Triple motorcycle tragedy: Mother and twins die in Pathum Thani - father grievous in hospital

[Russell17au]

8 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The police are well paid if they did/do their jobs. The police receive 95% of any fine that they issue. The remaining 5% goes to the Department of Land Transport. The 95% received by the police is pooled with other officers  that work back at the station. But being lazy barstools it pays them to take a bribe and split it with no one.

 

 

The police officers pay here is not great, we have 2 relatives that are police officers and their pay is not great plus any uniform or equipement they need they must pay for themselves out of their own pocket because it is not supplied by the government. There is very little equipement supplied by the government, there are a few cars and pick up trucks and some 2 seater motor bikes but everything else is supplied by the police officer himself and paid for out of his own pocket unlike the western countries where they are supplied with decent equipement and paid a decent wage and they can do a decent job of law enforcement.

[BadSpottedDog]

This is tragic. I agree with all that say traffic laws should be enforced, as well as made to learn practical rules & safety before given a license. I've been in Thailand for 6 years, & never seen one person pulled over for a moving violation.
As for giving them more pay? That doesn't make sense unless the above happens. Throwing money at a problem doesn't fix it. You must address the root of the problem first. 
"Give a Man a Fish, and You Feed Him for a Day. Teach a Man To Fish, and You Feed Him for a Lifetime" comes to mind.
If you look at the western culture, there are rules, and they are enforced. There are also MANY poor people too. If stuck without transport, either they will find an alternative, try to improve their situation, or remain poor. If the poor people here have zero clues about motorbike safety, helmets, no cell phone while driving, and the logic behind traffic laws .... giving them more pay will never change that.

[Russell17au]

3 hours ago, sniggie said:

Happened to me in the UK. Lorry turned in front of me. Got most of the speed off but not all of it.  Persuaded to get the police to pursue a case of without due care but eventually the magistrates threw the case out. The lorry driver's union provided a barrister.  Infuriating. I believed then, as I do now, that any car or lorry driver who says that they didn't see a motorbike when turning should automatically be convicted and suffer a disqualification.

 

At least the police cared. It's doubtful if the lorry driver in this case will face any consequenses.  So sad for the family concerned. Yes, some posters will question the motorcycle rider's actions. Too many passengers, probably limited maintenance (brakes) etc. but the lorry driver should have damned well looked.

Let me get this straight. You wanted the lorry driver to be automatically convicted and disqualified because his union presented a case in the court that would have shown that you were the person in the wrong and not the lorry driver. If the lorry drivers union could not present a case that cleared the driver then the judge would have convicted him but the judge must have agreed with there evidence and not yours, so it does not matter to you but if it involves a lorry the lorry driver is automatically in the wrong regardless of what really happened so now it appears that you have a bias against all lorries.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Russell17au

[samjaidee]

8 hours ago, JCP108 said:

Very sad. How about a rule (that is enforced) that limits the number of people on one motorcycle to no more than two?

That a great idea in a perfect world. Unfortunately all over SE Asia (I live in Vietnam) there are thousands upon thousands of families who do not have sufficient funds to buy another motorbike let alone a four wheeled vehicle so they have little choice but to transport their whole family on one motorbike.

[kennw]

7 hours ago, JCP108 said:

I'm for that. However, cars in Thailand aren't a lot safer than bikes and for the same reasons: Absolutely no enforcement of road safety laws. It's Mad Max rules. If you can do it, it's legal. 

Sorry NOT correct.! 80% of road deaths are motorbikes

[ChrisKC]

If people are so poor they can't afford a helmet then provide free and enforce the wearing of them, though being run over by a thing that size might not have made much of a difference.

 

I would speculate that the driver of the truck needed a wide angle to access the site and simply didn't see the motorcycle, legitimately in the proper lane (coming down his inside)

 

RIP that poor family

[Kalasin Jo]

3 hours ago, sniggie said:

Happened to me in the UK. Lorry turned in front of me. Got most of the speed off but not all of it.  Persuaded to get the police to pursue a case of without due care but eventually the magistrates threw the case out. The lorry driver's union provided a barrister.  Infuriating. I believed then, as I do now, that any car or lorry driver who says that they didn't see a motorbike when turning should automatically be convicted and suffer a disqualification.

