Video: "No justice" for Thai motorcycle delivery guy after collision with American driving golf buggy in luxury housing estate

[NoshowJones]

17 hours ago, digger70 said:

One Question about the Law ,Who's in the Wrong?

 

Golf carts are not allowed to be operated on public roads in Thailand,

If so, than the Buggy is Wrong,Right.

It has been stated by a poster who lived on that road that it is a private road. Forget about this incident just for a moment. Are vehicles allowed to drive or ride on a private road without the vehicles been registered or the drivers not having a license or insurance?

[IvorBiggun2]

The motorcyclist was in the wrong.

 

 

Quote

 

Is it illegal to overtake on a crossing?

 

 

You MUST NOT overtake the moving vehicle nearest the crossing 

 

 

[Neeranam]

16 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The motorcyclist was in the wrong.

 

 

 

Depends on your definition of 'wrong'.

[digger70]

44 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

It has been stated by a poster who lived on that road that it is a private road. Forget about this incident just for a moment. Are vehicles allowed to drive or ride on a private road without the vehicles been registered or the drivers not having a license or insurance?

Yes  ,one can drive on a private road without a license or insurance. 

Title3:Driver’sLicense
Section 42
Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver’s license. The driver must carry the driver’s license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

[IvorBiggun2]

32 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Depends on your definition of 'wrong'.

Not my 'definition' but the laws. 

[Russell17au]

33 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Depends on your definition of 'wrong'.

It is the law definition not your definition. The bike rider overtook the vehicle in front of him within 30 metres of the pedestrian crossing. So, YES the bike rider is in the wrong. Some people just cannot understand the law or they are just trolls.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It is the law definition not your definition. The bike rider overtook the vehicle in front of him within 30 metres of the pedestrian crossing. So, YES the bike rider is in the wrong. Some people just cannot understand the law or they are just trolls.

You miss my point, I've seen one accident in Khon Kaen caused by someone obeying the law, stopping at a zebra crossing and the car behind went on the inside hitting a pedestrian. Sometimes we don't follow the rule book, as it can actually be the cause of an accident.  Another example, one guy was killed outside KKW school for tooting his horn, shot in the head. 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Neeranam

[Katipo]

This is obviously in Nichada, a village in which their are numerous speed humps and signs telling people to slow down. The village is home to ISB school and hundreds of expat and Thai children. While I feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, he had no business riding at those excessive speeds in such an area.

[ozimoron]

12 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

No, no and no. Your statement is completely wrong.

 

Your not qualified in Thailand that is for darn sure.

 

What Moo Ban allows passing anywhere?

 

None.

show me a law which prevents passing.

[ozimoron]

14 hours ago, cncltd1973 said:

the motorcycle was clearly overtaking at a crosswalk and more than likely speeding, adding up to reckless endangerment. and it's the responsibility of the vehicle behind not to crash into the vehicle in front, not to mention the buggy was still in his lane. I've had motorcycles in the US since I was 10 (39 years ago) and ride dozens of times in Indonesia, and I can say I wouldn't be alive today if I rode like that. the Thai gov't is at fault for not properly educating drivers, Thais think scooters are motorized bicycles and don't realize how deadly they are to themselves and pedestrians.

The buggy was turning out of his lane and the motorcycle was beside him when he hit it.

[Ginner]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:15 AM, ezzra said:

Freaks of nature, it seems that really no one to blame here, the buggy was turning and the moto was trying to overtake on the right, you can say that the moto rider didn't observe the intention of the vehicle ahead and slow down or avoid the accident all together but this is splitting hairs now, and as moto or golf buggy don't carry insurance the moto rider left holding the bag...

If you watch the video CAREFULLY you will see the buggy's wheels turn to the right just before the bike collides with it. If the buggy wanted to turn right, why wasn't it in the right hand lane? It was in the inside lane and as far as I know golf buggies don't have indicators or wing/rear view mirrors. How was the biker to know the buggy was turning right?

 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

The motorcyclist was in the wrong.

 

 

 

Yes it was illegal to overtake on a crossing but that wasn't the worst offense here. That would be driving without due care by turning into a motor vehicle which was adjacent him. The motorcycle was already adjacent the buggy when it turned. Without a rear view mirror and sitting on the left side with a passenger to his right he did not have a clear view of the motorcycle.

