Seems the Unvaccinated Topic hit home, 50/50 in response

[FarFlungFalang]

Just now, ozimoron said:

It's a logical conclusion from the evidence that unvaccinated people are more likely to contract and transmit the virus.

What scientific studies show that segregating people based on vaccination works?Are we going to start segregating people who aren't vaccinated for other deadly viruses like the flu or rabies etc.

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

What scientific studies show that segregating people based on vaccination works?Are we going to start segregating people who aren't vaccinated for other deadly viruses like the flu or rabies etc.

The flu is nothing like as deadly or contagious as covid. Scientific studies have proven that vaccinations reduce infection and transmission. It is therefore logically IMPOSSIBLE that segregation of the unvaccinated will not reduce transmission.

[jackspade]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

If there were vaccinations that prevented to two leading causes of death, heart disease and cancer, I would eagerly get them.

If there were a vaccination that prevented COVID, I would consider getting it.

Edited February 14, 2022 by jackspade

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, jackspade said:

If there were a vaccination that prevented COVID, I would consider getting it.

There's several which reduce your chances very significantly. I suppose you don't wear seatbelts because people still get killed while wearing them.

Edited February 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[bert bloggs]

Ive had 2 az and a phizer booster here in Pattaya ,no side effects .

[jackspade]

51 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

That study only measured the people once for viral loads, a flaw in its research. 

 

Here's some more.

 

A vaccinated person is less likely to get COVID in the first instance, is less contagious, and is contagious for a shorter time, resulting in significantly less spread of the virus through a highly vaccinated community.

 

"vaccinated people clear the virus faster, with lower levels of virus overall, and have less time with very high levels of virus present."

 

https://globalbiodefense.com/2021/12/04/vaccinated-people-clear-covid-faster-less-time-with-high-virus-levels/

The site you posted is obscure and not a good source of information.

 

According to the CDC as reported in Newsweek, viral loads are quite similar between both groups. https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-data-shows-delta-variant-breakthrough-cases-equally-contagious-unvaccinated-people-1614521
 

Do you disagree with the CDC?

Edited February 14, 2022 by jackspade

[Bkk Brian]

15 minutes ago, jackspade said:

The site you posted is obscure and not a good source of information.

 

According to the CDC as reported in Newsweek, viral loads are quite similar between both groups. https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-data-shows-delta-variant-breakthrough-cases-equally-contagious-unvaccinated-people-1614521
 

Do you disagree with the CDC?

That site linked to the study sources as did my post, thanks

Edited February 14, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[FarFlungFalang]

20 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The flu is nothing like as deadly or contagious as covid. Scientific studies have proven that vaccinations reduce infection and transmission. It is therefore logically IMPOSSIBLE that segregation of the unvaccinated will not reduce transmission.

The flu has been far more deadly than covid.Put them side by side and see how many have died from each in the past.As has been seen with the corona virus it's quite possible that a new flu variant may emerge and repeat previous events.History is riddled with severe flu pandemics. 

[heybruce]

as I stated earlier, in a post supported by a CDC study:

 

"When the Omicron variant emerged during December 2021, case IRRs decreased to 4.9 for fully vaccinated persons with booster doses and 2.8 for those without booster doses.."  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

 

An unvaccinated person is almost five times as likely to be infected with Covid during the Omicron wave than a person that is vaccinated and boosted, and almost three times as likely to be infected as someone who is vaccinated but not boosted.

[heybruce]

21 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

The flu has been far more deadly than covid.Put them side by side and see how many have died from each in the past.As has been seen with the corona virus it's quite possible that a new flu variant may emerge and repeat previous events.History is riddled with severe flu pandemics. 

Wrong. 

 

"The publication reports approximately 600 deaths attributed to influenza during the 2020-2021 flu season in the United States, which typically peaks between December and February. Compared to previous years, where the numbers in the 2019-2020 season saw roughly 22,000 deaths, and the 2018-2019 season had more at 34,000 deaths, 600 is a 97 percent drop."https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/flu-deaths-dropped-97-percent-161139181.html

 

345,000 died of Covid in the US in 2020.  More died in 2021.  So Covid is at least 10 times deadlier than the flu.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Wrong. 

 

"The publication reports approximately 600 deaths attributed to influenza during the 2020-2021 flu season in the United States, which typically peaks between December and February. Compared to previous years, where the numbers in the 2019-2020 season saw roughly 22,000 deaths, and the 2018-2019 season had more at 34,000 deaths, 600 is a 97 percent drop."https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/flu-deaths-dropped-97-percent-161139181.html

 

345,000 died of Covid in the US in 2020.  More died in 2021.  So Covid is at least 10 times deadlier than the flu.

