Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[JohnOFphon]

16 hours ago, Chris.B said:

The problem here is, do the Ukrainians have enough pilots?

 

or pilots that haven't already made a one way border run.

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

These requirements are perfectly reasonable and I hope Ukraine has the good sense to accept them. It will stabilise the region in the long term.

 

Why have Ukraine not surrendered already in order to prevent further death and destruction? It seems their military was almost entirely taken out on the first day. If they have no planes, tanks or artillery, then they have lost. End of.

Every additional day Zelensky don't surrender is simply torturing his own people. Seems he actually wants to drag this on in order to capitalise on sympathy from the west and drag them into a world war.

Wrong on all points Mr Derek

[Virt]

7 minutes ago, JohnOFphon said:

or pilots that haven't already made a one way border run.

Why do you think that?

 

I would assume fighter pilots with their highly specialized training, would be so professional that they wouldn't flee from their country in a time of war.

[Virt]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wrong on all points Mr Derek

I think Putin is trying to get out of this war as soon as he can, and he has realized it's not possible to conquer the entire Ukraine and also deploy the amount of troops needed for such an operation.

It's going to take a <deleted> load of troops to maintain control of Ukraine.

 

Having used the nuclear threat already and peace talks so soon is a good indication.

They now threaten to turn off the gas supplies to Europe.

 

Are Putin running out of options sooner than expected?

[tgw]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/vitaly-gerasimov-second-russian-general-killed-ukraine-defence-ministry-claims

[jollyhangmon]

 

Ukraine conflict: What's behind Southeast Asia's muted response?

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflict-whats-behind-southeast-asias-muted-response/a-61039013

 

[Mr Derek]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Wrong on all points Mr Derek

Care to explain why?

 

Be realistic. Ukraine is not going to win this war. All those on here who are content to see the Ukrainian people continue to suffer day after day - why? For pride, that's all. So that Ukraine can take pride in making a bigger splodge on the map. That's all this is about. 

 

If you believe in democracy, and human decency, you will allow the Russian majority in Donbass independence. And if you believe in democracy, you will then allow them to have a referendum, as did Crimea, whether to join Russia or not. And of course they will, because they are Russian.

 

As usual everyone's thinking is based on emotion rather than reason. All they see is Ukraine = innocent victims = angels. Are they aware that Donbass is majority Russian? Are they aware that Ukraine has been oppressing those people and that there has been an independence struggle there for years? Are they aware that Ukraine's borders were arbitrarily drawn at a time when Russia was on its knees and busy looking after itself and now need to be rationalised?

 

Genocide is always too strong a word, but Ukraine has clearly been trying to quash those Russian populations in Donbass. The self-declared Nazi-oriented Azov regiment was incorporated in the Ukrainian army specifically to do that. The Russians in Donbass are the victims here. The solution to the problem is exactly what Russia is now proposing. Surrender and accede to those terms. Problem solved.

 

I suggest you reconsider your alliance according to democratic values.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Mr Derek

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Care to explain why?

 

Be realistic. Ukraine is not going to win this war. All those on here who are content to see the Ukrainian people continue to suffer day after day - why? For pride, that's all. So that Ukraine can take pride in making a bigger splodge on the map. That's all this is about. 

 

If you believe in democracy, and human decency, you will allow the Russian majority in Donbass independence. And if you believe in democracy, you will then allow them to have a referendum, as did Crimea, whether to join Russia or not. And of course they will, because they are Russian.

 

As usual everyone's thinking is based on emotion rather than reason. All they see is Ukraine = innocent victims = angels. Are they aware that Donbass is majority Russian? Are they aware that Ukraine has been oppressing those people and that there has been an independence struggle there for years? Are they aware that Ukraine's borders were arbitrarily drawn at a time when Russia was on its knees and busy looking after itself and now need to be rationalised?

 

Genocide is always too strong a word, but Ukraine has clearly been trying to quash those Russian populations in Donbass. The self-declared Nazi-oriented Azov regiment was incorporated in the Ukrainian army specifically to do that. The Russians in Donbass are the victims here. The solution to the problem is exactly what Russia is now proposing. Surrender and accede to those terms. Problem solved.

 

I suggest you reconsider your alliance according to democratic values.

 

 

 

 

Multiple posts on this thread that already explain why, I suggest you start at the beginning and read them as all your points have been gone through already dozens of times.

[Chomper Higgot]

17 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Care to explain why?

