On 11/12/2021 at 6:33 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

If Switzerland rejected Anutin's 2 Sinovac plus 1 AZ vaccine history

I don't see why Switzerland would refuse entry to Anutin. Read this web page in English:

https://www.bag.admin.ch/bag/en/home/krankheiten/ausbrueche-epidemien-pandemien/aktuelle-ausbrueche-epidemien/novel-cov/empfehlungen-fuer-reisende/quarantaene-einreisende.html?fbclid=IwAR3HWGtCUOwrUfbqcodaJxHIi8q9WsEQ-zEJLuVsf_12z_Ya0KSzUzFaIDE#-440105700

 

I live in Italy close to the Swiss border and for this reason I keep myself up-to-date with the Swiss entry requirements.

On 11/12/2021 at 10:28 AM, ThailandRyan said:

If what you linked and showed is true, why was the good Minister rejected and sent packing?

From everything I have read, Switzerland did nofuse entry to Anutin. In fact, he has not even left Thailand yet to travel to Switzerland.

On 11/12/2021 at 11:08 AM, Swiss1960 said:

...which makes a visa to Switzerland a visa to Europe 

Wrong, but it does not matter as your post is off topic.

19 hours ago, bradiston said:

Following your link, it looks like the problem may have been to do with vaccine documentation. Also, the Swiss have their own strict rules for issuing a Swiss COVID certificate. Can't see any other reason.

Thai nationals do not need a Swiss Covid certificate to enter Thailand.

42 minutes ago, Puccini said:

Wrong, but it does not matter as your post is off topic.

Please find attached the EU countries (and others) that can be visited with a Visa for Switzerland. Free lesson for you

Wonder if he was given something to remember his TIME in Switzerland, Maybe a Cuckoo clock with just a minute hand.

On 11/14/2021 at 1:02 AM, spidermike007 said:

Choosing Sinovac as the primary vaccine was a brain dead choice and has made Thailand alot more vulnerable than it needed to be. It has no doubt cost millions of jobs, raised the suicide rate, increased homelessness, and contributed to bringing unhappiness to the people. 

 

It has alot delayed the small glimmer of hope, that tourism will revive. 

 

Chinese vaccines “don’t have very high protection rates”, Gao <deleted>, the director of the China Centers for Disease Control, said at a conference on Saturday in the southwestern city of Chengdu.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2021/4/11/chinese-vaccines-effectiveness-low-official-admits#aoh=16368261871015&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s

1. The link you post is to an article published over 6 months ago.

2. Without Sinovac Thailand wouldn't have had a vaccination program. It has served its purpose well. A booster is easily administered. Back in May it was pretty much all that was available. Side effects are minimal.

3. Your claims it has destroyed the Thai economy, caused a rise in suicides etc etc are completely outrageous. This is just muck spreading. Where's the link between Sinovac and any of the disastrous outcomes you allege?

4. Point to a country that hasn't suffered badly, no matter what vaccine they used. The UK? The US? Germany? Israel?  None of these even recognised Sinovac until recently, and then only a couple, let alone use it.

5. It's been a seriously steep learning curve for EVERYBODY. Scientists, politicians, general populace, business owners, multicorps etc etc. 

Edited November 17, 20214 yr by onthedarkside
misinformation comment removed

All this is just an excuse for some mismanagement and why some special people need some special treatment.

8 hours ago, Puccini said:

From everything I have read, Switzerland did nofuse entry to Anutin. In fact, he has not even left Thailand yet to travel to Switzerland.

 

Perhaps he offended someone who lives there...or has family who lives there ????

how can he be so idiot ?

I guess that he was over-estimating his power outside Thailand...

 

 

 

On 11/14/2021 at 9:50 AM, bradiston said:

1. The link you post is to an article published over 6 months ago.

2. Without Sinovac Thailand wouldn't have had a vaccination program. It has served its purpose well. A booster is easily administered. Back in May it was pretty much all that was available. Side effects are minimal.

3. Your claims it has destroyed the Thai economy, caused a rise in suicides etc etc are completely outrageous. This is just muck spreading. Where's the link between Sinovac and any of the disastrous outcomes you allege?

4. Point to a country that hasn't suffered badly, no matter what vaccine they used. The UK? The US? Germany? Israel?  None of these even recognised Sinovac until recently, and then only a couple, let alone use it.

5. It's been a seriously steep learning curve for EVERYBODY. Scientists, politicians, general populace, business owners, multicorps etc etc. 

Utter tripe. Thailand could have had a superior vaccination program, with one of the top vaccines, if they had planned, and shown some vision and courage. 

 

However, planning is not their strength. So, they ended up with the lower grade stuff. And we all know the real reason for that. 

 

I am sure the Sinovac has been a benefit, and is far better than nothing. But, countless studies have indicated a far lower efficacy (around 50%), and a shorter period of protection. 

