Int'l Travel is Broken - Thailand Pass experience (long)

[World Traveller2]

1 minute ago, Marvest said:

Thanks Sheryl for input and making this information better!

Yes, thanks Sheryl.

 

Of course there are potentially at least three or four types of 'departure'...

 

1. Departure from last flight which the destination is Thailand

2. First flight in itinerary

3. First international flight in itinerary

4. First int'l flight in which destination (in this case, Thailand), that is part of one ticket (purchased together). ***this is what got me stuck in Paris enroute to Istanbul, because it didn't***

 

I can think of others, but you get the picture. There are about thirty-six possible combinations (six factors X six factors) according to my lousy math.

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, Stefanix said:

Thanks for this info!

I found some info with Google that there are different PCR testing methods:

https://driphydration.com/blog/rapid-pcr-vs-rt-pcr/

https://www.enzolifesciences.com/science-center/technotes/2017/march/what-are-the-differences-between-pcr-rt-pcr-qpcr-and-rt-qpcr?/

I have no knowledge of this subject and am a bit confused now. Can you comment on those without going too deep into details? Thanks!

Ignore the first link, it is a not a scientific source. The seocn d is better.

 

PCR = Polymerase Chain Reaction. It is basically a technique that  rapidly copies minute amounts of DNA to make it large enough to be detected.  It can be done for any number of things, not just COVID. To do it without a prior process, DNA must be present. All bacteria, but only some viruses, contain DNA.

 

RT  in this context = Reverse Transcriptase. It is the production of DNA from strands of RNA and is a necessary first step for a PCR test of a virus which contains only RNA and no DNA.

 

The COVID virus has no DNA, it has only RNA. Therefore it is impossible to detect it via a direct PCR, the PCR step has to be performed after first doing Reverse Transcription. This full name for this 2 step process is RT-PCR.

 

 

[EricTh]

Which approved insurance company offer the cheapest rate for the exorbitant USD 50k insurance requirement?

[Negita43]

Comprehensive and balanced but can't agree with the title. International travel is not broken but it's certainly more complicated.

One thing highlighted that does need addressing by both government (all) and testing companies is that of the RT-PCR test.

When I came early December I had booked a 6 hour result PCR test at Manchester airport. On looking at Emirates Dubial entry info it clearly said Rapid PCR test not accepted (I could not at that time see anything on Thai government sites about this).

At that point I queried my test provider and their support staff were not really clear about whether it was or not. Research on the inet also was not too clear, although it appears rapid does not only refer to test response time but also whether a nose and throat swab or just a nose swab is taken.

Out of an abundance of caution (as they say) I rebooked my RT-PCR for a 24 hour result in the UK to be safe and all went well.

However, I do think there needs to be more clarity and consistency from governments and testing companies about what constitutes a "rapid" PCR and what constitutes a "normal" PCR test and which will be accepted for entry.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Negita43
grammatical error

[World Traveller2]

52 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Which approved insurance company offer the cheapest rate for the exorbitant USD 50k insurance requirement?

I found AXA (Thailand) to be a much better deal than anything from Canada. The plans from home were excessive in both high limits and price. Also, AXA is integrated with Thai hospital system, so no need to be reimbursed.

 

However, what I want to hear about is subscriber's experiences 'from the trenches' of actually having a medical emergency and using the AXA plan, COVID-related or otherwise.

 

'The proof of the pudding is in the tasting'

[goldenbrwn1]

Seriously, I have to print it all out? I have everything inc AXA insurance, hotel 24 hr booking, vaccine certification, Thai pass, visa and all the hoop jumping in a file on my iPad. I haven’t laid eyes on a printer here in the uk for donkeys years!

[The Hammer2021]

19 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Try reading my post accurately.

Here is what I stated in regards to mask wearing in streets. 

 

"True uniformly worn in streets etc."

 

I was at Pattaya for that week.

Places like Tree Town. etc full on bar drinking zero masks. 

Beach scene I posted is what a Photoshop.

What's your point.

 

This long weekend our local upstairs restaurant/bar with live music Zero masks. BTW two night we couldn't get in Full.

So went to new food/market close by JOOD Fair. (same owners Ratchada night train). VERY busy folk walking with alcohol and restaurants full. Zero masks. 

 

Tomorrow I'm meeting couple friends Soi 4 for catch up.

Mask will be worn on the way there. That's it.

 

This Thursday Koh Samet for few weeks and masks on beach areas and restaurants/bars will be zero.

 

There is only one disinformation post I can see. Not mine. 

 

Masks are not required or expected when eating or drinking so why mention it. I live in Pattaya and there is almost total mask compliance apart from when people are eating, drinking or brushing their teeth.

