No alcohol in restaurants is "crazy" says restaurateur - allowing music is not the answer

[DoctorB]

10 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

You can cite evidence.. Where did the current and BY FAR most server 3rd wave originate and gain traction ?? Illegally operating nightlife. 

Or you could see this study (VPN needed oddly) 

https://www.texmed.org/TexasMedicineDetail.aspx?Pageid=46106&id=54216

Which lists bars right up there as the highest risk category for transmission.. 



Or of course you could accept that anyone but an idiot would understand that bars and drunk people provide precisely the kind of environment that is near worst case for viral transmission.. 
 

A number of points here. The so called 3rd wave in Thailand may have been  been traced back to a night life venue but is unlikely to have originated there. It would ultimately have manifested itself somewhere even if all bars and restaurants remained firmly closed; just as outbreaks have appeared in Australia and New Zealand under strict lockdown conditions. 

 

The Texas Medical Association document is not an empirical study but a set of ratings based on certain assumptions, thus:-

"The doctors rated the activities assuming that participants are wearing a mask when practical, staying at least 6 feet away from people who are not immediate family members, and washing their hands frequently." OK, the raters were doctors and deserve respect for their opinions but the purpose of the document is to express a point of view.

 

Bars and restaurants in Britain have been open for months now, almost without restrictions, and so far not one localised outbreak has been reported as a consequence. And before you mention the high level of vaccination, it has said been repeatedly, here and elsewhere, that vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission but reduces the risk of serious illness.

 

Finally, to dismiss as an idiot anyone who disagrees with you is both discourteous and disrespectful. I don't agree with your assumptions but equally I don't presume to judge your intelligence. There is no rigidly acceptable truth regarding Covid. See for instance the differences within the medical profession between the proponents of strict lockdown vs the signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration; or those proposing  the administration of hydrochloroquine vs those who say it is ineffective. And among the general public the gulf between vaxers and non-vaxers is profound.

 

 

[The Hammer2021]

It is a stupid ruling. But the Anti Alcohol brigade are very powerful here as is the Islamic and Buddhist fundamentalist lobby.

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:10 AM, Jiggo said:

Quite sad that some people can't live without alcohol for a few months???????? 

No it's not. What is sad is people virtue signalling. Wanting to drink wine with your dinner or even enjoying getting drunk is not the same as: 'not being able to live without alcohol for a few months'

Alcohol consumption is one of the foundations of civilization.

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:03 PM, Johnny Mac said:

Draconian laws from a communist regime who utterly despise alcohol/bars, etc, and couldn't care less if Thai people go broke. An utter disgrace.

Nearer to F***st than communist..

[The Hammer2021]

15 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

A number of points here. The so called 3rd wave in Thailand may have been  been traced back to a night life venue but is unlikely to have originated there. It would ultimately have manifested itself somewhere even if all bars and restaurants remained firmly closed; just as outbreaks have appeared in Australia and New Zealand under strict lockdown conditions. 

 

The Texas Medical Association document is not an empirical study but a set of ratings based on certain assumptions, thus:-

"The doctors rated the activities assuming that participants are wearing a mask when practical, staying at least 6 feet away from people who are not immediate family members, and washing their hands frequently." OK, the raters were doctors and deserve respect for their opinions but the purpose of the document is to express a point of view.

 

Bars and restaurants in Britain have been open for months now, almost without restrictions, and so far not one localised outbreak has been reported as a consequence. And before you mention the high level of vaccination, it has said been repeatedly, here and elsewhere, that vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission but reduces the risk of serious illness.

 

Finally, to dismiss as an idiot anyone who disagrees with you is both discourteous and disrespectful. I don't agree with your assumptions but equally I don't presume to judge your intelligence. There is no rigidly acceptable truth regarding Covid. See for instance the differences within the medical profession between the proponents of strict lockdown vs the signatories of the Great Barrington Declaration; or those proposing  the administration of hydrochloroquine vs those who say it is ineffective. And among the general public the gulf between vaxers and non-vaxers is profound.

 

 

Thankfully anti vaxers are a tiny minority of I'll educated people and not unnaturally...a dieing breed. Anti vaxers only come from rich white countries where, ironically, many illness have been driven out by vaccines! But where people suffer there are no anti vaxers. I was in India when smallpox had finally been eradicated, and polio bought under control. The purblind ignorance of anti vaxers is extraordinary and without exception linked to stupidity and lack of education. 

[cclub75]

2 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Thankfully anti vaxers are a tiny minority of I'll educated people and not unnaturally...a dieing breed. Anti vaxers only come from rich white countries where, ironically, many illness have been driven out by vaccines! But where people suffer there are no anti vaxers. I was in India when smallpox had finally been eradicated, and polio bought under control. The purblind ignorance of anti vaxers is extraordinary and without exception linked to stupidity and lack of education. 

Insults do not solve anything.

 

To compare classic vaccines against polio/smallpox with vaccines based on mRNA new technology against Sars-Cov2 is enough to disqualify you.

 

And is clearly an insult to basic intelligence and basic common sense.

