Why would I want to move my family from a poor country to a rich country?

[ujong]

Aaaah… my first first post in this forum. Greetings all, from sunny Singapore (currently rainy), where I’ve spent the last quarter century - but still very much connected with my homeland, the USA. The change of this forum to ASEAN prompted me to join. 
 

Not sure why this thread is ruffling so many feathers… there are clearly and undeniably pros/cons in every country. The US has some of the best and the worst of many things in this world, there is no disputing that.
 

But…. as an expat we have a big leg up, the world is our oyster — we can take advantage of all the best things the world has to offer.
 

World class education? At least at the college level, there is a pretty compelling argument for the US. My kids will reach college age in a couple of years and I plan move back to the US while they attend so that we can enjoy the lower in-state tuition. 

[Guest Isaanlife]

How do you explain to dumb Americans that it's not all about wages and the quality of life is better in a country like Thailand?

 

Your claim to quality of life in Thailand being better has been FACTUAL proven to be incorrect.

 

Switzerland is #1, Australia is #5, The US is rated 17th and Thailand 69th.

 

According to the facts, there are 68 other countries with a higher quality of life, as Thailand ranks #69.

 

Quantified, factual data, that any competent engineer should understand and not argue with or come up with silly opinions

 

Facts are Facts, your misleading opinion doesn't really matter

 

https://www.numbeo.com/quality-of-life/rankings_by_country.jsp  2021 Mid Year

[Hummin]

19 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Nice list of things that aren't that important.

Better they have a home to sleep in, food on the table and a loving family around them than everything on your list.

For some that is important, and if as a parent you think you have better options for your kids, you will as a good parent do your best for your kids. 

 

My X-wife's kids, where  both got their higher education now, one working already, one still studying and it haven't cost me, or my x-wife a penny. They have been able to support them selves, and study at the same time. Best of all they both have a brighter future, and can choose if they want to go back to Thailand, or work in Europe, or even where ever they want and can get a job!

 

If we lived in Thailand, what would their options been? I left back to my home country because of them, because I knew, I could not give them the best education here. And that was even it was not my kids, and the marriage did not last, I'm still happy about what I did for them!

Edited December 31, 2021 by Hummin

[sirineou]

22 minutes ago, ujongjoe said:

Aaaah… my first first post in this forum. Greetings all, from sunny Singapore (currently rainy), where I’ve spent the last quarter century - but still very much connected with my homeland, the USA. The change of this forum to ASEAN prompted me to join. 
 

Not sure why this thread is ruffling so many feathers… there are clearly and undeniably pros/cons in every country. The US has some of the best and the worst of many things in this world, there is no disputing that.
 

But…. as an expat we have a big leg up, the world is our oyster — we can take advantage of all the best things the world has to offer.
 

World class education? At least at the college level, there is a pretty compelling argument for the US. My kids will reach college age in a couple of years and I plan move back to the US while they attend so that we can enjoy the lower in-state tuition. 

A very reasonable reply. Unfortunately the OP Perhaps by design, framed his thread is a combative, judgmental manner.. 

Welcome to the forum, given your reasonable , well thought out first post , I am sure you will be a positive addition, but you will find out that there are those who post thinly disguised troll threads to raffle feathers,

Which  IMO this OP is what it is.  

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by sirineou

[FritsSikkink]

"Aside from being a world leader in technology, education, marriage equality and cannabis legalization"

You can forget the world leader part at the last 2, trailing by more than a decade.

[473geo]

16 years ago I decided my wife would be more content living in Thailand. This has proved to be the case. We worked together to build a home with a bit of land and cattle that would always provide for my family in the future 

My son is going through the Thai education system, my daughter is thinking about a career. 

It's quite possible in Thailand if your children are polite and  Industrious to obtain at a cost training for a chosen role. 

Indeed my son's current interest in motorcycles prompted a friend let us know he could locate a Saturday job to start training as a mechanic 

GIven that my family could probably survive without working, Thailand provides exactly the options I wish to have available

 

I believe as I sit in the sun, in our shaded outside kitchen area, with a gentle breeze, a wife who spoils me and children who will make their decisions as they negotiate life in Thailand, my decision, although may not work well for all, is working for me ????

 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

55 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Been there, done that, but 80+hr a week.  Still had a great quality of life, just little less time to enjoy it.

