Seeking opinion on what brand of budget computer is best avoided new or refurbished.

[Tanomazu]

19 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

Nope. I am still using a budget laptop, fourteen years later. Budget laptops purchased in 2007, 2008 & 2010 still working. 

The secret is to not buy crud in the first place; no need to purchase top of the range.

You're wrong. Budget laptops from 2007 will have a processor, and often RAM, that is too slow when compared to what is out now. Some demanding programs will not work on old budget processors for this reason. Top of the range laptops from ten years ago however is another story.

 

Always buy the top of the range processor and RAM you can afford. That's the way to future proof.

[Bruno123]

12 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

You're wrong. Budget laptops from 2007 will have a processor, and often RAM, that is too slow when compared to what is out now. Some demanding programs will not work on old budget processors for this reason. Top of the range laptops from ten years ago however is another story.

 

Always buy the top of the range processor and RAM you can afford. That's the way to future proof.

 

What are you talking?

Do you not understand that I am using the fourteen year old laptop right now? Fourteen years and not ten years. So your theory is clearly nonsense, as is your suggestion that I am somehow wrong. How can that be if I am actually making good use of a fourteen year old budget to midrange laptop? 

Too slow compared to right now?? What a pointless statement! Top of the range CPU from fourteen years ago would still be too slow according to your criteria.

In fact, I upgraded the CPU in this fourteen year old laptop for the princely sum of 270 baht a few years ago. It's currently running Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.

There is no secret, as my experience clearly shows. All three of the laptops are older than yours and they are all still useful. Two of the devices are actually second user. Furthermore if you buy the most expensive laptop with maxxed out RAM; you will certainly pay a premium for it.

If you buy what you need and simply upgrade as you go along, you will save a lot of money and CPU and RAM would be a lot cheaper. I paid 270 baht for the same CPU that was in the top of the range laptop at the time; perhaps the same per RAM module. 

How much would have have paid for that if I bought them new fourteen years ago? A lot, is the answer.

 

Your theory is just that; a theory...which does not work in practice. I have shown that it is not necessary with not just one laptop, but with four.

 

I suggest to go for a good quality, good value and easily upgradeable device. I spent 21,000 baht on this device 14 years ago and I am still using it right now. 

Another laptop I spent less than 10,000 baht ten years ago and that lasted ten years before the power management chip failed.

1000 baht per annum plus maintenance. 

If my usage warranted a top of the range laptop, then I would buy a top of the range laptop. It doesn't; so I don't. Would be a waste of money in my case.

 

Buy the features you need, rather than having some outdated concept of CPU and RAM. Budget CPU are more than capable and RAM is more than ample in even budget devices these days.

More important is the quality of the components; e.g. A high quality screen would be more important to me than the latest and greatest CPU.

You 'future proof' by buying a device which can be upgraded.

 

 

 

[sammieuk1]

Avoid Acer swift 3 Ryzen about 22k its an asthmatic dog from day 1 ????

[patman30]

make sure whatever you buy has an SSD
win10 needs an SSD, especially if rest is low spec (cannot see win11 being any different)
or be prepared to buy a cheap SSD to replace the HDD
(also be prepared to add more ram)

as for a child also consider
laptop vs PC
a child will likely bash a laptop around more
if they have a PC, they will be learning in their desk and damage is less likely

we have a child staying with us using a PC for school work
TBH just for school you can get away with a tablet
they only use LINE, Youtube and google sheets
but we use an AIO which i had to recently upgrade with an SSD as you need to with Win10
(even though it had intel optane)

One thing i strongly suggest is Kaspersky kids
at only $15 a year with unlimited profiles

allowing you to set a profile for school work, 1 for free time, 1 for offline use etc.
 

[patman30]

30 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

I paid 270 baht for the same CPU that was in the top of the range laptop at the time

????........????????

[Bruno123]

10 minutes ago, patman30 said:

????........????????

 

It's a shame to see people's brains deteriorate over time;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/115470548

 

Top of the range model at the time probably had a TL-50/52/56. Mine came with an MK-36 which I upgraded to the TL-60 for 270 equivalent  when moving to Windows 10.