[Neeranam]

49 minutes ago, Katipo said:

While I feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, he had no business riding at those excessive speeds

It is because of his business that he was travelling fast. 

[IvorBiggun2]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Yes it was illegal to overtake on a crossing but that wasn't the worst offense here. That would be driving without due care by turning into a motor vehicle which was adjacent him.

Overtaking that close to a crossing is totally reckless and irresponsible. The one driving without due care and attention has to be the motorcyclist for trying to overtake on a crossing. 

[IvorBiggun2]

4 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is because of his business that he was travelling fast. 

Don't be silly. What business would that be?

[billd766]

15 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

And moving lanes and turning in to someone without looking is fine, obviously.

However, speeding, no indication of the motorbike direction, Overtaking across a solid yellow line, overtaking within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossing, overtaking actually on the pedestrian crossing are all OK by you, so it must have been the buggy drivers fault.

 

No matter how the majority of the posters write, they are all wrong and you are correct.

 

Really? As nobody from Aseannow was actually there including me and you, only you and a small minority of posters are correct and everybody else, including the police who have actually been to the site, are wrong.

 

I have not read such a rubbish post like yours for a while.

 

Xan you explain to us all what qualifications you have to arrive at your conclusion?

Edited February 11, 2022 by billd766
Bad spelling

[Mr Meeseeks]

59 minutes ago, Katipo said:

This is obviously in Nichada, a village in which their are numerous speed humps and signs telling people to slow down. The village is home to ISB school and hundreds of expat and Thai children. While I feel sorry for the motorcycle rider, he had no business riding at those excessive speeds in such an area.

Correct answer and end of discussion, let's move on.

[Mr Meeseeks]

10 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

It is because of his business that he was travelling fast. 

Then he was at fault and now has to live with consequences, man up and take some responsibility for a change.

[josephbloggs]

8 minutes ago, billd766 said:

However, speeding, no indication of the motorbike direction, Overtaking across a solid yellow line, overtaking within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossing, overtaking actually on the pedestrian crossing are all OK by you, so it must have been the buggy drivers fault.

 

No matter how the majority of the posters write, they are all wrong and you are correct.

 

Really? As nobody from Aseannow was actually there including me and you, only you and a small minority of posters are correct and everybody else, including the police who have actually been to the site, are wrong.

 

I have not read such a rubbish post like yours for a while.

 

Xan you explain to us all what qualifications you have to arrive at your conclusion?

Jesus, calm down.  I need qualifications to have a personal opinion?  I have two eyes.  Those two eyes see a man in a golf buggy drift to his right without looking.  My eyes also see a motorbike that was travelling way too fast.  Put the two together and you have an accident.

What my eyes see goes in to my brain which then makes a decision.  On the journey from my eyes to my brain the information does not pass through an anti Thai filter that makes people say the foreign man has no fault whatsoever.  Sorry but he does.  If the bike had just rammed in to him and he hadn't moved in to its path then that would be correct.  He turned in to it as it was alongside him.

In summary, the farang should have looked or signalled before moving.  The Thai guy should not have been going nearly as fast as that.  Both share the blame, therefore no further action required.  Thank you.

[billsmart]

20 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

These moo baans, they have a lot of four lane roads? I don't believe he was changing lanes because there was only the one.

If he wasn't changing lanes, then he was turning right. Either way, it's the buggy-drives fault, IMO....

[billsmart]

4 hours ago, possum1931 said:

Yes, the buggy driver was at fault, but I would like to know approximately what speed the MB was doing.

I am keeping in mind it is in a mooban.

Is a mooban the same as a gated community? Sorry for my ignorance here.

I'll be interested to see others' comments here, but a "mooban" to me is just a small community, like a small village. It doesn't have to be gated and usually isn't.

[jonclark]

Is it legal to overtake on a pedestrian crossing - Genuine question. 

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, jonclark said:

Is it legal to overtake on a pedestrian crossing - Genuine question. 

Section 46 of the Thai Road Traffic Act clearly states that you are not allowed to overtake a vehicle within 30 metres of the pedestrian crossing which includes on the pedestrian crossing because on the approach to and on the pedestrian crossing it is a solid lane marker and it is an offence to cross that lane marker

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Overtaking that close to a crossing is totally reckless and irresponsible. The one driving without due care and attention has to be the motorcyclist for trying to overtake on a crossing. 

