Gated community abandoned homes - who's reponsible?

[smutcakes]

23 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I imagine the property will be sold off at cheap price. How do you know the mortgage has been defaulted? My friend bought his house for cash, on a gated community, but has never lived there, has neglected it, left it deserted but hasn't defaulted on mortgage payments. Banks have departments especially for selling off such properties. They are keen to get rid of them. In my condo block the deserted condos were sold via blind auction via the local tax office I believe. People had bought for cash but had not paid taxes and maintenance fees etc.

No they were not.

[Harveyboy]

On 10/5/2021 at 10:44 PM, Denim said:

Best thing is to speak to the estate management and try to reach a sensible solution between the estate and the bank..

 

What would be desirable is the cheapest solution that keeps the abandoned property free of jungle and reasonably presentable.

 

Once cleared of unwanted growth ( biggest expense) growth could be controlled by monthly treatment with weed killer, cheap quick and effective.

 

I concur with the above post. It might be an eyesore to you but it will be invisible to the locals.

Thais tend to focus on beautiful things not ugly things. It's as if they don't realize an ugly background detracts from a beautiful focal point.

 

Hence , drive around any modern moobahn and you will often see flowering plants displayed on a pile of old building bricks or bald tyres.

 

They focus on the flower not what its sitting on.

 

 

 

true 

[unblocktheplanet]

Not surprised so many of us have the same story. Our mooban is >30 years old, maybe 150 dwellings. Lots of empty houses but maintained with rent or sale sign. There are, however, a couple of big ghost-houses, unsightly & jungly.

[Hamus Yaigh]

6 hours ago, bbko said:

Are we talking about Pattaya Land & House? Cause if yes, I've seen the house mentioned in the OP, it's an overgrown jungle eyesore. 

No the o/p refers to a L&H project in Bangkok. I am sure the situation happens everywhere as attested by the responses here thanks. It's quite a large gated community of over 800 homes, some only finished this year, some going for 30mTHB with multiple luxury cars in driveways down to the cheapest 6mTHB units. Out of 800 perhaps only 4 or 5 have been left in this abandoned state and the one I refer to is the only one I am aware of that the bank has taken back and put notice on the gate. I saw the house when it was brand new for sale and it cost 7.6mB about 10 years ago.

 

There's quite a lot of cash in the kitty from all these home annual maintenance fees, so I expect at the next meeting (whenever that is) the subject of abandonment/bank ownership will be raised. It's all in Thai and I am not an owner here so won't be involved directly. It would seem easy for an otherwise well funded/maintained gated community to pressure the bank and tidy up their jungle spots on abandoned homes I would have hoped. This eyesore also overlooks a central public park area so should be well noticed.

 

Though the community maintenance fees are not related to my o/p and abandoned homes, they do have a reasonable system where each home has a community sign attached to each front gate post each year in a new color to let everyone know inc the garbage collectors and public gardeners if fees are paid. I have not noticed anyone who hasn't paid their fees.

[bbabythai]

On 10/6/2021 at 1:02 AM, Swiss1960 said:

I checked this with my lawyer, as I have a house in my neighborhood which is not abandoned, but occupied by Thai relatives of the English owner and the garden is maintained maybe once every 9 months

You are exactly the reason why I would NEVER buy in a gated community. You think you are living in Switzerland with your self entitled attitude. This is Thailand NOT switzerland...

[bbabythai]

4 hours ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Not surprised so many of us have the same story. Our mooban is >30 years old, maybe 150 dwellings. Lots of empty houses but maintained with rent or sale sign. There are, however, a couple of big ghost-houses, unsightly & jungly.

Ive seen a few of these sorts of places in cities in Isan. Once you buy a house in a gated community its hard to sell. Better off to rent

[bbabythai]

On 10/5/2021 at 9:48 PM, Hamus Yaigh said:

The immediate neighbors will be at higher risk

Higher risk of what? Overgrown grass and trees. This thread is a non issue. 