[Tanomazu]

5 hours ago, Bruno123 said:

 

It's a shame to see people's brains deteriorate over time;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/115470548

 

Top of the range model at the time probably had a TL-50/52/56. Mine came with an MK-36 which I upgraded to the TL-60 for 270 equivalent  when moving to Windows 10.

It is indeed.

 

That processor costs 6 Euro for a reason. It's one of the worst you can possibly buy. It predates 2007.

 

Even if it were to run some applications it will do so in a noticeably user impaired way, meaning if you had a core i3 or i7 you would notice a major difference in the speed of the applications.

 

You obviously can't cut a video you made on it, you can't play many games. If you're just going to use a calculator you can buy a used calculator for much less. ????

[Bruno123]

3 hours ago, Tanomazu said:

It is indeed.

 

That processor costs 6 Euro for a reason. It's one of the worst you can possibly buy. It predates 2007.

 

Even if it were to run some applications it will do so in a noticeably user impaired way, meaning if you had a core i3 or i7 you would notice a major difference in the speed of the applications.

 

You obviously can't cut a video you made on it, you can't play many games. If you're just going to use a calculator you can buy a used calculator for much less. ????

Have you finished posting ridiculousness yet? i3 & i7 did not exist in 2007.

How many people here do you think play games on their ten year old laptops and more so, play games on top of the range laptops from fourteen years ago? I view your post as simply childish.

 

It's a fourteen year old laptop. I use it for general office tasks and organising entertainment; music and video. It does what I need to do. If it did not, I would utilise one of my newer laptops.

Perhaps you can pick out a "top of the range" laptop from fourteen years ago that will do the things that you describe. I think better you stop playing the fool; no one here will take you seriously after such a post.

Cut a video I made on it?? Of course I can edit video on it; maybe 720p. It's fourteen years old, you genius. 

 

Let's take a top of the range laptop from 2007; Dell XPS M1330  

Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 dual-core CPU, 2 GB of DDR2 RAM, and an NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS GPU with 128 MB VRAM. Dell offered the M1330 with a 13.3-inch 1280p x 800p screen. Asking price €1,670(64,653 baht) as compared to my 21,000 baht.

 

 

Tell me about the benefits of the Core2Duo T7300 over my TL-60. You have effectively paid 42,000 baht for an extra GB of RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS. You are such a smart guy. I am sure everyone here will take your advice into consideration when buying a new laptop.

 

 

 

You would pay three times more for that?!

Tell me about the games you would be playing and the videos that you would be 'cutting' on a GeForce 8400M GS with 128GB of video memory

I really don't get why people choose to embarrass themselves on this forum. Seriously, stop it. It's cringeworthy.

[Tanomazu]

24 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

Have you finished posting ridiculousness yet? i3 & i7 did not exist in 2007.

How many people here do you think play games on their ten year old laptops and more so, play games on top of the range laptops from fourteen years ago? I view your post as simply childish.

 

It's a fourteen year old laptop. I use it for general office tasks and organising entertainment; music and video. It does what I need to do. If it did not, I would utilise one of my newer laptops.

Perhaps you can pick out a "top of the range" laptop from fourteen years ago that will do the things that you describe. I think better you stop playing the fool; no one here will take you seriously after such a post.

Cut a video I made on it?? Of course I can edit video on it; maybe 720p. It's fourteen years old, you genius. 

 

Let's take a top of the range laptop from 2007; Dell XPS M1330  

Intel Core 2 Duo T7300 dual-core CPU, 2 GB of DDR2 RAM, and an NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS GPU with 128 MB VRAM. Dell offered the M1330 with a 13.3-inch 1280p x 800p screen. Asking price €1,670(64,653 baht) as compared to my 21,000 baht.

 

 

Tell me about the benefits of the Core2Duo T7300 over my TL-60. You have effectively paid 42,000 baht for an extra GB of RAM and a NVIDIA GeForce 8400M GS. You are such a smart guy. I am sure everyone here will take your advice into consideration when buying a new laptop.

 

 

 

You would pay three times more for that?!

