The Infectious Nature of Misinformaton

[Chomper Higgot]

On the subject of COVID, COVID Vaccines and COVID treatments we are regularly treated to posts, both here and on other social media, that overtly present misinformation or that argue a point of view that is based upon misinformation. There are sufficient numbers of these posts over a sufficient period of time for patterns to emerge.

 

One particular form of misinformation is the presentation of a piece of scientific research (often not yet published) or a government report that is accompanied by a misrepresentation of the research, report and/or data. 

 

There are two things to observe in this; firstly we have multiple people who have 'found' the very same research/report, despite it often being buried in some obscure corner of the internet. 

Having found the research/report, these multiple people plough through pages of often complex data, text and diagrams to settle upon the same false representation of the what the research/report has to say.

 

There is of course another explanation, and to borrow a lesson from epidemiology, 'if you find a wide spread common disease, look for a wide spread and common cause'.

 

The alternative is the misinformation is being disseminated from a common source and is being spread, disease like, across social media. 

 

This explains why misinformation posts are repeated almost verbatim by numerous individuals and why those individuals don't actually understand the research/report/data they are basing 'their all too familiar arguments' upon.

 

The irony, misinformation spreading disease like in the furtherance of undermining the fight against a disease that has killed over 4,500,000 people and continues to kill. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Karlsson]

You are a good Citizen, the Government is proud of You. Now please go back into the basement and wait for further health Instructions

[connda]

Hitting the sauce a little early 'eh? 

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

In my opinion in part it's a bit like faith in god. People start with belief in god and work back from there to prove it's true. In this area it can start in people looking to explain their own misfortune, or other issue in life, by believing in some conspiracy theory. It feels good  being told by some commentator or politician that you are the smart one, those in authority in their field are the bad ones,  and all the others are the sheep. 

Either that, or they may be just like the rest of us, and get it wrong sometimes.. but are too stubborn to see that the foundation of their belief is in error as they don't want the stuff they believe in to come tumbling down. 

Edited October 2, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

Hitting the sauce a little early 'eh? 

 

Or perhaps a nerve. 

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

In my opinion in part it's a bit like faith in god. People start with belief in god and work back from there to prove it's true. In this area it can start in people looking to explain their own misfortune, or other issue in life, by believing in some conspiracy theory. It feels good  being told by some commentator or politician that you are the smart one, those in authority in their field are the bad ones,  and all the others are the sheep. 

Either that, or they may be just like the rest of us, and get it wrong sometimes.. but are too stubborn to see that the foundation of their belief is in error as they don't want the stuff they believe in to come tumbling down. 

The confluence between religion, politics and coronavirus misinformation is more than incidental. Furthermore, within this political nexus is a narrower geopolitical influence. The misinformation is far more likely to come from the US red states than anywhere else on the planet. Other hot spots are those countries where the Murdoch press has influence. These outlets see that extremist niche marketing of conspiracy theories and misinformation to a particular segment of society has a strong profit motive. All the more because many platforms are now denying them a voice.

 

https://slate.com/technology/2021/09/youtube-antivax-covid-19-facebook-twitter.html

[Airalee]

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

The confluence between religion, politics and coronavirus misinformation is more than incidental. Furthermore, within this political nexus is a narrower geopolitical influence. The misinformation is far more likely to come from the US red states than anywhere else on the planet. Other hot spots are those countries where the Murdoch press has influence. These outlets see that extremist niche marketing of conspiracy theories and misinformation to a particular segment of society has a strong profit motive. All the more because many platforms are now denying them a voice.

 

https://slate.com/technology/2021/09/youtube-antivax-covid-19-facebook-twitter.html

We all have lost friends and family members to Rupert Murdochs propaganda machine.

The consumers of his media products dwell in an alternative reality of fake news and conspiracy theories. Drip feeding the viewers a steady dose of hate, fear, outrage and disinformation to support a corporate political agenda.

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by LarrySR

[Salerno]

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The alternative is the misinformation is being disseminated from a common source and is being spread, disease like, across social media. 

 

Google "The Disinformation Dozen".

[Jeffr2]

10 hours ago, Karlsson said:

You are a good Citizen, the Government is proud of You. Now please go back into the basement and wait for further health Instructions

Sad times when people think like this.

 

I'm in Portugal where almost everyone who is eligible has been jabbed. How'd they do it? Kept politics out of it.

 

Many here on this forum have fallen for the lies of the fake news right wing media outlets. Insane.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 hours ago, Salerno said:

Google "The Disinformation Dozen".

Yes, all those ‘free thinkers’ being lead by the nose.

 

19 hours ago, Karlsson said:

You are a good Citizen, the Government is proud of You. Now please go back into the basement and wait for further health Instructions

 

[Rimmer]

A post with a link to a conspiracy troll website has been removed

[CharlieH]

Reported post and replies to it removed.

