How on earth does Solana crypto coin have a 70bn valuation?

[mjnaus]

32 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

and no shortage of suckers to fall into the traps of "grand profiteering" ????

There there, oldtimer. Have another Werther's. You just let them young folk worry about the "grand profiteering" ????

[phetphet]

3 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Few months. Think like since mid-July.

 

I started being all dubious about it, "meh bitcoin must be a ponzi scheme", so I had a worthless GTX 1060 laying around on my desk, popped it back in on my motherboard, fired up NiceHash and I was like "nah? THAT easy? wait what? I just made 25 euros in a few days?", opened up a coinbase account, added my bank account and got a SEPA payment within minutes, the 25 euros were on my bank account.

 

When I realized the potential; I almost instantly upgraded to 4x 3060 Ti, projected income in about 10 days left for this month is about 480 euros. I can't wait.

 

But again I'm the skeptical kind, I'll believe it when I'll see it in my main account, better yet, I'll believe it when I'll have it withdrawn from the ATM with the bills in my paw, better yet, I'll believe it when I'll have pizzas slice bought with those ETH in my mouth, then yeah that'll feel real.

 

Until then, it's all... virtually non existent to me.

 

That's my approach to cryptocurrencies.

But how much did your total mining rig cost?

[NanaSomchai]

1 hour ago, Pravda said:

 

If you are not lying which is of course impossible to prove you'd have to have invested several million dollars for these returns 

 

His investment was 5-6k for 4 video cards.

Much less than that actually. I buy pre-builds from HP and Dell, rip the cards apart and resell the complete PC with either no GPUs or <deleted> AMD GPUs or stuff like GTX 1050, people buy.

[NanaSomchai]

44 minutes ago, phetphet said:

But how much did your total mining rig cost?

Not much actually. I buy pre-builds from HP and Dell, rip the cards apart and resell the complete PC with either no GPUs or <deleted> AMD GPUs or stuff like GTX 1050, people buy.

[GrandPapillon]

50 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

There there, oldtimer. Have another Werther's. You just let them young folk worry about the "grand profiteering" ????

ah, the insolence of ignorance ????

[mjnaus]

2 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

insolence of ignorance

You're hilarious! (and I actually mean that). Now enjoy that cracker and have a nap ???? 

[Pravda]

15 minutes ago, NanaSomchai said:

Not much actually. I buy pre-builds from HP and Dell, rip the cards apart and resell the complete PC with either no GPUs or <deleted> AMD GPUs or stuff like GTX 1050, people buy.

Do you live in Thailand?

[NanaSomchai]

3 minutes ago, Pravda said:

Do you live in Thailand?

Not at the moment. Why would that matter?

[Golden Triangle]

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

Lol

 

Is it even worth for such a pitiful amount?

 

If it's you hobby fair enough.

 

I probably make about triple that on average in stocks.

 

 

Yeah of course you do ????

[lkn]

5 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

I don't LOSE on anything, I earn 120e/week doing nothing from the way I see it (I don't even pay the utility bill, my government does it for me)

How come you get electricity for free and don’t have to pay taxes on profits?

 

Did you btw check how much electricity you are actually using? Right now, most of Europe is concerned about rising energy prices, and of course there is also the environment, we just had this big climate conference.

[Lemsta69]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

ah, the insolence of ignorance ????

Billions, soon to be triilions, of dollars are flooding into crypto. wall street is on board, big companies are on board or about too get on board, countries are jumping in too. the richest man in the world invested $1.5bn of Tesla capital into BTC. miners are making massive infrastructure investments in places like Texas. Texas governor is on board with this. NYC has a crypto-friendly mayor now etc etc etc

 

crypto is a tsunami, ignore it at your peril. you should have already bought BTC last year when it was sub-$10k but it's not too late*

 

*not a financial advice, DYOR

[lkn]

4 hours ago, 2009 said:

Only thing is: the stock I was holding (before I got into crypto) has done over 1000% in the last 5 years with far far less risk, not to mention without the extreme volatility (boom n bust nature of crypto).