 

At least the police cared. It's doubtful if the lorry driver in this case will face any consequenses.  So sad for the family concerned. Yes, some posters will question the motorcycle rider's actions. Too many passengers, probably limited maintenance (brakes) etc. but the lorry driver should have damned well looked.

If behind the truck may be the motorbike was too close for the driver to see it in his many mirrors? We all know if you can't see his mirrors he can't see you. But very sad whatever the reason for this.

[farangroby]

7 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

How about a rule (that is enforced) that limits the number of people on one motorcycle to no more than two?

 

7 hours ago, JCP108 said:

That rule exists, as does the helmet rule.

Three people remain on the ground, one woman and two twins, and a fourth grievous in hospital. 
The families of these motorcyclists who exchange a vehicle that should carry, at most, two people for a bus, in a western country, not only would they not have the right to any compensation, but would be forced to pay any damages to the other vehicles involved

[fakser]

7 hours ago, JCP108 said:

I'm for that. However, cars in Thailand aren't a lot safer than bikes and for the same reasons: Absolutely no enforcement of road safety laws. It's Mad Max rules. If you can do it, it's legal. 

Government does not want the proletarian to buy cars. Roads are digested already. 

[kwaussie]

In Australia they have signs on back of trucks, do not over take turning vehicle, i have been riding motorcycles all my life and always stay well back or in front of trucks, so sad for familys involved.

[Russell17au]

Once a truck that size starts to turn he loses all vision down the left hand side and because of the position of his legally placed mirror he has many blind spots that both motorbikes and cars like to venture into. There are 2 sides to a right hand drive truck, the right hand side is the overtaking side and the left hand side is the undertakers side.

[Millcx]

8 hours ago, JCP108 said:

Very sad. How about a rule (that is enforced) that limits the number of people on one motorcycle to no more than two?

How about this site placing this story first instead of the price of a frigging taxi price … Shows the mentality of the site

[kennw]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You seem to be assuming that the, clearly, unloaded truck involved in this accident was "being poorly driven, was badly serviced, was overloaded" and that "Lam Lu Ka Road is poorly maintained".   What do you base all that on?   Is it not possible that this long vehicle was making a normal left turn into a small side road and the overloaded, poorly driven motorbike tried to drive up the inside of the left-turning truck?

Agree. That Lam Luka road is very dangerous, Heavy traffic many car and large trucks. Many intersections with traffic lights, large delays, center "u" turns. And yes many motor bikes in left lane. And MANY accidents. Take car on this road. 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

This picture I took outside Buriram a few years back.

Not on a bike, but similar stupidity and total disinterest by 1 - the police 2 - the parents 3 - the school. Stupidity and total lack of common sense is deep-rooted in Thailand.

[Liverpool Lou]

16 minutes ago, kennw said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

You seem to be assuming that the, clearly, unloaded truck involved in this accident was "being poorly driven, was badly serviced, was overloaded" and that "Lam Lu Ka Road is poorly maintained".   What do you base all that on?   Is it not possible that this long vehicle was making a normal left turn into a small side road and the overloaded, poorly driven motorbike tried to drive up the inside of the left-turning truck?

Expand  

Agree. That Lam Luka road is very dangerous, Heavy traffic many car and large trucks. Many intersections with traffic lights, large delays, center "u" turns. And yes many motor bikes in left lane. And MANY accidents. Take car on this road. 

My point was that the road is not "badly maintained", as he claimed.

[seedy]

4 hours ago, sniggie said:

 lorry driver who says that they didn't see a motorbike when turning should automatically be convicted and suffer a disqualification.

Riding bikes my whole life. Driving trucks my whole life.

Your statement is nonsense.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

The police officers pay here is not great,

Please read.     

Quote

 

A person working as a Police Officer in Thailand typically earns around 60,400 THB per month. Salaries range from 27,800 THB (lowest) to 96,000 THB (highest).