 

Along with 2 back to back 12 shifts (7pm-7am) at restaurant on the weekends at 15 yrs old together with working 3 nights a week till 1 am.  All illegal, as didn't even have work papers, and when legal, at 16, (not allowed to work more than 4 hrs a day, or past 7pm), nothing changed.  And teachers in HS used to wonder why I fell asleep in class, if I showed up at all.  Doesn't include the child labor laws I broke since about 10 yrs old. 

 

Ups & downs along the way, 30 something yrs old and living in an unfinished basement, and then later, the opposite, paying more income tax than most working people earned, the few times I hit the top 5% tax brackets.

 

Quality of life didn't change, just had more than enough vs barely enough, sometimes living on CCs.

Only difference with more $$$, bit more comfortable living & more toys.

You were probably ambitious and worked hard. As you say more stuff often doesn't mean more happiness. 

I just like to see a society where even those who do a normal job through their life can live a dignified life. That's tough in countries where the wages are often so low and people such as teachers need second jobs.

I am no communist or leftie  but I like that in Australia those workers in the building industry, for example, get paid well and the property developer can still get rich. As compared to Thailand where the property developer has such low costs and the normal workers struggle. That's where I think the free market alone can lack fairness. 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Adumbration]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My Thai daughter graduated earlier this year and her starting wage is 18kbht/month.

No loan required, the fees and expenses were easily affordable.

 

Not as much as she wanted, but in these days of COVID, it's not so bad.

How many graduates in the UK earn enough to buy a home a year after finishing university?

This is a very very good point.  It is now entirely impossible for anyone to buy a home in the western world without going into eye watering amounts of debt.

 

Here a starter thai home (free standing not condo) can still be had circa 300K to 600K and can be bought with savings....not debt.

 

And of course there are no holding costs for a house in Thailand.  In Australia you now have to borrow 1 million plus dollars to buy a 3 bedroom brick bungalow that looks like a crack house.  And then the council rates on that property and 10-15,000 dollars per year.  So much for so called freehold.

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

16 years ago I decided my wife would be more content living in Thailand. This has proved to be the case. We worked together to build a home with a bit of land and cattle that would always provide for my family in the future 

My son is going through the Thai education system, my daughter is thinking about a career. 

It's quite possible in Thailand if your children are polite and  Industrious to obtain at a cost training for a chosen role. 

Indeed my son's current interest in motorcycles prompted a friend let us know he could locate a Saturday job to start training as a mechanic 

GIven that my family could probably survive without working, Thailand provides exactly the options I wish to have available

 

I believe as I sit in the sun, in our shaded outside kitchen area, with a gentle breeze, a wife who spoils me and children who will make their decisions as they negotiate life in Thailand, my decision, although may not work well for all, is working for me ????

 

Of course it is possible to build a future for your family and your kids future. 

 

My point is, I will rather spend my pension found and work where it is easy for my to make enought for a good life, than trying to do it here! I will always have options, no matter what, but If I die, I know they are better of there than here, and have choices. If no kids I choose here. 

[BritManToo]

43 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

Switzerland is #1, Australia is #5, The US is rated 17th and Thailand 69th.

According to the facts, there are 68 other countries with a higher quality of life, as Thailand ranks #69.

Quantified, factual data, that any competent engineer should understand and not argue with or come up with silly opinions

I reject the data, vales and morality espoused by a failing civilisation.

A place where children put their parents into care homes then forget about them.

A place where women reject their husbands and asset strip them, then poison their children against their father.

 

It's a world and a lifestyle I don't want me or my children to live in. 

But if you like it, you live in it.

[stigar]

I brougth my exwife and our 2 kids to norway.She earning good money here.The kids get a good education.My son 15 and my daugther 17 working beside the school and make their own pocketmoney.They all get a good pension when they retired.Its alot more benefits living here then in thailand.

[Guest Isaanlife]

1 hour ago, couchpotato said:

It is evident that living in 'rural Isaan' as you claim, has scrambled your thoughts somewhat, and obviously you are on some crusade that is relatively meaningless to the rest of us. You should really be contemplating why you seem so lost.......

But it is comedic reading your ramblings.

No not lost.

 

I take offense, really, with people that post complete lies and try to mislead others with no facts or evidence.

 

Never could stand liars in the West, here is no different

 

Then when challenged, keep telling more stories and more lies.

 

What ever happened to people telling the truth?