This is not representative of the stock market, and I do not know how you calculate risk, but no stocks with low risk go up 1,000% in 5 years.

 

Now, I would never touch non-productive assets as an investment, and certainly not unregulated non-productive assets that have no final consumers/buyers, and which are primarily priced in unbacked “dollar tokens”, but fair is fair, crypto for most time frames have performed better than the stock market.

 

But Bernie Madoff also outperformed the stock market for a decade or so, of course the money were not actually there, and that became obvious when people wanted to withdraw their money during the 2008 financial crisis, and he didn’t have enough money to satisfy all the requests.

 

With crypto, the money is also not there. Proponents have said it is the same for real estate or stocks, even a bank, if we all want to withdraw at the same time, there is a liquidity crisis. And while there is some truth to this, these things are just not comparable, because there is underlying value, things would only go to zero if we all collectively decided to leave the planet and go somewhere else, leaving empty all the factories, houses, roads, malls, etc.

 

But 99% of the coins being traded are nothing more than a ledger entry, if all miners and exchanges turned off their servers tomorrow, life would go on as usual, a lot of people would lose paper wealth, but nothing in the real world would be impacted, because nobody is using these coins to solve problems in their daily life.

[lkn]

9 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

crypto is a tsunami, ignore it at your peril. you should have already bought BTC last year when it was sub-$10k but it's not too late*

This is all great, but tell me, what problem does Bitcoin solve? Let’s say I did buy BTC last year sub-$10k, what can I do with these coins, other than sell at a profit to another investor?

[Lemsta69]

On 11/4/2021 at 6:03 AM, sezze said:

Some people still don't get it . There is nothing in it . It is a unique "number/calculation/or however it is made" . It is basically the same as a piece of art , and the value of it is based on if people want to pay X-amount for it or not . This means , today it can be 10.000 billion and tomorrow 0.0 . Can it be a great gamble ? Sure , you can be millionaire in a minute , but you can also lose everything in a minute .

this is pure FUD. please do some more research before you post again. I recommend anything that involves an interview with Michael Saylor, he has a unique way of explaining why Bitcoin is such a game-changer. you're aware that similar concepts were mooted by the likes of Henry Ford and Buckminster Fuller, aren't you?

[lkn]

5 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I recommend anything that involves an interview with Michael Saylor

For anyone curious, I give you, the ramblings of a mad man (aka Michael Saylor), and he is not even wrong. If you read this and think “bitcoin good” then I have bad news for you: You are in a cult!

 

[Lemsta69]

12 minutes ago, lkn said:

This is all great, but tell me, what problem does Bitcoin solve? Let’s say I did buy BTC last year sub-$10k, what can I do with these coins, other than sell at a profit to another investor?

you're just here to troll and FUD mate, so I'm not going to dignify your question with an answer. oops, already did. there's people out there that are a thousand times smarter than I am. go ask them if you really want to know. like I said, start with Michael Saylor. best to watch him at 1.5x or 1.75x as he's a bit of a slow talker.

[Lemsta69]

8 minutes ago, lkn said:

For anyone curious, I give you, the ramblings of a mad man (aka Michael Saylor), and he is not even wrong. If you read this and think “bitcoin good” then I have bad news for you: You are in a cult!

 

up to you man, have fun staying poor

[sezze]

8 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

this is pure FUD. please do some more research before you post again. I recommend anything that involves an interview with Michael Saylor, he has a unique way of explaining why Bitcoin is such a game-changer. you're aware that similar concepts were mooted by the likes of Henry Ford and Buckminster Fuller, aren't you?

Oh , and what is so valuable in the 100s or 1000s of "internet coins" , besides the electricity it costs to calculate them ? What makes it any different then a elephant painting a canvas ? They are unique , there is no way another elephant can make the same painting , same like the coins have unique numbers/calculations behind it . But the value in it is in the eye of the beholder . There is nothing backing it . You can say that about all coins , and that in a way is true , but the simple fact is that there are countries/economies behind it . Is there any value in Zimbabwe $ ? If you believe "your precious coin" is worth a gazillion $ , ok good for you , if you find anybody who can give you that for it , it is worth that , otherwise it isn't worth anything . Go to a shop in the middle of Africa , and try to pay with your "internet coin " and big chance there isnt electric there , neither phone but i can pay with my paper money , im sure .