 

Sinovac did not destroy the economy. Prayuth and Anutin did! 

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Utter tripe. Thailand could have had a superior vaccination program, with one of the top vaccines, if they had planned, and shown some vision and courage. 

Maybe.

 

(Excerpted)

 

NEW YORK/GENEVA, OCTOBER 11, 2021—Millions of people remain at risk of dying from COVID-19 because high-income countries (HICs), including the US, continue to hoard excess vaccine doses, warns a new report released today by Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF).

 

Despite the desperate need for vaccines in LMIC's [low- and middle-income countries], pharmaceutical corporations continue to prioritize sales to the wealthiest countries. Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna—which received significant US funding—have, respectively, allocated 78 percent and 85 percent of their COVID-19 vaccine deliveries to HICs.

 

COVAX recently had to decrease its anticipated 2021 supply forecast by approximately 25 percent due to delayed shipments by several manufacturers. 

 

https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/what-we-do/news-stories/news/us-must-stop-hoarding-excess-covid-19-vaccine-doses

Edited November 14, 20214 yr by jerrymahoney

On 11/14/2021 at 11:47 PM, spidermike007 said:

Utter tripe. Thailand could have had a superior vaccination program, with one of the top vaccines, if they had planned, and shown some vision and courage. 

 

However, planning is not their strength. So, they ended up with the lower grade stuff. And we all know the real reason for that. 

 

I am sure the Sinovac has been a benefit, and is far better than nothing. But, countless studies have indicated a far lower efficacy (around 50%), and a shorter period of protection. 

 

Sinovac did not destroy the economy. Prayuth and Anutin did! 

Could you point to what specifically you consider to be "utter tripe"?

15 hours ago, bradiston said:

Could you point to what specifically you consider to be "utter tripe"?

Where would I start. It would take a full day. How about just the insistence on the part of the so called health minister, that Sinovac was a good choice, and the efficacy is comparable to the others? How about his insistence that they planned well, and were prepared? That the fight against Covid was adequate? That the shutdowns WERE NOT selective. Shall I go on?

On 11/14/2021 at 11:47 PM, spidermike007 said:

Utter tripe. Thailand could have had a superior vaccination program, with one of the top vaccines, if they had planned, and shown some vision and courage. 

Instead of just giving us your I-Could-Go-On-&-On opinion, how was Thailand supposed to pull that off when -- according the the OCT 2021 MSF report linked a few posts above -- about 80% of Pfizer and Moderna production was allocated to high-income countries and only about 20% allocated to middle and low income countries.

 

Take all day if you need it.

Edited November 17, 20214 yr by jerrymahoney

You would think Switzerland had a bit more respect for their top costumes. 

 

18 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You would think Switzerland had a bit more respect for their top costumes. 

 

But isn't he in the pic, Cambodian?

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

Instead of just giving us your I-Could-Go-On-&-On opinion, how was Thailand supposed to pull that off when -- according the the OCT 2021 MSF report linked a few posts above -- about 80% of Pfizer and Moderna production was allocated to high-income countries and only about 20% allocated to middle and low income countries.

 

Take all day if you need it.

Hyperbole to the contrary, it was all about planning. The nations with foresight, who did not skimp, got good vaccines. The lowlifes who did not planning and behaved like cheap Charlies paid a hefty price in the end. 

 

While it is true the rich nations have been hoarding vaccines, good ones were available early on, at a price Thailand could have afforded. Thailand is not a poor nation. At least they were not poor until Prayuth came along and destroyed the economy. 

 

 

55 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Hyperbole to the contrary, it was all about planning. The nations with foresight, who did not skimp, got good vaccines. The lowlifes who did not planning and behaved like cheap Charlies paid a hefty price in the end. 

 

While it is true the rich nations have been hoarding vaccines, good ones were available early on, at a price Thailand could have afforded. Thailand is not a poor nation. At least they were not poor until Prayuth came along and destroyed the economy. 

 

 

This is a map of World Bank Middle-Income countries as of 2021. These countries had to share the 20% of Pfizer and Moderna not allocated to High-Income countries not even couniting the Low-Income countries.

 

Even if the the Thai leadership entered into negotiations with Pfizer and approved their vaccine, that would have been no guarantee that Pfizer Thailand would have been allocated the vaccine ahead of all the other Middle-Income countries that have a Pfizer subsidiary office.

Edited November 18, 20214 yr by jerrymahoney

19 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is a map of World Bank Middle-Income countries as of 2021. These countries had to share the 20% of Pfizer and Moderna not allocated to High-Income countries not even couniting the Low-Income countries.

 

Even if the the Thai leadership entered into negotiations with Pfizer and approved their vaccine, that would have been no guarantee that Pfizer Thailand would have been allocated the vaccine ahead of all the other Middle-Income countries that have a Pfizer subsidiary office.