 

The post was quality of life in Thailand is better than US

 

According the facts that is not true with US 17th and Thailand 69th in a number of different grading categories, from quality of life, to  air pollution to traffic to safety.

 

Facts were posted, the lies continue

 

My life is rural Isaan is exactly what I planned and I think 99%+ of expats could not tolerate my rural life. (38KM to nearest 7/11). It is an extremely poor area. Many folks still don't have running water and live with nothing.

 

No expats around anywhere with their preposterous stories and pension for making things up

 

We have lots of land, farm vehicles, car and a pickup truck, motorcycles, house, money to travel anywhere, exactly the way I planned. Definitely very peaceful and not lost.

 

Very safe as well. Never, ever have to worry about safety. BIL and many male relatives make sure I am safe.

 

My circle is my wife and her extended family which numbers over 100 in the same area.

 

If anything, I am lost why so many foreigners move to Thailand and lie, lie, lie about everything?

 

You chose this life, why do you have to lie and make believe you are someone or in a better situation than you are?

 

No need for Tesco where I live.

 

We farm the land and live off the land. Not for everyone.

 

Slaughter pigs for pork. (After the first one, I do not attend these any more)

 

#Rural-Isaan (Sorry not lost, but certainly enjoy showing and telling the truth)

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Sheryl
removed photos

[Adumbration]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

You were probably ambitious and worked hard. As you say more stuff often doesn't mean more happiness. 

I just like to see a society where even those who do a normal job through their life can live a dignified life. That's tough in countries where the wages are often so low and people such as teachers need second jobs.

I am no communist or leftie  but I like that in Australia those workers in the building industry, for example, get paid well and the property developer can still get rich. As compared to Thailand where the property developer has such low costs and the normal workers struggle. That's where I think the free market alone can lack fairness. 

 

Only flaw in your argument here is that the poor chap working in the building industry in Australia will be using 70% of his take home pay to service his mortgage.  And of course he could also be paying child support at a (pre tax) rate of 32% for the first kid and 48% for the second.  Rates 10-15k per year, electricity 2k per quarter, water 1k per quarter.  Car registration and compulsory insurance 2K per year.  And if Gazza the bricklayer wants a girl for the night well that is going to run him 1-2K as well.  Oh and what if Gaz is a smoker....what is a pack of fags in Oz nowadays 50-60 dollars.  I don't smoke but one of my Aussie expats mates does and yesterday he told me he buys black market malaysian smokes by the carton (10 packs..200 fags) for 300baht a carton.

[Adumbration]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I reject the data, vales and morality espoused by a failing civilisation.

A place where children put their parents into care homes then forget about them.

A place where women reject their husbands and asset strip them, then poison their children against their father.

 

It's a world and a lifestyle I don't want me or my children to live in. 

But if you like it, you live in it.

You forgot to mention freedom....to do as you please....

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, amexpat said:

Dumb Americans are the ones who pay a $10 fee and $10 tip 

Minimum wages is 7,5 USD an hour, and many of those who work, would not survive without tips! 

[Adumbration]

16 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I reject the data, vales and morality espoused by a failing civilisation.

A place where children put their parents into care homes then forget about them.

A place where women reject their husbands and asset strip them, then poison their children against their father.

 

It's a world and a lifestyle I don't want me or my children to live in. 

But if you like it, you live in it.

I don't have kids but if I did I would want to home school.  I bought a nice little house here in a tidy flower filled street  in January this year.  It is 2 minutes ride from a stunning beach.  I paid 270K with the seller paying all tax and transfer costs.  I have lived here now for nearly a year and it has been lovely with the exception of covid related issues.  I have zero land rates.  I have great town water (they just built a new pump station) with good pressure.  I have a three stage filter and it works fine to produce drinking water from my town water supply.  My last monthly water bill was 92 baht.  My last power bill was 621 baht.  The chanote is in my girlfriends name and I have a life usufruct stamped on the back of the deed in my name (cost was 75 baht at land office) My girl has a will at the ampur leaving the house to me if she dies.  Where in Australia could I live 2 minutes from the beach with zero council rates and a freehold home that cost me about 12k AUD?

 

This morning I went fishing and caught 6kg of fresh squid.

 

The girls is just making tempura as I type...