I am not afraid of it , but there is nothing in it . If tomorrow nobody buys it , then you are 100% stuck with your coins which in fact are worthless .

You do know that if a war breaks out , 1st things out are electric / internet / communication lines . I like to see where you go with your digital wallet ... Real money in cash and gold are always valuable items .

[Lemsta69]

1 minute ago, sezze said:

Oh , and what is so valuable in the 100s or 1000s of "internet coins" , besides the electricity it costs to calculate them ? What makes it any different then a elephant painting a canvas ? They are unique , there is no way another elephant can make the same painting , same like the coins have unique numbers/calculations behind it . But the value in it is in the eye of the beholder . There is nothing backing it . You can say that about all coins , and that in a way is true , but the simple fact is that there are countries/economies behind it . Is there any value in Zimbabwe $ ? If you believe "your precious coin" is worth a gazillion $ , ok good for you , if you find anybody who can give you that for it , it is worth that , otherwise it isn't worth anything . Go to a shop in the middle of Africa , and try to pay with your "internet coin " and big chance there isnt electric there , neither phone but i can pay with my paper money , im sure .

I am not afraid of it , but there is nothing in it . If tomorrow nobody buys it , then you are 100% stuck with your coins which in fact are worthless .

You do know that if a war breaks out , 1st things out are electric / internet / communication lines . I like to see where you go with your digital wallet ... Real money in cash and gold are always valuable items.

you sound a little nutty. I don't talk to crazy people ????

[Pravda]

2 hours ago, NanaSomchai said:

Not at the moment. Why would that matter?

 

Because you probably wouldn't be able to get dell computers here at good price. And the free electric is probably included with your condo fees, like with my condo I Canada.

 

I wonder if my condo management would notice.

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, sezze said:

Oh , and what is so valuable in the 100s or 1000s of "internet coins" , besides the electricity it costs to calculate them ? What makes it any different then a elephant painting a canvas ? They are unique , there is no way another elephant can make the same painting , same like the coins have unique numbers/calculations behind it . But the value in it is in the eye of the beholder . There is nothing backing it . You can say that about all coins , and that in a way is true , but the simple fact is that there are countries/economies behind it . Is there any value in Zimbabwe $ ? If you believe "your precious coin" is worth a gazillion $ , ok good for you , if you find anybody who can give you that for it , it is worth that , otherwise it isn't worth anything . Go to a shop in the middle of Africa , and try to pay with your "internet coin " and big chance there isnt electric there , neither phone but i can pay with my paper money , im sure .

I am not afraid of it , but there is nothing in it . If tomorrow nobody buys it , then you are 100% stuck with your coins which in fact are worthless .

You do know that if a war breaks out , 1st things out are electric / internet / communication lines . I like to see where you go with your digital wallet ... Real money in cash and gold are always valuable items .

Let's say you owned the Mona Lisa and you made exactly one NFT image of it and that image would remain the only one in existence. Would that be worth anything?  Or maybe a unique NFT of a Babe Ruth baseball card? And lets say you could trade that card in a game for something worthwhile in that game, like a special weapon. Would that be worth anything? Anything at all?

 

And lets say that NFT was made using the Solana blockchain. Would that make the Solana coin worth anything? Or maybe you wanted to borrow some crypto instead of taking out a loan from the bank, would that make the underlying coin worth anything?

Edited November 6, 2021 by ozimoron

[GrandPapillon]

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/06/1050430801/cryptocurrencies-bitcoin-elizabeth-warren-gary-gensler

 

A big fight is brewing over cryptocurrencies. These are some key players to watch

November 6, 20215:00 AM ET

Cryptocurrency is at a crossroads.

