Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[The Hammer2021]

1 hour ago, sead said:

 

There is a lot of truth in what you say.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/02/britain-got-it-wrong-on-covid-long-lockdown-did-more-harm-than-good-says-scientist

[JayBird]

6 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

That is what is being said about the vaccine immunity, now. Didn't make that clear and plain when they first rolled out those vaccines.

I can not speak to what 'they' said, as I'm not sure exactly who you are referring to.

 

It is an established fact that no vaccine ever created will eradicate 100% of all viruses and prevent even one particle from getting a foot hold in you.  This is now how vaccines work.  Anyone who suggested was this was not being accurate in this regard.

 

The purpose of the Vaccine is primarily two fold:

 

1) To help protect you (reduce the time you are sick, reduce the likelihood of death or hospitalization).

2) To protect society (by reducing the time you are sick, and therefore your viral load, it reduces the amount you will transmit to others).

 

I am unsure where you get your information on how vaccines work, but this is a well researched topic going back well over a century.  If you are keen, I would suggest books on the topics of Infectious Diseases, Microbiology, and Immunology.

 

It's actually quite an interesting topic, and once you work your way through the books, it becomes increasingly obvious why things are as they are.

 

[The Hammer2021]

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

[pedro01]

4 minutes ago, JayBird said:

I can not speak to what 'they' said, as I'm not sure exactly who you are referring to.

 

It is an established fact that no vaccine ever created will eradicate 100% of all viruses and prevent even one particle from getting a foot hold in you.  This is now how vaccines work.  Anyone who suggested was this was not being accurate in this regard.

 

The purpose of the Vaccine is primarily two fold:

 

1) To help protect you (reduce the time you are sick, reduce the likelihood of death or hospitalization).

2) To protect society (by reducing the time you are sick, and therefore your viral load, it reduces the amount you will transmit to others).

 

I am unsure where you get your information on how vaccines work, but this is a well researched topic going back well over a century.  If you are keen, I would suggest books on the topics of Infectious Diseases, Microbiology, and Immunology.

 

It's actually quite an interesting topic, and once you work your way through the books, it becomes increasingly obvious why things are as they are.

 

You took the Polio vaccine, you didnt get polio. Same for smallpox.

 

This stuff about vaccines ensuring you dont get as sick as you might have - this came out when they realized they dont prevent infection. I dont buy it.

 

So even these vaccines were billed as prevention. Then we needed 2, then 3.

 

Yours is a revisionist version of "how vaccines work". 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, ThLT said:

According to a study published in The Lancet, one of the most respected scientific journals in the world, vaccines are only around 13% more protective against infection/transmission:

 

What is the vaccine effect on reducing transmission in the context of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant? - The Lancet Infectious Diseases

 

So whether you are anti or pro-vaccine, this whole charade/witch hunt is entirely based on emotion, rather than rational thought and scientific fact.

 

52 minutes ago, ThLT said:

The study is right there. Why not support your claim with a quote? ???? Is what you said even in the study? ????

EDIT: Can't find it. You made that up yourself? ????

 

Seriously?  Did you miss the sentence "All breakthrough infections were mild, and no hospitilisations and deaths were observed."?

 

Regarding my claim the study shows unvaccinated people were one and a half times more likely to get infected, all that is required is simple arithmetic.  38% of 232 "contacts" is 88 contacts.   25% of 232 contacts is 58 contacts.  One and a half times 58 is 87, so the unvaccinated were slightly more than one and a half times more likely to get infected.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

Reading your posts makes me even more concerned about getting vaccinated 

Makes me concerned about the harmful effects it may have 

[TropicalGuy]

4 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

the innocent children of these fools are surely protected by laws requiring child vaccinations just like the children of other cults denied life- saving blood transfusions and other such medical treatments ?

[heybruce]

55 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The "Witch hunt " is by the Government/Society , forcing people to get vaccinated or they lose their rights and freedoms and their ability to function normally in society.

   The people protesting are those wanting to keep their right to self determination and freedom of choice  

If the protests were about people's freedom to gamble, use marijuana or engage in commercial sex I'd be sympathetic to their cause.  However since they are protesting for the right to spread a dangerous disease...

[heybruce]

48 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People are concerned about the effects that the vaccine has on their body , there have been numerous reports of young healthy people getting vaccinated and then suffering heart problems and having to have hospital treatment and dying.