This is the average monthly salary including housing, transport, and other benefits. Police Officer salaries vary drastically based on experience, skills, gender, or location. Below you will find a detailed breakdown based on many different criteria.

 

 

 

I can't post a link but 

Quote

Top policeman 'worth B104m'

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by IvorBiggun2

[Gold Star]

Tragic loss of a family. 

 

With the lack of details, one can't say if 5 on the bike was THE main cause.  I have survived been run over by an idiot in a truck before, and in that instance it would not have mattered if I was alone, or had 10 people on it. 

 

Of course, having even one passenger reduces the maneuverability and control to react quickly in emergency situations, and increases the chances of injuries in an accident as there are more eggs in one basket. 

 

You would think that there would be many more accidents with multiple passengers than what is reported.  Perhaps it is that although I see bikes with more than 2 people very often, they are never being driven in an unsafe manner, as they have always been slower and way more cautious and attentive, hugging the side of the road as traffic passes by.

 

It would be interesting to see the detailed accident statistics regarding multiple passenger motorcycles vs. single riders, considering the huge difference in not only speed, but the difference in cautious vs aggressive ways they are driven.

 

When a jet crashes, it makes news implying it is very dangerous, but when comparing the safety of travelling by plane vs. autos, the reality proves otherwise.

 

Here's some Asian overloaded bikes. 9 up is pushing it...

[LikeItHot]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

How about improving the wages of the working class so they can afford a car? 

So you want them to go from 100 kilo killing machines to 1000 kilo killing machines?  You're gonna need a good supply of body bags.

[David T Pike]

I NEVER see patrol cars here. I have never seen anyone pulled over for infractions! It's Mad Max out here! The only tickets I know of are the one cameras take and are mailed! Who cares what the laws are broke if they are not enforced and prosecuted? Believe it or not there are low income farangs over here but ya don't see THEM 3 or 4 on a bike or have toddlers with them! You play ya pay! Sadly the kids have no say in this....

[itsari]

9 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

How about improving the wages of the working class so they can afford a car? 

That is needed ,  the wealth distribution required will not happen for some time yet . 

[Russell17au]

12 minutes ago, David T Pike said:

I NEVER see patrol cars here. I have never seen anyone pulled over for infractions! It's Mad Max out here! The only tickets I know of are the one cameras take and are mailed! Who cares what the laws are broke if they are not enforced and prosecuted? Believe it or not there are low income farangs over here but ya don't see THEM 3 or 4 on a bike or have toddlers with them! You play ya pay! Sadly the kids have no say in this....

I have seen a few Highway Patrol Toyota Camery's but I have only ever seen them doing escort work on official van convoys and escorting other official cars and buses around. I have never seen them doing any actual law enforcement patrol work on the highways.

[whaleboneman]

Why on earth was this family on a motorbike? They should have taken the Tesla.

RIP poor family. 

[seedy]

21 minutes ago, David T Pike said:

 I have never seen anyone pulled over for infractions!

You have not been here long then.

Edited November 13, 2021 by seedy

[Russell17au]

2 minutes ago, seedy said:

You have not been here long then.

I agree with David, in the 10 years that I have lived in Thailand I have only ever seen people get an infringement notice at a road check point, I have never seen a highway patrol car or motorbike patrol ever pull a driver over for an infringement and I travel highway 2 in Isaan and other area roads here quite often.

 

[ChrisKC]

There are many people on this forum (including me) in circumstances such as these tragic accidents about riders and passengers not wearing a crash helmet, but I would guess that most people DO have a helmet but don't wear it.

 

In addition, I would comment, a little apropos of a previous comment of mine here, that many people somehow cannot afford a helmet but have no problem having smart phone.

 

I understand that a motorbike is often the "family vehicle" and there is little problem about helmet wearing unless one has some sort of incident, nevertheless, it is truly irresponsible of Parents who may or not be wearing a helmet but carrying one or more small children without one. And of course it is breaking the law.