As its popularity explodes, the Biden administration is laying the groundwork to set rules for an industry that has surged in popularity, but has so far fallen into a regulatory netherworld.

That's sparking what's likely to be a heated debate about which agencies have the authority to regulate cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin – and what Congress' oversight responsibilities should be in a market that has grown to $2.5 trillion, or slightly less than the size of France's economy.

Currently, the expectations are that supervision will likely be spread across several regulators, including the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC).

Yet there's a divergence of views of how tough rules should be, from lawmakers who believe the U.S. should embrace what they see as a financial revolution, to watchdogs alarmed about an industry they say is rife with fraud and bad actors.

Here are some of the key players to watch as that debate takes shape.

SEC Chairman Gary Gensler
Gensler, a veteran regulator who returned to Washington, D.C., to head the SEC, is perhaps the person who will most help determine the rules on cryptocurrencies.

As head of the SEC, he is tasked with protecting investors and ensuring fair and orderly markets.

At the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, he taught a popular course called "Blockchain and Money."

Confirmed by a vote of 53-45, Gensler has said — in speeches and Congressional testimony — that cryptocurrencies and related financial products should be subject to greater regulation.

"Right now, we don't have enough investor protection crypto," Gensler told the Aspen Security Forum in August. "Frankly, at this time, it's more like the Wild West."

Crypto-savvy congressmen on both sides of the aisle say they are glad Gensler speaks their language, but lawmakers who want fewer or less-stringent rules worry Gensler and the SEC will put in place tough new rules.

Whatever he unveils, Gensler has said he would like Congress to be involved.

"We need additional congressional authorities to prevent transactions, products, and platforms from falling between regulatory cracks," he said in August."We also need more resources to protect investors in this growing and volatile sector."

CFTC Acting Chairman Rostin Behnam
Having served as a member of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission since 2017, Rostin Behnam has been nominated to be its next chairman. (He is currently doing the job in an acting capacity.)

There is a turf war among regulators, primarily between the SEC and the CFTC, about which agency should have the main authority to regulate cryptocurrencies.

During his confirmation hearing before the Senate Agriculture Committee in October, Behnam made the case that the C.F.T.C. should have a bigger role in regulation, even as he acknowledged it would "be a departure from our historical role as a derivatives regulator."

"I think it is important to have a primary cop on the beat," he told lawmakers. "And certainly the C.F.T.C. is prepared to do that if this committee so wishes."

Behnam's argument goes to the heart of another basic question that regulators are grappling with: how to define cryptocurrencies. Currently they can be considered both commodities or securities, a confusion that speaks to the current lack of regulatory clarity.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen
Historically, the Treasury Department has overseen the writing and implementation of new regulations across agencies, and when it comes to cryptocurrency, it is likely to play a similar role.

It just released a new report written by a group of regulators on "stablecoins" — a cryptocurrency that's pegged to a traditional asset like the dollar.

In the report, Treasury called on Congress to clearly determine who has authority over stablecoins. Otherwise, the Financial Stability Oversight Council, which Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen chairs, could implement new regulations, the report argued.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.)
Count Warren, the progressive senator from Massachusetts as a cryptocurrency skeptic. She has expressed her concerns about investor protection — or the lack thereof.

Although cryptocurrencies are held by millions, they have also been used by bad actors, including to demand ransomware payments in virtual money. Hackers have also stolen funds from crypto exchanges.

Warren will likely help shape regulations as a member of the Senate Banking Committee, and she believes Congress needs to do more to regulate cryptocurrencies.

"Right now, our regulators, and frankly our Congress, is an hour late and a dollar short," she told Bloomberg TV. "We need to catch up with where these cryptocurrencies are going."

Sen. Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyoming)
Then there are the strong cryptocurrency supporters, like Lummis.

Wyoming's junior senator calls herself a "HOLDler," which is crypto-speak for someone who has bought cryptocurrency and continues to hold onto it despite its extreme volatility.