Edited December 31, 2021 by Adumbration

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

(I'm British but spent most of my adult life outside the UK)

Such naivety in this topic. It's all about money combined with good life choices. I realised long ago that it doesn't matter where you are as long as you have money and good family. About education, if you're so blinkered to think you can get a good education on some inner city sink estate in somewhere like the UK you should live a little. Money buys you good education over there, money buys you a good education in Thailand too, it's no different. Money buys you health, happiness, education and freedom, anywhere. If you don't have money all you have is idioms to make you feel better about how shjt your life is.

[Gecko123]

15 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

No not lost.

 

I take offense, really, with people that post complete lies and try to mislead others with no facts or evidence.

 

Never could stand liars in the West, here is no different

 

Then when challenged, keep telling more stories and more lies.

 

What ever happened to people telling the truth?

 

The post was quality of life in Thailand is better than US

 

According the facts that is not true with US 17th and Thailand 69th in a number of different grading categories, from quality of life, to  air pollution to traffic to safety.

 

Facts were posted, the lies continue

 

My life is rural Isaan is exactly what I planned and I think 99%+ of expats could not tolerate my rural life. (38KM to nearest 7/11). It is an extremely poor area. Many folks still don't have running water and live with nothing.

 

No expats around anywhere with their preposterous stories and pension for making things up

 

We have lots of land, farm vehicles, car and a pickup truck, motorcycles, house, money to travel anywhere, exactly the way I planned. Definitely very peaceful and not lost.

 

Very safe as well. Never, ever have to worry about safety. BIL and many male relatives make sure I am safe.

 

My circle is my wife and her extended family which numbers over 100 in the same area.

 

If anything, I am lost why so many foreigners move to Thailand and lie, lie, lie about everything?

 

You chose this life, why do you have to lie and make believe you are someone or in a better situation than you are?

 

No need for Tesco where I live.

 

We farm the land and live off the land. Not for everyone.

 

Slaughter pigs for pork. (After the first one, I do not attend these any more)

 

#Rural-Isaan (Sorry not lost, but certainly enjoy showing and telling the truth)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gotta tip my hat to you, brother. Looks like you've gone full Colonel Kurtz. That's immersed. Respect.

[Adumbration]

23 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

No not lost.

 

I take offense, really, with people that post complete lies and try to mislead others with no facts or evidence.

 

Never could stand liars in the West, here is no different

 

Then when challenged, keep telling more stories and more lies.

 

What ever happened to people telling the truth?

 

The post was quality of life in Thailand is better than US

 

According the facts that is not true with US 17th and Thailand 69th in a number of different grading categories, from quality of life, to  air pollution to traffic to safety.

 

Facts were posted, the lies continue

 

My life is rural Isaan is exactly what I planned and I think 99%+ of expats could not tolerate my rural life. (38KM to nearest 7/11). It is an extremely poor area. Many folks still don't have running water and live with nothing.

 

No expats around anywhere with their preposterous stories and pension for making things up

 

We have lots of land, farm vehicles, car and a pickup truck, motorcycles, house, money to travel anywhere, exactly the way I planned. Definitely very peaceful and not lost.

 

Very safe as well. Never, ever have to worry about safety. BIL and many male relatives make sure I am safe.

 

My circle is my wife and her extended family which numbers over 100 in the same area.

 

If anything, I am lost why so many foreigners move to Thailand and lie, lie, lie about everything?

 

You chose this life, why do you have to lie and make believe you are someone or in a better situation than you are?

 

No need for Tesco where I live.

 

We farm the land and live off the land. Not for everyone.

 

Slaughter pigs for pork. (After the first one, I do not attend these any more)

 

#Rural-Isaan (Sorry not lost, but certainly enjoy showing and telling the truth)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't like liar's huh. Me either.  Please explain your comment "WE" have lots of land....

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

(I'm British but spent most of my adult life outside the UK)

Such naivety in this topic. It's all about money combined with good life choices. I realised long ago that it doesn't matter where you are as long as you have money and good family. About education, if you're so blinkered to think you can get a good education on some inner city sink estate in somewhere like the UK you should live a little. Money buys you good education over there, money buys you a good education in Thailand too, it's no different. Money buys you health, happiness, education and freedom, anywhere. If you don't have money all you have is idioms to make you feel better about how shjt your life is.

If you don't have money, don't get kids?

 

The world is not only UK, USA or Thailand! There are better options for families with kids in school age!

 

Another point, if you have kids in Thailand with a Thai lady and you brake up or divorce the mother? If so, which country give you the best option? 