Absolutely no excuse for not making an earnest effort. Their lack of effort was pathetic, really. 

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely no excuse for not making an earnest effort. Their lack of effort was pathetic, really. 

SEZ U.

 

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolutely no excuse for not making an earnest effort. Their lack of effort was pathetic, really. 

No excuse whatsoever:

 

Pfizer also offered to sell their jabs to the Ministry of Public Health in November of last year.

7 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Where would I start. It would take a full day. How about just the insistence on the part of the so called health minister, that Sinovac was a good choice, and the efficacy is comparable to the others? How about his insistence that they planned well, and were prepared? That the fight against Covid was adequate? That the shutdowns WERE NOT selective. Shall I go on?

1. What has this got to do with my post? I'm not a fan of these guys, and I'm not making those claims on their behalf. In your original post, which is the one I was responding to, you said, inter alia:

 

"Choosing Sinovac as the primary vaccine was a brain dead choice and has made Thailand alot more vulnerable than it needed to be. It has no doubt cost millions of jobs, raised the suicide rate, increased homelessness, and contributed to bringing unhappiness to the people."

 

I think this claim is unjustifiable, and I said so in my reply. On the same basis, I could claim choosing AstraZaneca or Pfizer has had exactly the same effect in the UK, the USA, or Germany. Millions of jobs lost, serious mental illness, impoverishment, homelessness, and a huge amount of unhappiness in every country in the world. There is no miracle cure.

 

2. Perhaps you forget the particular circumstances of the decision surrounding the government's choice of Sinovac, that's if they had a choice. SBS? Does that ring a bell? Availability? Reliable supply? Volumes? It was an emergency. Sinovac was available in quantity, and with a reliable supply. Every country is now looking at a minimum 3rd jab program, for whatever vaccine was available to them.

29 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

This is a map of World Bank Middle-Income countries as of 2021. These countries had to share the 20% of Pfizer and Moderna not allocated to High-Income countries not even couniting the Low-Income countries.

 

Even if the the Thai leadership entered into negotiations with Pfizer and approved their vaccine, that would have been no guarantee that Pfizer Thailand would have been allocated the vaccine ahead of all the other Middle-Income countries that have a Pfizer subsidiary office.

They could have purchased AZ?  Or worked with the WHO on the vaccine they were offering.  Or....

 

They didn't.  They relied on a new manufacturing plant owned by .... and when that didn't work out great, purchased dodgy jabs from China.  Probably with kickbacks involved.

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

No excuse whatsoever:

 

Pfizer also offered to sell their jabs to the Ministry of Public Health in November of last year.

Sell is one thing. Delivery from the limited supply available to middle-income countries is another.

5 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

Sell is one thing. Delivery from the limited supply available to middle-income countries is another.

Make a deal and sign a contract was missing to even test your theory.

Sure they could have done that. They didn't. But the limited quantities available of Pfizer vaccine to the non High Income countries is not a theory. There was no question of delivery of the Chinese vaccines and their huge production capabilities.

Edited November 18, 20214 yr by jerrymahoney

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Make a deal and sign a contract was missing to even test your theory.

Already done by other countries, tried and tested.

 

South Africa & Pfizer:  contracted: 30 mil, arrived: 11 mil. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_vaccination_in_South_Africa#October_2021

24 minutes ago, bradiston said:

1. What has this got to do with my post? I'm not a fan of these guys, and I'm not making those claims on their behalf. In your original post, which is the one I was responding to, you said, inter alia:

 

"Choosing Sinovac as the primary vaccine was a brain dead choice and has made Thailand alot more vulnerable than it needed to be. It has no doubt cost millions of jobs, raised the suicide rate, increased homelessness, and contributed to bringing unhappiness to the people."

 

I think this claim is unjustifiable, and I said so in my reply. On the same basis, I could claim choosing AstraZaneca or Pfizer has had exactly the same effect in the UK, the USA, or Germany. Millions of jobs lost, serious mental illness, impoverishment, homelessness, and a huge amount of unhappiness in every country in the world. There is no miracle cure.

 

2. Perhaps you forget the particular circumstances of the decision surrounding the government's choice of Sinovac, that's if they had a choice. SBS? Does that ring a bell? Availability? Reliable supply? Volumes? It was an emergency. Sinovac was available in quantity, and with a reliable supply. Every country is now looking at a minimum 3rd jab program, for whatever vaccine was available to them.

What?  Impossible to compare Sinovac to AZ or Pfizer.  And to try and tie that into lost of jobs, raised suicide rates, etc?  Doesn't make sense.

 

You are aware of who has a major investment in the company producing Sinovac, right?  Doesn't seem so.

Last time I checked, Switzerland were one of only 6 countries in Europe accepting Sinovac, seem to recall Spain being one also.