  That is not "anti science superstation supported by the church" , they are genuine concerns about the effects of a new untested vaccine which could potentially kill then 

I have read a small number of reports of young people having minor heart inflamation after vaccination, which passes in a few days.  Can you provide links to stories about people being hospitalized and dying due to vaccinations?

[The Hammer2021]

15 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

You took the Polio vaccine, you didnt get polio. Same for smallpox.

 

This stuff about vaccines ensuring you dont get as sick as you might have - this came out when they realized they dont prevent infection. I dont buy it.

 

So even these vaccines were billed as prevention. Then we needed 2, then 3.

 

Yours is a revisionist version of "how vaccines work". 

You have a point but omit other vaccines that function differently  such as the flu vaccine

[ThLT]

16 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

The serious flaw in your example is that the measles vaccine does protect against transmission and also infection. Not COVID vaccines. So your argument (and extremist point of view) doesn't have a leg to stand on.

[The Hammer2021]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I have read a small number of reports of young people having minor heart inflamation after vaccination, which passes in a few days.  Can you provide links to stories about people being hospitalized and dying due to vaccinations?

The  links would be to FB, YT and the general  gutter of disinformation aimed at the credulous

[heybruce]

41 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

Breakthrough????

 

What a ludicrous word that is. It makes it sound like a minority.

 

My wife picked it up from a pub  round the corner. Every single person there that night got it. Staff and customers.

 

Vaccine didnt help prevent anyone getting Omicron.

 

What we need is therapy. Vaccines have failed us.

How many of the vaccinated people needed hospitalization or died?  According to the US Center for Disease Control, unvaccinated people are 53 times more likely to die of a Covid infection than people vaccinated with a booster shot.
 

"During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

If the protests were about people's freedom to gamble, use marijuana or engage in commercial sex I'd be sympathetic to their cause.  However since they are protesting for the right to spread a dangerous disease...

You have mistakenly been listening to what Biden says .

Biden stated that vaccinated people cannot spread the virus .

Fact checkers found that statement to be "Mostly false"

 

 

[pedro01]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

How many of the vaccinated people needed hospitalization or died?  According to the US Center for Disease Control, unvaccinated people are 53 times more likely to die of a Covid infection than people vaccinated with a booster shot.
 

"During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

At this point, the story has changed so many times, I dont buy it.

 

The only constant in all this has been the defense of the vaccines. As they fail in one way, claims arise that they work in another. Its been bizarre..

 

Have none of you wondered why the narrative is all about vaccines and not treatment?

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I have read a small number of reports of young people having minor heart inflamation after vaccination, which passes in a few days.  Can you provide links to stories about people being hospitalized and dying due to vaccinations?

The official reason for death is "natural causes" and its just coincidental that they got vaccinated just prior to their untimely deaths 

[TropicalGuy]

2 minutes ago, ThLT said:

The serious flaw in your example is that the measles vaccine does protect against transmission and also infection. Not COVID vaccines. So your argument (and extremist point of view) doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Nonsense. Covid Vax a successful maximum effort, using cutting edge science, to stop or reduce serious infection and thus transmission.

[FalangKino]

27 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

What a sociopath. 

[heybruce]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You have mistakenly been listening to what Biden says .

Biden stated that vaccinated people cannot spread the virus .

Fact checkers found that statement to be "Mostly false"

That has nothing to do with my post.  Was your reply meant for a different post?

 

I am aware that vaccinated people can still get a Covid infection and spread it to others.  However they are much less likely to get infected and will not be infectious for as long.  So vaccination does reduce the spread of the virus.

 

It's analogous to how sober drivers can cause injury and death in auto accidents, but are much less likely to do so than drunk drivers.  For that reason I'm not opposed to all driving, just drunk driving.

Edited February 4, 2022 by heybruce

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

We have to live with the unvaccinated just as we have to live with drunk drivers but we need a strategy to control, contain and educate them. In parts of New York there has been a resurgence  of Measles due to the refusal of a superstitious religious  minority  group. They can not and must no be allowed to endanger more enlightened and cooperative people in their area.

I had Measles when I was a kid ...... itchy for a week then gone.

[ThLT]

35 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Seriously?  Did you miss the sentence "All breakthrough infections were mild, and no hospitilisations and deaths were observed."?

So? That just shows that the vaccines help protect against becoming seriously ill or death. Which I agree with and which has been proven.