[Johnny Mac]

55 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Nearer to F***st than communist..

True enough. I was being tongue in cheek though...'dictators' works too..

[The Hammer2021]

19 hours ago, cclub75 said:

Insults do not solve anything.

 

To compare classic vaccines against polio/smallpox with vaccines based on mRNA new technology against Sars-Cov2 is enough to disqualify you.

 

And is clearly an insult to basic intelligence and basic common sense.

The anti vax community..sorry...er rabble, does not go into detail about the vaccines they campaign against. I first came across their ideas decades ago along with anti fluoride activists, flat earthers, KKK etc. The same nutters of yesteryear are back exploiting the weak minded about covid vaccines.. They don't deserve respect.

Edited October 5, 2021 by The Hammer2021

[FunkyDunky58]

This government always had and continues to have an obsession with Alcohol. Banning sales and/or consumption is done at the slightest provocation.

[Broken Record]

10 hours ago, FunkyDunky58 said:

This government always had and continues to have an obsession with Alcohol. Banning sales and/or consumption is done at the slightest provocation.

That's because it causes so much damage, it's a dangerous drug, causes so much misery to so many people worldwide, If the good General truly cared for the people, this poison would be removed from the shelves and put on the dangerous drugs list, cos that is where it belongs.

Just because it is legal and governments around the world rake in a fortune from the taxation of it, doesn't get away from the fact that it does an awful lot of harm to an awful lot of people.

Let's face it, if it wasn't taxed by governments it would be banned.

Yes yes, I know ThaiVisa members don't get drunk and cause problems, argue with their wives or shout at the kids, pick fights in bars, drink and drive, attack some innocent guy because they are drunk, damage their bodies through alcohol abuse, same as I doubt they are stupid enough to poison themselves willingly with cigarettes, but a lot of people do these things cos many people are stupid, so laws have to be made to protect the innocent and protect morons from their own stupid actions.

I think the prime minister is being very lenient, personally I would ban the sale of alcohol with immediate effect, tobacco too, it would be my duty as Prime Minister to protect the people, Banning those 2 killers would save 10's of thousands of lives a year.

Abused women of Alcohol fueled abuse partners would thank me, abused children of drunken fathers or mothers would thank me, crime would plummet, vicious attacks, road deaths, personal injury to drunks falling over or smashing a bottle over another drunks head would all plummet.

Would that really be such a bad thing ?

[Mike k]

56 minutes ago, Broken Record said:

That's because it causes so much damage, it's a dangerous drug, causes so much misery to so many people worldwide, If the good General truly cared for the people, this poison would be removed from the shelves and put on the dangerous drugs list, cos that is where it belongs.

Just because it is legal and governments around the world rake in a fortune from the taxation of it, doesn't get away from the fact that it does an awful lot of harm to an awful lot of people.

Let's face it, if it wasn't taxed by governments it would be banned.

Yes yes, I know ThaiVisa members don't get drunk and cause problems, argue with their wives or shout at the kids, pick fights in bars, drink and drive, attack some innocent guy because they are drunk, damage their bodies through alcohol abuse, same as I doubt they are stupid enough to poison themselves willingly with cigarettes, but a lot of people do these things cos many people are stupid, so laws have to be made to protect the innocent and protect morons from their own stupid actions.

I think the prime minister is being very lenient, personally I would ban the sale of alcohol with immediate effect, tobacco too, it would be my duty as Prime Minister to protect the people, Banning those 2 killers would save 10's of thousands of lives a year.

Abused women of Alcohol fueled abuse partners would thank me, abused children of drunken fathers or mothers would thank me, crime would plummet, vicious attacks, road deaths, personal injury to drunks falling over or smashing a bottle over another drunks head would all plummet.

Would that really be such a bad thing ?

The US tried proabition it didn't work other than create a lot of criminals and a few very wealthy people (the Kennedys) and people still drank 

[Broken Record]

1 hour ago, Mike k said:

The US tried proabition it didn't work other than create a lot of criminals and a few very wealthy people (the Kennedys) and people still drank 

Smoking, it was advertised  as manly or sophisticated even sexy, ( It Stinks). Now people have more knowledge and people know how damaging it is, yet people still smoke, that's how stupid some people are, so they have to be protected from themselves.

Alcohol is similar, it's associated with fun, good times, also seen as manly or even sexy or sophisticated, certainly was before TV advertising was stopped, yet is a drug that causes untold misery for Millions of people directly or indirectly, yet it's still legal in most places. 

The Tobacco industry is a powerful entity that manages to produce a product that kills millions of people each and every year, totally legal, to me that is total insanity.

Between the two, they are involved in the deaths of around 9 Million people a year, every year.

If I made a drug that would kill 9 Million people a year, what do reckon my chances would be of selling it legally ?

Smoking should be number one on the list to Ban, with immediate effect saving millions of lives a year, addicts will whine about it, but they need enforcement , they are too stupid to stop themselves.

Then Alcohol would be number two on the list, also saving Millions of people a year who are affected directly or indirectly, I personally have seen the terrible effects, the human cost of this dangerous drug, stop the madness Khun Prayut Chan-O-Cha, it kills many Thai citizens every year, time for it to be stopped.