The buggy struck the motorcycle, not the other way round.

[Russell17au]

6 hours ago, ozimoron said:

The buggy struck the motorcycle, not the other way round.

You just do not get it in your thick skull the motorbike was illegally overtaking the buggy by Thai law and that is why the police charged the bike rider

[ozimoron]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You just do not get it in your thick skull the motorbike was illegally overtaking the buggy by Thai law and that is why the police charged the bike rider

I never disputed that. What I said was that was the lesser offense here. The greater offense, as I said, was that the buggy struck the bike while illegally turning on a crossing and failing to take due care. Just as it is illegal to overtake on a crossing it is likewise illegal to turn on a crossing. Where he could have been turning into we don't know.

 

"When driving into or out of a road-related area or adjacent land, you must give way to all vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians on the road, footpath or road-related area"

 

"

When driving a vehicle being overtaken by another vehicle, you must:

• keep to the left, if safe, to allow a reasonable space for the overtaking vehicle to pass or
• keep within your lane and
• not increase your speed until the other vehicle has completely overtaken your vehicle and returned to the lane or line of traffic."

Edited February 11, 2022 by ozimoron

[thailand49]

On 2/10/2022 at 7:52 PM, Neeranam said:

The main point I was making is that many foreigners have no interest in integrating into Thai society and therefore criticize it at every chance they can, to somehow elevate their feeling of less-worth. They get reassurance that their bashing is justified by hanging out with fellow bashers in expat bars, or internet forums. 

Due to lack of integration and illiteracy, mixed in with a sometimes Colonial attitude, they will never understand the cultural nuance of Thai society. 

Yes, the foreigner is often blamed, mainly as for starters they can't converse in the language and puts them on the same level of the hierarchical social ladder as a Roi Et farmer. Interesting,  years ago, I was driving through the rice fields of Mahasarakham when I was in a head on collision with a pick up truck, driven by a farmer. He was on the wrong side of the road, so absolutely no question as to whose fault it was. I even heard them the policeman say to the yokel 'not to worry, as the farang would pay'. I phoned my boss at the university, whose daughter was married to the head policeman in Khon Kaen. When he came on the scene, the blame was immediately shifted to the hillbilly. There is a saying in Thai "the person with no influence is always in the wrong". At the police station, the guy was ordered to pay me 1 months salary, my hospital bills and repair my car. My now friend explained how it is done in Thailand - the chief of the station's son was entering the university the next year. There is a Thai word for this, 'boon koon'. Then, there was an issue with the insurance as they wouldn't give me the cash to pay for a rental for 3 months. Again, to the 'friend' but he had just left the force to become a senator. I was asked to wait a couple of months until he was back from Bkk, but then the Thaksin government was ousted so he became out of  a job and had to flee to Laos. Having 'friends' here  is often a temporary benefit, so better to have many in different factions. on to the General, lol. It is often considered a game, this hierarchical 'nonsense', and like another cultural difference, a foreigner to get the better of a Thai is something people laugh about and a big loss of face. We will fight to get the better of a foreigner! 

Also, there are many differences between Thai personal values and Western ones. Neither are better, just well 'cultural'. Just as there are advantages and disadvantages to indirect and direct communication, there are differences in which values are prioritized. For example, in the West, especially the US, the value of 'personal freedom' is on top of the list, hence they don't want to wear masks, which benefits the whole of society. This is frowned upon by Thais, who prioritize the value of 'community'. When one stives to be aware of the differences and accept neither is better, one can live more harmoniously. Whatever is 'the law' doesn't always align with these cultural beliefs, the community determines what is morally correct, so forget copying the highway code to justify your opinion(not you personally).

Thanks for the reply I fully understand your point and agree with it. I'm pretty much a loner for a reason but I do know a lot of expats who as you mentioned that live in a bubble maybe that is how the " bubble " word is currently being used? 

 

I wasn't born yesterday but like everyone I landed in Thailand not looking for trouble nor did I have a chip on my shoulder but things happened to me even those who grew up and lived here longer than I said I must be cursed this kind of stuff just doesn't happen. I've tried very hard to turn my life around but Thailand because of the culture similar in my opinion to the thinking as you noted this was evident in my dad, older brother and majority of my Uncles in H.K. who had enormous amount of influence. When they heard of my problems here in Thailand my older cousins from H.K. made a visit and in that visit introduced me during dinner to a few very powerful Thais who basically gave me a get out of jail card in Thailand.