Tell me about the games you would be playing and the videos that you would be 'cutting' on a GeForce 8400M GS with 128GB of video memory

I really don't get why people choose to embarrass themselves on this forum. Seriously, stop it. It's cringeworthy.

You're missing the point. Nobody in their right mind would "update" their processor in 2021 to one built in 2007. Your argument would make sense if you could buy a budget laptop and 15 years into the future update the CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive etc for 6 bucks a piece. But you can't. For a start a motherboard from 2007 would not run a modern core i7 plus, would not accept RAM above a certain value, and you need 8 RAM today. To say nothing of graphics performance.

 

Actually I play games on my 10 year old laptop and I edit video on it. You know why? Because I can. Because I bought a core i7 in 2011. And even that is a stretch and does not work with a number of current games. If I'd bought a budget laptop in 2011 I'd be well and truly screwed if I didn't have a more modern Asus and would basically have an expensive calculator.

 

To be fair you can use an old pc as a media streamer, but it's not really a fully useable laptop in 2021 if it's a 2007 budget buy.

 

2007 is too far in the past. I'd draw the line at ten years. The performance differential is just too big otherwise. Sure you can switch on a 2007 machine and it may run outlook and an old word version. But for a full laptop experience that is comparable to what other people do in 2021 you can't really run a 2007 machine.

 

But you can definitely do so if you have a ten year old core i7. Even then same programs and games won't work though.

 

Of course the AMD Turion 64 X2 compares well with the Intel Core 2 Duo, because the latter is also massively outdated and useless today, those two basically have the same performance. However, the point is not to compare to older versions of 2007, but to what is still giving you a proper user experience in 2021. At a stretch maybe, you could compare a 2008/2009 core i7 laptop, but even then you'd have a problem. Namely RAM. No point having a core i7 if the RAM can't be expanded to 8 RAM. Graphics card performance etc.

 

I guess there is a limit to how far back in time you can go and still have an acceptable user experience.

 

 

 

 

[Bruno123]

15 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

You're missing the point. Nobody in their right mind would "update" their processor in 2021 to one built in 2007. Your argument would make sense if you could buy a budget laptop and 15 years into the future update the CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive etc for 6 bucks a piece. But you can't. For a start a motherboard from 2007 would not run a modern core i7 plus, would not accept RAM above a certain value, and you need 8 RAM today. To say nothing of graphics performance.

 

Actually I play games on my 10 year old laptop and I edit video on it. You know why? Because I can. Because I bought a core i7 in 2011. And even that is a stretch and does not work with a number of current games. If I'd bought a budget laptop in 2011 I'd be well and truly screwed if I didn't have a more modern Asus and would basically have an expensive calculator.

 

To be fair you can use an old pc as a media streamer, but it's not really a fully useable laptop in 2021 if it's a 2007 budget buy.

 

2007 is too far in the past. I'd draw the line at ten years. The performance differential is just too big otherwise. Sure you can switch on a 2007 machine and it may run outlook and an old word version. But for a full laptop experience that is comparable to what other people do in 2021 you can't really run a 2007 machine.

 

But you can definitely do so if you have a ten year old core i7. Even then same programs and games won't work though.

 

Of course the AMD Turion 64 X2 compares well with the Intel Core 2 Duo, because the latter is also massively outdated and useless today, those two basically have the same performance. However, the point is not to compare to older versions of 2007, but to what is still giving you a proper user experience in 2021. At a stretch maybe, you could compare a 2008/2009 core i7 laptop, but even then you'd have a problem. Namely RAM. No point having a core i7 if the RAM can't be expanded to 8 RAM. Graphics card performance etc.

 

I guess there is a limit to how far back in time you can go and still have an acceptable user experience.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you don't mind if I protect myself from your 'wisdom' by placing you on 'ignore'. I'm not a big fan of pointless exchanges.

 

Your suggestion was to buy the latest and greatest and I disagree. No need to read a load of...stuff, when I already know that I am right.

 

I can explain it to you this way.

