Brazil's tragic ivermectin frenzy is a warning to the US, experts say

[Jeffr2]

31 minutes ago, Saanim said:

^Will you tell to Oxford University?

 

Leaving aside the discussion about credibility of the 121 studies and their 77 piers, some unbiased thinkers may get a second thought: 

Why a medicine - honoured by Nobel prize, produced by a renowned pharma company over 30 years, approved by FDA for other diseases - should be so harmful for Covid-19 treatment when no adverse effects and deaths are known at the millions using it mainly in India and Bangladesh (and other countries too) for other diseases?  

 

So, the unbiased thinker may ask: if it does not help, it does not kill either, does it? So why such a strong opposition?   

Give it a rest. At least your links to that dodgy site have been removed.

 

Why the strong support for a drug that's unproven? Falling for the fake news websites?

[Saanim]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Oddly enough, afterwards it was found that excess mortality in Uttar pradesh had jumped by 110%. Hmmmm....

Hmmmm? Where did you read that? I have tried search for that, finding just: "Covid-free" or at least "31 (33) districts free".  

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

Hmmmm? Where did you read that? I have tried search for that, finding just: "Covid-free" or at least "31 (33) districts free".  

Right. And Putin legally won his last election.

 

Singapore has an extremely high vaccination rate, fantastic testing and tracking, and still can't get rid of the virus.

 

India's government is telling a porkie.

[DavisH]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:18 PM, Saanim said:

As opposed to results from Indian state Uttar Pradesh with 200+ mil., now practically zero Covid-19. 

I would bet 85%+ are seropositive already. Look at how fast cases surged then plunged - a significant proportion of the Indian polulation already have antibodies. 

[Jeffr2]

29 minutes ago, DavisH said:

I would bet 85%+ are seropositive already. Look at how fast cases surged then plunged - a significant proportion of the Indian polulation already have antibodies. 

But they can still get covid. And India has massively under counted deaths and cases .

 

https://www.thehindu.com/data/excess-deaths-during-the-pandemic-in-india-was-58-times-the-official-covid-19-death-toll/article36405310.ece

[Saanim]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

excess mortality in Uttar pradesh had jumped by 110%. Hmmmm....

8 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.thehindu.com/data/excess-deaths-during-the-pandemic-in-india-was-58-times-the-official-covid-19-death-toll/article36405310.ece

Nothing about Uttar Pradesh..

 

 

12 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

dodgy site have been removed.

Dodgy site? Dodgy because listing 121 scientific studies, only 77 of them peer reviewed? Will we burn the studies and some more books either?

 

And the post of horse medicine no need to remove?   And such arguments as "flat earth"?

 

Such debate is senseless, why not to lock it down?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neeranam]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:00 AM, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

dont need any covid data from s..thole countries.nor any more ivermectin publicity.

ivermectin completely discredited for anti-covid use by multiple major institutes in the west.

people taking this drug are oblivious to reason.

Why are you against Invermectin? There are lots of studies out there. 

 

I took it before I got a vaccine and keep a supply for when I get Covid. 

[bendejo]

Hey, a new movie of Dune will be out in a few days.  I hear that the spice in that story cures Covid.

 

 

[bendejo]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:11 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Don't post misinformation. Brazil is far from the most vaccinated in the world. And many of the jabs were Chinese. Hardly effective.

 

Stunning anyone would support a nutter like him.

It's been really weird.  Certain world leaders faced with increasing deaths from Covid repeatedly declaring a litany of disparate excuses: it's a hoax, it's a flu, take [name of unimpressive pharmaceutical here], alien DNA in the vaccine, and so on.  The only word to describe it is macabre. 

I've been trying to figure what these guys (and gals, like certain US state governors) have to gain from more deaths.  I suspect the force propelling this is a certain man in the US that appears to be the architect of the new world fascist movement.  No, not the orange guy, it's the one he listens to, I won't mention his name (hint: he wears three shirts at a time).

 

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, bendejo said:

It's been really weird.  Certain world leaders faced with increasing deaths from Covid repeatedly declaring a litany of disparate excuses: it's a hoax, it's a flu, take [name of unimpressive pharmaceutical here], alien DNA in the vaccine, and so on.  The only word to describe it is macabre. 

