4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555

Bangkok is sinking but not because of sea level rise. As for the rest

Bangkok is sinking because of the wright of urban development and unregulated extraction of ground water. The flow of ware into Bangkok is affected by climate change as the quantise and surges are from the Chao pray cachement area. On top of this you now have sea-level ridsing with is accelerating the results of flooding - it may well be permanently or semi permanently underwater in 15 years.

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

So how come a bank will still issue a 30 year loan on a beachfront property?

The banks have a problem - for the most part they are in denial - but of course they make money on loans so refusing major loans would cause a collapse in the system. If the priory gets flooded they cn s=till claim the money on the loan. 

there are of course already areas in BKK where you won't get a loan and of course many people wouldn't want a loan as thy don't want to buy the property.

 

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by Thunglom

8 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

But only half of the water as the Artic ice is floating????

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "floating" - can you explain?

4 hours ago, micmichd said:

Exponential means slow in the beginning and extremely fast in the end. 

Yes - that is correct. So what is your point?

5 hours ago, toolpush said:

Even if the North Pole sea ice all melted, it would not change sea levels one millimeter. Ice floating on water displaces exactly the same amount of water if melted.

Time and again people grab hold ozone misunderstood "fact" and erroneously think it means that they have an argument against climate change - You are not understanding the full picture..  Ice floats. It also holds back other fresh water - 68% of the worlds fresh water is held in the ice caps and glacier th includes places Like Antartica and Green land.

Te advent of huge amounts of "heavier" cold water into the oceans not only affects sea levels - we know this from studying ice ages - it also affects the currents and thus the climates, flow of rivers etc etc.... the melting of tundra also brings about the release of methane the most powerful climate warming gas. which intern accelerates the melting. As I said the significance of ice is that above zero it becomes water so it doesn't need a major hike in temperature, only on degree and it's state has changed.

 

"This sea level rise has been driven by expansion of water volume as the ocean warms, melting of mountain glaciers in all regions of the world, and mass losses from the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets. All of these result from a warming climate. Fluctuations in sea level also occur due to changes in the amounts of water stored on land. The amount of sea level change experienced at any given location also depends on a variety of other factors, including whether regional geological processes and rebound of the land weighted down by previous ice sheets are causing the land itself to rise or sink, and whether changes in winds and currents are piling ocean water against some coasts or moving water away." - Royal society

 

"it is projected that sea level may rise, at minimum, by a further 0.4 to 0.8 m (1.3 to 2.6 feet) by 2100, although future ice sheet melt could make these values considerably higher." Royal Society. 

Remember to that it won't suddenly just stop.

 

Part of the problem is the frequency of extreme weather coupled with sea rises - storm surges and high tides can greatly exaggerate the effects of sea level rise - see the recent floods in BKK.  These are going to be more frequent- the BMA has sought Dutch advice on this and have various plans for sea barriers - most of which look pretty pathetic..

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by Thunglom

43 years ago I assisted building a boathouse for the local sea scouts. The gate to the compound was 4 meters from the waters edge. That same gate is now 7 meters back from the waters edge and they have had to build a jetty out into the river to launch boats. This is on a tidal area of the river and no changes to the course of the river have been made either up or down stream, over the past 65 years.

Perhaps someone would like to explain rising water levers.

 

I'll keep driving my gas gusslers until my ocean-view property is beach front.

21 hours ago, Thunglom said:

the poles are suffering the most dramatic changes of all.

These changes ae most likely to impact quite quickly on the rest of us.

The problem with the poles is water - above 0 degrees it turns to liquid and then flows away - subsequent re-freezing doesn't place the ice lost, but the extra water in the oceans raises sea levels changes currents and climates and jet streams. Ice also forms dams - and these are wasting away too..

 

I think people have a belief that there will be some sudden event - the reality is is already happening and will accelerate exponentially - the problem at the moment is we can't admit to seeing the results because they aren't what we expected at depicted in movies and media...

Exactly right - I'm sure many expect it to be a Hollywood CGI event but satellite photos of the polar ice caps shrinking are clear enough - extraordinary flooding is occurring more frequently and mankind is too small to engineer solutions - The usefulness of the Thames barrier is already to be compromised much earlier than expected to tale one example.

 

Migration on an unimaginable scale. Cities such as  Bangkok and Jakarta already precarious and doomed to flooding and sinking. Drought and the loss of topsoil due to drier climate simply turning it to dust and blowing it away. Fires. Natural carbon capture systems in nature reverse at a certain point and then release the stored carbon. 

 

There was a very good BBC documentary called 'Life at 50 deg C' which is a sobering looking at how once vast and  fertile regions are now desolate and ruined.  As always, humans as a species bury heads in the sand, there will be plenty of that, then start panicked measures when it's really too late. I suppose we watch so much dramatic footage of cataclysmic environmental catastrophes that we become used to the images and they become normal, and as long as it has not quite reached us... Yet.