 

Be realistic. Ukraine is not going to win this war. All those on here who are content to see the Ukrainian people continue to suffer day after day - why? For pride, that's all. So that Ukraine can take pride in making a bigger splodge on the map. That's all this is about. 

 

If you believe in democracy, and human decency, you will allow the Russian majority in Donbass independence. And if you believe in democracy, you will then allow them to have a referendum, as did Crimea, whether to join Russia or not. And of course they will, because they are Russian.

 

As usual everyone's thinking is based on emotion rather than reason. All they see is Ukraine = innocent victims = angels. Are they aware that Donbass is majority Russian? Are they aware that Ukraine has been oppressing those people and that there has been an independence struggle there for years? Are they aware that Ukraine's borders were arbitrarily drawn at a time when Russia was on its knees and busy looking after itself and now need to be rationalised?

 

Genocide is always too strong a word, but Ukraine has clearly been trying to quash those Russian populations in Donbass. The self-declared Nazi-oriented Azov regiment was incorporated in the Ukrainian army specifically to do that. The Russians in Donbass are the victims here. The solution to the problem is exactly what Russia is now proposing. Surrender and accede to those terms. Problem solved.

 

I suggest you reconsider your alliance according to democratic values.

 

 

 

 

Which ‘Democratic value’ is behind the invasion of a sovereign nation?

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, Mr Derek said:

Care to explain why?

 

Be realistic. Ukraine is not going to win this war. All those on here who are content to see the Ukrainian people continue to suffer day after day - why? For pride, that's all. So that Ukraine can take pride in making a bigger splodge on the map. That's all this is about. 

 

If you believe in democracy, you will allow the Russian majority in Donbass independence. And if you believe in democracy, you will then allow them to have a referendum, as did Crimea, whether to join Russia or not. And of course they will, because they are Russian.

 

As usual everyone's thinking is based on emotion rather than reason. All they see is Ukraine = innocent victims = angels. Are they aware that Donbass is majority Russian? Are they aware that Ukraine has been oppressing those people and that there has been an independence struggle there for years? Are they aware that Ukraine's borders were arbitrarily drawn at a time when Russia was on its knees and busy looking after itself and now need to be rationalised.

 

Genocide is always too strong a word, but Ukraine has clearly been trying to quash those Russian populations in Donbass. The self-declared Nazi-oriented Azov regiment was incorporated in the Ukrainian army specifically to do that. The Russians in Donbass are the victims here. The solution to the problem is exactly what Russia is now proposing. Surrender and accede to those terms. Problem solved.

 

I suggest you reconsider your alliance according to democratic values.

 

 

 

 

 

All I can say, watch out for being the useful idiot, and it not only directed against you, but everyone who take any war propaganda as truth and there is nothing more behind or between the lines. 

 

War is horror and both parts trying their best to rule and divide. 

 

The borders should had been respected, and everyone no matter what they feel should had respected each and ones individual feeling of belonging to one part. 

 

Still ridiculous since all is Russians or Ukrainians no matter how you twist it around!

 

Putin is the obvious aggressor with most power, and have to be treated like one.

 

As claimed before, the economic sanctions is a bluff, and a show with no effect, since Russia still export oil and gas!

 

The more I see what's going on, Putin's seems to know exactly what he doing, he got a solid cruel plan, and stick to it. As said the worst is still ahead of us, and therefore voted for surrender since day one to save innocent lives, and then start working with the real tools that will affect Russia on the long side of it. 

 

Finland and Sweeden become NATO member, stop Russia's export of oil and gas to the west is top priority. 

 

Surrending can give negative effect world wide, but I rather take the chance on that than wasting 50 000 Ukraine children and women, or put the elderly generation trough another hell!

 

As said before the strong support Putin have from China now, ( not always been like that) he can continue without to much risk for a long long rime. 

 

In the meantime Europe is once more flooded with traumatized immigrants.

 

Also the propaganda war inside Russia have to step up and make sure the message about what's really happening. But we all know how that work when someone really is convinced a out something, even the science is there. Many will not believe, 

[SunnyinBangrak]

14 hours ago, Virt said:

Putins demands to stop the war.

 

I doubt Ukraine will meet all those demands.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-russian-military-action-will-stop-moment-if-ukraine-meets-2022-03-07/?taid=6225f61c07024b0001563d12&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

As Mr.Derek said. These demands are absolutely reasonable. Instead of escalating to all out nuclear war as many here seem to want, I would suggest agreeing on pretty much what Russia is demanding here is the sensible exit from this war. After all, western nations do not need their cruise missiles on former Soviet state soil. They can fire them from subs or from the other side of the world if they decide to end all life on earth. 

