US Credit Card debt upon death

[RegularGuy77]

I would like to know if I had a balance due on my US credit cards, could they make a claim on my Thailand bank assets to pay balance due?

 

I currently have a couple of US credit cards in my name only, one of which is by Citi. I usually do not carry a balance and pay it off monthly. However, if I died, I want my Thai wife to get my assets in Thailand. I have a Thai will that states this. I only have bank assets. So, I assume the probate might take about six months worst case. 
 

I know they would go after my US bank account to satisfy my credit card debt. However, would they be successful if they filed a claim in Thailand during Thailand probate or after my Thai wife gets the assets transferred? How would a Thai judge likely rule?

Thanks in advance for your input

 

[Lacessit]

I would say if the credit card provider did not know you have Thai bank accounts, they would not be able to come after the cash.

If you are paying off monthly, unless you are racking up large amounts, they would probably just write the balance off as a bad debt.

[gargamon]

So, how big is this credit card debt? I find it hard to believe that it so big that this issue is a major problem. Have you been living on the CC's and only paying the minimum every month?

[Woof999]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I would say if the credit card provider did not know you have Thai bank accounts, they would not be able to come after the cash.

If you are paying off monthly, unless you are racking up large amounts, they would probably just write the balance off as a bad debt.

Most countries have an agreement with the US that when a US citizen opens an account they must notify the IRS. The US citizen is required to complete a declaration at the point of opening the foreign account. Not sure that is the case with Thailand (but I would be surprised if it wasn't) and not sure that info would be passed to US lenders.

[ChrisP24]

The way it works in the U.S. is that the credit card issuer has a claim on your estate.  But if your Thai bank account is a joint account with your wife, or if you have it set up with your wife as the beneficiary, then it passes directly to her upon your death rather than to your estate, so the credit card issuer would not have a claim on it.  I'm assuming that the credit card is in just your name / your sole debt and that your wife is not a signer. 

 

A key component of estate planning in the U.S. is keeping assets out of your estate via joint tenancies and beneficiaries, and (for more complex assets or situations) trusts.   Your estate receives anything left over from that.  So it is possible (and sometimes preferable) for there to be no assets at all in the estate upon your passing.  The main purpose of a Will is to dictate where those leftover assets in your estate will go, after any debts or other claims against your estate are satisfied.  But the function of joint tenancies and beneficiaries trump the Will.   

 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by ChrisP24

[mtls2005]

Does Citi know you live in Thailand?

 

Has Citi Thailand ever contacted you?

 

Have you filed FBARs?

 

Do you itemize any Thai bank interest on your 1040?

 

We have to ask how, large is the CC balance?

 

FWIW Citi NA did just sell (end Dec) Citi Thailand to Krung Sri (Bank of Ayudhya), not saying that's relevant the the OPs situation.

 

The obvious solution is to keep the usage and balance to a minimum.

 

 

 

 

[RegularGuy77]

4 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Does Citi know you live in Thailand?

 

Has Citi Thailand ever contacted you?

 

Have you filed FBARs?

 

Do you itemize any Thai bank interest on your 1040?

 

We have to ask how, large is the CC balance?

 

FWIW Citi NA did just sell (end Dec) Citi Thailand to Krung Sri (Bank of Ayudhya), not saying that's relevant the the OPs situation.

 

The obvious solution is to keep the usage and balance to a minimum.

 

 

 

 

Citi Thailand has never contacted me in Thailand except by email. I have a US address. 
I do submit FBARs at the beginning of every year. Also do my taxes every year using my Thailand address, but don’t need to report interest. I don’t even know if US Treasury FBAR reports or tax returns are available to US companies.

 

As stated, I can’t recall the last time I carried a CC balance. I am asking as a what if scenario.

Lets say I make a purchase for $10,000 and died before I made payment. Would it be worth it to the CC issuer to pursue it in Thailand?
Is there a Thailand law statute regarding collection of such foreign debt?
 

[cmarshall]

The chances that the credit card issuer would come after your Thai assets are vanishingly small.  Even in the US, what they typically do is send a nasty letter to the heir/spouse demanding payment.  However, the spouse has no obligation to pay your debts.  So, the bank can come after your estate.  But even in the US this rarely happens.  They just write it off.  How likely are they to retain a Thai law firm to seek a judgment against your estate about the value of which they know nothing.  

 

The Treasury and the IRS do not share information about a taxpayer without a court order.

 

I am a little puzzled by the OP's reference to probate.  Since he has a Thai will, presumably he is referring to probate in a Thai court if there is such a thing.  If he does not have a US will then there will be no US probate.  Unless he has US assets he has no need of a US will.  Even if he does have US assets, but only in TOD bank and brokerage accounts then he still has no need of a US will.  

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think a joint Thai bank account passes automatically to the surviving account holder.  In fact, I don't there is such a thing as a joint bank account.  What you probably have is an account to which your wife has been added with some kind supplementary access, which will not survive your death.  She will have to go to court to get access to the funds.  

 

When he shuffles off his mortal coil here in Thailand the Thai authorities will notify the US Consulate who will notify the Social Security Administration.  Don't know if they notify any other part of the US government, but they don't notify banks.

 

Actually, you might consider advising your wife to continue to use your US credit cards after your death.  They are far more valuable than Thai credit cards since they have fraud protection.  The card issuers will never notice your demise.  I have read online accounts of survivors who have used their dead spouse's credit card for ten years.  As long as she pays her bills she should be able to use them for years.

Edited February 21, 2022 by cmarshall

[Yellowtail]

I have a joint Krunsri account with my wife we opened a a few years ago, so they do exist.

 

[Heng]

Have known more than a few Thais and Americans and who racked up credit card debt/student loan debt/left unpaid debts up in the air in the US and no one ever came for them.   I think as long as it's not felony level numbers, it's not worth it for them to chase you.    An exception that they do take seriously and has been mentioned many times is skipping out on child support.   

[cmarshall]

On 2/23/2022 at 5:17 PM, Yellowtail said:

I have a joint Krunsri account with my wife we opened a a few years ago, so they do exist.

 

Are you sure that it is a true joint account and not your account with access for your wife?  If you ask them whether your wife would have access to the funds after you die what would they say?

[cmarshall]

On 2/23/2022 at 7:33 PM, Heng said:

Have known more than a few Thais and Americans and who racked up credit card debt/student loan debt/left unpaid debts up in the air in the US and no one ever came for them.   I think as long as it's not felony level numbers, it's not worth it for them to chase you.    An exception that they do take seriously and has been mentioned many times is skipping out on child support.   

Why on earth would a credit card issuer care about your child support payments?  

[Heng]

13 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Why on earth would a credit card issuer care about your child support payments?  

55.  Yes, I meant the powers that be / US LE in general.   (for instance as many know, it's one of the few things that can keep you from renewing your US passport)   Not your CC card issuer.   

[taxout]

Thailand may be different of course but in the US an executor generally has an obligation to seek out all creditors of the deceased and may be personally liable if a creditor is not notified.

Edited February 25, 2022 by taxout

[lopburi3]

On 2/24/2022 at 7:49 PM, cmarshall said:

Are you sure that it is a true joint account and not your account with access for your wife?  If you ask them whether your wife would have access to the funds after you die what would they say?

I am very sure I have a joint account - and there are two options for them - require single or both signatures.  Both names are on the account ownership front page and signature UV - what you are talking is only one name on account but second name has signatory authority and on UV page but not listed on account.