 

2010: You spend 1500 blah blahs on a top of the range laptop; i7 1st gen

 

 

 

2010: I buy what I need for 500, a lowly i3 and so still have 1000 in reserve:

 

 

2015: If you are lucky your five year old laptop is still working.

 

2015, I buy a new laptop for another 500, a lowly i3:

 

 

2020: You are still using a ten year old laptop and I am ready to spend that remaining 500;

 

I pick up a nice little i5 11th Gen with a Touchscreen: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-13-7000-7306-4-2-11th-gen-i5-512GB-SSD-8GB-RAM-13-3-2-in-1-S-D-/304131535596

 

 

 

whilst you are lugging your old, big and heavy laptop around in a wheelbarrow.

 

You totally missed the point. My point was that with the money saved, I can keep upgrading, where you have spent your budget all at once. I don't need to 'future proof', as I can simply buy what I need with the money saved by only buying what I need.

So it's a nonsense to tell people to buy much more than they need in the hope it will last ten years and still be useful in ten years.

I don't need to worry about that and in the event, my budget laptop is still doing what I need it to do. You also seems to have missed the point that I have other laptops and I am using this one out of choice, as it does the job that I need it to do.

 

So, I'll repeat; your suggestion is neither secret nor sensible.

 

 

[topt]

On 9/7/2021 at 6:50 PM, Tanomazu said:

You're missing the point. Nobody in their right mind would "update" their processor in 2021 to one built in 2007. Your argument would make sense if you could buy a budget laptop and 15 years into the future update the CPU, RAM, graphics card, hard drive etc for 6 bucks a piece.

Actually I almost did............almost in the sense that it was a machine bought in 2007 and in 2019 I updated the HDD to a SSD, the processor to a faster one, a newer wi fi card and tried to add ram but unfortunately found I couldn't.........Bit more than 6 bucks but relatively not much at all......

(must have been before your time as there was a thread on here at the time discussing it )

 

On 9/7/2021 at 6:50 PM, Tanomazu said:

and you need 8 RAM today. To say nothing of graphics performance.

Depends on your usage. I don't play games and don't do intensive video editing.

So whilst my 2GB of Ram is a "little" underpowered the machine does what I want it to all be it probably slower than it could. Currently I have just started dual booting Win 7 with Linux Mint on it and it even manages to handle that.

 

So according to you I cannot be "in my right mind"..............

 

Horses for courses and more than one way to skin a cat spring to mind 

 

[Ks45672]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:29 PM, tomazbodner said:

Right now, unreleased version, yes. But official version will undo registry changes and enforce TPM on physical computers, only allow to run without it on VM. Actually even insiders whose hardware isn't marked as Win 11 compatible are being kicked out from Win 11 program until they upgrade hardware.

 

You're free to take risk, though. It is your money, after all.

You're allowed to install it manually on old machines , they just won't support you if things don't work out well running it on old hardware it wasn't designed for 

 

 

 

 

[patman30]

On 9/7/2021 at 8:04 AM, Bruno123 said:

 

It's a shame to see people's brains deteriorate over time;

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/115470548

 

Top of the range model at the time probably had a TL-50/52/56. Mine came with an MK-36 which I upgraded to the TL-60 for 270 equivalent  when moving to Windows 10.

i do not doubt you bought some cheap CPU
i doubt
"that was in the top of the range laptop at the time "

no way was you paying 270 baht for any CPU that was as you said
"in the top of range laptop at that time"

That CPU was released in 2007
Win10 in 2015
that CPU certainly was NOT in high end laptops at that time

[hansje1980]

There is no difference inside any windows laptop or desktop computer. I mean no matter whether you buy HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, or whatever unknown brand, they all use the same components when looking at the same specifications. 

 

The only difference is the software they use, which I don’t like, I prefer zero installed software when I buy a laptop or desktop pc, just a clean Windows.

The other difference would be your own taste, each brand has their own design and looks.

 

Simply put; an INTEL CORE I5-1135G7 / 8 GB DDR4 / 512 GB NVMe M.2 SSD / NVIDIA GEFORCE MX 450 by ASUS is as fast as a INTEL CORE I5-1135G7 / 8 GB DDR4 / 512 GB NVMe M.2 SSD / NVIDIA GEFORCE MX 450 by HP
 

It’s always better to look at what you need it for, especially if you are looking for something in a specific price range ????

