Electric vehicles of all kinds

[Yellowtail]

57 minutes ago, kwilco said:

What do you expect this report to achieve.

The advent of EVs is a done deal...its happening get used to it.

Any arguments about power supply etc are iirrevant.... it will happen...

There is nothing you can say that will stop them ...

Yes, it does not matter whether it makes sense or not.

[seedy]

On 2/4/2022 at 4:20 PM, Yellowtail said:

Anytime I see a report like this I find it suspect.

Each year, the TÜV Association, made up of a variety of technical inspection companies, releases an annual report based on its findings on the vehicles that pass through inspection stations

The worst by far, however, was the Tesla Model S. 10.7 percent of the model showed up for testing with a defect of some sort. Not only was this the worst EV in the study, the Model S placed third-to-last out of all cars, including ICE vehicles, only besting the Dacia Logan and Dacia Duster.

 

There you go. Without any links, but results of inspections carried out by inspection stations performing Gov't mandated inspections.

 

Yet this does not meet with your "Approval" ?

You done TUV's ? Thought not.

 

If you have any beef with the report take it up with the publisher. Or the Germany Gov't

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, seedy said:

Each year, the TÜV Association, made up of a variety of technical inspection companies, releases an annual report based on its findings on the vehicles that pass through inspection stations

The worst by far, however, was the Tesla Model S. 10.7 percent of the model showed up for testing with a defect of some sort. Not only was this the worst EV in the study, the Model S placed third-to-last out of all cars, including ICE vehicles, only besting the Dacia Logan and Dacia Duster.

 

There you go. Without any links, but results of inspections carried out by inspection stations performing Gov't mandated inspections.

 

Yet this does not meet with your "Approval" ?

You done TUV's ? Thought not.

 

If you have any beef with the report take it up with the publisher. Or the Germany Gov't

I read the report, and I gave reasons why I think it's BS. You've said nothing that has addressed any of those reasons. 

 

I worked for t a TUV UKAS ISO registered manufacturing facility here in Thailand until I retired a couple years ago, you? 

[sezze]

I know 3 people with Tesla model 3 . 2 of them had to go in for repair under warranty , different reasons . I am not saying Tesla makes bad cars , the technology is all new , so defects are more likely to happen . I suspect that the new car brands , like Tesla , also need to learn how to build a car , next to the new technology . The old names in car building do know how to build a car , and only have to learn the new technology .

 

[JustAnotherHun]

53 minutes ago, seedy said:

Each year, the TÜV Association, made up of a variety of technical inspection companies, releases an annual report based on its findings on the vehicles that pass through inspection stations

The worst by far, however, was the Tesla Model S. 10.7 percent of the model showed up for testing with a defect of some sort. Not only was this the worst EV in the study, the Model S placed third-to-last out of all cars, including ICE vehicles, only besting the Dacia Logan and Dacia Duster.

 

There you go. Without any links, but results of inspections carried out by inspection stations performing Gov't mandated inspections.

 

Yet this does not meet with your "Approval" ?

You done TUV's ? Thought not.

 

If you have any beef with the report take it up with the publisher. Or the Germany Gov't

But if you take a closer look at the report you'll see the problems do not result fom batteries or engine, but from brakes, lights etc. This is just a matter of assembly quality, not due to the E-technology. Tesla is relatively new to the market and US vehicles never had the best reputation.

Edited February 5, 2022 by JustAnotherHun

[placeholder]

On 2/4/2022 at 11:16 AM, Yellowtail said:

No, I'm not saying they're lying, but without actual numbers and how get to them, it's meaningless.

 

That the price is going up. 

 

While generally true, your response really has nothing to do with my question. The question, which I have asked you many times with you providing a reasonable response, is that given renewable energy is cheaper, why are they building a gas-fired plant?

 

As I have pointed out any number of times, if renewables were actually cheaper , every provider in the US would be in the process of converting, and there would be no need for mandates of subsidies. 

 

Do you not ever wonder about that? Why would any privately held company not choose to increase their profit given the chance? 