I'd ban both if I was in office.

 

 

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

9 hours ago, Broken Record said:

Smoking, it was advertised  as manly or sophisticated even sexy, ( It Stinks). Now people have more knowledge and people know how damaging it is, yet people still smoke, that's how stupid some people are, so they have to be protected from themselves.

Alcohol is similar, it's associated with fun, good times, also seen as manly or even sexy or sophisticated, certainly was before TV advertising was stopped, yet is a drug that causes untold misery for Millions of people directly or indirectly, yet it's still legal in most places. 

The Tobacco industry is a powerful entity that manages to produce a product that kills millions of people each and every year, totally legal, to me that is total insanity.

Between the two, they are involved in the deaths of around 9 Million people a year, every year.

If I made a drug that would kill 9 Million people a year, what do reckon my chances would be of selling it legally ?

Smoking should be number one on the list to Ban, with immediate effect saving millions of lives a year, addicts will whine about it, but they need enforcement , they are too stupid to stop themselves.

Then Alcohol would be number two on the list, also saving Millions of people a year who are affected directly or indirectly, I personally have seen the terrible effects, the human cost of this dangerous drug, stop the madness Khun Prayut Chan-O-Cha, it kills many Thai citizens every year, time for it to be stopped.

I'd ban both if I was in office.

 

 

 

 

 

You clearly don't believe in liberty and personal responsibility. You can't simply ban everything that is dangerous. You'd end up banning rock climbing, boxing, fatty foods, motorsports etc. Just let people out of their homes to work and pay taxes then lock them up again. Much like the past 2 years actually.

 

They key is to educate people about the dangers. After that, it is their choice. Your overly authoritarian stance has been tried and failed many times. If you look at the 12 early signs of fascism it's clear to see that Thailand doesn't need to go any further down that road. In fact, the list could almost be describing the current regime. I'd give them a solid 10/12. 

 

 

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/31/the-12-early-warning-signs-of-fascism/

 

[jacko45k]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:46 PM, webfact said:

They are allowed to not wear a mask when singing.

How about those playing wind instruments, like bagpipes?

[StevieAus]

On 10/2/2021 at 1:03 PM, Johnny Mac said:

Draconian laws from a communist regime who utterly despise alcohol/bars, etc, and couldn't care less if Thai people go broke. An utter disgrace.

I don't think they are a communist regime in fact far to the right of the political spectrum.

Unfortunately Covid has given governments around the world the excuse to apply restrictions

previously unknown.

In Australia we have had power crazy State governments closing State borders at the drop of the hat leaving people stranded, while denying people the right to visit dying relatives.

Of course if you are a team of footballers or tennis players it’s no problem.

While this is happening police are enforcing health regulations by issuing massive fines

 

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:24 AM, Broken Record said:

Smoking, it was advertised  as manly or sophisticated even sexy, ( It Stinks). Now people have more knowledge and people know how damaging it is, yet people still smoke, that's how stupid some people are, so they have to be protected from themselves.

Alcohol is similar, it's associated with fun, good times, also seen as manly or even sexy or sophisticated, certainly was before TV advertising was stopped, yet is a drug that causes untold misery for Millions of people directly or indirectly, yet it's still legal in most places. 

The Tobacco industry is a powerful entity that manages to produce a product that kills millions of people each and every year, totally legal, to me that is total insanity.

Between the two, they are involved in the deaths of around 9 Million people a year, every year.

If I made a drug that would kill 9 Million people a year, what do reckon my chances would be of selling it legally ?

Smoking should be number one on the list to Ban, with immediate effect saving millions of lives a year, addicts will whine about it, but they need enforcement , they are too stupid to stop themselves.

Then Alcohol would be number two on the list, also saving Millions of people a year who are affected directly or indirectly, I personally have seen the terrible effects, the human cost of this dangerous drug, stop the madness Khun Prayut Chan-O-Cha, it kills many Thai citizens every year, time for it to be stopped.

I'd ban both if I was in office.

 

 

 

 

 

Alcohol consumption started at the dawn of civilization indeed may have responsible for the end of itinerant, nomadic tribes and the start of settled agricultural communities. There is no comparison between alcohol and tobacco.

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/7/2021 at 9:44 AM, JonnyF said:

You clearly don't believe in liberty and personal responsibility. You can't simply ban everything that is dangerous. You'd end up banning rock climbing, boxing, fatty foods, motorsports etc. Just let people out of their homes to work and pay taxes then lock them up again. Much like the past 2 years actually.

 

They key is to educate people about the dangers. After that, it is their choice. Your overly authoritarian stance has been tried and failed many times. If you look at the 12 early signs of fascism it's clear to see that Thailand doesn't need to go any further down that road. In fact, the list could almost be describing the current regime. I'd give them a solid 10/12. 

 

 

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/01/31/the-12-early-warning-signs-of-fascism/

 

Those 12 points neatly summarise  most socialist societies such as China, Cuba and the Old Soviet  Union. The list also describes Islamic states like Saudi  and Iran perfectly