Warning from Pattaya hotel industry boss of a Chinese takeover, loss of income to the economy

[Albert Zweistein]

11 hours ago, petedk said:

They have ways around that. Many luxury houses near us have been bought up by a Chinese gang,. They came around here the other day taking photos of all the houses and asked us if our house was for sale. They have Thais to manage the houses which are then rented out to Chinese people. 

 

Yes, the company buys the properties. The website of the company mentions that they have a private jet, private helicopters and yachts and luxury cars (Rolls Royce, Porche etc.). Yes, it's all true. I happen to know someone who works for them and that person posts photos of the private jet and other houses on Facebook. 

 

When they start to buy the hotels we will see an invasion of Chinese tourists

Do you mind to share te name of that website ?

[bendejo]

2 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

This is why China has not yet, gone out to invade another country with its military. China just buys 

  many assets of another country, and basically owns that other country indirectly.

   Pretty clever.

Around 10 years ago Warren Buffett bought a large piece of North American railroad infrastructure for something like US$50 billion.  I suspect part of his motivation was to prevent the continent from becoming part of the Belt & Road initiative.

I was in South America when Evo Morales became president of Bolivia (first person of indigenous origins to hold such position).  A few days after the election China sent a jet to fetch him and fly him to Beijing to meet The Big Boss. (As an aside, I did not see mention of this in English-language media, but it did come up on CNN en Espanol.) Your comment about China owning other countries indirectly is spot on.  

I'm anticipating what will happen in Africa.  The dirt-poor people who work the mines for pennies a day are going to be more angry at the foreigners than at their own corrupt moghuls, and at some point they could be piling up the Chinese corpses.  Will be interesting to see if China sends in military/police/advisors to solve these problems.

 

 

[Autonuaq]

if Thailand not does reform the economy and changes it dependencies, Thailand wil become depending on the new order and that is demanding by money the control over Thailand.

[bangon04]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:52 AM, nausea said:

The Chinese can't own land, right? In fact, wasn't that why the ban on owning land was introduced in the first place, with us Farangs being collateral damage, so to speak.

Lots of "cousins" available among the large population of ethnic Sino-Thais........

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 9/12/2021 at 3:40 AM, bendejo said:

Around 10 years ago Warren Buffett bought a large piece of North American railroad infrastructure for something like US$50 billion.  I suspect part of his motivation was to prevent the continent from becoming part of the Belt & Road initiative.

I was in South America when Evo Morales became president of Bolivia (first person of indigenous origins to hold such position).  A few days after the election China sent a jet to fetch him and fly him to Beijing to meet The Big Boss. (As an aside, I did not see mention of this in English-language media, but it did come up on CNN en Espanol.) Your comment about China owning other countries indirectly is spot on.  

I'm anticipating what will happen in Africa.  The dirt-poor people who work the mines for pennies a day are going to be more angry at the foreigners than at their own corrupt moghuls, and at some point they could be piling up the Chinese corpses.  Will be interesting to see if China sends in military/police/advisors to solve these problems.

 

 

When I worked offshore in Cameroon our driver talked at length about the Chinese, saying how they were here to help poor Cameroonians, then pointing how they owned this and that, including all the big houses and real estate.

[Jimbo2014]

Brilliant strategy.  Start a global pandemic, then make sure you profit off it with dodgy vaccine sales and industry takeovers.  ????

[DLock]

The Chinese are way to smart for the Thai's...and they have all the gold...that Thai's want.

 

The Chinese play the long game. Thai's play the short game. Thai's may think they are winning by selling condo's and land and hotels to the Chinese, but over time, the Chinese will overwhelm the tourist economies like Pattaya. The high speed rail from China to Pattaya will be the final incursion.

 

The smarter bargirls will already be studying Chinese on Duolingo. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Is anyone surprised? Civilizations rot from the inside, and IMO western civilization is pretty rotten. The strong always take over the weak. IMO it's just the next stage of evolution.

If the Chinese can take over without mass warfare, that would at least be something, though not pleasant for the conquered.

Nixon has a lot to answer for, as it's IMO our money they are using.

[Leaver]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:46 PM, DLock said:

The Chinese are way to smart for the Thai's...and they have all the gold...that Thai's want.

 

The Chinese play the long game. Thai's play the short game. Thai's may think they are winning by selling condo's and land and hotels to the Chinese, but over time, the Chinese will overwhelm the tourist economies like Pattaya. The high speed rail from China to Pattaya will be the final incursion.

 

The smarter bargirls will already be studying Chinese on Duolingo. 

 

In my opinion, covid has accelerated China's long game for many countries, including Thailand.  You are correct, Pattaya will eventually become just a cheap Chinese beach side holiday place, becoming less desirable for western tourists, including sex tourists, as times goes by.  

 

The condo's they are buying now, will cause the demise of Thai owned hotels, as they rent them out on the equivalent of the AirBnb platform in China.  Then, the Chinese will buy those hotels as well.  

 

It's already happened in Sihanoukville - Cambodia, and covid has now made Pattaya ripe for the picking.  