I've been trying to figure what these guys (and gals, like certain US state governors) have to gain from more deaths.  I suspect the force propelling this is a certain man in the US that appears to be the architect of the new world fascist movement.  No, not the orange guy, it's the one he listens to, I won't mention his name (hint: he wears three shirts at a time).

 

 

 

 

No idea whom you are talking about. But the reason they deny this pandemic is all for political gain. Many have fallen for the lies. Especially so called conservatives. They are pandering to this base. Stunning as it seems, a vast majority of republicans believe Trump won the election! Boggles my mind how supposedly intelligent people could fall for that.

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Why are you against Invermectin? There are lots of studies out there. 

 

I took it before I got a vaccine and keep a supply for when I get Covid. 

You should share your good news with Allan West

 

Allen West, Unvaccinated Texas Governor Candidate, Takes Ivermectin After Wife Gets COVID

"Allen West, the former GOP congressman and chairman of the Texas Republican Party who is challenging Governor Greg Abbott in the Texas gubernatorial race, is taking Ivermectin after his wife tested positive for COVID-19.

According to a thread on his Twitter account Saturday, West is experiencing "a low grade fever and light body aches." He has canceled in-person events out of concern for public safety "until receiving an all-clear indication."

https://www.newsweek.com/allen-west-unvaccinated-texas-governor-candidate-takes-ivermectin-after-wife-gets-covid-1637310

 

Texas gubernatorial candidate Allen West says he has coronavirus-related pneumonia

Texas Republican gubernatorial candidate Allen West announced Saturday night that he has pneumonia related to a COVID-19 infection. 

The former Florida representative and lieutenant colonel announced on Twitter that there was "concern" about his oxygen saturation levels, which are at 89 percent. 

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/576095-texas-gubernatorial-candidate-allen-west-says-he-has-coronavirus-related

 

 

[Danderman123]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:18 PM, Saanim said:

As opposed to results from Indian state Uttar Pradesh with 200+ mil., now practically zero Covid-19. 

That data has been discredited.

[Danderman123]

On 10/10/2021 at 8:54 AM, Neeranam said:

Why are you against Invermectin? There are lots of studies out there. 

 

I took it before I got a vaccine and keep a supply for when I get Covid. 

Many of the positive Ivermectin studies have proven to be fraudulent or filled with errors. You are not keeping up with current events.

[Danderman123]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:38 PM, Saanim said:

^Will you tell to Oxford University?

 

Leaving aside the discussion about credibility of the 121 studies and their 77 piers, some unbiased thinkers may get a second thought: 

Why a medicine - honoured by Nobel prize, produced by a renowned pharma company over 30 years, approved by FDA for other diseases - should be so harmful for Covid-19 treatment when no adverse effects and deaths are known at the millions using it mainly in India and Bangladesh (and other countries too) for other diseases?  

 

So, the unbiased thinker may ask: if it does not help, it does not kill either, does it? So why such a strong opposition?   

And yet, there are many recent cases of Ivermectin poisoning in the US, while the drug has no benefit against Covid.

[Saanim]

38 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

And yet, there are many recent cases of Ivermectin poisoning in the US, while the drug has no benefit against Covid.

You surely have some links that justify your statements (3x better?) Otherwise it's in the same category of dehonestation as few cases highly publicised, however, always after debunking retracted (in silence with fine print or not at all by some).

 

One of such lie recently disseminated - and later retracted - by MSM, incl. Rolling Stones, Independent,  Newsweek, The Guardian, about a case in Kentucky Sequoyah hospital. 

 

Anybody is free to search for himself to see where is the truth.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

You surely have some links that justify your statements (3x better?) Otherwise it's in the same category of dehonestation as few cases highly publicised, however, always after debunking retracted (in silence with fine print or not at all by some).

 

One of such lie recently disseminated - and later retracted - by MSM, incl. Rolling Stones, Independent,  Newsweek, The Guardian, about a case in Kentucky Sequoyah hospital. 

 

Anybody is free to search for himself to see where is the truth.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/09/23/two-people-died-ivermectin-poisoning-new-mexico/5830791001/
 

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/five-oregonians-hospitalized-with-ivermectin-poisoning.html

https://kslnewsradio.com/1955984/utah-ivermectin-poisoning/

 

 

That took 2 minutes on Google.