 Also we are told NATO has no aggressive expansionary dreams ( i was mocked for claiming they did have - so I've been corrected there) so not including new nations should be no problem for the west.

 Then Russia wants the predominantly Russian populated breakaway regions to be given special status. Again no big deal.

 Other than the MSM hysterically claiming this is 100% Putins fault and no debate possible, this seems a very simple international spat to settle. A competent US government could thrash out a deal in a few minutes. 

 I can not understand why Russia's demands are not being discussed more, after all, everyone claims they do not want bloodshed. 

[RJRS1301]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Which ‘Democratic value’ is behind the invasion of a sovereign nation?

The one where it is accepted that elections are be manipulated until the required result is achieved ( reminds of somewhere else in the tropics), and result in a dictator for life.

 

[Bkk Brian]

I'd say one of the mounting worries in this invasion are the nuclear power plants in Ukraine, Putin's after them to control the power output in Ukraine.

 

He's now approaching a 3rd plant and there are far reaching risks with controlling these.

 

"In its latest report on the situation in Ukraine on Sunday, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Ukraine’s regulator informed them that the plant’s management had been told that all actions, including measures related to the technical operation of the reactors, required prior approval by the Russian commander."

 

The agency also reported that Russian forces at the site have switched off some mobile networks and the internet so staff can’t communicate reliable information to Ukrainian authorities. Ukraine’s regulator told the IAEA that phone lines, as well as e-mails and fax, were no longer functioning and that mobile phone communication, while possible, now had poor quality.

 

 

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-03-04/card/u-n-atomic-agency-says-staff-at-ukraine-s-largest-nuclear-plant-under-russian-forces-control-WGXOBs34EHMvpotAGSuF

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by metisdead
14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[Hummin]

19 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

As Mr.Derek said. These demands are absolutely reasonable. Instead of escalating to all out nuclear war as many here seem to want, I would suggest agreeing on pretty much what Russia is demanding here is the sensible exit from this war. After all, western nations do not need their cruise missiles on former Soviet state soil. They can fire them from subs or from the other side of the world if they decide to end all life on earth. 

 Also we are told NATO has no aggressive expansionary dreams ( i was mocked for claiming they did have - so I've been corrected there) so not including new nations should be no problem for the west.

 Then Russia wants the predominantly Russian populated breakaway regions to be given special status. Again no big deal.

 Other than the MSM hysterically claiming this is 100% Putins fault and no debate possible, this seems a very simple international spat to settle. A competent US government could thrash out a deal in a few minutes. 

 I can not understand why Russia's demands are not being discussed more, after all, everyone claims they do not want bloodshed. 

Ukraine is not ready to join or wasnt ready to join because of corruption and the border conflicts, and whats comes with the border conflicts, as the rumors of genocide. However, Nato do not expand by inviting, they consider membership when  a country apply for membership! 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Hummin

[Kwasaki]

18 hours ago, friendofthai said:

You should also thank Russia. Because most of refugees are accepted by Russia.

There are corridor's open to receive refugees into Russia and Belarus but it's being condemned of course by the west and it will not be reported by western media or known how many Ukrainian's will use them. 

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

As Mr.Derek said. These demands are absolutely reasonable. Instead of escalating to all out nuclear war as many here seem to want, I would suggest agreeing on pretty much what Russia is demanding here is the sensible exit from this war. After all, western nations do not need their cruise missiles on former Soviet state soil. They can fire them from subs or from the other side of the world if they decide to end all life on earth. 

 Also we are told NATO has no aggressive expansionary dreams ( i was mocked for claiming they did have - so I've been corrected there) so not including new nations should be no problem for the west.

 Then Russia wants the predominantly Russian populated breakaway regions to be given special status. Again no big deal.

 Other than the MSM hysterically claiming this is 100% Putins fault and no debate possible, this seems a very simple international spat to settle. A competent US government could thrash out a deal in a few minutes. 

 I can not understand why Russia's demands are not being discussed more, after all, everyone claims they do not want bloodshed. 

How about the invasion of a sovereign nation is not the basis to demand anything from anyone?

 

Nor should it ever be.

 

 

[Hummin]

Another interesting article released 4 days ago

 

HISTORY | MARCH 4, 2022

The 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression. Now, Russia is using that chapter to paint Ukraine as a Nazi nation
 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-20th-century-history-behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There are corridor's open to receive refugees into Russia and Belarus but it's being condemned of course by the west and it will not be reported by western media or known how many Ukrainian's will use them. 

