm

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Sinovacs reported efficacy is 50% whereas the mRNA vaccines run at closer to 95%.

 

The efficacy values come from test groups where test candidates are ‘chosen’ and are thus usually healthy do not have underlying conditions and are not of extreme age ranges. 

 

Real world effectiveness is harder to measure and is usually lower than the efficacy values because the vaccines may not be as effective for people with sever underling conditions or in extreme age groups. 

 

All of that said: In the absence of availability of ‘other vaccines’ any vaccine is better than none at the moment, especially as Thailand is now also adopting a mix-and-match whereby if someone has Sinovac they can later opt to have AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna, depending on availability. 

 

 

Its easy to look back and say Thailand ’should have’ ordered more, of course it should have. A country which wants to pay trillions for 3 Submarines from China doesn’t want to spend billions ordering up vaccines they may not get to use - something is wrong. 

 

There is also perhaps the ‘arrogance factor’ - Those in positions of decision making power may have believed they’d protected Thailand from the outbreak with the Emergency Decree Protocols and quarantine on entry etc. However, Thailand was not really testing a great deal at that time, thus, a win-win at the time for those in positions of decision making power ‘protecting the nation’.... Since then, pandora’s box has been opened, someone made the mistake of testing a load of labourers, they must have caught it from ’somewhere’ (blame the Burmese coming through the borders and not the Thai’s letting them through !!!).

 

While Thailand sat by, locked down thinking Covid-19 would disappear if it stayed locked down it came to realise that this was not the case...  then commenced the Vaccine panic they are desperately trying to dig themselves out of. 

Sinovac's vaccine efficacy was reported to be 51% in a large Brazilian study. That was the lowest reported level of any study. And efficacy in this context only referred to the transmission of symptomatic cases. When it came to preventing serious symptoms and deaths, that same study gave it a 100% efficacy. Typically, the covid vaccines performs much better at reducing serious symptoms and deaths, than they do at stopping transmission of the disease. 

Of course, these figures were Delta. There have been release of results of large scale studies of how effective Sinovac is at reducing hospitalizations and deaths of this variant.

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

There is certainly no defending the government's past actions to acquire Chinese vaccines when they had opted for only 3 million doses of AZ vaccine when they could have had 10 million.

But that is not where things stand now, is it? mRNA vaccines or adenovirus vector vaccines are in short supply. Unless, of course, you have a secret source that can supply a sufficient quantity here and now. If so, please share that information with the rest of us.

As for traveling to the USA or UK, do you think that's a major concern of most Thai people? 

The question isn't whether most Thai people want the vaccine, but whether they'll accept it in lieu of anything else. So far, the Thai govt hasn't encountered a problem in vaccinating its citizens with Chinese vaccines.

As for your comment about 5 or 6 vaccinations of Chinese vaccines...why do you want to advert your lack of knowledge about vaccines and vaccination? You haven't even mastered basic terminology.

Anyway, stay safe. 

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Sinovacs reported efficacy is 50% whereas the mRNA vaccines run at closer to 95%.

 

The efficacy values come from test groups where test candidates are ‘chosen’ and are thus usually healthy do not have underlying conditions and are not of extreme age ranges. 

 

Real world effectiveness is harder to measure and is usually lower than the efficacy values because the vaccines may not be as effective for people with sever underling conditions or in extreme age groups. 

 

All of that said: In the absence of availability of ‘other vaccines’ any vaccine is better than none at the moment, especially as Thailand is now also adopting a mix-and-match whereby if someone has Sinovac they can later opt to have AstraZeneca, Pfizer or Moderna, depending on availability. 

 

 

Its easy to look back and say Thailand ’should have’ ordered more, of course it should have. A country which wants to pay trillions for 3 Submarines from China doesn’t want to spend billions ordering up vaccines they may not get to use - something is wrong. 

 

There is also perhaps the ‘arrogance factor’ - Those in positions of decision making power may have believed they’d protected Thailand from the outbreak with the Emergency Decree Protocols and quarantine on entry etc. However, Thailand was not really testing a great deal at that time, thus, a win-win at the time for those in positions of decision making power ‘protecting the nation’.... Since then, pandora’s box has been opened, someone made the mistake of testing a load of labourers, they must have caught it from ’somewhere’ (blame the Burmese coming through the borders and not the Thai’s letting them through !!!).

 

While Thailand sat by, locked down thinking Covid-19 would disappear if it stayed locked down it came to realise that this was not the case...  then commenced the Vaccine panic they are desperately trying to dig themselves out of. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There always behind the 8 ball. 

[rabas]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Sinovac's vaccine efficacy was reported to be 51% in a large Brazilian study. That was the lowest reported level of any study. And efficacy in this context only referred to the transmission of symptomatic cases. When it came to preventing serious symptoms and deaths, that same study gave it a 100% efficacy. Typically, the covid vaccines performs much better at reducing serious symptoms and deaths, than they do at stopping transmission of the disease. 

Of course, these figures were Delta. There have been release of results of large scale studies of how effective Sinovac is at reducing hospitalizations and deaths of this variant.

"Of course, these figures were Delta."

 

The Brazilian Sinovac 51% (actual 50.4%) results could not possibly have been for Delta, which came much later from India.  

 

Any vaccine that allows a high levels of transmission eventually leads to more deaths because the next case in the chain may well not be vaccinated at all. Not to mention increased cases contributing to more mutations.  All properties of a vaccine are important during a global pandemic.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, rabas said:

"Of course, these figures were Delta."

 

The Brazilian Sinovac 51% (actual 50.4%) results could not possibly have been for Delta, which came much later from India.  

 

Any vaccine that allows a high levels of transmission eventually leads to more deaths because the next case in the chain may well not be vaccinated at all. Not to mention increased cases contributing to more mutations.  All properties of a vaccine are important during a global pandemic.

Thanks. I left out the word "before".