 

Is it your position that "private industry" actually wanted to replace an existing coal-fired plant with a new renewable energy plant which would provide cleaner, lower cost power, but the government came in and stopped them?

 

And now the government is compelling that same "private industry" to build a gas-fired plant, even though it will cost more and be more harmful to the environment than renewable energy plant, is that also correct? 

"No, I'm not saying they're lying, but without actual numbers and how get to them, it's meaningless."

No, a meaningless is one that can't be falsified or proven true. It's definitely not meaningless. And if you knew anything about the media in Australia, you would know that Rupert Murdoch's media empire is very fossil fuel friendly. I haven't been able to find any evidence of anyone disputing the claim. It would be the height of foolhardiness for a public agency to lie about such a thing. You've got nothing.

 

"As I have pointed out any number of times, if renewables were actually cheaper , every provider in the US would be in the process of converting, and there would be no need for mandates of subsidies. "

"And as I have pointed out these are government mandates. These are not necessarily bottom line driven decisions. And I've cited sources like the IEA, IRENA, Lazard Freres that absolutely contradict what you claim. So who should we believe. An anonymous poster on Thaivisa or organizations that offer hard data?"

 

"Do you not ever wonder about that? Why would any privately held company not choose to increase their profit given the chance?"

This comment of yours is just incoherent. If a company can make money on a project and the government throws in some tax breaks as well, why would they complain? I haven't heard about the oil and gas industry complaining about their tax breaks. 

 

"Is it your position that "private industry" actually wanted to replace an existing coal-fired plant with a new renewable energy plant which would provide cleaner, lower cost power, but the government came in and stopped them?"

This is not about my position at all. The government insisted on having a gas powered plant even though it was widely criticized as being financially unfeasible. It asked for bids from private companies to build and operate the plants. . None were forthcoming. So the  government decided to pay for the plant itself. There was never any discussion of building any other kind of plant.

 

"And now the government is compelling that same "private industry" to build a gas-fired plant, even though it will cost more and be more harmful to the environment than renewable energy plant, is that also correct? "

More nonsense. When a government orders, say,  a new building from the private sector, it is ordering the private sector to make that building? Do you understand that "order from" is very different from "order to"?  You think that's how the government works in an economically advanced nation? That they compel private interests to provide services or goods? Let me explain briefly how it works. The government asks for bids and private contractors offer them up with the expectation of making a profit. Generally the lowest bid wins. What is there about this that is unfamiliar to you?  In this case the government is going to pay some private contractor or contractor to build the plant. They may even pay them a fee to run it. But the financial responsibility for the plant will lie entirely with the government. It's going to be a government owned plant. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 2/4/2022 at 6:17 PM, Yellowtail said:

Yes, it does not matter whether it makes sense or not.

EXTRA! EXTRA!

Anonymous Poster on Thaivisa.com Tells Auto Manufacturers Their Investments Don't Make Sense

 

Automakers Are Investing in EVs Like They Mean It

Bloomberg NEF closely tracks automakers’ investment in electrification, as well as in digital initiatives such as smart vehicles and autonomous driving programs. The five biggest U.S. and European automakers have all committed tens of billions of dollars to EVs and digital initiatives.

Investing Billions

Automakers' 2020 investment and announced electric vehicle and digital investment

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/automakers-are-investing-billions-of-dollars-in-evs

 

Toyota to invest $35 billion into battery-powered EVs and roll out 30 models by 2030

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/14/toyota-ceo-announces-automakers-battery-ev-plans.html

 

Hyundai-Kia to Invest $9 Billion to Build EVs in the U.S.

https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/articles/59855/hyundai-kia-to-invest-9-billion-to-build-evs-in-the-u-s/#:~:text=Hyundai Motor Group (HMG)%2C,investments in smart mobility solutions.

[seedy]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I read the report, and I gave reasons why I think it's BS. You've said nothing that has addressed any of those reasons. 

 

I worked for t a TUV UKAS ISO registered manufacturing facility here in Thailand until I retired a couple years ago, you? 

So - you never performed inspections ? Don't give a monkeys if you 'worked' for a TUV company, were YOU certified ?