[Jeffr2]

Good article.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dr-nirav-shah-answers-questions-223200744.html

 

Especially this part. Something anti vaxxers don't care about. Others.

 

Second, our personal choices have public consequences. The first three words of the Declaration of Independence — "We the people" — acknowledge that our democratic republic is a shared enterprise. As individuals in a society, we exercise our liberties within guardrails established to ensure a functioning society. Our choices affect others.

[Atlantis]

3 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

certain members here on the vaccination thread need surely to be permanently banned for persistent dangerous anti vax misinformation in clear violation of at least four forum rules re. inflammatory / provocative / abusive / inciting posts. 

 

one member even wrote they would be glad if all people wanting covid vax were denied it.

in practice thats supporting the random murder of millions. multiple forum rules broken…….

 

however I believe in absolute freedom of expression. such actions having non- criminal consequences.

 

no interest in protecting gullible uneducated fools, unable / unwilling to separate emotion from logic, or cant / wont distinguish real scientific/historic FACTS from pseudo science/ discredited conspiracy theories / religious nonsense……..

I think I know the post you are referring to thank you for reminding me to give him a trophy emoticon right now; his underappreciated sarcasm was only spoiled by his explanation a short while after.

WhiteBuffalo, its a little ironic how you are almost deliberately misconstruing (I'm going to be kind and presume you're not that dumb) mockery and contempt for pro-mandate folk when the context was all too clear to see. Misinformation cuts both ways, and you may be a bigger part of the problem than you realize.
 

[sucit]

On 10/2/2021 at 4:53 PM, Karlsson said:

You are a good Citizen, the Government is proud of You. Now please go back into the basement and wait for further health Instructions

Exactly. This is exactly what big pharma and governments want you to say. And you think you are fighting the good fight against misinformation lol

 

The true information is being suppressed. What people fail to realize is most people against the vaccine are simply stating facts: we don’t know what will happen with that yet, it’s very experimental, there has never been a vaccine like it rolled out this fast. 
 

Those are facts. And tomorrow everything could change, and all those who got vaxxed could be at a disadvantage somehow. Maybe not likely but you’re not getting the point if you don’t see what I Amy saying. 

[Atlantis]

Salerno, you probably should learn the difference between Disinformation and Misinformation. Both are bad, but are completely different in nature and intent. You and so many others on here casually switch between the two. It betrays a very shallow understanding of what is actually going on in the breakdown of information dissemination.

Misinformation goes both ways. Some sources are considerably worse than others.

[Atlantis]

Hello Chomper

Thank you for your often long and detailed posts, often with decent sources. I note that you're one of the less hysterical people on here and I've read from beginning to end a few of your very long exchanges with other posters.

Your post above is very problematic and I'm glad that you included:
 

On 10/2/2021 at 4:32 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

that overtly present misinformation or that argue a point of view that is based upon misinformation

This last part in bold is the blind spot of so many people all-too-happy to screech "misinformation!" "conspiracy theorist!". More often than not, it is an issue of the reasoning around facts fairly uncontroversial and neutral facts, and the language used, rather than any false underlying statistics or factoid.

We're all prone to it, including me, and you. I would point others to your mega back-and-fro with another user (begins with T) on a recent tread about mandatory vaccination.

But the biggest blind spot of those criticizing misinformation online is that so many people forget that misinformation, as it it properly defined, cuts both ways. Yes the most prominent examples may come from easily verifiable junk - but that is no excuse to conveniently abuse that term, misinformation, to actually refer to "anything that is novel to me", "an interpretation that I think is silly" or simply, as you imply, any view that you judge to be based on "misinformation".

Misinformation from reputable press outlets and those in positions of power are huge part of the problem.  But to you, misinformation can only ever come 'in support of' those with anything negative to say about the status quo in any way. Knee-jerk reaction: "misinformation".

 

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

“context” ?  clear murderous statement was made then reinforced. if he’s a comedian he’s not funny.

and completely and stupidly on the wrong side of the argument…….

couldnt care less about intent or deeper meaning or “sarcasm”. seriously ? 

give that post a trophy ? arent you then “part of the problem” ? 

[Jeffr2]

36 minutes ago, Atlantis said:

I think I know the post you are referring to thank you for reminding me to give him a trophy emoticon right now; his underappreciated sarcasm was only spoiled by his explanation a short while after.

WhiteBuffalo, its a little ironic how you are almost deliberately misconstruing (I'm going to be kind and presume you're not that dumb) mockery and contempt for pro-mandate folk when the context was all too clear to see. Misinformation cuts both ways, and you may be a bigger part of the problem than you realize.
 

Misinformation right now is only cutting one way. Unless you've fallen for the Misinformation.

 

If a member was banned, it was for a good reason. Sad you don't understand that. And that's our current problem.

[Jeffr2]

34 minutes ago, sucit said:

Exactly. This is exactly what big pharma and governments want you to say. And you think you are fighting the good fight against misinformation lol

 

The true information is being suppressed. What people fail to realize is most people against the vaccine are simply stating facts: we don’t know what will happen with that yet, it’s very experimental, there has never been a vaccine like it rolled out this fast. 
 

