Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[Virt]

53 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

There are corridor's open to receive refugees into Russia and Belarus but it's being condemned of course by the west and it will not be reported by western media or known how many Ukrainian's will use them. 

 

If your neighbor attacked your house and killed some of your family members, would you seek refuge in his house?

 

Fleeing into Belarus or Russia is like running from the fire into the furnace.

 

At worst the Ukrainians could be used as civilian prisoners in Putins perverted wargame or simply killed.

 

At best they are treated like refugees in the start, but they are fleeing into countries where its own citizens will have a hard time surviving In a month or two if the sanctions and war continue, and then their lives are in danger once again.

 

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Escape to the enemy invaders land?

Don't you get how stupid that is?

Putin gets to act humanitarian while doing the opposite.

Only Putinistas wouldn't see through this.

8 million or 17% of Ukrainians is ethnic Russians with, so for Putin to channel some of them to Russia would be seen as a win, and maybe some of them prefer to go to Russia instead of other countries at the time being, knowing how Russians now being seen as, or also some places harassed. Also see some from the fora in the Phuket tread, how they feel about the stranded Russians there. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, jollyhangmon said:

 

Ukraine conflict: What's behind Southeast Asia's muted response?

 

 

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-conflict-whats-behind-southeast-asias-muted-response/a-61039013

 

I support Thailands decision.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I support Thailands decision.

Of course you do, it leaves Putin to do as he pleases.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I support Thailands decision.

You support this?

 

Thailand voted in support of a UN resolution against Russia’s invasion, demanding that Russia “immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces” from Ukraine.

 

“Thailand is gravely concerned with the worsening hostilities and violence as a result of the use of military forces in Ukraine, which has led to the loss of life, including of innocent civilians and destruction of property and civilian infrastructure.”

 

Bravo, so do I.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Mr Derek said:

Care to explain why?

 

Be realistic. Ukraine is not going to win this war. All those on here who are content to see the Ukrainian people continue to suffer day after day - why? For pride, that's all. So that Ukraine can take pride in making a bigger splodge on the map. That's all this is about. 

 

If you believe in democracy, and human decency, you will allow the Russian majority in Donbass independence. And if you believe in democracy, you will then allow them to have a referendum, as did Crimea, whether to join Russia or not. And of course they will, because they are Russian.

 

As usual everyone's thinking is based on emotion rather than reason. All they see is Ukraine = innocent victims = angels. Are they aware that Donbass is majority Russian? Are they aware that Ukraine has been oppressing those people and that there has been an independence struggle there for years? Are they aware that Ukraine's borders were arbitrarily drawn at a time when Russia was on its knees and busy looking after itself and now need to be rationalised?

 

Genocide is always too strong a word, but Ukraine has clearly been trying to quash those Russian populations in Donbass. The self-declared Nazi-oriented Azov regiment was incorporated in the Ukrainian army specifically to do that. The Russians in Donbass are the victims here. The solution to the problem is exactly what Russia is now proposing. Surrender and accede to those terms. Problem solved.

 

I suggest you reconsider your alliance according to democratic values.

A very reasonable point of view and some of it I have suggested at the beginning of the thread that surrender will save lives on both sides but it is replaced with over-emotional suicidal attendances.

I'm a comrade now apparently. ????

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

A very reasonable point of view and some of it I have suggested at the beginning of the thread that surrender will save lives on both sides but it is replaced with over-emotional suicidal attendances.

I'm a comrade now apparently. ????

Keeping, or seeing  a bigger picture, often create an unrealistic complexity to something that shouldn't happened in the first place. 

 

To many sacrifices on so many levels

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

All I can say, watch out for being the useful idiot, and it not only directed against you, but everyone who take any war propaganda as truth and there is nothing more behind or between the lines. 

 

War is horror and both parts trying their best to rule and divide. 

 

The borders should had been respected, and everyone no matter what they feel should had respected each and ones individual feeling of belonging to one part. 

 

Still ridiculous since all is Russians or Ukrainians no matter how you twist it around!

 

Putin is the obvious aggressor with most power, and have to be treated like one.

 

As claimed before, the economic sanctions is a bluff, and a show with no effect, since Russia still export oil and gas!

 

The more I see what's going on, Putin's seems to know exactly what he doing, he got a solid cruel plan, and stick to it. As said the worst is still ahead of us, and therefore voted for surrender since day one to save innocent lives, and then start working with the real tools that will affect Russia on the long side of it. 

 

Finland and Sweeden become NATO member, stop Russia's export of oil and gas to the west is top priority. 

 

Surrending can give negative effect world wide, but I rather take the chance on that than wasting 50 000 Ukraine children and women, or put the elderly generation trough another hell!

