7 hours ago, sungod said:

And there are people such as you who manipulate figures and just ignore simple facts.

 

 

You posted the same aggregate statistics in the ‘other thread’ where everyone disagreed with you. 

 

IF you think that a guy in his 40’s, who only rides in the day time, never while drunk, with a Shoei helmet and full riding gear, without speeding, no jumping lights, defensive riding and has over 20 years of driving experience in Thailand faces the same risk as a 20 year old drunk, street racing on skinny tires without a helmet, then you do not understand the difference between aggregate statistic and specific risk profiles. 

 

The argument I am presenting is that the high road fatality rates are not representative of the risks ‘many’ of us expats face when riding on Thailand's roads. 

 

That does not mean the risk of riding a motorcycle in Thailand is less than at home, it does not mean that the risk of riding a motorcycle is less than driving a car here - it does mean that the ‘we’ (many westerners) who ride with extreme caution are at the ‘thin’ end of the risk spectrum compared to the majority of motorcycle riders in Thailand. 

 

You continue to struggle with this very point.

 

 

5 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Well, nothing 'new' about 'news' of someone dying on a 125cc or smaller scooter.

 

But 'Big Bike' .... whoa ... that's a headliner that will get the most bored to peak at .... click bait comes to mind.

Agreed......   the word ‘Big Bike’ always kicks of the debate of what a ‘big bike’ really is... 

 

We haven’t quite had that yet - in Thailand its just a juvenile assumption often for bikes which aren’t considered scooters or have a displacement of >400cc....   This statement alone is usually sufficient to kick off the comments such as ‘anything less than 600cc is not a real bike, I learned on a Hayabusa’ (hence my pi$$ take earlier)....

 

One thing for sure..... the words ‘Big’ and ‘Bike’ used together in any headline has triggered a Pavlovian response.... we ‘click’.... 

 

 

Big bike, little bike, they are all death traps on two wheels. I would never get on a bike in Thailand.

 

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You posted the same aggregate statistics in the ‘other thread’ where everyone disagreed with you. 

 

IF you think that a guy in his 40’s, who only rides in the day time, never while drunk, with a Shoei helmet and full riding gear, without speeding, no jumping lights, defensive riding and has over 20 years of driving experience in Thailand faces the same risk as a 20 year old drunk, street racing on skinny tires without a helmet, then you do not understand the difference between aggregate statistic and specific risk profiles. 

 

The argument I am presenting is that the high road fatality rates are not representative of the risks ‘many’ of us expats face when riding on Thailand's roads. 

 

That does not mean the risk of riding a motorcycle in Thailand is less than at home, it does not mean that the risk of riding a motorcycle is less than driving a car here - it does mean that the ‘we’ (many westerners) who ride with extreme caution are at the ‘thin’ end of the risk spectrum compared to the majority of motorcycle riders in Thailand. 

 

You continue to struggle with this very point.

 

 

Was going to ask you what tint your glasses were, but it seems you wear blinkers. I suppose if you keep your head in the sand, everything will be fine.

 

 

'Thai roads are among the most deadly in the world and most of the fatal accidents involve motorcycles. A recent study found that 80% of motorcycle accidents are related to cars cutting in front of oncoming traffic.'

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/most-motorcycle-accidents-in-thailand-involved-cars-cutting-in-front-of-traffic

So, why do so many fools ride with absolutely no protection ? Both Thai and expat ? Is it big ? Is it Cool ? Is it clever ? Or none of the above ? 

 

I know which answer I would pick. 

12 minutes ago, sungod said:

Was going to ask you what tint your glasses were, but it seems you wear blinkers. I suppose if you keep your head in the sand, everything will be fine.

 

'Thai roads are among the most deadly in the world and most of the fatal accidents involve motorcycles. A recent study found that 80% of motorcycle accidents are related to cars cutting in front of oncoming traffic.'

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/most-motorcycle-accidents-in-thailand-involved-cars-cutting-in-front-of-traffic

Riding and driving here 25 years - thats the tint.

 

But you still do not understand that the ‘aggregate national statistic’ is not representative of individual risk. 

 

I’ll try to explain - You live in Thailand which has 25,000 road deaths per year.

Thus, people in Thailand are far more likely to die in a road accident than in the UK. 

 

If you do not ride a motorcycle in Thailand 75% of those deaths are not relevant to you....

But what if people are telling you that there are 25,000 road deaths in Thailand so you are at greater risk ??? (this is what you are telling me) - you’d argue that 75% is not relevant to you !...

 

If do not ride in busses,  minivans, lorrys etc the numbers are further reduced. 

 

The risk profile YOU face is based on individual behaviour and not the aggregate nationwide statistic.

 

Is your risk of dying in a car accident reduced because you wear a seatbelt while most others do not ?

If so, your risk profile is already below average for car users.

 

 

Question for you sungod: 

When I ride (defensively, full face helmet, in the day time, 100% sober, not taking any chances) do you think I am  in the same ‘risk bracket’ as a 15 year old school kid or a 25 year old street racer, or someone on an unlit bike at night ??????

 

 

No one has ever denied the aggregate statistic - it is widely accepted: 25,000 road traffic deaths per year in Thailand. 75% of those are motorcyclists. 

 

Of those 75% how many were not wearing helmets ?

Of those 75% how many were speeding ?

Of those 75% how many were jumping lights ?

Of those 75% how many were drunk ?

Of those 75% how many were riding at night time ?

Of those 75% how many were riding at night time with out lights ?

Of those 75% how many were not riding with caution ?