Those are facts. And tomorrow everything could change, and all those who got vaxxed could be at a disadvantage somehow. Maybe not likely but you’re not getting the point if you don’t see what I Amy saying. 

It's NOT experimental. Saying that is a violation of forum rules AND the current laws in Thailand.

 

What's very likely, and is happening now, is that with no vaccine, your chances of dying are immensely greater than if you got the jabs. No speculation there. Just the facts. In real time.

[GrandPapillon]

On 10/2/2021 at 5:32 AM, Chomper Higgot said:

This explains why misinformation posts are repeated almost verbatim by numerous individuals and why those individuals don't actually understand the research/report/data they are basing 'their all too familiar arguments' upon.

I am assuming you are including yourself in this little tirade, because like everything in Science, there is no one truth, and the one you choose to believe is not necessarily the one closer to a version of the truth

[Atlantis]

30 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

“context” ?  clear murderous statement was made then reinforced. if he’s a comedian he’s not funny.

and completely and stupidly on the wrong side of the argument…….

couldnt care less about intent or deeper meaning or “sarcasm”. seriously ? 

give that post a trophy ? arent you then “part of the problem” ? 

Listen, it is not my intention to trigger/ troll you, and so don't take my following comment as an attempt to rub salt in the wound:

The very thread was about forced vaccinations. Mandates, coercion, force, okay? Besides the 30-or so pages of back-and-forth on this topic was clearly in response to others who had said people who don't want the vaccines should be forced to get them. Which IMO, is absurd, for so so many reasons.
 

Take your faux outrage home with you. You are not going to distract from the painfully embarrassing fact that those who shout "misinformation!" the loudest are often the one's who have a double-standard for themselves.

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

The anti-vax do raise valid questions, and shutting down that discussion is actually giving weight to their thoughts, while discussing with them could educate their fears and concern,

 

nobody want to be vaccinated, but between stupid lockdowns that do not work, and vaccination, the choice is very clear, even if the anti-vax theory is true, we have to take that risk

[Atlantis]

5 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

I am assuming you are including yourself in this little tirade, because like everything in Science, there is no one truth, and the one you choose to believe is not necessarily the one closer to a version of the truth

Hi GrandPapillon, I think I get your general philosophical point but you can bet 1000 Baht many people on this forum will take the opportunity to jump on the generality of your statement with the worst of intentions.

Let's see how they react though...

[shdmn]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

The anti-vax do raise valid questions, and shutting down that discussion is actually giving weight to their thoughts, while discussing with them could educate their fears and concern,

 

In your opinion. 

 

Quote

nobody want to be vaccinated, but between stupid lockdowns that do not work, and vaccination, the choice is very clear, even if the anti-vax theory is true, we have to take that risk

It's not!

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, Atlantis said:

Hi GrandPapillon, I think I get your general philosophical point but you can bet 1000 Baht many people on this forum will take the opportunity to jump on the generality of your statement with the worst of intentions.

Let's see how they react though...

not everybody is gifted with intelligence, yet we have to suffer their "opinions:" ????

 

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, shdmn said:

In your opinion. 

 

It's not!

but that's the thing, we don't really know. We can't assume that our version of the truth is "true"

 

anti-vax do raise valid questions regarding the safety of vaccine, it happened before, back in the early 90s with Hepatitis vaccine, you probably weren't born then ????

 

[Atlantis]

32 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

The anti-vax do raise valid questions, and shutting down that discussion is actually giving weight to their thoughts, while discussing with them could educate their fears and concern,

 

nobody want to be vaccinated, but between stupid lockdowns that do not work, and vaccination, the choice is very clear, even if the anti-vax theory is true, we have to take that risk

I don't even like to use "anti-vax" anymore. Not on here anyway. On forums like these, that term is bandied around so casually that it's almost lost its meaning. And the sad thing is, this abuse has so blatantly been perpetrated for the sake of their egos and to cover-up their own poor argumentation, and even to get cheap, ignorant "likes".

An infamous one that comes to mind was the thread headlined  84 or (86%) of deaths being among the vaccinated that turns out to be a near useless statistic after a few seconds of reading.

Edited October 3, 2021 by Atlantis
Double-type

[shdmn]

7 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

but that's the thing, we don't really know. We can't assume that our version of the truth is "true"

 

anti-vax do raise valid questions regarding the safety of vaccine, it happened before, back in the early 90s with Hepatitis vaccine, you probably weren't born then ????

 

Again, in your opinion.  Scientists know.  I know.   Instead of "we" you should be saying "I don't really know".

 

Anyways, looks to me like you are just concern trolling at this point so I won't waste my time respond again to your anti-vaxx nonsense.  I certainly have no problem saying that word.

Edited October 3, 2021 by shdmn