[ubonjoe]

59 minutes ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Seriously, I have to print it all out? I have everything inc AXA insurance, hotel 24 hr booking, vaccine certification, Thai pass, visa and all the hoop jumping in a file on my iPad. I haven’t laid eyes on a printer here in the uk for donkeys years!

You need about all of it printed out. There was new article about a person that did not have the Thailand Pass printed out and was not allowed entry until she managed to print it.

[khunjeff]

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

RT-PCR test is NOT a "rapid test." 

You're correct that the "RT" doesn't mean rapid, but there is nothing inherently rapid or non-rapid about the test - there are versions available (usually for a very high price) that take less than an hour that are perfectly acceptable. When I had one done in a private hospital in Bangkok as a requirement for surgery, it was in their interest to do it quickly, and the result came in under two hours.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

Thailand Pass takes 3 to 7 days for approval.

That's what they say, but a fair percentage of folks get near-instant approval, and many others - as you noted - go well beyond the 7 days with no answer. That might not be a big deal if they knew the Pass would be approved, but when it's denied after waiting over a week, the traveler has a big problem.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

USD50,000 hospitalization insurance that covers COVID treatment - purchase at AXA or misterprakan.com

Just to clarify, any insurance that meets the requirements is acceptable. I used my regular US medical insurance - I just asked the company for a letter summarizing the benefits and submitted that.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

Documentation does not specify round-trip and I was approved WITHOUT round-trip.  But I recommend submitting your round-trip itinerary.

The type of ticket needed for entry depends on the type of visa (or visa exemption) you have, and how strict your airline is at check-in (immigration itself virtually never asks to see an onward ticket) - it has no bearing on Thailand Pass. (Just for clarification, an actual round trip ticket is never required, but an onward ticket out of Thailand - to any destination - may be.)

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

The ‘RT’ in RT-PCR does NOT stand for rapid test.  Rapid tests do NOT qualify.

As noted above, rapid RT-PCR tests are fine. The issue is that many people see the word "rapid" and only think of Rapid Antigen Tests, which aren't fine for entry to Thailand.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

A Delta flight attendant told me she heard that PCR tests from Walgreens and CVS are not acceptable.

As Sheryl noted, and many others can attest, that definitely isn't true.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

A negative test is required no more than 72 hours before entry.  However (big HOWEVER), you must have the result before you can get on the plane.  Carefully calculate the 72s before your arrival considering time zones and datelines.

No calculations or knowledge of time zones is needed. As Sheryl and others have noted, the 72 hours relates to the scheduled departure time of the FIRST flight of your journey, even if that's a short hop domestic flight.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

I strongly recommend printing 2 copies of all your docs.

I agree that printing everything is much more sensible than trying to hand your phone back and forth to multiple people, but I can't see any reason for more than one copy - no one retains any documents, they just examine them and check them off on a list.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

When arriving at your transit location, you must transfer from the arrival gate to the departing gate.  This may be straight forward or not depending on the airport.  In Incheon International Airport (Seoul South Korea), you must go to the transfer desk.

You're right, this is totally dependent on the transit airport. Reports I've heard from Tokyo and Helsinki were very similar to yours, but when I went through Singapore Changi there were NO document checks at all - just show up at the gate with a boarding pass and get on the plane. Some of this may also depend on whether the final flight is on the same airline as the initial flight - a carrier probably wants to double check the work done by a code share partner, but may trust the inspection done by its own personnel at the origin airport.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

The one document that I was not expecting to show was my boarding pass for the arriving flight.  They use this for contact tracing if you turn up positive.

They may be recording the seat number for tracing purposes, but actually immigration had been asking incoming passengers for their boarding pass for several years prior to Covid - so this isn't a new thing.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

I believe all SHA+/AQ hotels provide meals because you can not leave until you get a post arrival negative test result.

As Sheryl mentioned, this (surprisingly) isn't true at all.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

Morchana is the name of the Thailand Pass phone app that must be installed before leaving the SHA+/AQ hotel.

Mor Chana isn't a Thailand Pass app at all - it was around for a long time prior to the introduction of Thailand Pass as one of many apps designed for scanning QR codes when entering and exiting buildings and other places. Your experience was also definitely not typical in terms of how interested your hotel was in making you install and use it. Although it's technically still required, and I had installed it prior to departing the US, I was never asked about it at either the airport or my hotel - this seems to be the norm for most arrivals. (incidentally, the scanning of the TP QR code never works - I entered all my info manually.)

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

If you are staying in Thailand for 7 days or more, the hotel will give you the ATK test kit.  You must test yourself on the seventh day and upload the result into the Morchana app.