 

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/09/23/two-people-died-ivermectin-poisoning-new-mexico/5830791001/
 

https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/09/five-oregonians-hospitalized-with-ivermectin-poisoning.html

https://kslnewsradio.com/1955984/utah-ivermectin-poisoning/

 

 

That took 2 minutes on Google.

 

I 

 

13 minutes ago, Saanim said:

Anybody is free to search for himself to see where is the truth.

And clearly free not to. 

Apparently Saanim was otherwise engaged.

Edited October 11, 2021 by placeholder

[Saanim]

The links above are the exact examples of deceptions, without any scientific base. 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

The links above are the exact examples of deceptions, without any scientific base. 

 

 

What do you mean by "scientific base" These are reports from govt health officials. Are you claiming that these authorities are lying?

Alleging Fake News. The last resort of the true believer..

[Bkk Brian]

The "staggering scale of the fraud" of Ivermectin research for Covid, on top of its serious flaws. @GidMK reviews the nil effect of this drug after deleting fraudulent trials.

 

"a number of very high-profile studies were revealed to be potentially or definitely faked. However, there remained hope, because there was one trial in the bunch that had enormously positive results, and this skewed the scientific appraisal to favour ivermectin immensely.

Unfortunately, it turns out that this study was almost certainly not conducted as described in the published paper. Removing this trial from the literature entirely overturns any benefit for ivermectin and makes it quite likely that the drug is useless for Covid-19 after all."

 

https://gidmk.medium.com/is-ivermectin-for-covid-19-based-on-fraudulent-research-part-5-fe41044dab13

 

[Jeffr2]

1 hour ago, Saanim said:

The links above are the exact examples of deceptions, without any scientific base. 

Give it up and stop trolling. Please.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

The "staggering scale of the fraud" of Ivermectin research for Covid, on top of its serious flaws. @GidMK reviews the nil effect of this drug after deleting fraudulent trials.

 

"a number of very high-profile studies were revealed to be potentially or definitely faked. However, there remained hope, because there was one trial in the bunch that had enormously positive results, and this skewed the scientific appraisal to favour ivermectin immensely.

Unfortunately, it turns out that this study was almost certainly not conducted as described in the published paper. Removing this trial from the literature entirely overturns any benefit for ivermectin and makes it quite likely that the drug is useless for Covid-19 after all."

 

https://gidmk.medium.com/is-ivermectin-for-covid-19-based-on-fraudulent-research-part-5-fe41044dab13

 

Actually there were 2 major studies that were judged to be fraudulent. One from Egypt and the other from Argentina. And the experience of Uttar Pradesh in allegedly suppressing covid mortality via Ivermectin is also clearly nonsense. As I've cited elsewhere, mortality rates jumped 110% during the pandemic in that Indian state. I guess that's inexplicable only if you're a true believer in Ivermectin.

Edited October 11, 2021 by placeholder

[Danderman123]

2 hours ago, Saanim said:

The links above are the exact examples of deceptions, without any scientific base. 

Okay, here is the money quote from the New Mexico story:

 

"

In an update on COVID-19 in the state on Wednesday, acting state Health Secretary Dr. David Scrase said two unnamed people in the state died from ivermectin poisoning, one of which was already dealing with a severe case of COVID-19. 

"It's a serious issue. We need to watch it," Scrase said."

 

So, the state health agency notes the deaths from Ivermectin poisoning. You claim they are either wrong, or misquoted. 

 

The simplest explanation is that you no longer believe in facts, or reality, and prefer to disregard facts that do not fit into your world view. You can do that if you want, but don't expect many others to pay any attention to you. 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Okay, here is the money quote from the New Mexico story:

 

"

In an update on COVID-19 in the state on Wednesday, acting state Health Secretary Dr. David Scrase said two unnamed people in the state died from ivermectin poisoning, one of which was already dealing with a severe case of COVID-19. 

"It's a serious issue. We need to watch it," Scrase said."

 

So, the state health agency notes the deaths from Ivermectin poisoning. You claim they are either wrong, or misquoted. 