 

 

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think anything has changed or will change.

Fires, floods and storms have always happened and always will happen.

The sea levels won't change (in our or our children's lifetimes).

 

If there were a chance of imminent and sudden change the banks wouldn't still be lending 30 year mortgages on sea front properties, and world leaders wouldn't still be buying beachfront properties. The money says no change!

 

And even if there were changes it would be entirely natural and humanity would have no way of altering what will happen.

We are on a planet on a path around the sun and the climate will change some what all the time. But it might help a little if China and Russia stop burning coal.

On 11/12/2021 at 5:18 PM, Thunglom said:

Floods, drought, politics and post covid standard of living 

Nothing to do with "climate change".

21 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Where did it reach 60 degrees?

 

 

 

 

It didn't. This is nonsense.

2 hours ago, Thunglom said:

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "floating" - can you explain?

For submarines to operate in the Arctic the ice must be floating. Correct?

As a floating body displaces its own weight of water, if the floating ice were to melt it would no longer displace any water. So if/when the Arctic ice melts the sea level will not change.

13 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nothing to do with "climate change".

What do you think it's to do with, then?

4 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Nothing to do with "climate change".

What do you think it's to do with, then?

Weather.

The new Green Stalinist government in Germany surely will save the planet from climate collaps by shutting down the last coal plants while China's building a new one every week ????

There have been floods and droughts for decades.

Need to keep the masses on their toes and looking over their shoulders for the next catastrophe.

A personal flame post and a graphic post lacking the required weblink to the original content have been removed.

 

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Are you thick or what? For submarines to operate in the Arctic the ice must be floating. Correct?

As a floating body displaces its own weight of water, if the floating ice were to melt it would no longer displace any water. So if/when the Arctic ice melts the sea level will not change.

Hilarious! Wrong on so many assumptions - ware expands when it turns to ice a certain part is always over the surface - but the are talking about the "arctic and antarctic circles circles under which there is a lot of "land". However the addition on water doesn't remain in one place I have pointed out some of the effects already

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by Thunglom

59 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

There have been floods and droughts for decades.

no millenia - it seems you underline a basic problem, that of many people to understand big numbers.

1 hour ago, Oblomov said:

Exactly right - I'm sure many expect it to be a Hollywood CGI event but satellite photos of the polar ice caps shrinking are clear enough - extraordinary flooding is occurring more frequently and mankind is too small to engineer solutions - The usefulness of the Thames barrier is already to be compromised much earlier than expected to tale one example.

 

Migration on an unimaginable scale. Cities such as  Bangkok and Jakarta already precarious and doomed to flooding and sinking. Drought and the loss of topsoil due to drier climate simply turning it to dust and blowing it away. Fires. Natural carbon capture systems in nature reverse at a certain point and then release the stored carbon. 

 

There was a very good BBC documentary called 'Life at 50 deg C' which is a sobering looking at how once vast and  fertile regions are now desolate and ruined.  As always, humans as a species bury heads in the sand, there will be plenty of that, then start panicked measures when it's really too late. I suppose we watch so much dramatic footage of cataclysmic environmental catastrophes that we become used to the images and they become normal, and as long as it has not quite reached us... Yet.

 

 

Indeed - I can't understand why people see all this evidence and yet seem to take the oil companies' line. Maybe they work for oil companies?

2 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Indeed - I can't understand why people see all this evidence and yet seem to take the oil companies' line. Maybe they work for oil companies?

I think for many, the problem seems so huge and distant, that it's easier to switch off from it and  I guess we're all guilty of thinking 'Phew!  I'm glad I'm not in that country or region,' if we're not so immediately affected.

 

I've visited places like Borneo and seen the terrible damage and I was a diver but stopped diving as the seas are so full of plastic and pollution that is now too saddening. On Bali, even in the 25 years I've been staying there, the scale of the damage is staggering. I sometimes wish I didn't look too closely too so don't blame those that try to ignore it.

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I don't think anything has changed or will change.

Fires, floods and storms have always happened and always will happen.

 

Perhaps you should try doing some reading on the subject. Things already have been changing, but seemingly you're not noticing.

 

"Major hurricanes are devastating coastal communities and bringing flooding thousands of miles inland. Wildfires are burning for months. Heatwaves are scorching places where people don’t have air conditioning. Events like these have all happened just this year, and they contributed to another huge annual bill of billion-dollar disasters tracked by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA).

...

NOAA began tracking billion-dollar disasters in 1980. During the 1980s, the U.S. experienced, on average, three disasters per year, giving agencies an average of 66 days between disasters. In 2020, we had 22 disasters, leaving only 14 days for recovery between events.

