32 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Would point out it's much harder to kill lots of people if you only have swords and knives.

Science makes mass killing a lot easier.

I'm thinking there would be a lot less American 'peace keeping' activities if all the drone pilots and missile men were issued with spears and clubs.

Alot more people is protected and secured because of arms and weapons! It have always been a race to be secured and scare away the crazy ones. What is a jail without weapons to keep them in?

25 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Science however, has already given us AI & WMD & Pollution, which in hands of Dark or Misguided Humans, will ultimately end Humanity.

Or not.

 

It was a great post until this final bit of predicting the future. Wish you'd have reworded it or omitted it completely. Still a good post prior. ????

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

No science, no trading or commerce ????????

Completely wrong.

Unless you want to claim such things as basic tool using is 'science'.

The Romans, Phoenicians, Mongol hordes et al, managed decent empires without anything like science.

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I'm still claiming without science he wouldn't have got it.

 

18 minutes ago, 2009 said:

Agreed.

Some research always a good thing before posting ... well, self explanatory

 

Using a selection-informed evolutionary model, we show that the common ancestor of extant HCV genotypes existed at least 3000 years ago (CI: 3192–5221 years ago), with the oldest genotypes being endemic to Asia.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2018.00854/full

 

Educate yourselves

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Completely wrong.

Unless you want to claim such things as basic tool using is 'science'.

The Romans, Phoenicians, Mongol hordes et al, managed decent empires without anything like science.

We can start with use of fire, is based on knowledge from science. Mongols used wheels right and arms! 

34 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Science +Reason / Logic + Education +Democracy =Light (West & Allies)

555 - Right ! 555

22 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Completely wrong.

Unless you want to claim such things as basic tool using is 'science'.

The Romans, Phoenicians, Mongol hordes et al, managed decent empires without anything like science.

They had lots of science by then. Did the Egyptians build pyramids without science? There are many other examples of applied science in history well before Roman times as well. If you don't agree, define what you consider "science".

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

They had lots of science by then. Did the Egyptians build pyramids without science? There are many other examples of applied science in history well before Roman times as well. If you don't agree, define what you consider "science".

Science, logical progression of thoughts, something primitive peoples whom believe in a god/s can't do. Science didn't exist in the world before 1700.

33 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

OMG!!  Subjectivity is your yardstick???  Scientists around the world should collectively pen a letter declaring this poll to be a sham!!

Snipped right out of context by His disingenuous Majesty, the vainglorious word salad SPIN KING ????!!! 

???? 

38 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

So, the obvious conclusion that it isn't science that's good or evil, it's people. The same argument is used for guns, it's not the guns that kill people. Science is a very good thing, just like all knowledge, no exceptions. It's the way that the knowledge is used which is beneficial or not. Not science itself.

Yup.  Skeptic needs to request the mods to change the title of his poll to read, "Have Scientists Been Beneficial or Detrimental to Humanity?"

I agree with your point.  Whether science or a gun, neither are good or evil.  Not until they become devices in the hands of men to wield.  I'd say that the term "science' is technically misused when it's used in the context of being something other than a methodology or a branch of knowledge.  However, it can be argued that science has become institutionalised.

33 minutes ago, Hummin said:

We can start with use of fire, is based on knowledge from science. Mongols used wheels right and arms! 

Yeah what a great time to be a Vikings or Mongolian warrior, plunder,  pillage, rape & slaughter they planned it so is that not early science. 

Hugely beneficial.   Organized religion, on the other hand . . .

11 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Yup.  Skeptic needs to request the mods to change the title of his poll

Nope. Skeptic doesn't "need" to do anything. Skeptic's poll is worded exactly as Skeptic the OP intended. 

 

If Porn doesn't like the wording...then Porn needs to start another poll worded however Porn desires. ????

26 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah what a great time to be a Vikings or Mongolian warrior, plunder,  pillage, rape & slaughter they planned it so is that not early science. 

Early Technology which started with tools & fire & hunting 700k years ago predating modern humans,  rather than science, which accompanied only advanced civilizations starting 5500 years ago.

On 12/26/2021 at 4:18 PM, Cake Monster said:

If it were not for Science, we would still all be living in Caves and eating raw meat.

Bit of a no -brainer question really

And dying at 24 years old...

18 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

  

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

  

5 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

At this moment we're over 91% voting Hugely Beneficial. As I stated earlier in the thread, I would introduce this poll to what I believe to be the longest running thread ever on ThaiVisa/AseanNow. It's "do you believe in god and why?" thread started April 2019 and is still active 32 months on. 