Despite what the government and hotels keep telling people, Mor Chana does not have, and has never had, any upload functionality. Since the briefest look at the app would confirm that, I don't understand why they keep pretending otherwise and confusing the poor travelers who think they're missing something.

 

20 hours ago, Marvest said:

If you are in public you must wear a mask - indoors or outdoors.  Compliant rates are very high.  I haven’t seen anyone not wearing a mask.  I also read that masks with vents are non-compliant.

Agreed. Contrary to what some folks keep claiming, masks are worn everywhere, by pretty much everyone. The only groups who consistently don't wear them are white male foreigners (who seemingly don't notice that literally everyone around them is masked), and very poor homeless and crazy people (no surprise there).

 

Photos of people at restaurants without masks kind of miss the point - OF COURSE everyone takes off their masks to eat and drink. If someone wants to argue that the existence of unmasked restaurant patrons is a reason to do away with mask mandates, well, go ahead, but it's not very convincing.

 

(As for vented masks, I believe - please correct me if I'm wrong - that they were only banned for use on board domestic flights, not for general use when out and about.)

[Stefanix]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Ignore the first link, it is a not a scientific source. The seocn d is better.

 

PCR = Polymerase Chain Reaction. It is basically a technique that  rapidly copies minute amounts of DNA to make it large enough to be detected.  It can be done for any number of things, not just COVID. To do it without a prior process, DNA must be present. All bacteria, but only some viruses, contain DNA.

 

RT  in this context = Reverse Transcriptase. It is the production of DNA from strands of RNA and is a necessary first step for a PCR test of a virus which contains only RNA and no DNA.

 

The COVID virus has no DNA, it has only RNA. Therefore it is impossible to detect it via a direct PCR, the PCR step has to be performed after first doing Reverse Transcription. This full name for this 2 step process is RT-PCR.

 

 

Excellent! Thanks a lot for this clarification! Testing facilities advertise sometimes "PCR"-tests and sometimes "RT-PCR"-tests. Now I understand that both is the same. Anyway, because Thailand requires "RT-PCR"-tests it might be still a good idea to get the test done where the certificate states "RT-PCR-tested". Not sure if airlines and immigration staff understand that there is no difference.

[Road Warrior]

think FORGET  travel in  or out of thailand -

[Sheryl]

7 minutes ago, Stefanix said:

Excellent! Thanks a lot for this clarification! Testing facilities advertise sometimes "PCR"-tests and sometimes "RT-PCR"-tests. Now I understand that both is the same. Anyway, because Thailand requires "RT-PCR"-tests it might be still a good idea to get the test done where the certificate states "RT-PCR-tested". Not sure if airlines and immigration staff understand that there is no difference.

They don't (and can't be expected to). This is the problem. All they know is their instructions are that "RT-PCR" is needed.

 

The problem really is in the Thai mandated criteria, should be made more clear for lay people.

[CygnusX1]

Great post. I’ve forwarded it to a mate of mine who’s very unwisely booked a trip to Thailand in March. 

[connda]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Comprehensive and balanced but can't agree with the title. International travel is not broken but it's certainly more complicated.

Depending on where you chose to travel. 

[KCM3]

*I have just re-entered Thailand via the ThaiPass.  The OP description is reasonably accurate based on my experiences, but as always, your results may vary. 

*I also entered in Oct under the CEO/Sandbox program, and the ThaiPass is easier to sign up for online and easier to get through checkpoints when entering Thailand (less paperwork).

*Regarding pdf’s etc., I simply scanned all my docs to my phone via Apple Notes and then was able to upload those images to the ThaiPass application very easily.  This is much better than the COE online applications, which was not compatible with IOS.  You needed a laptop to complete the application.

*I agree that having everything printed out is better than having it on your phone.

*The timing for the PCR test varies greatly depending on were you get it.  I got a proper (accepted) PCR test with a 1 hour turn around in NYC.   Generally you can get a 3 hour turn-around most other places if you are prepared to pay, otherwise its usually 24 hours.  You need the negative result to check in at your initial departure gate, so time it wisely.

*We flew NYC/Dubai/Bangkok.  The only time my vaccine record and insurance were checked was at the initial airport check-in.  In Thailand itself I was asked for the QR code from my ThaiPass, my negative PCR test, and my boarding pass.  They will check your documents and stamp your entry card with a blue stamp prior to sending you to immigration.   Immigration is close to normal - present your passport/visa, entry card and ThaiPass QR code and customs is as normal.  The toughest/most stressful document check was prior to boarding in Dubai.  A number of passengers were denied entry based on paperwork issues.  The flight was delayed due to these checks and then the offloading of their bags. 