 

The simplest explanation is that you no longer believe in facts, or reality, and prefer to disregard facts that do not fit into your world view. You can do that if you want, but don't expect many others to pay any attention to you. 

When all else fails for these denialist. they cry Fake News!

[Danderman123]

Just now, placeholder said:

When all else fails for these denialist. they cry Fake News!

The takeaway is that the Ivermectin proponents are like a religious cult, they don't need proof it works, they have Belief. 

 

The test is asking them what it would take for them to give up on Ivermectin. You won't get a straight answer. 

[Neeranam]

8 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Many of the positive Ivermectin studies have proven to be fraudulent or filled with errors. You are not keeping up with current events.

Really, I would love to see them. 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The takeaway is that the Ivermectin proponents are like a religious cult, they don't need proof it works, they have Belief. 

Why the need to polarize into for and against?

 

Some take Invermectin as they have heard from experts that it can save death from Covid.  Nothing cultish about that! 

[Neeranam]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Okay, here is the money quote from the New Mexico story:

 

"

In an update on COVID-19 in the state on Wednesday, acting state Health Secretary Dr. David Scrase said two unnamed people in the state died from ivermectin poisoning, one of which was already dealing with a severe case of COVID-19. 

"It's a serious issue. We need to watch it," Scrase said."

 

So, the state health agency notes the deaths from Ivermectin poisoning. You claim they are either wrong, or misquoted. 

 

The simplest explanation is that you no longer believe in facts, or reality, and prefer to disregard facts that do not fit into your world view. You can do that if you want, but don't expect many others to pay any attention to you. 

People die all the time from aspirin overdose, does that mean people should stop taking it? Come on. 

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why the need to polarize into for and against?

 

Some take Invermectin as they have heard from experts that it can save death from Covid.  Nothing cultish about that! 

It turns out time and again that these "experts" are no such thing. They have consistently misrepresented research. And the harm is that these believers in the ivermectin protocol eole end up in ICUs taking beds away from others. Beds that overwhelmingly likely would be available if they had been vaccinated. As for not being "Cultish" given the other falsehoods that these Ivermectin subscribe to, "cultish" is not an inapt word to describe their beliefs. Take this guy for instance

 

Texas Republican Allen West, While Hospitalized for Covid, Doubles Down on Anti-Vaxx Rhetoric

Despite refusing to get the vaccine, the account said West was “already taking Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin protocols,” two drugs that are unproven against the virus, both of which the FDA has cautioned people not to use as Covid treatments.

According to the tweets, West was “experiencing a low-grade fever and light body aches” on Saturday and later tweeted that he had pneumonia caused by Covid but said it was “not serious.”

“I am probably going to be admitted to the hospital,” he said after announcing both he and his wife received experimental monoclonal antibody infusion therapy.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/allen-west-covid-anti-vaxx-rhetoric-1239980/

[Saanim]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

And the experience of Uttar Pradesh in allegedly suppressing covid mortality via Ivermectin is also clearly nonsense. As I've cited elsewhere, mortality rates jumped 110% during the pandemic in that Indian state. I guess that's inexplicable only if you're a true believer in Ivermectin.

I am no true believer in anything, just amazed by the strong statements debunking studies of a medicine administered in billions over 30 years using some newspaper stories of 2 - 3 cases. (still looking for the link of the 110% jump in UP...).  Did the patients die because of IVM? Or just by Covid or by another cause as it is at the almost  5 M deaths, never by any wrong treatment or medicine? Perhaps the studies were debunked by a medical student as reported by The Guardian 2 months ago? And obviously, the doctors at Oxford Uni do not read The G. , so they just started with a large scale research inviting anybody for the trial, as it can be found on their web, surely no "dodgy" one. https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial   

 

Were the 121 studies found fraudulent by FDA that has been so happy with it over 30 years?  However, what was fraudulent were few cases proven by court at Pfizer, one of them some 10 years ago having to pay a record fine over $2B.  But nobody is now concerned when Pfizer is about to come up with a new Covid-19 pill.  Similarly as Merck with their new pill "Molnupiravir".  Hopefully, the new pills will have nothing in common with the deadly IVM (also by Merck) and it will be well proven within a short time.  The problem will be only the price, unlike as at IVM.