 

As said before the strong support Putin have from China now, ( not always been like that) he can continue without to much risk for a long long rime. 

 

In the meantime Europe is once more flooded with traumatized immigrants.

 

Also the propaganda war inside Russia have to step up and make sure the message about what's really happening. But we all know how that work when someone really is convinced a out something, even the science is there. Many will not believe, 

It would be Ukraine agreeing to Russia's terms not the world being negative with some redrawing of border lines in Ukraine will bring peace and stop the needles loss of lives. 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How about the invasion of a sovereign nation is not the basis to demand anything from anyone?

 

Nor should it ever be.

 

Your like a broken line on a 78 record.

Ukraine has been invaded. 

 

Demands have been made before and during the invasion. 

 

Whether or not Ukraine except demands is up to them. 

 

I just believe it would be the way to go. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Your like a broken line on a 78 record.

Ukraine has been invaded. 

 

Demands have been made before and during the invasion. 

 

Whether or not Ukraine except demands is up to them. 

 

I just believe it would be the way to go. 

I’m sorry you have a problem accepting that Ukrainian has indeed been invaded.

 

Yes we know about the demands of the invading aggressor, they’ve been discussed throughout this thread.

 

Invading a sovereign nation provides no legitimacy to any demands made by the aggressor.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So how did you learn of these corridors?

Alledgely from my comrades as previously stated. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m sorry you have a problem accepting that Ukrainian has indeed been invaded.

 

Yes we know about the demands of the invading aggressor, they’ve been discussed throughout this thread.

 

Invading a sovereign nation provides no legitimacy to any demands made by the aggressor.

Our comrade forgets he agrees with Thailand and 141 other countries voting for the UN resolution against Russia’s invasion, demanding that Russia “immediately, completely and unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces” 

[lexor]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Invading a sovereign nation provides no legitimacy to any demands made by the aggressor.

When some shoves the business end of 9mm in your face it is far from legitimate but you comply or the aggressor may put hot lead between your eyes ending you. The carnage will roll on in Ukraine until....

Legitimacy is relative concept with differing interpretations, so sometimes the prudent course of action although sub optimal is better than getting your country decimated.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, lexor said:

When some shoves the business end of 9mm in your face it is far from legitimate but you comply or the aggressor may put hot lead between your eyes ending you. The carnage will roll on in Ukraine until....

Legitimacy is relative concept with differing interpretations, so sometimes the prudent course of action although sub optimal is better than getting your country decimated.

 

Fortunately for humanity that line of argument has been defeated many times.

[lexor]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

unconditionally withdraw all of its military forces” 

They should, according to you and the UN and maybe Bob your uncle, but who's paying heed to the symbolic gestures of the UN body and the armchair critics. Ask Irak.

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

OK, give us an example of where surrendering to the invading army of a dictator worked out to be a good choice?

There are many,  the first one that comes to mind is Japan.

[lexor]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Fortunately for humanity that line of argument has been defeated many times.

what argument, common sense, self preservation?

Save the country from destruction.

reuters news

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, lexor said:

They should, according to you and the UN and maybe Bob your uncle, but who's paying heed to the symbolic gestures of the UN body and the armchair critics. Ask Irak.

Wrong not according to me, I know they won't already, I have no uncles by the way

 

 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Escape to the enemy invaders land?

Don't you get how stupid that is?

Putin gets to act humanitarian while doing the opposite.

Only Putinistas wouldn't see through this.

Not stupid at all to take those routes if you wish to survive I  knew you say that as you don't seem to care if Ukrainians continue to suffer and die. 

[Chomper Higgot]

Here’s a fact.

 

Ukrainians have armed themselves with petrol bombs to fight the invading Russian army.

 

No amount of expressed concern for Ukrainian casualties from appeaseniks is going to change the will of those people to fight for their freedom.

 

Arming them with modern weapons evens the odds.

 

It’s one of the right things to do.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Not stupid at all to take those routes if you wish to survive I  knew you say that as you don't seem to care if Ukrainians continue to suffer and die. 

To be taken as a hostage by the invading army.

 

Once again I encourage you to find a Ukrainian to pass that idea on your behalf.

[Bkk Brian]

Worth a read, from the former deputy minister of finance of Russia on the 3rd March

 

Can Russia rely on China to provide financial resources to help prop its economy? The Russian leadership had such hopes in 2014-2016 when it was hit by Western sanctions over the annexation of Crimea. But despite numerous requests for loans from the Russian side, Beijing gave only a minimal amount of assistance and tied it to Chinese companies being allowed to access Russian production and exports.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/3/how-much-damage-will-sanctions-do-to-russia

[lexor]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

To be taken as a hostage by the invading army.