 

 

You are blindly applying an aggregate statistic to ‘everyone’ who rides a motorcycle - this does not present an accurate representation of individual risk.

 

This highlights how you do not understand how a nationwide statistic is not representative of individual risk. 

 

You have failed to think critically about this... take a step back and start thinking instead of blindly quoting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Golden Triangle said:

So, why do so many fools ride with absolutely no protection ? Both Thai and expat ? Is it big ? Is it Cool ? Is it clever ? Or none of the above ? 

 

I know which answer I would pick. 

It's pretty stupid...  but it also depends on convenience and habit. 

 

The idea of riding without a hemet and in flip-flops is utterly alien to me.... yet there is scope for a little compromise from ATGATT depending on location and destination. 

 

----------

 

 

In Bangkok - IF riding down to a nearby 7-11, or somewhere on the sub-soi’s... I ride with my Open face (AGV) Helmet, Trainers (sneakers), Gloves (never anything less than this).

 

IF my journey in Bangkok is going to take me on a main road such as Petchaburi, Rama IV or Sukhumvit etc, I’ll ride with Full Face (Shoei), citi riding boots, Rev’it Jacket with back protector, Gloves)

But, I’ll sometimes not wear riding pants if its too hot.

 

IF going any further from my place and on main roads, I’ll wear full gear.

 

I also, will not ride a motorcycle that does not have ABS (roads are too inconsistent, polished, greasy and slippy under heavy breaking).

 

 

That said: when I stayed in Phuket I felt comfortable riding around in Just an Open Face helmet, Gloves and Trainers.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It's pretty stupid...  but it also depends on convenience and habit. 

 

The idea of riding without a hemet and in flip-flops is utterly alien to me.... yet there is scope for a little compromise from ATGATT depending on location and destination. 

 

----------

 

 

In Bangkok - IF riding down to a nearby 7-11, or somewhere on the sub-soi’s... I ride with my Open face (AGV) Helmet, Trainers (sneakers), Gloves (never anything less than this).

 

IF my journey in Bangkok is going to take me on a main road such as Petchaburi, Rama IV or Sukhumvit etc, I’ll ride with Full Face (Shoei), citi riding boots, Rev’it Jacket with back protector, Gloves)

But, I’ll sometimes not wear riding pants if its too hot.

 

IF going any further from my place and on main roads, I’ll wear full gear.

 

I also, will not ride a motorcycle that does not have ABS (roads are too inconsistent, polished, greasy and slippy under heavy breaking).

 

 

That said: when I stayed in Phuket I felt comfortable riding around in Just an Open Face helmet, Gloves and Trainers.

 

 

 

 

On the record: I don't ride a bike in Thailand, and I haven't ridden one for a few years now, I have had a bike licence for over 50 years, my answer wasn't aimed at you and you replied exactly how any sane person would, I just don't understand why someone would ride without the minimum protection ie a helmet, I wouldn't drive without a seatbelt and I don't understand why anybody else would either but it's a funny old world and no doubt someone will claim that's it's their inalienable right ????

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Agreed......   the word ‘Big Bike’ always kicks of the debate of what a ‘big bike’ really is... 

 

We haven’t quite had that yet - in Thailand its just a juvenile assumption often for bikes which aren’t considered scooters or have a displacement of >400cc....  

It's more about economics, and practicality, here in SEA.  Since few larger than 150ish cc are really made here, and importing jacks up the price so much, it should be Big 'Priced' bike crashed.  

 

I thought about getting a Honda 750, till realized the price here vs back home, and beside killing myself, wouldn't spend that much here for 2 wheels just for spite / principle ... ????

 

Besides, riding a larger bike defeats half the reason for having 2 wheels.  Any further than 75 ish kms, and I'm taking the car anyway.  Those days of 6 hour rides / outings, are way in the past.  Comfy on a 900, but nothing less and not now.  After an hour now, and I want off.

 

Actually surprised how much I'm enjoying the e-scooter around town and haven't got bored with it yet.  Helps having the dog with me, and actually bought that model specifically for her.  Sold a perfectly good Wave 125, as rarely drove it.

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

It's more about economics, and practicality, here in SEA.  Since few larger than 150ish cc are really made here, and importing jacks up the price so much, it should be Big 'Priced' bike crashed.  

 

I thought about getting a Honda 750, till realized the price here vs back home, and beside killing myself, wouldn't spend that much here for 2 wheels just for spite / principle ... ????

 

Besides, riding a larger bike defeats half the reason for having 2 wheels.  Any further than 75 ish kms, and I'm taking the car anyway.  Those days of 6 hour rides / outings, are way in the past.  Comfy on a 900, but nothing less and not now.  After an hour now, and I want off.

 

Actually surprised how much I'm enjoying the e-scooter around town and haven't got bored with it yet.  Helps having the dog with me, and actually bought that model specifically for her.  Sold a perfectly good Wave 125, as rarely drove it.

Think you need to brush up on motorcycles that are produced in LOS.

 

Not long ago I was talking to a Thai lad about his Triumph 900cc bike, which was made in LOS.

BMW, Ducati, Harley Davison, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha etc, all provide a choice of bike.

 

But when old age creeps up on you, no doubt an E-scoot is probably your best bet....????.......????

One tragic death, nobody else injured, probably one of 50 road deaths that day, but what's the bet it revives the plans for a 'Big Bike Licence'?

1 minute ago, Kinnock said:

One tragic death, nobody else injured, probably one of 50 road deaths that day, but what's the bet it revives the plans for a 'Big Bike Licence'?

What, a knee-jerk reaction by Thai authorities Thailand ??...   No.... never !!! ????