 

I tried living in a gated community once. Full of middle class self entitled thais and westerners. Never again

[MrJ2U]

The house is wholly owned by the bank and it probably doesn't care less if the house is unkunkempt.

 

I doubt there even paying the monthly maintenance fees.

 

Its only purpose is to recoupe it's losses

 

You could contact the bank and offer to tidy up the outside areas.  But I don't think you'll get very far.

 

Good luck.

 

I imagine its getting worse each passing month.

[newnative]

8 minutes ago, bbabythai said:

Ive seen a few of these sorts of places in cities in Isan. Once you buy a house in a gated community its hard to sell. Better off to rent

   Maybe for Issan but not necessarily Pattaya.  Houses in nice gated communities in Pattaya are maintaining their values and houses are finding buyers.  Two homes in my small project of 38 homes sold recently for good prices after being on the market for short periods.   

[Swiss1960]

7 hours ago, bbabythai said:

You are exactly the reason why I would NEVER buy in a gated community. You think you are living in Switzerland with your self entitled attitude. This is Thailand NOT switzerland...

This is not about a country, but about being a responsible neighbor. By allowing trash, rodents and termites in their garden, they endangered all the homes around. If you live in the boonies and far away from other houses, then up to you how you want to live. But if you invest in a gated community, there are written rules about various things that you have to obey to. If you break the rules, you will have the consequences coming.

 

Imagine you live in an apartment... your neighbor smokes and grills on his balcony and the smoke comes into your apartment. Your neighbor has mold in his apartment and it starts to creep through the wall into your apartment. How fast would you call the juristic committee for help, if your personal talks did lead nowhere? 

[Sqoop]

19 hours ago, aussieinphuket said:

we have exactly a problem

like this occurring now in our small development where an angry old english guy has decided he won’t pay his CAM fees anymore ie Common Area Management fees and is in arrears around 500,000 so we have stopped maintaining garden outside his villa which he does now and also stopped garbage collection is about all we can do. he paid the previous 15 years to the management company but past 2 years ceased payment all the other owners are paying fortunately and maintaining development as many live here and some are rented out. 

 

we have handed everything over to

our lawyers and they have filed case in court for full amount plus standard interest 7 pct. they are confident after prior discussions with other legal people in phuket the judge will rule in our favour obviously it’s cost our group a reasonable amount to do this but we are all happy to go ahead.

 

a meeting between our lawyers and his lawyers ended up with his lawyer suggesting he pays or makes some offer to us and to continue paying as they explained to him their fees are going to be quite high also here created a precedence by paying previously under the purchase agreement CAM fees to the developer then when we changed to a management company. 

 

in the meantime he lives he we see him in restuarant and bars drinking most evenings.

 

he has restricted access to the development as we put in a security barrier during daytimes and he has no security pass or card to enter so he needs to get off his motor bike and go to push a button to open security access and the guard in the evenings will not open the barrier for him.

 

in the meantime he tries to sell his villa but it just look strange to real estate agents or prospective buyers about his access.

 

court hearing continuing now.

 

 

 

Is that a typo ? 500k over two years ? The fees per month seem high .. are you on the committee? 

[steven100]

19 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Despite the legality of the situation, my advice would be for yourself and your neighbours to cut the grass and do minimal maintenance to (a) keep it safe, and (b) stop your own properties from becoming devalued by association.

bad advice .....   if someone were to get injured or something breaks while your trespassing the bank could legally sue you and you could end up in jail. 

good advice .... stay away.

[smutcakes]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:54 AM, aussieinphuket said:

we have exactly a problem

like this occurring now in our small development where an angry old english guy has decided he won’t pay his CAM fees anymore ie Common Area Management fees and is in arrears around 500,000 so we have stopped maintaining garden outside his villa which he does now and also stopped garbage collection is about all we can do. he paid the previous 15 years to the management company but past 2 years ceased payment all the other owners are paying fortunately and maintaining development as many live here and some are rented out. 