So if you worked for Airbus you can fly A380's ? 555

I have been an automotive, HD, truck and trailer mechanic for all of my working life.

 

[kwilco]

23 minutes ago, seedy said:

So - you never performed inspections ? Don't give a monkeys if you 'worked' for a TUV company, were YOU certified ?

So if you worked for Airbus you can fly A380's ? 555

I have been an automotive, HD, truck and trailer mechanic for all of my working life.

 

And doesn't it show!

[seedy]

[sezze]

5 minutes ago, seedy said:

It is not about clean or dirty , EV are far better technology then combustion engine . That is a fact . It can be cleaner also , in fact , you can even make all the electric in your own house needed for some daily commuting , but if not , electric engines are still way better then combustion . They are silent , give 100% torque from 0 ,have very long life  , with minimal to no service .

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, seedy said:

Your argument is about 10 years out of date. After all that has been said on this thread, it says more about your own understanding of the topic than what is actually happening.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

Your argument is about 10 years out of date. After all that has been said on this thread, it says more about your own understanding of the topic than what is actually happening.

What is actually happening? 

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

What is actually happening? 

Why did renewables become so cheap so fast?
Fossil fuels dominate the global power supply because until very recently electricity from fossil fuels was the cheapest. This has changed dramatically. In most places power from new renewables is now cheaper than new fossil fuels.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

 

 

Renewable energy has ‘another record year of growth’ says IEA

It has been another record year for renewable energy, despite the Covid-19 pandemic and rising costs for raw materials around the world, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).

About 290GW of new renewable energy generation capacity, mostly in the form of wind turbines and solar panels, has been installed around the world this year, beating the previous record last year. On current trends, renewable energy generating capacity will exceed that of fossil fuels and nuclear energy combined by 2026.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/01/renewable-energy-has-another-record-year-of-growth-says-iea

 

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

 

World's cheapest energy storage will be an iron-air battery, says Jeff Bezos-backed start-up

Secretive US start-up Form Energy finally reveals the chemistry of its revolutionary long-duration battery — which it says will store energy at one tenth the cost of lithium-ion

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/worlds-cheapest-energy-storage-will-be-an-iron-air-battery-says-jeff-bezos-backed-start-up/2-1-1044174

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 2/6/2022 at 7:58 AM, seedy said:

False, as per usual

Comparing comparable ICE & EV vehicles, EV's still come out ahead. Even in Australia which still has the filthiest average due to the high percentage of coal fired power plants.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/10/23/electric-vehicles-are-not-zero-emissionsbut-they-are-much-greener-than-fossil-fuel-and-hydrogen/?sh=62379b91197d

[Yellowtail]

20 hours ago, placeholder said:

Why did renewables become so cheap so fast?
Fossil fuels dominate the global power supply because until very recently electricity from fossil fuels was the cheapest. This has changed dramatically. In most places power from new renewables is now cheaper than new fossil fuels.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

 

 

Renewable energy has ‘another record year of growth’ says IEA

It has been another record year for renewable energy, despite the Covid-19 pandemic and rising costs for raw materials around the world, according to the International Energy Agency (IEA).

About 290GW of new renewable energy generation capacity, mostly in the form of wind turbines and solar panels, has been installed around the world this year, beating the previous record last year. On current trends, renewable energy generating capacity will exceed that of fossil fuels and nuclear energy combined by 2026.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/01/renewable-energy-has-another-record-year-of-growth-says-iea

 

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

 

World's cheapest energy storage will be an iron-air battery, says Jeff Bezos-backed start-up

Secretive US start-up Form Energy finally reveals the chemistry of its revolutionary long-duration battery — which it says will store energy at one tenth the cost of lithium-ion

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/worlds-cheapest-energy-storage-will-be-an-iron-air-battery-says-jeff-bezos-backed-start-up/2-1-1044174

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's so cheap almost no existing fossil fuel plants in the US are converting to renewables.

 

And this is (apparently) because these companies do not care about their profits or their shareholders. They are all run by evil conservatives that believe desecrating the environment is much more important than corporate profit.