*The Test and Go hotel drill seems to be reasonably smooth if you are going through Bangkok.  We came in on a very full A380 and were in our hotel room in less than 2 hours.

*As an aside, a reasonable percentage of the passengers on the Dubai to Bangkok leg seemed to be genuine tourists, mostly from France and Eastern Europe/Russia.  The flight was 95+% full.

*Overall my experience with ThaiPass was ok and while you can’t just jump on a plane to travel to Thailand anymore, the process will not deter me from traveling even more frequently in 2022.

Edited December 14, 2021 by KCM3
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[alex8912]

8 hours ago, World Traveller2 said:

Which country are you referring to in this reply. I surmise it is Thailand.

 

You are so correct Sheryl. Misunderstandings by airline staff about timing of PCR tests, stop-overs, when one left the country versus first domestic flight - it's complicated! I spent two night in a transit lounge outside Paris (CDG) due to this kind of confusion

I would have reported that Delta Air worker to the highest supervisor and let them know none of their employees should be spreading insane lies regarding CVS and Walgreen RT-PCR tests are not accepted. That employee should be made to apologize and immediately fired! 

[alex8912]

Can someone please post the exact correct link for AXA insurance?  It's been mentioned 10x but no link. There are so many confusing sites so I think the exact link would be helpful. Also can you buy this insurance from most countries?  One other point as mentioned once is that Singapore transit does NOT allow the 72 hour window it is 2 days before you need a  negative RT-PCR test.  This is very important to know. And you must ALWAYS check your transit countries requirements.  NO ONE traveling from USA to Thailand for example can fly non stop. It is impossible. 

[The Hammer2021]

6 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Seriously, I have to print it all out? I have everything inc AXA insurance, hotel 24 hr booking, vaccine certification, Thai pass, visa and all the hoop jumping in a file on my iPad. I haven’t laid eyes on a printer here in the uk for donkeys years!

All libraries and internet cafes offer printing services. It's is a conceit of youth that people don't use printers or printed documents. Even E tickets need to be printed in case of device or WIFI failure

[mitebbots]

8 hours ago, onekoolguy said:

I actually read it all! Thanks for your detailed post.

I returned 6 december and most of my experience was a little different.

The pcr test at CVS was drive through and best of all Free! Notice comes email next day.

Getting thai pass very stressful! 6 hours on computer and phone calls to numbers seldom answered took 10 days. My friend who did hers on her phone in 10 minutes was approved in 6 hours!

On masks, yes you need to wear, but long meals and sleeping with blankets pulled up high. Ment that they were not so strict. In Thailand my mask has vents but they are filtered both ways. No one confronts me. The filters are 2.5 and far more effective than medical masks  On mor Chana. I had a cheap phone ready to install the program but was never asked to do so.

I booked a very good hotel so no waiting, private car waiting. Pcr test at check in. Just me. Fast service option and had result in two hours.

There are a lot of moving parts to the Thai Pass and all have to mesh. That's

stressful. Other than that easy!

Where do you get the PM 2.5 masks? I like the vented ones. 

 

I'll be on Delta to ICN and Korean Air 653 hope all goes well. thanks OP

 

 

[talahtnut]

On 12/13/2021 at 1:55 PM, Marvest said:

To recap, it’s much more strenuous to pass all the boarding check points than it is to enter Thailand.

 

Thank you for a brilliant post.

Heres the kicker...Would you do it again?

 

 

[tgeezer]

I have sent three applications so each with what I thought better information and had two rejections, the first for insurance, and the second for insurance and record of vaccinations.  I expect a third rejection because it is apparent that no record is kept of previous registrations and working like a one arm paper hanger between iPhone and iPad things have obviously been omitted.  I have everything required but there is no means of contacting Immigration and supplying extra information because the four phone lines and the email account are blocked, probably because of heavy traffic. . Perhaps my Guardian Angel is looking after me and is not in my fate to go at this time. I believe that airlines are looking favourably on cancelled plans and will give credit for tickets bought and not used. 

[Michel PUISSANT]

I just successfully completed the Thailand Pass form and now waiting for the reviewing to happen.

 

BUT I'm having a huge doubt : I had prepared a .jpeg of my passport in order to upload it to TP. But then I have absolutely no memory of ever uploading it to TP.

 

Did I or... Did I not ?

 

Does anyone know if it's required ? If it was and let's assume I forgot to upload it, I don't think it would have let me pass and even complete the whole thing.

 

It's day 1 and I'm scared of missing something already. The fun is still to come in days ahead I guess. What a madness ????