Lummis is one of only a few lawmakers personally invested in cryptocurrency, which means she personally could stand to gain or lose from the regulations shaped by Congress.

After her son-in-law introduced her to crypto, Lummis bough her first Bitcoin in 2013, for $330. Today, it is worth more than $60,000, and she has bought more cryptocurrency in recent months.

Lummis, a member of the Senate Banking Committee, is in favor of "light-touch regulation," she says. "We want the innovators to innovate. We want to create a space where the United States is the leader in opportunity for the creation and use of digital assets."

Sen. Patrick Toomey (R-Pa.)

As the ranking member of the Senate Banking Committee, Sen. Patrick Toomey has invested in cryptocurrency — in Bitcoin and Ethereum. Earlier in his career, he was a currency trader.

Toomey has suggested cryptocurrency could be "as revolutionary as the internet."

Toomey, who will retire next year, has called on his colleagues and regulators "to recognize that open, public networks are here to stay," and he has emerged an outspoken voice against excessive oversight and regulation of cryptocurrencies.

Last month, after China effectively banned mining and trading Bitcoin, Toomey argued it was "a big opportunity to the U.S." to become a global leader in cryptocurrencies.

The House lawmakers
A diverse cast of lawmakers are also likely to help shape the future of regulation for cryptocurrencies.

Take Rep. Darren Soto, D-Fl., for example, who acts as the co-chair of the Congressional Blockchain Caucus.

He's spent most of his time in Congress focused on technology issues, and he says he sees a lot of possibility in cryptocurrency as an "emerging technology," although he is also worried about how bad actors use the cryptocurrency.

Or Rep. Bill Foster, D-Il. On Capitol Hill, few lawmakers have as strong a grasp on the technology underpinning cryptocurrency as Foster, who has a Ph.D. in high-energy particle physics from Harvard University.

Foster is skeptical of cryptocurrency — he has concerns about the environmental impact of Bitcoin mining, for example.

There's also Rep. Warren Davidson, R-Ohio. A member of the House Financial Services Committee, Warren Davidson started paying attention to digital payments in the mid-2000s, he says.

Davidson worries that Congress is moving too slowly to set rule for cryptocurrencies.

"Industry is basically pleading, 'Give us some regulatory clarity,'" Davidson says. "We should be able to address this, and we could, and we can do it quickly."

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, lkn said:

How come you get electricity for free and don’t have to pay taxes on profits?

 

Did you btw check how much electricity you are actually using? Right now, most of Europe is concerned about rising energy prices, and of course there is also the environment, we just had this big climate conference.

that's the thing with those silly "miners", they usually "steal" electricity from someone else to make their "rigs" profitable ????

 

they are not profitable when you include all the real costs, like in a real business you know, not some side hustle in your basement ????

 

and they need to scale like crazy to make it with a "thin" profit margin, but since the big miners are usually big criminal organizations, they don't care about costs, they need to create "money" and launder it, even if a BTC cost them 10% of their money, it's cheap to "clean" your money compared to other "laundering" ops in the real world.

 

so much for changing the world and being "different" while polluting the whole planet with wasted electricity ????

 

and of course, let's blame the banks for being the bad guys, while we steal the electricity for our little ops ???? 

 

or develop some technology to help launder criminal money ????

 

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[mjnaus]

16 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

that's the thing with those silly "miners", they usually "steal" electricity from someone else to make their "rigs" profitable ????

 

they are not profitable when you include all the real costs, like in a real business you know, not some side hustle in your basement ????

 

and they need to scale like crazy to make it with a "thin" profit margin, but since the big miners are usually big criminal organizations, they don't care about costs, they need to create "money" and launder it, even if a BTC cost them 10% of their money, it's cheap to "clean" your money compared to other "laundering" ops in the real world.

 

so much for changing the world and being "different" while polluting the whole planet with wasted electricity ????

 

and of course, let's blame the banks for being the bad guys, while we steal the electricity for our little ops ???? 

 

or develop some technology to help launder criminal money ????