 

NOAA just announced that in the first nine months of this year we have already surpassed the total disaster costs for all of last year. And we are on pace to set a new record for total number of disasters, with 18 on record through the end of September."

 

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/576130-disaster-fatigue-is-getting-worse-with-more-billion-dollar-extreme

 

 

Extreme weather tormenting the planet will worsen because of global warming, U.N. panel finds

This summer’s extreme weather is just a tame preview of the future, scientists warn

 

 

"August 9, 2021 at 11:28 a.m. EDT

 

From record-crushing heat waves to ruinous floods and fires, extreme weather has punished the planet in recent months. Human-caused climate change is intensifying these devastating extremes and will make them even worse in the coming decades, a panel from the United Nations concluded in its review of climate science.

 

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change report released Monday states that the human influence on weather extremes has “strengthened” since its last review in 2014, particularly for heat waves, heavy downpours, droughts and hurricanes.

 

“We have much clearer evidence on changes in climate extremes as a result of human-induced climate change,” said Sonia Seneviratne, a panel coordinating lead author and climate scientist at the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Zurich."

 

(more)

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2021/08/09/ipcc-2021-extreme-weather-climate/

 

 

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

11 minutes ago, Oblomov said:

I've visited places like Borneo and seen the terrible damage and I was a diver but stopped diving as the seas are so full of plastic and pollution that is now too saddening. On Bali, even in the 25 years I've been staying there, the scale of the damage is staggering. I sometimes wish I didn't look too closely too so don't blame those that try to ignore it.

If the money spent on pointless climate change boondoggles had been used on cleaning up the sea, it would be pristine by now. Climate change alarmists have hijacked the environmental movement, and directed it down a blind alley.

 

I don't really care if the sea level changes, but I would like it to be free of rubbish.

 

Nor do I need to read propaganda from liberal 'we're all doomed' nutters writing about sea level changes, my beachside home of 1960 is still beachside, and the sea isn't any nearer to it (Shoreham Beach). All the Pacific 'sinking islands' that were supposed to be gone by now are also still there, as anyone with Google maps can see for themselves.

 

 

Edited November 13, 20214 yr by BritManToo

18 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If the money spent on pointless climate change boondoggles had been used on cleaning up the sea, it would be pristine by now. Climate change alarmists have hijacked the environmental movement, and directed it down a blind alley.

 

I don't really care if the sea level changes, but I would like it to be free of rubbish.

 

Nor do I need to read propaganda from liberal 'we're all doomed' nutters writing about sea level changes, my beachside home of 1960 is still beachside, and the sea isn't any nearer to it (Shoreham Beach). All the Pacific 'sinking islands' that were supposed to be gone by now are also still there, as anyone with Google maps can see for themselves.

 

 

The sea  is certainly full of rubbish as I know from experience having dived all over Asia and the sad thing is that the marine life is so depleted, that areas that were once so full of diverse marine eco-systems now simply feel dead and look dead. 

 

Not sure who all the 'we're all doomed nutters' are but scientific measurements of sea levels tend to be a little more sophisticated then looking out of the window LOL  Cleaning up the sea and the air and preserving natural carbon capturing environments are all the same thing and lead to the same results or  consequences, depending on how they are managed. 

 

You do know Google maps aren't updated very frequently right? 

 

Watch BBC's 'Life at 50 deg C'   I doubt even the whackos that deny climate change can ignore that! 

 

 

On 11/12/2021 at 5:29 PM, 3NUMBAS said:

60 degrees is now common in the   middle east and drought so no/little  crops can be grown ,your gonna fry ,at 60 to 70 degrees

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

23 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Where did it reach 60 degrees?

 

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

It didn't. This is nonsense.

Yes I know it is. But none the less the Middle East is getting warmer. 53.2 Deg C in Kuwait this summer. A sign of things to come maybe. Glad I don't work in the region anymore.

 

The hottest temperatures around the world

If you want to see what trauma extreme weather is causing around the world, head to the BBC iPlayer and watch 'Panorama Wild Weather: Our World under Threat'.

 

Australians amongst us should really take note.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00117h1/panorama-wild-weather-our-world-under-threat

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

If the money spent on pointless climate change boondoggles had been used on cleaning up the sea, it would be pristine by now.

How do you think they would do that?

 

He wrote that he is assessing climate change by looking out of his window and confirming the sea is still in the same place as yesterday LOL  So I'm not sure he's the man to ask for a good plan LOL

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Yes I know it is. But none the less the Middle East is getting warmer. 53.2 Deg C in Kuwait this summer. A sign of things to come maybe. Glad I don't work in the region anymore.

 

The hottest temperatures around the world

do we then deduce that climate change isn't happening because some claimed 60 degrees Celsius on Thaivisa?

 

I think it's more persuasive to look at the map below.......courtesy of Yale Climate connection.....