 

EDIT : nevermind, it *is* required (I just had another go at it).

So I did upload it.
Disregard my post ????

Edited December 14, 2021 by Michel PUISSANT

[wn78]

On 12/13/2021 at 8:55 AM, Marvest said:

Gators and cloth masks don’t comply.  

No cloth masks at all?  Does it have to be a disposable surgical type of KN95 mask?

 

On 12/13/2021 at 8:55 AM, Marvest said:

Documentation does not specify round-trip and I was approved WITHOUT round-trip.  But I recommend submitting your round-trip itinerary.

That is useful, so you got approved with no issues having only a one-ways ticket?  And neither the airline, not the immigration officers at arrival cared about it?  I remember pre-Covid being asked to show a round trip ticket by the airline at check in and it took some convincing that I did not need it.  I agree it's best to have a return ticket. 

 

Thanks again for the write up!

[geisha]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

.I can verify that PCR tests from CVS are fine for entry. Any PCR test is (NOT antigen test) but there have been issues with airline staff if it does not specifically say "RT-PCR" somewhere on it. Report I got from CVS did.  (Actually all PCR tests are RT-PCR ...there is no other type. But not all results clearly state this).

 

An important correction to OP: the test must be 72 hours before departure, not before arrival.

 

Also it is not required to stay at quarantine hotel for 24 hrs if results are available earlier. You can leave as soon as you receive a negative result. Your package includes 1 night and there is mo tefund if you leave before then, but you can.

 

And lastly, not all Test & Go packages include meals. Some include 3 meals, some 2, some 1 and some none (though they sometimes offer a discoint on room service orders.) This difference greatly confuses attempts at cost comparison.

Sheryl please, I’m still a bit confused over PCR timings. If I’m leaving at 14 hrs Saturday , I thought to do my test the Friday morning, as in France we get the result the same evening. Am I right ? I’ll arrive midday (12h) Sunday.

[Sheryl]

5 hours ago, geisha said:

Sheryl please, I’m still a bit confused over PCR timings. If I’m leaving at 14 hrs Saturday , I thought to do my test the Friday morning, as in France we get the result the same evening. Am I right ? I’ll arrive midday (12h) Sunday.

For a departure at 2 PM Saturday you can be tested anytime after 2 PM on Wednesday (72 hours prior to departure). If I were you I would not do it later than Thursday morning just in case there is some unforseen problem.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Seriously, I have to print it all out? I have everything inc AXA insurance, hotel 24 hr booking, vaccine certification, Thai pass, visa and all the hoop jumping in a file on my iPad. I haven’t laid eyes on a printer here in the uk for donkeys years!

Try a photo shop. The same set up that prints pictures from your phone will print documents.

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Can someone please post the exact correct link for AXA insurance?  It's been mentioned 10x but no link. There are so many confusing sites so I think the exact link would be helpful. Also can you buy this insurance from most countries?  One other point as mentioned once is that Singapore transit does NOT allow the 72 hour window it is 2 days before you need a  negative RT-PCR test.  This is very important to know. And you must ALWAYS check your transit countries requirements.  NO ONE traveling from USA to Thailand for example can fly non stop. It is impossible. 

https://www.axa.co.th/en/axa-sawasdee-thailand-travel-insurance

 

You can buy it online

[grain]

On 12/13/2021 at 9:19 PM, mfd101 said:

Based on the above account, I don't think I'll be traveling outside Thailand perhaps ever, at least until death do us part.

 

Never mind. Travel is best in the mind.

Yep same here. I have family and belongings back in Australia and need to go there some time to see family and sort some things out, but as long as these travel regulations remain in place I sure ain't going anywhere near an airport.

[Marvest]

13 hours ago, talahtnut said:

 

Thank you for a brilliant post.

Heres the kicker...Would you do it again?

 

 

Short answer is: yes.  To be fair, I have ties to Thailand so it is inevitable.  My experience was stressful because of the short transfer times and trying to deal with standby flight, so some of the pain was self inflicted.  My standby status definitely complicated things for me.  I can apply what I learned this time to make it easier for myself next time.  I also might add, it's been two long years since I have been here.  It's great to be back.

[Marvest]

9 hours ago, wn78 said:

No cloth masks at all?  

 

That is useful, so you got approved with no issues having only a one-ways ticket? 

I have been in Thailand for three days now and 99% of the masks I see are surgical of KN95.  That is not a scientific count so please do hold me to it Jeff.

 

Yes, I did not have a round trip ticket (or an onward ticket).  My TP was approved without it and I was never questioned about it by airlines, TP counter on arrival or immigration.  But I was nervous about it and think I will book it next time to reduce the possibility of trouble.