[Adumbration]

7 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

(I'm British but spent most of my adult life outside the UK)

Such naivety in this topic. It's all about money combined with good life choices. I realised long ago that it doesn't matter where you are as long as you have money and good family. About education, if you're so blinkered to think you can get a good education on some inner city sink estate in somewhere like the UK you should live a little. Money buys you good education over there, money buys you a good education in Thailand too, it's no different. Money buys you health, happiness, education and freedom, anywhere. If you don't have money all you have is idioms to make you feel better about how shjt your life is.

So it is just about money huh?  What about value for money?

[Guest Isaanlife]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I reject the data, vales and morality espoused by a failing civilisation.

A place where children put their parents into care homes then forget about them.

A place where women reject their husbands and asset strip them, then poison their children against their father.

 

It's a world and a lifestyle I don't want me or my children to live in. 

But if you like it, you live in it.

Everyone on this earth has their own choices and beliefs how to live their OWN lives.

 

Actions have consequences.

 

This includes both parties to a marriage.

 

Everything you mentioned also happens right here in Thailand.

 

Never see any foreigners divorced and lose everything they own?

 

Never seen an elder banged up and forgotten?

 

Never heard of Thai kids killing their parents for money or land?

 

Your world is what you make of it and defined by your own actions.

 

No, the world is not perfect, how you do with it is entirely up to you.

 

Each individual will have their own choice how to live their lives.

 

Your choices are up to you and there is NO one to blame for any negative consequences.

 

 

 

 

 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

4 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

So it is just about money huh?  What about value for money?

LOL. The wealthy don't care about value. Why should they?

 

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Another point, if you have kids in Thailand with a Thai lady and you brake up or divorce the mother? If so, which country give you the best option?

As I said, it's about money AND good family/life choices. Did you read my post or are you just imposing your own impression of it?

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Led Lolly Yellow Lolly

[Adumbration]

Just now, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

LOL. Rich people don't care about value. Why should they?

Ah...because they are not idiots...

 

Warren Buffet is rich.  Are you suggesting that he does not care about value?

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

I'm saying all that matters is money, good family and good choices. Value is irrelevant.

[Adumbration]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Another point, if you have kids in Thailand with a Thai lady and you brake up or divorce the mother? If so, which country give you the best option? 

Why in the name of God would you get married in Thailand?

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

LOL. Rich people don't care about value. Why should they?

 

As I said, it's about money AND good family/life choices. Did you read my post or are you just imposing your own impression of it?

 

 

 

What you think you are writing is not the same as you point out more clear, than the other! Yes It seems like money is the most important in your opinion, even you mention family and choices! 

 

Cool down, it is a new year coming, enjoy your life,

[Fat is a type of crazy]

33 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Only flaw in your argument here is that the poor chap working in the building industry in Australia will be using 70% of his take home pay to service his mortgage.  And of course he could also be paying child support at a (pre tax) rate of 32% for the first kid and 48% for the second.  Rates 10-15k per year, electricity 2k per quarter, water 1k per quarter.  Car registration and compulsory insurance 2K per year.  And if Gazza the bricklayer wants a girl for the night well that is going to run him 1-2K as well.  Oh and what if Gaz is a smoker....what is a pack of fags in Oz nowadays 50-60 dollars.  I don't smoke but one of my Aussie expats mates does and yesterday he told me he buys black market malaysian smokes by the carton (10 packs..200 fags) for 300baht a carton.

Your figures seem awfully high. No way mortgage should be that high with current interest rates. Though it is tough to buy now. I live in an average house and rates are $3000 which is a bit high because I am in semi bushland and fewer properties to share the rates. Most rates in Melbourne should be about that or are less. Electricity $250 a quarter,  water $250 a quarter, gas $250 a quarter,  car registration and insurance together are about $1100, for 12 months. Smokes are expensive. Big taxes. 

Google says you pay 12 per cent of gross income for one and 16 per cent for two. Sounds not too bad but I suppose after tax it is difficult but it's not a tax it's going to the kids. You hear the opposite in Thailand where father's are dead beat dads and the mother is left with baby and has to certain jobs to get by.  

Edited December 31, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Adumbration]

Just now, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I'm saying all that matters is money, good family and good choices. Value is irrelevant.

You should post the Quote "Value is irrelevant" under your avatar.  

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Adumbration said:

Why in the name of God would you get married in Thailand?

If I have kids, and my intentions is still to be together, I will marry her, not necessary in Thailand.