So how did you learn of these corridors?

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Another interesting article released 4 days ago

 

HISTORY | MARCH 4, 2022

The 20th-Century History Behind Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine

During WWII, Ukrainian nationalists saw the Nazis as liberators from Soviet oppression. Now, Russia is using that chapter to paint Ukraine as a Nazi nation
 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-20th-century-history-behind-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-180979672/

Let’s have a bit more history:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

[SunnyinBangrak]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How about the invasion of a sovereign nation is not the basis to demand anything from anyone?

 

Nor should it ever be.

 

 

Expecting double standards to pass un-noticed is a no go. Not on my watch.

 

Had the US, UK and other western nations not have a history of invading sovereign nations willy-nilly you might have a point. Now, back to reality. Let's get some competent negotiator to sit down with Putin's crew and thrash out a deal and get back to some semblance of normality. 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s have a bit more history:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Also Described in the Smithsonian article

 

Also omitted from this version of events are the genocide and suppression that took place under Soviet rule—most famously the Great Famine. Holodomor, which fuses the Ukrainian words for starvation and inflicting death, claimed the lives of around 3.9 million people, or approximately 13 percent of the Ukrainian population, in the early 1930s. A human-made famine, it was the direct result of Soviet policies aimed at punishing Ukrainian farmers who fought Soviet mandates to collectivize. The Soviets also waged an intense “Russification” campaign, persecuting Ukraine’s cultural elite and elevating Russian language and culture above all others.

 

About Smithsonian as a source

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smithsonian_(magazine)

Edited March 8, 2022 by Hummin

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Expecting double standards to pass un-noticed is a no go. Not on my watch.

 

Had the US, UK and other western nations not have a history of invading sovereign nations willy-nilly you might have a point. Now, back to reality. Let's get some competent negotiator to sit down with Putin's crew and thrash out a deal and get back to some semblance of normality. 

Whataboutary.

 

And given my record on opposing a number of ‘Western military actions’ completely baffling.

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

What do anti-war protests in Russia mean for Putin?

Probably Putin wouldn't even think that long about it, do the maths 4000 plus protestors out of something like 140+ million.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Expecting double standards to pass un-noticed is a no go. Not on my watch.

 

Had the US, UK and other western nations not have a history of invading sovereign nations willy-nilly you might have a point. Now, back to reality. Let's get some competent negotiator to sit down with Putin's crew and thrash out a deal and get back to some semblance of normality. 

Im a afraid we have created a bad presedens when it comes to interfer with internal matters and also invading other countries on false premises. 
 

If we can not admit that, we have lost already!

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

Expecting double standards to pass un-noticed is a no go. Not on my watch.

 

Had the US, UK and other western nations not have a history of invading sovereign nations willy-nilly you might have a point. Now, back to reality. Let's get some competent negotiator to sit down with Putin's crew and thrash out a deal and get back to some semblance of normality. 

Russia can't even stick to cease fire arrangements, 3 of them broken already within an hour and so Russia carry on their shelling including residential areas killing innocent civilians and children trying to get out of harms way after leaving their homes to try and find safety.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Probably Putin wouldn't even think that long about it, do the maths 4000 plus protestors out of something like 140+ million.

Protests in 54 cities across Russia, people willing to face the inevitable viscous consequences of speaking up against Putin.

 

But once again your impartiality shines through.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Should the US have surrendered when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor? It would have saved a lot of deaths.

Nonsense that is not really any kind of comparison.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Nonsense that is not really any kind of comparison.

OK, give us an example of where surrendering to the invading army of a dictator worked out to be a good choice?

[lexor]

In Putins mind we all need to go a have a look. I think I know what Putin thinks. He's running the show and no one is coming to Ukraine's aid.

It's only going to get worse including the atrocities of war and now the global economy is about to pop. Keep it up/

The Kremlin has threatened to cut off gas supplies to Europe and warned that the price of oil could rocket to $300 a barrel if the western allies step up their economic war against Russia by banning energy imports.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

There are corridor's open to receive refugees into Russia and Belarus but it's being condemned of course by the west and it will not be reported by western media or known how many Ukrainian's will use them. 

Escape to the enemy invaders land?

Don't you get how stupid that is?

Putin gets to act humanitarian while doing the opposite.

Only Putinistas wouldn't see through this.