[KhunLA]

37 minutes ago, placeholder said:

False, as per usual

Especially here in Thailand, where very little < 25% comes from coal or almost non existent use of oil for energy.

 

30 minutes from my house, and got 2 large solar farms, and the energy 'station' about 3 kms from house in natural gas powered.  All mute for myself, as will be solar, shortly in the future, for charging up my e-motorcycle, e-bike and other lithium battery 'toys'.  Got my eyes on an EV (car), just waiting to see if any incentives come out this year.

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, it's so cheap almost no existing fossil fuel plants in the US are converting to renewables.

 

And this is (apparently) because these companies do not care about their profits or their shareholders. They are all run by evil conservatives that believe desecrating the environment is much more important than corporate profit.

Making stuff up much?

 

Coal power in the United States

Coal power in the United States generates about 20% of the country's electricity.[2][3] It accounted for 39% of production at utility-scale facilities in 2014, 33% in 2015, 30.4% in 2016, 30.0% in 2017, 27.4% in 2018, 23.5% in 2019, and 19.3% in 2020.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The average share of electricity,nominal 278 GW in 2000).

 

Of the operating U.S. coal-fired power plants, 28% plan to retire by 2035

As of September 2021, developers have not reported plans to install any new utility-scale coal-fired power plants in the United States, according to our Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50658

 

Renewables made up 92% of new generating capacity in the U.S. in the first half of 2021

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/solar/renewables-made-up-92-of-new-generating-capacity-in-the-u-s-in-the-first-half-of-2021/#gref

 

Clean Energy Is Canceling Gas Plants

https://rmi.org/clean-energy-is-canceling-gas-plants/

[Longwood50]

Back in 2009 I purchased a Lexus RX 400H Hybrid SUV which was about $10,000 USD more expensive than the comparable gasoline version of the same SUV.  The car was fine, it was a little bit bothersome to hear the engine ignition turn on the engine when it shifted from electric to gas but not terribly so.  With that said, it got no better gasoline mileage than the comparable gas only model, and upon selling, the resale value was virtually the same as the gas model. So it summary I was not a big fan. 

Just purchased a Toyota Cross that is a hybrid.  Given my experience with the hybrid I would have purchased the gas only version but that came only in the stripped down base model, so I bought the hybrid. 

Different result from the same company, Toyota.  The transition back and forth between gas and electric is totally seamless.  You feel nothing as it migrates back and forth. Additionally I am averaging about 19.65 KM per litre.  So I am very pleased with the fuel economy. 

I can't foresee myself ever going 100% electric.  Too much hassle with charging, worrying about where the next charging station might be, and as the vehicle ages, I suspect the value will drop like a rock with the new owner knowing they will face a large expense to replace the entire battery in an all electric car. 

[Yellowtail]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Making stuff up much?

 

Coal power in the United States

Coal power in the United States generates about 20% of the country's electricity.[2][3] It accounted for 39% of production at utility-scale facilities in 2014, 33% in 2015, 30.4% in 2016, 30.0% in 2017, 27.4% in 2018, 23.5% in 2019, and 19.3% in 2020.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States#:~:text=The average share of electricity,nominal 278 GW in 2000).

 

Of the operating U.S. coal-fired power plants, 28% plan to retire by 2035

As of September 2021, developers have not reported plans to install any new utility-scale coal-fired power plants in the United States, according to our Preliminary Monthly Electric Generator Inventory.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=50658

 

Renewables made up 92% of new generating capacity in the U.S. in the first half of 2021

https://www.renewableenergyworld.com/solar/renewables-made-up-92-of-new-generating-capacity-in-the-u-s-in-the-first-half-of-2021/#gref

 

Clean Energy Is Canceling Gas Plants

https://rmi.org/clean-energy-is-canceling-gas-plants/

Do you not have even a single example a a fossil fuel plant that is being replaced by renewables?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Longwood50]

On 10/15/2021 at 6:03 PM, Yellowtail said:

If EVs are so much better and cheaper, why all the mandates? 

 

And we'll still be burning fossil fuel to charge them.