 

Yes, it's true I think, that the police are not well paid but they HAVE undertaken to accept and do the job and therefore they have responsibilities to enforce the law. They really do have the job that could make meaningful differences to the number of accidents; death and suffering in the short and medium term.

 

I am very sorry that I have seen no improvement in 19 years. Given that some people are killing themselves and others that were not even born when I first arrived in Thailand, this means a whole generation has missed out on many necessary lessons. And I fear it will continue!

 

[JCP108]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Really?  So when the laws are enforced what is the penalty for these offenders?   You don't really think that they are just released with no fine every time, do you? 

Right now the penalty for these risk-taking riders on dangerous roads with no enforcement is often death (as it was three times over in this case). So, I suggest something less than the death penalty so that would be an improvement. The discussion is pointless, though. Thai police will never enforce traffic laws (unless you are a farang who they expect can pay a big fine). 

[Russell17au]

11 minutes ago, ChrisKC said:

There are many people on this forum (including me) in circumstances such as these tragic accidents about riders and passengers not wearing a crash helmet, but I would guess that most people DO have a helmet but don't wear it.

 

In addition, I would comment, a little apropos of a previous comment of mine here, that many people somehow cannot afford a helmet but have no problem having smart phone.

 

I understand that a motorbike is often the "family vehicle" and there is little problem about helmet wearing unless one has some sort of incident, nevertheless, it is truly irresponsible of Parents who may or not be wearing a helmet but carrying one or more small children without one. And of course it is breaking the law.

 

Yes, it's true I think, that the police are not well paid but they HAVE undertaken to accept and do the job and therefore they have responsibilities to enforce the law. They really do have the job that could make meaningful differences to the number of accidents; death and suffering in the short and medium term.

 

I am very sorry that I have seen no improvement in 19 years. Given that some people are killing themselves and others that were not even born when I first arrived in Thailand, this means a whole generation has missed out on many necessary lessons. And I fear it will continue!

 

One of the big problems though Chris is that this and all the previous governments have failed to supply the police with the vehicles (patrol cars and decent motorbikes) to get out on the roads to catch the offenders instead of waiting at some useless stationary checkpoint that everyone knows is there so they can detour around them, but saying that you still need the police to enforce the laws even at the checkpoints (no helmets, too many on a bike, no registration on both cars and bikes, no licences, etc)

[Scott Tracy]

Putting aside the accident for a moment. I have to agree with what some people have said about personal responsibility. 4 up on a motorcycle is not good. 

 

The full circumstances of the collision are not known to me, but I have seen some motorcycle riders in Thailand put themselves needlessly at risk of collision by lack of awareness and anticipation. Not treating everyone as being out to kill them. Failure to look anywhere other than where they are going when pulling out of a side road. Putting themselves on the left of a left turning lorry, or even the right side when the lorry is turning right. Mind you, fair to say this happens world wide. What seems to be more prevalent though, lack of helmets, no rear lights, sometimes no rear plates for lights to reflect off. Overtaking other riders without regards to other traffic, no mirrors or lack of use of those fitted.

The list is interminable. Or so it seems.

[thailand49]

I don't begrudge anyone here that can't afford a vehicle like a car!  It is sadly what it is because there is no enforcement and especially no education how to understand and apply the rules. I've personally done it myself but not often when my son was young I would take him to school the priority was we always wore a helmet a number of times I took his little friends home because the parents didn't show up but being trained I still broke the law but you can break the law here and do it safely which is what I did.

From reading this story although it lacks information I'm going to assume what happen been here 15 plus years see it happen everyday hundreds if not thousands of time seen close to a dozen deaths on motorbikes and that is the common practice of under and overtaking. There is a rule or law that one shouldn't do it 200-300 meters from an intersection but no one including the police know it exist. From the story it seems the biker wasn't educated to get the big picture when a vehicle slows down or stop it is for a reason you don't just continue medal to the pedal. Under and overtaking isn't done safely or cautiously here!  It could also be the bike was along side the truck and the driver never check his mirror prior to executing the turn.

 

Really sad RIP!