[zzaa09]

On 9/14/2021 at 3:55 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Is anyone surprised? Civilizations rot from the inside, and IMO western civilization is pretty rotten. The strong always take over the weak. IMO it's just the next stage of evolution.

If the Chinese can take over without mass warfare, that would at least be something, though not pleasant for the conquered.

Nixon has a lot to answer for, as it's IMO our money they are using.

Remember what Gandhi answered when asked what he thought about Western Civilisation. 

His quip: That would be nice....

[jacko45k]

8 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Remember what Gandhi answered when asked what he thought about Western Civilisation. 

His quip: That would be nice....

Nah, missed that, I think I was down the pub playing darts at the time. 

[Leaver]

On 9/14/2021 at 5:55 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Is anyone surprised? Civilizations rot from the inside, and IMO western civilization is pretty rotten. The strong always take over the weak. IMO it's just the next stage of evolution.

If the Chinese can take over without mass warfare, that would at least be something, though not pleasant for the conquered.

Nixon has a lot to answer for, as it's IMO our money they are using.

 

Western countries should never have allowed China to become the manufacturing hub for the world. This eventually made western countries reliant on China for products.  

 

It's ironic that it was capitalism, seeking out cheaper manufacturing costs and higher profits, that turned western businesses towards a communist country for manufacturing, which later saw China grow to become a super power.  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:44 AM, Leaver said:

 

Western countries should never have allowed China to become the manufacturing hub for the world. This eventually made western countries reliant on China for products.  

 

It's ironic that it was capitalism, seeking out cheaper manufacturing costs and higher profits, that turned western businesses towards a communist country for manufacturing, which later saw China grow to become a super power.  

Indeed. It is IMO western money that made them what they are today.

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 9/11/2021 at 10:29 AM, Leaver said:

The Chinese will bring in their own staff, their own hookers, and have their own illegal gambling rooms.  This is on top of their own hotels, restaurants, bars, karaoke, and nightclubs.  

I like chinese hookers. 

[Leaver]

On 9/21/2021 at 5:02 PM, CartagenaWarlock said:

I like chinese hookers. 

 

Yes.  Some are very pretty.  I did a deal with one off the WeChat app, not long before covid.  

[Leaver]

On 9/20/2021 at 3:19 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed. It is IMO western money that made them what they are today.

 

Yes.  For a communist country, they have certainly embraced capitalism.  ????  

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:19 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed. It is IMO western money that made them what they are today.

And the  foundation of Western money is colonialism and chattel slavery. The revenge of hundred years of humiliation. 

[Henryford]

In looking through Baht and Sold i noticed a lot of hotels in Pattaya up for sale now in the 60-200 million baht range. Many getting out of the business.

[placnx]

8 hours ago, CartagenaWarlock said:

And the  foundation of Western money is colonialism and chattel slavery. The revenge of hundred years of humiliation. 

Environmental destruction in the Thrid World and massive "contributions" to global warming are misdirected if revenge were the motive. How about return to the norm: authoritarian social structure up to the limits of current technology and regional hegemony.

[Leaver]

15 hours ago, Henryford said:

In looking through Baht and Sold i noticed a lot of hotels in Pattaya up for sale now in the 60-200 million baht range. Many getting out of the business.

 

Most likely these premises are mortgaged.  What choice do they have?  

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/25/2021 at 1:04 AM, Leaver said:

 

Yes.  For a communist country, they have certainly embraced capitalism.  ????  

Indeed- all those billionaires. Mao must be spinning in his mausoleum.

[Henryford]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed- all those billionaires. Mao must be spinning in his mausoleum.

Really, aren't the leaders of Communist countries the most corrupt and wealthy of all. Putin is the wealthiest man in the world.

[ourdon]

On 9/11/2021 at 1:54 AM, sanuk711 said:

And the news yesterday that Bill Gates has brought his partner Prince al-Waleed out for $us10 billion (Four Seasons Group) and  says he will be expanding his buy up of Hotel chains especially in Asia. 

 

 

 

 

   

  

 

A good post but my ADD demands a little exactitude.

 

Bill Gates investment company increased its' share in the Four Seasons group from 47.5% to 71.25% by purchasing half of his partners shares for the sum of 2.21 billion.  His partner is the Saudi's Investment company, Kingdom Holding Company.  The whole Four Seasons group is valued at a touch over 10 billion.

The minority shareholders maintained their stakes.

[Walker88]

On 9/11/2021 at 7:54 AM, sanuk711 said:

Does it really matter what Capitalist enterprise owns some hotels in Thailand. Most of the larger chain hotels here are foreign owned.

One family  from Maryland USA owns a chain of 32 different hotel groups, around the world. A lot of them in Thailand

  JW Marriott.-The Sheraton.-The Hyatt- The Ritz-Carlton.--...etc etc.

 

And the news yesterday that Bill Gates has brought his partner Prince al-Waleed out for $us10 billion (Four Seasons Group) and  says he will be expanding his buy up of Hotel chains especially in Asia. -Of course you buy when the conditions are best, the Chinese are just doing that --or as Baron Rothschild, said- "the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own."