 

Too funny

You are exactly correct.  If the marketplace was convinced that EV were better there would be no need to subsidize them.  No one subsidizes  Iphones, people pay premium prices for them because they offer superior performance.  Now while the electric vehicles may reduce pollution, they still get their electric from power plants.  In the USA 40% of the electric comes from coal, 40% from natural gas or oil, 10% from Nuclear, and 10% from hydro electric, wind, and/or solar.  

With the environmentalists hating power generating plants if Americans went big for EV they would soon outstrip the ability to supply the electric.  In terms of pollution, those plants that generate using coal, natural gas, or nuclear are hardly pollution free and even wind/solar/hyrdroelectric have their polluting aspects.  That is saying nothing of the billions of miles of electric cable required to transmit the electricity to the users.  

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you not have even a single example a a fossil fuel plant that is being replaced by renewables?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you mean by replaced? Do you think that the renewable plant has to be built on the site of a retired coal powered plant to count as replacing it? The coal plants are closing down. No new ones are being built. Their share of power production is collapsing, Most new power plants being built in  in the us are renewable. 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

You are exactly correct.  If the marketplace was convinced that EV were better there would be no need to subsidize them.  No one subsidizes  Iphones, people pay premium prices for them because they offer superior performance.  Now while the electric vehicles may reduce pollution, they still get their electric from power plants.  In the USA 40% of the electric comes from coal, 40% from natural gas or oil, 10% from Nuclear, and 10% from hydro electric, wind, and/or solar.  

With the environmentalists hating power generating plants if Americans went big for EV they would soon outstrip the ability to supply the electric.  In terms of pollution, those plants that generate using coal, natural gas, or nuclear are hardly pollution free and even wind/solar/hyrdroelectric have their polluting aspects.  That is saying nothing of the billions of miles of electric cable required to transmit the electricity to the users.  

Thank you for sharing with us your fossilized thinking about fossil fuels. I got some news for you. If the year was 2014, you might have a point about the share of electricity that coal provies.  But coal no longer provides 40% of us electric power. It's about 20% now. Had you actually read my post, you would have encountered that fact.

 

As for subsidies, fossil fuels are also subsidized.  Just because they are subsidized, does that mean that they are also inherently unprofitable? By your standard, the fossil fuel industry is also a failure.

 

Subsidies for renewables began when renewables still were unprofitable to produce without subsidies. But those days are long gone. 

Why did renewables become so cheap so fast?
Fossil fuels dominate the global power supply because until very recently electricity from fossil fuels was the cheapest. This has changed dramatically. In most places power from new renewables is now cheaper than new fossil fuels.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

The price of batteries has declined by 97% in the last three decades

https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

World's cheapest energy storage will be an iron-air battery, says Jeff Bezos-backed start-up

Secretive US start-up Form Energy finally reveals the chemistry of its revolutionary long-duration battery — which it says will store energy at one tenth the cost of lithium-ion

https://www.rechargenews.com/energy-transition/worlds-cheapest-energy-storage-will-be-an-iron-air-battery-says-jeff-bezos-backed-start-up/2-1-1044174

 

Just like with fossil fuel extracting, the big problem with solar and wind power facilities is that they periodically have to move after they've mined all the wind and the solar energy from a site...oh wait a minute..

 

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you not have even a single example a a fossil fuel plant that is being replaced by renewables?

Since the math seems to have overwhelmed your critical faculties here ya go...

Florida Power & Light blows up its last coal plant, will replace with solar

https://electrek.co/2021/06/17/florida-power-light-blows-up-its-last-coal-plant-will-replace-with-solar/

Georgia Power plans to double renewables, ditch all coal

https://www.eenews.net/articles/georgia-power-to-double-renewables-exit-all-coal/

Renewables Are Fast Replacing Coal, Except in Rural America

https://www.wsj.com/articles/renewables-are-fast-replacing-coal-except-in-rural-america-11628424000

Three U.S. utilities to skip the gas “bridge”, move straight from coal to renewables

https://energypost.eu/three-u-s-utilities-to-skip-the-gas-bridge-move-straight-from-coal-to-renewables/

Edited February 7, 2022 by placeholder

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Since the math seems to have overwhelmed your critical faculties here ya go...