 

My thinking is that there's going to be a sudden rise in Hugely Detrimental numbers, which currently stands at less than 6%. 4 votes.  This should be fun. ????

 

OMG!!  Subjectivity is your yardstick???  Scientists around the world should collectively pen a letter declaring this poll to be a sham!!

 

Snipped right out of context by His disingenuous Majesty, the vainglorious word salad SPIN KING ????!!! 

???? 

Your full post.  Missing context.  Uhm, where?  LOL  You're as giddy as a schoolgirl over the fact that your poll is "proving" that Science is hugely beneficial.  Majority opinion = truth.  What part of the scientific process is that?  LOL

 

Vainglorious?  It doesn't get much better than from your own fingertips.  LOL

  

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

453 pages! and counting, tho the thread's been dead for quite some time IMO. The few hardcore Christians slinked away with heads down and tails between their legs LONG ago. The "mystics" and "spiritualists" ???? were very few but much more persistent, despite also having nothing resembling evidence to bring to the discussion.

 

What surprises me most is that it's even a serious topic in 21st Century!  Regardless, it's always fun using those pesky things like reason, logic, rational thought and skepticism against the superstitious. They also detest being asked to provide another pesky thing known as evidence to back up their wild claims and giant leaps of faith. 

 

Started a Poll here almost 3 years back on belief in god. 71% of respondents answered NO. Personally, thought it would be a bit higher. Have a look...

 

21 minutes ago, newnative said:

Hugely beneficial.   Organized religion, on the other hand . . .

Organized religion have led us to what we are today, good, bad and ugly both in wealth and mentality. 

25 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Nope. Skeptic doesn't "need" to do anything. Skeptic's poll is worded exactly as Skeptic the OP intended. 

 

If Porn doesn't like the wording...then Porn needs to start another poll worded however Porn desires. ????

I'd be careful about perverting someone's user name there, Skeptic.  You've crossed the line with that one.

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Science, logical progression of thoughts, something primitive peoples whom believe in a god/s can't do. Science didn't exist in the world before 1700.

Science certainly existed in all advanced civilizations so from 5500 years ago, evidenced by translated writings re. maths & astronomy. Large Stone Buildings needed Geometry / Maths. Agriculture needed Seasons understanding & Irrigation tech.All Evidenced by Archeological records.

 

Modern Age of Enlightenment (1600+)lead to Scientific Method (1700+).

I guess it depends on perspective...

Science has developed weapons of mass destruction, but did we need them? Science developed many things, but the choice to use them does not always fall to the Scientist.

The Polio vaccine, most would contend is beneficial. The day after pill, the condom, water purification, fire, cooking, is this not all science too? The bouncing bomb, the aeroplane, the missile, all borne by Science...

 

The Romans knew the earth was spherical, probably other 'civilisation's did as well, probably well before them...

9 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

Your full post.  Missing context.  Uhm, where?  LOL  You're as giddy as a schoolgirl over the fact that your poll is "proving" that Science is hugely beneficial.  Majority opinion = truth.  What part of the scientific process is that?  LOL

 

Vainglorious?  It doesn't get much better than from your own fingertips.  LOL

  

 

Science long since proved beneficial 5000 years ago !

Poll here is to get member good/bad split only .

17 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'd be careful about perverting someone's user name there, Skeptic.  You've crossed the line with that one.

What are you on about? It's for brevity. Same as you do with mine. Besides..."Porn" or "Pawn" is a very common nickname. Of course, you already know that and you're just grasping at nonexistent straws...as per your usual disingenuous pot-stirring self. However, if I ever acknowledge you again, will be sure to use FULL username. ????

6 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Science long since proved beneficial 5000 years ago !

Poll here is to get member good/bad split only .

Spot on. 

 

Astronomy is the oldest science, with the first observations of the conducted by early human ancestors. Historical records of astronomical measurements date back as far as Mesopotamia nearly 5000 years ago, with later observations made by the ancient Chinese, Babylonians, and Greeks.

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

453 pages! and counting, tho the thread's been dead for quite some time IMO. The few hardcore Christians slinked away with heads down and tails between their legs LONG ago. The "mystics" and "spiritualists" ???? were very few but much more persistent, despite also having nothing resembling evidence to bring to the discussion.