 

 

 

 

   

  

 

Not sure who this 'Maryland family' is, but Hyatt is a listed NYSE company whose primary shareholders are the Pritzker family of Chicago. As far as I know, all properties carrying "Hyatt" in their name are owned by the Hyatt Corporation. That would include titles such as Grand Hyatt, Hyatt Regency, Park Hyatt, etc.

[Walker88]

On 9/14/2021 at 10:55 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Is anyone surprised? Civilizations rot from the inside, and IMO western civilization is pretty rotten. The strong always take over the weak. IMO it's just the next stage of evolution.

If the Chinese can take over without mass warfare, that would at least be something, though not pleasant for the conquered.

Nixon has a lot to answer for, as it's IMO our money they are using.

The CP of China took an ideology ripe for exploitation (Marxism) and used it solely for the benefit of Party officials, while not being too upset if the masses were thrown a bone or two.

 

Convince the masses that all are equal and everything is owned by everyone, maintain a self-appointed, answerable-to-no-one structure of leadership, take and exploit any opening (such as when Nixon opened China relations), abuse your masses by making them the world' cheap labor, amass great levels of FX reserves due to becoming the world's producer of, firstly, cheap goods, then try to move up the food chain primarily via technological theft in foreign countries, or else by encouraging tech transfer by dangling the carrot of a billion three domestic consumers, then look for weak spots in lands you hope to make vassal states. Find leaders of other countries anxious to fill their own coffers, buy them off, then use their land either for access (e.g., Myanmar, Greece) or raw materials (many African nations, now Afghanistan). Give it a fancy consultant-provided name (Belt and Road Initiative) and add yet more vassal states.

 

All the while make 'ancient territorial claims, or simply silly ones (such as Taiwan, which the CP has ruled for a grand total of zero seconds). The now-jailed former top CP official Bo Xilai had a Map of Greater China on his office wall that included all of Myanmar. No doubt there are cartographers busily at work producing 'ancient documents that show Chinese control of lands from a millennium or two ago.

 

All of this redefines the term 'soft power', as most was achieved with threats or firing a shot. There are threats, however, so it isn't all soft. Just ask the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc., about contested control of islands, or ask India about contested border areas (which led to a short term war in the early 1960s).

 

There is a weakness, however, that even the supposedly 'long term thinking' CP has failed to control, and that is its own debt structure. The surge of wealth in China created both demand and expectations, with almost every Chinese wanting to own property. That created a bubble, funded by massive debt, and it is now beginning to burst. Evergrande is just the beginning, as all prices/bank assets/etc. are a function of sales on the margin, and weak hands sell. The CP has tried to ringfence Evergrande, and may succeed, but it will cost a lot of money currently earmarked for the Belt and Road Initiative. If the property market gets out of hand, a billion people are going to get really angry, and that could threaten the 'legitimacy' of the self-appointed leadership.

 

I don't think it will get ot of hand short term, but it is something to watch. Now would be a great time for Western and other Asian nations to exploit that weakness in China. Biden should re-start the TPP that the former guy foolishly pulled the US from. Let Asian nations build strong trade relationships with the US (the world's major consumer still), and that takes clout away from China.

 

It may be too late for Thailand to have a future as anything other than a vassal state of China, but it would be worth a shot to try to maintain national sovereignty and economic control.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

There is a weakness, however, that even the supposedly 'long term thinking' CP has failed to control, and that is its own debt structure. The surge of wealth in China created both demand and expectations, with almost every Chinese wanting to own property. That created a bubble, funded by massive debt, and it is now beginning to burst. Evergrande is just the beginning, as all prices/bank assets/etc. are a function of sales on the margin, and weak hands sell. The CP has tried to ringfence Evergrande, and may succeed, but it will cost a lot of money currently earmarked for the Belt and Road Initiative. If the property market gets out of hand, a billion people are going to get really angry, and that could threaten the 'legitimacy' of the self-appointed leadership.

and what do totalitarian governments do when their power is threatened?

Things may go pear shaped sooner than we think, and corona may be the lesser of two evils if the "solution" is the option I'm thinking of.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Walker88 said:

Evergrande is just the beginning, as all prices/bank assets/etc. are a function of sales on the margin, and weak hands sell. The CP has tried to ringfence Evergrande, and may succeed, but it will cost a lot of money currently earmarked for the Belt and Road Initiative. If the property market gets out of hand, a billion people are going to get really angry, and that could threaten the 'legitimacy' of the self-appointed leadership.

I never even heard of Evergrande till I read the name on the forum.

BBC has an interesting article that explains it quite well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58579833

 

We live in times that may become very "interesting".

[Leaver]

On 9/26/2021 at 4:49 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed- all those billionaires. Mao must be spinning in his mausoleum.

A communist country has the most billionaires in the world.

 

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/299513/billionaires-top-countries/

 

So much for everyone being equal under communism.  ????

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Leaver

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[Leaver]

On 9/26/2021 at 12:08 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

I never even heard of Evergrande till I read the name on the forum.

BBC has an interesting article that explains it quite well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58579833

 

We live in times that may become very "interesting".

 

Evergrande could be the next "subprime."  Banks bank with banks.