Clan politics is bad for Thai democracy

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Have fun with your own version of alternative facts. 

Alternative but well established facts that happened and you can find reported by multiple independent sources?  Suuuuuure.

 

Have fun living in a dream world.  No wonder you aren't in favour of the coups, have have no knowledge of their necessity.

 

If you trust your imagination over what actually happen though, you probably aren't going to be able to make any sort of meaningful contribution when the subject is discussed.

[IanDelMar]

4 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Sure, basically the methods that Thaksin and his proxy sister used to gain and hold power were such that you cannot really class them as being properly democratically elected. Did they get the most votes? Technically, sure. But if they had not used corruption, cronyism, silencing free speech/criticism, and the straight up purchasing of votes (and not the regular kind), would they have still gotten into power? Possibly not.

Ah OK I see where your coming from. Of course in a perfect world you may have a point. Flawed democracy is more common on our planet than bright shiny perfect democracy. Maybe doesn't exist anywhere at all. But one thing is sure... if one candidate is employing these tactics then the they all are. Kind of makes it a level playing field. Certainly not to be condoned. But we have to be realistic. They can't buy or silence or corrupt every single one of the 115 million plus votes they received in the 2011 election. There was most definitely a mandate for their leadership even accepting it's geographical bias.

[mania]

16 hours ago, webfact said:

Clan politics is bad for Thai democracy

 

Is a Junta a clan? Because obviously the worst thing Thailand has to deal with are coups !

18 coups and 18 constitutions in the history of Thai politics!

 

No Democracy can live with such a treasonous military force that not only does not serve the government but instead overthrows it

using the weak excuse they need to restore order & happiness

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by mania

[candide]

7 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

I mean they weren't going to be voted out because they were paying people huge sums to keep themselves in power regardless of what they actually did for the country or for themselves. I'm not sure how that isn't a problem for you, as long as they're "voted in" nothing else matters? They can be completely illegitimate in every other way as long as they get the most votes?

 

As I said already, I'm not in favour of what is happening now, only that the coups have clearly been necessary.

 

They obviously would have voted her or another Thaksin proxy straight back in. It cannot simply be a case of remove the proxy and let them vote another straight back in. How would that solve the problem that necessitated the coup in the first place?

 

I'm not sure how you expect democracy to function in Thailand without some way of prevent a Thaksin/Yingluck situation from reoccurring.

Come on. How can coups be useful when they just replace elected crooks by unelected crooks who cannot stand to democratically lose their grip on the country? You are simply making up an alternate reality. How can an alleged remedy be a remedy when it's worse than what it's pretending to cure? 

[mania]

7 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

No, it's more about accepting the military's role in preventing a group from usurping the democratic process to take absolute power.

You seem to forget it was the military refusing to do their duty when elections were being blocked by mobs & govt house was being overrun?

They purposefully stood down to incite the so called need for them to step in & once again install themselves & their paymasters in place of an elected government

It was treason plain & simple & the generals hopefully will someday hang for it

Edited March 24, 2022 by mania

[ThailandRyan]

5 hours ago, mania said:

 

Is a Junta a clan? Because obviously the worst thing Thailand has to deal with are coups !

18 coups and 18 constitutions in the history of Thai politics!

 

No Democracy can live with such a treasonous military force that not only does not serve the government but instead overthrows it

using the weak excuse they need to restore order & happiness

 

And 8 years later Thailand is the unhappiest it has ever been, well for the little people that is.

[Sydebolle]

Thailand would need a Lee Kwan Yew. He certainly was a tyrant - not to his own financial disadvantage - but he kept the kindergarten under control and took Singapore from a mosquito and snake swamp to the island state it is today.

Democracy is a central European thing and that's where matters end. Forget the gunning foreign politicians in Washington DC and anywhere else - it does not work. In order for it to work it requires a highly educated electorate, a history going further back than just 18th century, a balance of power possibility with multi-party governments of more than just two parties and the choice of politicians wanting to do it for their country and not only for their bank account. 

The bottle neck is always on the very top of the bottle - go figure. Explain that to the grannies in Northeastern Isan ........... 

[IanDelMar]

11 hours ago, IanDelMar said:

115 million plus votes they received

Typo here. Should read 15 million. It was late ????

[IanDelMar]

12 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

No wonder you aren't in favour of the coups, have have no knowledge of their necessity.

Necessary for those living the hiso lifestyle in their Bangkok condos and keeping in with the top man and the military so they don't lose their grip on the gravy train. Perhaps your on that train yourself. Why not just install a permanent military dictatorship like Myanmar and be done? That's the logical answer to your assertions.

[BangkokReady]

5 minutes ago, IanDelMar said:

Necessary for those living the hiso lifestyle in their Bangkok condos and keeping in with the top man and the military so they don't lose their grip on the gravy train. Perhaps your on that train yourself. Why not just install a permanent military dictatorship like Myanmar and be done? That's the logical answer to your assertions.

Haha.  No.

[BangkokReady]

7 hours ago, candide said:

Come on. How can coups be useful when they just replace elected crooks by unelected crooks who cannot stand to democratically lose their grip on the country? You are simply making up an alternate reality. How can an alleged remedy be a remedy when it's worse than what it's pretending to cure? 

As I said, they should return to democracy within a year or two.  This way Thailand can gradually get used to democracy, or at least no one can seize absolute power and hold it indefinitely.  It seems that you are living in an alternative reality in order to try and disagree with my comments.

[hotchilli]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:45 AM, webfact said:

The prospect that Paetongtarn Shinawatra is likely to be Pheu Thai’s nominee for prime minister at the next election brings with it a certain sense of déjà vu.

When Shin was in power money was shares around, maybe time to turn the clock back

 

[candide]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

As I said, they should return to democracy within a year or two.  This way Thailand can gradually get used to democracy, or at least no one can seize absolute power and hold it indefinitely.  It seems that you are living in an alternative reality in order to try and disagree with my comments.

No it's you consistently trying to push a lame justification for coups.

We disagree on the main points

- the main reason for coups is not corruption, it's about the elected government challenging or not the established yellow/green network. They don't care about corruption when it happens in their camp. They did not care about corrupt Suthep playing a key role in the Abhisit government, they did not care about Thammanat, they did not care about the former pro-Thaksin 5 crooks when they joined the yellow/ green camp.

- the main objective is to keep power inside the yellow/green network