 

What surprises me most is that it's even a serious topic in 21st Century!  Regardless, it's always fun using those pesky things like reason, logic, rational thought and skepticism against the superstitious. They also detest being asked to provide another pesky thing known as evidence to back up their wild claims and giant leaps of faith. 

 

Started a Poll here almost 3 years back on belief in god. 71% of respondents answered NO. Personally, thought it would be a bit higher. Have a look...

No proof of a big bang.  A theory that's taught as accepted fact, though.

No proof that life began from a concoction of dead, lifeless matter brought together under unknown circumstances and unknown conditions with an unknown catalyst as a spark.  A theory that's taught as accepted fact, though.

No proof that all life evolved from a single life form.  Another theory that's taught as accepted fact.

Now I'm not religious so I wouldn't argue that the world was created in seven days, one of the superstitions I'm sure you're referring to.  Yet when science dreams up explanations regarding creation for which they have no proof but accept as reality then what do you call that?  Scientifically deduced superstition?

Of course science grants itself an exemption from actually providing hard proof by considering a substantial amount of evidence leaning towards that conclusion to be good enough and equal to proof.   Sure!  LOL

You can't have it both ways, Skeptic.  Only through denial can you have it both ways.

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Organized religion have led us to what we are today, good, bad and ugly both in wealth and mentality. 

No, it has not. The human mind has done that entirely.

whatever good religion did, it limited it &  perverted & used it for Power & Control. Held Back Modern Science for 1500 years…..+ gave us Crusades, Inquisition,Arab Jihads,Latin American Indian Slaughter,Fascism Support.

9 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

What are you on about? It's for brevity. Same as you do with mine. Besides..."Porn" or "Pawn" is a very common nickname. Of course, you already know that and you're just grasping at nonexistent straws...as per your usual disingenuous self. ????

You repeated it 3 times in a single sentence.  To claim it's for brevity is bull.  And at no other time ever have you replied to me using my nick.  I've told you before that you might fool others but you ain't getting anything past me.  I'm keeping you honest.  Don't try it again.

3 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

No proof of a big bang.  A theory that's taught as accepted fact, though.

No proof that life began from a concoction of dead, lifeless matter brought together under unknown circumstances and unknown conditions with an unknown catalyst as a spark.  A theory that's taught as accepted fact, though.

No proof that all life evolved from a single life form.  Another theory that's taught as accepted fact.

Now I'm not religious so I wouldn't argue that the world was created in seven days, one of the superstitions I'm sure you're referring to.  Yet when science dreams up explanations regarding creation for which they have no proof but accept as reality then what do you call that?  Scientifically deduced superstition?

Of course science grants itself an exemption from actually providing hard proof by considering a substantial amount of evidence leaning towards that conclusion to be good enough and equal to proof.   Sure!  LOL

You can't have it both ways, Skeptic.  Only through denial can you have it both ways.

Science Always Questioning Expanding Re-examining FACTS.

Evidence & New Information subject to Scientific Method & Leads where it Leads. Big Bang simply the resultant most probable present theory amongst others.

 

This topic is much more controversial and subtle as one would think. Actually the question should be "Is Science used for the benefit of mankind or not ?" For it is the use of knowledge and discoveries which makes it evil or beneficial. And the use is always driven by people themselves.

 

Think nuclear power, or discovery of substances like Botulinomtoxin, the deadliest substance for the human species which may be used for killing millions or for the benefit in medicine. How about Genetic Engineering ? And Artificial Intelligence ? This is a really tricky one if one understands the possible implications. Should we rather avoid exploring the possibilities ?

 

Generally I believe that knowledge is a good thing. But scientific knowledge and inventions alone do not cut it - may even not be beneficial. Science must be complimented by a knowledge of the nature of our existence and derived from that by a deeply felt wish to be of benefit to each other. Then Science is beneficial, too.

35 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

And dying at 24 years old...

When life was “nasty brutal short”…that only ended with NHS after ww2 !

1 minute ago, TropicalGuy said:

Science Always Questioning Expanding Re-examining FACTS.

Evidence & New Information subject to Scientific Method & Leads where it Leads. Big Bang simply the resultant most probable present theory amongst others.

 

I don't disagree.  But all of the theories I mentioned are taught as fact.  Bottom line is that science has accepted the unproven as fact which means all they have is a strong belief.  So how is that different from religious belief?
 

One can't have it both ways.  That's all I'm trying to point out.  Accept the point or not but I've yet to hear a rationale successfully arguing otherwise where the logic holds water.