 

we have handed everything over to

our lawyers and they have filed case in court for full amount plus standard interest 7 pct. they are confident after prior discussions with other legal people in phuket the judge will rule in our favour obviously it’s cost our group a reasonable amount to do this but we are all happy to go ahead.

 

a meeting between our lawyers and his lawyers ended up with his lawyer suggesting he pays or makes some offer to us and to continue paying as they explained to him their fees are going to be quite high also here created a precedence by paying previously under the purchase agreement CAM fees to the developer then when we changed to a management company. 

 

in the meantime he lives he we see him in restuarant and bars drinking most evenings.

 

he has restricted access to the development as we put in a security barrier during daytimes and he has no security pass or card to enter so he needs to get off his motor bike and go to push a button to open security access and the guard in the evenings will not open the barrier for him.

 

in the meantime he tries to sell his villa but it just look strange to real estate agents or prospective buyers about his access.

 

court hearing continuing now.

 

 

 

Presumably he has a reason he has decided to stopped paying, he is aggrieved at something or feels the property is not being maintained properly?

[Longwood50]

Not sure if the bylaws of this community or any other cover abandoned property. I live in a gated community and have exactly the same situation with abandoned properties and its bylaws do not address attending to abandoned homes.  In the USA it is typically a provision of a homeowner association that to protect the value of the other homeowners that the association maintains the right to attend to the property and assess costs that are liens against the home.  The governmental units will also maintain things like broken windows, abandoned cars, unkept lawns and assess a tax lien against the property and eventually foreclose on it. 

 I also don't know if a provision could be added to the existing bylaws but I see no reason why it could not. 

If the bylaws contained a provision that required each Chanote owner to maintain the property for the common good and if not maintained the community would undertake needed maintenance and repair but assess the Chanote for its cost just like unpaid community fees.   If it is a bank owned property I would invoice them for the services if they chose not to maintain their property.   I would 'think" that the juristic entity would have some rights to legally press the bank for reimbursement of services provided by the Juristic Entity. 

Certainly after I believe after 10 years a property openly maintained by another such as a juristic entity could have its ownership taken by the entity.  

That of course does not good if the value of the home is less than the outstanding mortgage to the bank.  

Edited October 8, 2021 by Longwood50

[bbko]

7 hours ago, steven100 said:

bad advice .....   if someone were to get injured or something breaks while your trespassing the bank could legally sue you and you could end up in jail. 

good advice .... stay away.

Then if by the bank's neglect, the place becomes a public health hazard with mice, rats, snakes, insects, mold, overgrown trees, etc. can't the neighbors sue?  They can say they have to spend more money to keep the hazards away. 

[Hamus Yaigh]

5 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

If it is a bank owned property I would invoice them for the services if they chose not to maintain their property.   I would 'think" that the juristic entity would have some rights to legally press the bank for reimbursement of services provided by the Juristic Entity

Yes, I am sure this is the only way in the case I mention. Will see what happens and update this thread, probably in a year or two to come!

[steven100]

3 hours ago, bbko said:

Then if by the bank's neglect, the place becomes a public health hazard with mice, rats, snakes, insects, mold, overgrown trees, etc. can't the neighbors sue?  They can say they have to spend more money to keep the hazards away. 

go see a lawyer and he will laugh at you .....   TIT,  are you really going to try and sue the bank for neglect of the property .....  ??   LOL      come on, get real.    Sorry but the sad fact is you can't do much.

[Hamus Yaigh]

One of the neighbors who has a few baht spare plus some, already taken it into his own hands had got the abandoned place cleaned out by gardeners at his own expense. They were saying snakes already have moved into long grass, and worrying his dogs. He's looking for some cooperation from other neighbors to fell the trees next that will become hazards in time to come from falling into homes or bringing down the roadside overhead power lines....tbc

[fredscats]

Its all over the place,even if owned,paid for,still problem     I take sharp shovel and hack at weeds next door......forest on doorstep       imagine the up and coming condos now going this way  tons of them, tons of the stuff abandoned ,cannot sell  forget it   slum city here we come