 

GrandPa, why nobody has offered you a book deal yet is beyond me. 

[GrandPapillon]

20 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

GrandPa, why nobody has offered you a book deal yet is beyond me. 

are you a publisher now? ????

[advancebooking]

On 11/5/2021 at 5:19 PM, Neeranam said:

Read this. 

 

Some ignorance on this thread. 

 

https://www.newsbtc.com/news/solana/chamath-palihapitiya-invested-solana/

It doesnt change the fact that it had a catastrophic bug recently and fell over in a heap. 

[NanaSomchai]

4 hours ago, lkn said:

How come you get electricity for free and don’t have to pay taxes on profits?

 

Did you btw check how much electricity you are actually using? Right now, most of Europe is concerned about rising energy prices, and of course there is also the environment, we just had this big climate conference.

Socialist country.

[lkn]

8 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

you're just here to troll and FUD mate, so I'm not going to dignify your question with an answer

It was a very simple question, but you have been sold emotions by the likes of Michael Saylor, not facts, and that is why you have to deflect.

 

For new technologies, services, or products, you generally have early adopters, if you talk with these people, they are absolutely ecstatic to show you all the great new things this technology, service, or product can do.

 

But with crypto, nobody is showing me what it can do, on the contrary, if I ask what problem it solves, or what new possibilities it enables, I either get vague statements about how it *will* (in the future) revolutionize all sorts of things, but devoid if any specifics (and ignoring that it is already more than 10 years old), or I get snarky responses like yours, about how we are just haters, and “enjoy staying poor” (as you replied to another comment).

 

And of course, then there are the people who rather than telling how crypto can solve problems or create value, they will rant about how the existing system is broken, how the FED is devaluating the dollar, how banks are gangsters, etc. and *that* is why we need crypto, but again, without actually explaining how crypto solves any of these problems, and completely ignoring that crypto is the wild west of banking on steroids.

[2009]

14 hours ago, lkn said:

This is not representative of the stock market, and I do not know how you calculate risk, but no stocks with low risk go up 1,000% in 5 years.

Well, right now I am comparing risk with crypto.

 

How about Netflix, Amazon, Square, Shopify, Mercado Libre, Trade Desk, Nvidia? Super low risk compared to crypto.

 

These companies have either done 1000% (or more) in the last 5 years or have done that during some 5 year period over the last decade or so.

 

Jesus, the Trade Desk, Shopify, and Square have done from around 2000% to more than 3500% over the last 5 years (only) and these companies are profitable! (Yes, they actually have P/E ratios, lol)!

 

The largest company in Singapore which runs Shopee (heard of Shopee? I use it weekly) and owns the game Free Fire (was the most downloaded game across the world at one point) has rewarded shareholders with 2000% over the last 5 years!

 

That's the largest company in Singapore, na, lol! I didn't find it under a rock! It's such an obvious investment. Shopee and Free Fire are household names.

 

When you look at these gains (vs risks), crypto is just laughable. Just silly little tokens. Might as well trade baseball cards for thousands of dollars.

 

Christ, even Microsoft has done close to 500% over the last 5 years! (while paying a dividend too)

 

Get a grip of yourselves. Bloody unicorn tokens! Haha

Edited November 7, 2021 by 2009

[Neeranam]

15 hours ago, Lemsta69 said:

Billions, soon to be triilions, of dollars are flooding into crypto. wall street is on board, big companies are on board or about too get on board, countries are jumping in too. the richest man in the world invested $1.5bn of Tesla capital into BTC. miners are making massive infrastructure investments in places like Texas. Texas governor is on board with this. NYC has a crypto-friendly mayor now etc etc etc

 

crypto is a tsunami, ignore it at your peril. you should have already bought BTC last year when it was sub-$10k but it's not too late*

 

*not a financial advice, DYOR

The person you are quoting is a troll. I suggest blocking trolls, as they are just a waste of time. No one could seriously not believe crypto is a scam, with, as you say, so much adoption, and the mayor of NY wanting paid in BTC.