 

Nothing to do with transmission and infection.

 

35 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Regarding my claim the study shows unvaccinated people were one and a half times more likely to get infected, all that is required is simple arithmetic.  38% of 232 "contacts" is 88 contacts.   25% of 232 contacts is 58 contacts.  One and a half times 58 is 87, so the unvaccinated were slightly more than one and a half times more likely to get infected.

Your math is all wrong. ???? It's already a proportion. You can't take a proportion and then do a second proportion. ????

 

Rate of infection in The Lancet study was 38% for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated. That's a 13% difference. Which is an insignificantly small difference.

 

Exactly like the study says:

 

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That has nothing to do with my post.  Was your reply meant for a different post?

I did mean that vaccinated people can still spread the virus , which was in reply to your post suggesting it is unvaccinated people who are spreading the virus 

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Nonsense. Covid Vax a successful maximum effort, using cutting edge science, to stop or reduce serious infection and thus transmission.

Do explain then why Israel has 98 % of its population vaccinated and yesterday had its highest daily death rate from the virus ?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

At this point, the story has changed so many times, I dont buy it.

 

The only constant in all this has been the defense of the vaccines. As they fail in one way, claims arise that they work in another. Its been bizarre..

 

Have none of you wondered why the narrative is all about vaccines and not treatment?

You reject current studies based on objective analysis of actual cases because some people have been wrong in the past?

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Seriously?  Did you miss the sentence "All breakthrough infections were mild, and no hospitilisations and deaths were observed."?

Did we not all read about the 'Hero doctor' that died from COVID in the UK.

Fully vaccinated, not old, not previously sick ......... dead.

I guess the Lancet doesn't keep track of the deaths of their own doctors.

[ThLT]

41 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Right. as it’s really “extreme” to believe in science, reason, rationality and to reject “educated” fools who’ve forgotten how to identity & process facts. 

I'm pro-vaccine (like you). Yet the things you've said in this thread are in fact extreme, not scientific and not rational.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by ThLT

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

At this point, the story has changed so many times, I dont buy it.

 

The only constant in all this has been the defense of the vaccines. As they fail in one way, claims arise that they work in another. Its been bizarre..

 

Have none of you wondered why the narrative is all about vaccines and not treatment?

New variants have emerged that changed the effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing as much transmission as in earlier strains. However they've retained their effectiveness in kicking in the B & T cells to a large extent.

 

Nobody could have predicted the new Omicrion variant with its vaccine evasion capabilities.

 

Treatments are rapidly being developed with many now being administered, its not all about vaccines now that's false. Together with the vaccines these treatments are allowing some countires to already get back to normal.

 

Anti vaxxers complain of their rights and freedoms....lol

 

What I find ironic, its because of all the vaccines that have been administered that countries like Denmark are getting all restrictions lifted for "everyone" including those not vaccinated.

 

Thanks to those of us that in my opinion made the right choice to get vaccinated, it is this majority that is helping us win this battle.

 

 

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

What other vaccine given to people advertises that "hey take this vaccine, it won't stop you from getting the virus or transmitting the virus, but it might keep you from death."

The flu vaccines for one. 

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, ThLT said:

So? That just shows that the vaccines help protect against becoming seriously ill or death. Which I agree with and which has been proven.

 

Nothing to do with transmission and infection.

 

Your math is all wrong. ???? It's already a proportion. You can't take a proportion and then do a second proportion. ????

 

Rate of infection in The Lancet study was 38% for unvaccinated and 25% for vaccinated. That's a 13% difference. Which is insignificantly small difference.

 

Exactly like the study says:

 

I'm guessing that mathematics is not your best subject.  I used the percentages and study numbers to arrive at the actual number of infected.  As I stated, it just requires simple arithmetic. 

 

If the Lancet study had shown that only 1% of the vaccinated were infected while 14% of the unvaccinated became infected, would you ignore the fact that 14 times as many unvaccinated were infected and still insist it's only a 13% difference?

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You have mistakenly written that Biden says this. No he does not. He said it once. The statement was corrected and he didn't say it again. Your use of the present tense might be applicable to certain other parties who keep on repeating falsehoods despite being corrected.

He said it more than once , at least three times has has stated such 

When did he retract his statement and say the opposite of what he wrongly claimed ?

When  did he admit his error , or does he still stand by his false statement ?