[Bruno123]

5 hours ago, patman30 said:

i do not doubt you bought some cheap CPU
i doubt
"that was in the top of the range laptop at the time "

no way was you paying 270 baht for any CPU that was as you said
"in the top of range laptop at that time"

That CPU was released in 2007
Win10 in 2015
that CPU certainly was NOT in high end laptops at that time

 

You will look back at this post one day, in embarrassment; never being able to delete it.

[Bruno123]

2 hours ago, hansje1980 said:

There is no difference inside any windows laptop or desktop computer. I mean no matter whether you buy HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, or whatever unknown brand, they all use the same components when looking at the same specifications. 

 

The only difference is the software they use, which I don’t like, I prefer zero installed software when I buy a laptop or desktop pc, just a clean Windows.

The other difference would be your own taste, each brand has their own design and looks.

 

Simply put; an INTEL CORE I5-1135G7 / 8 GB DDR4 / 512 GB NVMe M.2 SSD / NVIDIA GEFORCE MX 450 by ASUS is as fast as a INTEL CORE I5-1135G7 / 8 GB DDR4 / 512 GB NVMe M.2 SSD / NVIDIA GEFORCE MX 450 by HP
 

It’s always better to look at what you need it for, especially if you are looking for something in a specific price range ????

 

You know that this is not correct...don't you?

It's like you were looking for a problem to fit the solution and decided to write something...anything.

 

The you write the ONLY difference is......and later write about ANOTHER difference that is different from the ONLY difference.

 

In other words, there are differences in build quality, software, warranty offered...and even in the components. Just because they use the same CPU, doesn't mean they use the same Motherboard or SSD or RAM or screen or...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HappyExpat57]

On 9/5/2021 at 5:04 PM, Swiss1960 said:

Never had problems with Dell and HP, but always with Lenovo

Same here. I bought a new low end Lenovo, took it home, and within four hours I destroyed it. I wouldn't even give it away, I wanted that garbage destroyed!

[hansje1980]

14 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

 

there are differences in build quality, software, warranty offered...and even in the components. Just because they use the same CPU, doesn't mean they use the same Motherboard or SSD or RAM or screen or...

I'm saying that if ALL of them would use the SAME hardware (not gonna write down the whole list of components, I thought you would understand what I was trying to say as there is NO need to focus on a specific brand) then there is NO difference in terms of BRAND. Brand would just be a name + different look

Geesh relax dude ????

[Bruno123]

35 minutes ago, hansje1980 said:

I'm saying that if ALL of them would use the SAME hardware (not gonna write down the whole list of components, I thought you would understand what I was trying to say as there is NO need to focus on a specific brand) then there is NO difference in terms of BRAND. Brand would just be a name + different look

Geesh relax dude ????

Nice try...but what you actually wrote was;

 

Quote

There is no difference inside any windows laptop or desktop computer. I mean no matter whether you buy HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, or whatever unknown brand, they all use the same components when looking at the same specifications. 

But now you write IF they would use exactly the same components; but they don't. So it's a totally pointless and misleading statement IMHO.

Your initial premise is a fallacy.

Even if the headline components looked the same on the outside; there could be many variables inside. 

Then of course build quality comes into it. Also design. Your post does not ring true on any level. Sorry.

[hansje1980]

1 hour ago, Bruno123 said:

they all use the same components when looking at the same specifications.

thats the same ????

[2 is 1]

FYI, say whit me MacBook......

[Bruno123]

4 hours ago, hansje1980 said:

thats the same ????

Don't ignore the IF that you wrote.

 

IF makes all the difference. They don't all use the same components. They aren't all made by the same factories and the same people. Your assertion was just wrong from the beginning.

Just accept it and move on...

[metisdead]

A post with insulting comments to the other member has been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

 

[Rimmer]

more baiting and bickering posts have been removed, keep this up and the topic will be closed.

 

 

Enough with the on going reports on this thread it is now closed