 

 

It used to be 20x more deadly than the flu but thanks to vaccinations + boosters and the lesser virulent Omicron its now just under twice as deadly, at least thats for the UK. More evidence of the effectiveness of vaccines.

 

"Two bits of good Covid news today in the UK.

First, adding another two weeks of ONS data means Covid’s infection fatality rate has now crossed below the "2x flu" line.

Latest IFR is roughly 60% higher than flu and still falling."

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1492138139103768576

 

[Chris.B]

On 2/11/2022 at 12:37 PM, chilly07 said:

So difficult for expats to get boosters in Thailand that I would never refuse! It's my responsibility to the human race to get vaccinated when I can! Universal vaccination is the only way out of this mess and further evidence of Lab manipulation still occuring shows clearly how at risk we are from malign intervention!

What is your location? It's not difficult in Bangkok, Chonburi and Phuket.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Chris.B

[rumak]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:30 PM, pedro01 said:

This is specific to vaccines and comprimising our immune systems: 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/repeat-booster-shots-risk-overloading-immune-system-ema-says#:~:text=European Union regulators warned that,to the European Medicines Agency.

 

So it might all be moot.

oh, even Bloomberg is allowing a little 'controversy' to be shown on their site.   "European Union regulators warned that frequent Covid-19 booster shots could adversely affect the immune response and may not be feasible.  "

 

maybe soon .... well, not so soon,   they will even print   oops...  

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, jackspade said:

Enough of the silly snark. Of course I wear seatbelts.

 

Which vaccines “significantly” reduce the chances of contracting COVID? Pfizer? Moderna? Name one?

 

As I stated earlier, there are no vaccines which measurably reduce one’s chances of contracting COVID—only of dying from it if one is in the very small at risk group. Nearly all of my vaccinated acquaintances have contracted COVID after being vaccinated.

all of them. how can you be this ignorant of the evidence that has been posted here many times? Do you simply not read any links which pro vaxxers post or articles which don't come from a conspiracy website?

Edited February 14, 2022 by ozimoron

[FarFlungFalang]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Wrong. 

 

"The publication reports approximately 600 deaths attributed to influenza during the 2020-2021 flu season in the United States, which typically peaks between December and February. Compared to previous years, where the numbers in the 2019-2020 season saw roughly 22,000 deaths, and the 2018-2019 season had more at 34,000 deaths, 600 is a 97 percent drop."https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/flu-deaths-dropped-97-percent-161139181.html

 

345,000 died of Covid in the US in 2020.  More died in 2021.  So Covid is at least 10 times deadlier than the flu.

 

 

Here's some info on how deadly the flu has been.In 1918-1920 the estimated deaths from the flu was 1.2% of the global population compared with covid of 0.0725% deaths of the global population.It's estimated that 50 million (possibly 100 million) deaths from the flu in a 2 year period in a population of 1.8 billion people compared to 5.8 million deaths from covid in a population of 7.9 billion people.Not only was it more deadly it seems to have been more contagious.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history

[pikao]

This thread has developed a strong prayer wheel dynamic

[FarFlungFalang]

7 minutes ago, pikao said:

This thread has developed a strong prayer wheel dynamic

Well they both have lots of spin involved.

[jacko45k]

5 hours ago, peter zwart said:

Same for a friend of mine

I might expect that more so if the 3rd booster was a different vaccine than the priors.

[heybruce]

39 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Here's some info on how deadly the flu has been.In 1918-1920 the estimated deaths from the flu was 1.2% of the global population compared with covid of 0.0725% deaths of the global population.It's estimated that 50 million (possibly 100 million) deaths from the flu in a 2 year period in a population of 1.8 billion people compared to 5.8 million deaths from covid in a population of 7.9 billion people.Not only was it more deadly it seems to have been more contagious.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history

That was how deadly the flu was.    For the last 100 years it has been significantly less deadly.  The time frame applicable to this discussion is now, and now Covid is at least 10 times more deadly for the unvaccinated than  the flu.

[JustAnotherHun]

85 percent of the covid victims are 70+ of age.

For younger people without underlying conditions (as adipositas for example) the risk is minimal.

In Germany the medium death age of Covid victims is around two years above the medium life expectancy.

Very bery scaring, indeed.

Edited February 14, 2022 by JustAnotherHun

[Bkk Brian]

55 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Here's some info on how deadly the flu has been.In 1918-1920 the estimated deaths from the flu was 1.2% of the global population compared with covid of 0.0725% deaths of the global population.It's estimated that 50 million (possibly 100 million) deaths from the flu in a 2 year period in a population of 1.8 billion people compared to 5.8 million deaths from covid in a population of 7.9 billion people.Not only was it more deadly it seems to have been more contagious.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history

Not sure how relevant that is so long ago. Although I bet they wish they had effective vaccines for that particular flu strain, would have cut the deaths by 90% or more if they were as effective as the covid-19 vaccines. Instead all they had to rely on was widespread mask wearing, closing schools, churches and public gatherings to help flatten the curve.