 

Once again I encourage you to find a Ukrainian to pass that idea on your behalf.

I think I read somewhere that UK Boris will not allow any Ukranian refugees. Maybe some border nations have no capacity to accommodate war refugees now

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Virt said:

 

If your neighbor attacked your house and killed some of your family members, would you seek refuge in his house?

 

Fleeing into Belarus or Russia is like running from the fire into the furnace.

 

At worst the Ukrainians could be used as civilian prisoners in Putins perverted wargame or simply killed.

 

At best they are treated like refugees in the start, but they are fleeing into countries where its own citizens will have a hard time surviving In a month or two if the sanctions and war continue, and then their lives are in danger once again.

Using an example of a personal attack on my life is pointless of course I would seek refuge in his house after I had killed him and rescued his family from improper behaviour in neighborhood of such a person.

 

There are are Russian people in Ukraine why would they not use those routes.  

[Lacessit]

34 minutes ago, lexor said:

The Russian machine kills and keeps killing, and merely replace their KIA with more willing to die until they achieve their objectives. Putin likely to never back down and his little brother, the Jew ex comedian is fighting the good fight to this point. This is a perfect algorithm for mass casualty for all concerned not the least of which is the massive humanitarian crisis unfolding across Europe. Putin is in control and it's time to rethink this.

Putin is in control of what, exactly? The ruble is now worth one-quarter of a Thai baht. That's assuming anyone is stupid enough to buy rubles. The official interest rate in Russia is 20%, in America it is less than 0.1%. Hyperinflation looms.

He has lost the propaganda war, Russia is now an international pariah. And while he may bomb Ukrainian cities into rubble, he has got an insurgency on his hands that is worse than Afghanistan, because the insurgents are getting better weapons from the West.

Rethink what? Trying to negotiate with Putin is like trying to reason with a dog that has rabies.

Rabid dogs are put down to avoid them infecting others.

[Kwasaki]

38 minutes ago, lexor said:

The Russian machine kills and keeps killing, and merely replace their KIA with more willing to die until they achieve their objectives. Putin likely to never back down and his little brother, the Jew ex comedian is fighting the good fight to this point. This is a perfect algorithm for mass casualty for all concerned not the least of which is the massive humanitarian crisis unfolding across Europe. Putin is in control and it's time to rethink this.

Yes agree to terms of surrender.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Putin is in control of what, exactly? The ruble is now worth one-quarter of a Thai baht. The official interest rate in Russia is 20%, in America it is less than 0.1%. Hyperinflation looms.

He has lost the propaganda war, Russia is now an international pariah. And while he may bomb Ukrainian cities into rubble, he has got an insurgency on his hands that is worse than Afghanistan, because the insurgents are getting better weapons from the West.

Rethink what? Trying to negotiate with Putin is like trying to reason with a dog that has rabies.

Rabid dogs are put down to avoid them infecting others.

Not only that:

 

He’s done a fantastic  job reestablishing support for NATO.

 

He’s isolated the Russian economy.

 

He’s isolated Russia on the world stage.

 

He’s demolished the credibility of Russia as a safe place to invest.

 

Added to which he’s now learning Ukraine is no pushover.

 

I can only assume he’s surrounded by people who have for some time now been afraid to tell him the truths he needs to hear.

[Virt]

53 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Keeping, or seeing  a bigger picture, often create an unrealistic complexity to something that shouldn't happened in the first place. 

 

To many sacrifices on so many levels

 

if Russia are to attack Sweden and Finland as they are not members of NATO,

would you tell your Scandinavian neighbors to lay down their weapons as well.

[Hummin]

On 3/8/2022 at 1:14 PM, Kwasaki said:

 

That the problem when not jumping on the emotional train and become an useful idiot. 

 

It is a game, a game for world politicians using the civilians, women and children as tools. 

 

But by just saying so, you get condemned even you say the main person who is solely responsible for the invasion, is Putin.

 

When that is said, what if the world would have aknownledged Crimea, and Ukraine made a pact with Russia alike Suomi, and not join NATO?

 

Would that have solved anything? Most likely as much as any other border conflict alike Israel have done with their Neighbours. 

 

So No, not a good solution either.

 

If I knew all the answers, I would be an idiot! Because only an idiot can claim he or she know the answers to such an conflict with a man like Putin. 

 

Is there anything that have changed since Alexander the great? Have we become any different when it comes to fight for glory, land and resources? 

 

[Chris.B]

4 minutes ago, Virt said:

 

if Russia are to attack Sweden and Finland as they are not members of NATO,

would you tell your Scandinavian neighbors to lay down their weapons as well.

I think Russia would be wary of attacking the Finns, it will be a second Ukraine but in deeper snow.