 

I grew up in that world my cousin knew I would never use it unless my life depended on it, it comes with a cost. Thailand ended up to be the last place I wanted to be because with the problems I was having it was bringing back to a life I try so hard not to live back home.  Soon after I kind of reinvented myself for my son when I did life got better and normal but although I had the influence that has never been my style, I don't drop names or tell others who I know, I've always been able to figure it out for myself life is a game and I pride myself in playing it I guess being able to read faces and body language to a point as a hobby has certainly come in handy here.

 

Money isn't an issue for me it is how you treat people if I'm wrong or screw up I don't care really who it is I will admit to it and if necessary make compensation but there is only so much being taken advantage I can take with my personality I worry the day as you noted someone comes because they have status use it thinking I'm going to rollover, I have no ego no shame no belief in religion I live with the code I was raised it is inked into my forearms, I will roll so much shame myself in front of my family if it allows me to obtain a peaceful solution reason I keep to myself so I never put myself in a position for something to happen because if you do it will.

 

I treat everyone with respect rich or poor until they don't deserve to be treated in that manner. Good day, thanks for the conversation we started on a bad footing but I respect what you have to say.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:56 AM, ozimoron said:

On 2/11/2022 at 10:23 AM, IvorBiggun2 said:

Overtaking that close to a crossing is totally reckless and irresponsible. The one driving without due care and attention has to be the motorcyclist for trying to overtake on a crossing. 

The buggy struck the motorcycle, not the other way round.

Not so... 

 

IF the Buggy had started its turn then stopped... would the motorcycle still have ridden into it ?

 

IF the Motorcyclist had stopped, would there have been any impact ?

 

The motorcyclist struck the golf buggy - that much is obvious.

 

The debate is regarding driving and riding with due care and attention.

 

 

The Buggy driver made a manoeuvre off the driving line without checking if the road was clear, no mirrors, so he should have shoulder checked. 

 

The motorcyclist was riding too fast and didn’t allow for the very probably ‘manoeuvring off the driving line’ in a moo-ban. 

 

 

I get it in my moo-baan...  Delivery motorcyclists in and out all day long. 

It means when I son is riding his bike in the street I stand outside, in the road and watch out for motorcyclists. 

If one a approaches too fast I put up my hand... they seem to know straight away... they just forget thats all. 

 

Also, when turning right into my drive way, I have to be very careful, sometimes there is a delivery motorcyclists who thinks its a good idea to overtake a ’slowing vehicle’ in a moo-baan without considering why that vehicle would be slowing in the first place (obviously about to turn into a drive way).

 

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Not so... 

 

IF the Buggy had started its turn then stopped... would the motorcycle still have ridden into it ?

 

IF the Motorcyclist had stopped, would there have been any impact ?

 

The motorcyclist struck the golf buggy - that much is obvious.

 

The debate is regarding driving and riding with due care and attention.

 

 

The Buggy driver made a manoeuvre off the driving line without checking if the road was clear, no mirrors, so he should have shoulder checked. 

 

The motorcyclist was riding too fast and didn’t allow for the very probably ‘manoeuvring off the driving line’ in a moo-ban. 

 

 

I get it in my moo-baan...  Delivery motorcyclists in and out all day long. 

It means when I son is riding his bike in the street I stand outside, in the road and watch out for motorcyclists. 

If one a approaches too fast I put up my hand... they seem to know straight away... they just forget thats all. 

 

Also, when turning right into my drive way, I have to be very careful, sometimes there is a delivery motorcyclists who thinks its a good idea to overtake a ’slowing vehicle’ in a moo-baan without considering why that vehicle would be slowing in the first place (obviously about to turn into a drive way).

 

 

 

 

 

Nothing about the video gives any indication of speed.

[konaboy]

I've done a number of bike accidents as an attorney over the years. It is difficult to tell from the video whether or not both may have had some liability. Then the jury will find an "off set" on each party (if any) and come out with an award. 

Of note is the severe injuries to the rider. He must have impacted the ground hard, indicating a fast speed?