 

In a study CFR for the Spanish flu and Covid-19 was the same in the UK

 

Comparing COVID-19 and the 1918–19 influenza pandemics in the United Kingdom pdf download

[FarFlungFalang]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not sure how relevant that is so long ago. Although I bet they wish they had effective vaccines for that particular flu strain, would have cut the deaths by 90% or more if they were as effective as the covid-19 vaccines. Instead all they had to rely on was widespread mask wearing, closing schools, churches and public gatherings to help flatten the curve.

 

In a study CFR for the Spanish flu and Covid-19 was the same in the UK

 

Comparing COVID-19 and the 1918–19 influenza pandemics in the United Kingdom pdf download

So now you're saying that covid is just like the flu?I remember being blasted for saying the same thing 2 years ago, it's good to see that people are starting to see the light!The relevance of the link was to my statement that the flu "has been" more deadly than covid.Sure there are more advanced medical responses now but that doesn't change the fact that the flu has been more deadly than covid has been.As for the "now time frame" suggested by another poster then we have to take into account that it's mostly the Omicron variant which is reducing the overall IFR numbers as well the current IFR which is greatly reduced to being similar to the flu. 

[Bkk Brian]

26 minutes ago, FarFlungFalang said:

So now you're saying that covid is just like the flu?

No where did I say that? Better re read my post and also the one before it.

[JustAnotherHun]

2 minutes ago, catturd said:

So, put the real, "non fake" data version here. Lets see what you got.

And oh, its not fake because you don't agree with it or like it.

I agree. And next time I'll mark such a post as "sarkasm" somehow.

Edited February 14, 2022 by JustAnotherHun

[ozimoron]

19 minutes ago, catturd said:

perhaps but it depends on the age cohort and some recent UK data suggests vaccinated are at higher risk of covid infection now. For example: for 40-49 year olds, the case rate is 4,687 per 100,000 in the boosted, and only 1,726 in the vaccine-free. The arithmetical implications are the boosted are 2.71 times MORE LIKELY to get covid.

Table 13, p. 44

 

So, you're claiming that vaccinations make people more susceptible to infection? Do you believe the data suggests that?

[catturd]

well, tbh I don't really know. But maybe they do, I suspect they are not all cracked up to what some would want you to believe.

[catturd]

3 minutes ago, catturd said:

well, tbh I don't really know. But maybe they do, I suspect they are not all cracked up to what some would want you to believe.

Omicron will likely continue to infect and kill at risk cohorts at will. Vaccination technology needs to improve or this mess will just linger until.....when?

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, catturd said:

Omicron will likely continue to infect and kill at risk cohorts at will. Vaccination technology needs to improve or this mess will just linger until.....when?

The vaccine is excellent at preventing death, over 95% protection, from the exact same report you were misrepresenting

[Airalee]

46 minutes ago, catturd said:

perhaps but it depends on the age cohort and some recent UK data suggests vaccinated are at higher risk of covid infection now. For example: for 40-49 year olds, the case rate is 4,687 per 100,000 in the boosted, and only 1,726 in the vaccine-free. The arithmetical implications are the boosted are 2.71 times MORE LIKELY to get covid.

Table 13, p. 44

 

Where in those figures are the people who have had 2 doses but not “at least 3 doses”?  Why would they be excluded from these figures? How many people out of the entire population have had “at least 3 doses” vs “2 doses” vs “unvaccinated”.   We need more information.

 

I also see that the unvaccinated in the 40-49 age group are roughly 4 times as likely to die, but again, what happens to those figures if you include the 2 dose group?

 

Also, when I hear “4 times as likely to die” it sounds scary.  But when I look at the total numbers (0.8/100,000 vs 3.4/100,000) both groups seem to have a relatively low risk of death at that age range.  4 times a very small fraction is still a very small fraction.  Of course, it’s different for people over 70 so I can understand the concern of posters here that fall in that demographic.

 

I also find that there is information missing and we could get a better grasp of the absolute risk if we were to see the comorbidities and height/weight of those who die.  Of the 3.4/100,000 40-49 year olds, how many were overweight?

 

 

[catturd]

8 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Of the 3.4/100,000 40-49 year olds, how many were overweight?

You will have to check on that, how you do it will be interesting. But, spose that's why the good Lord invented yandex.