Florida Power & Light blows up its last coal plant, will replace with solar

https://electrek.co/2021/06/17/florida-power-light-blows-up-its-last-coal-plant-will-replace-with-solar/

Georgia Power plans to double renewables, ditch all coal

https://www.eenews.net/articles/georgia-power-to-double-renewables-exit-all-coal/

Renewables Are Fast Replacing Coal, Except in Rural America

https://www.wsj.com/articles/renewables-are-fast-replacing-coal-except-in-rural-america-11628424000

Three U.S. utilities to skip the gas “bridge”, move straight from coal to renewables

https://energypost.eu/three-u-s-utilities-to-skip-the-gas-bridge-move-straight-from-coal-to-renewables/

So in Florida they are replacing 400 Megawatt coal plant with a 75 Megawatt of solar. I wonder where they getting the rest of the power?

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So in Florida they are replacing 400 Megawatt coal plant with a 75 Megawatt of solar. I wonder where they getting the rest of the power?

cherry picking much?

[seedy]

Gotta laugh at the EV fanatics - out of touch with reality much ?

"Plans are to ..."  "By 2035 ..."  "In the Future ..."  "Expect to ... "

Give them some facts - like England regulating times to charge because the existing grid can not handle it ... - Germany all Gung Ho about EV yet at peak times have to import power because their fabled "Green" system can not keep up ...

Get a Grip - enuf of the Wacky Tabaccy - Accept that mass adoption of EV will not happen in your lifetime, unless you are 7 years old.

Who buys EV's - rich white people

No one else can afford them, the countries infrastructure can not keep up, upgrades are a decade or more away.

Come back in 10 years and prove me wrong. And that Ain't Gonna Happen

 

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, seedy said:

Gotta laugh at the EV fanatics - out of touch with reality much ?

"Plans are to ..."  "By 2035 ..."  "In the Future ..."  "Expect to ... "

Give them some facts - like England regulating times to charge because the existing grid can not handle it ... - Germany all Gung Ho about EV yet at peak times have to import power because their fabled "Green" system can not keep up ...

Get a Grip - enuf of the Wacky Tabaccy - Accept that mass adoption of EV will not happen in your lifetime, unless you are 7 years old.

Who buys EV's - rich white people

No one else can afford them, the countries infrastructure can not keep up, upgrades are a decade or more away.

Come back in 10 years and prove me wrong. And that Ain't Gonna Happen

 

Electric Car Market Grows To 29% In Europe As EV Sales Explode!

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/30/29-of-cars-sold-in-europe-were-plugin-electric-vehicles-in-december/

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

cherry picking much?

It's the first one you linked to, and the only one I looked at, but apparently the coal plant you claimed was being replaced the renewables was not. The article was written to make is appear that way but it's just not true.   The shut-down of the Indiantown coal-fired plant was just part of new the gas-fired Okeechobee Energy Center coming online in 2019. 

 

So again, why would Florida Power & Light build a new gas-fired plant when it would be so much cheaper to go with renewables? 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

It's the first one you linked to, and the only one I looked at, but apparently the coal plant you claimed was being replaced the renewables was not. The article was written to make is appear that way but it's just not true.   The shut-down of the Indiantown coal-fired plant was just part of new the gas-fired Okeechobee Energy Center coming online in 2019. 

 

So again, why would Florida Power & Light build a new gas-fired plant when it would be so much cheaper to go with renewables? 

Maybe because it was completed in the year 2019. Which means it must have been planned for well before that. But the price of solar and wind keeps plummeting faster than anticipated. By the way, coal provided power will increase a bit in 2022. You know why? Because the price of gas has shot up. 

 

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So in Florida they are replacing 400 Megawatt coal plant with a 75 Megawatt of solar. I wonder where they getting the rest of the power?

"FPL, the largest energy company in the US as measured by retail electricity produced and sold, currently has  41 solar energy centers throughout the state, with nearly 3,000 megawatts of solar capacity. "