Filial Piety - What's wrong with it?

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

I was skimming through this topic and some comments raised an eyebrow. One of the things that attracts me to Thai culture is the family structure. For myself, the thought of rotting in some old folks home stinking of stale p:$$ with strangers horrifies me, I'd rather croak before that happened. One of the things I can look forward to here is care from my loved ones and the regular presence of my children. . .

 

I've been here for a long time, and the love and appreciation I get from my extended Thai family has completed my life. No one is quite sure how old my mother in law is but she's very, very old. I try to spend as much time with her as I can, she holds my hand, talks to me, loves me. . . This matriarch of the family that has loved me like she loves her own sons. I love her back. My life in Thailand could not have been cemented into place without the pecuniary support of this family. Likewise the money flows from me in emergencies. To me it's this emotional and financial support that makes families strong. The very idea of going back to the isolated, island life that some folk seem to think is the way forward for society sends a chill down my spine.

 

So you tell me, what's wrong with filial piety, because I'm not getting it . . .

[Leaver]

 

When your money runs out, so does the Thai family. 

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

So you tell me, what's wrong with filial piety, because I'm not getting it

Whatever if you're happy with your life in Thailand just go with the flow.

What you describe about your life here is not what everyone does.

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

Just now, Leaver said:

 

When your money runs out, so does the Thai family. 

You see, this is precisely why I spend little time on these forums, people like you, attitudes like this. TVF is full of bitter old men.  People marry into Thailand without understanding the people they are marrying. That's their fault. When my money ran out, I was thrown a lifeline by Thai family and I'm not going to be the farang that ran out when things go bad. . . Everyone's experience of life is different of course.

[Leaver]

3 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

You see, this is precisely why I spend little time on these forums, people like you, attitudes like this. TVF is full of bitter old men.  People marry into Thailand without understanding the people they are marrying. That's their fault. When my money ran out, I was thrown a lifeline by Thai family and I'm not going to be the farang that ran out when things go bad. . . Everyone's experience of life is different of course.

 

Not bitter. Single.  Never had a Thai girlfriend.  Never sent money for a sick buffalo.  I'm not a member of the Issan House Builders Club.

 

Do you deny Money Number One in Thailand? 

 

You speak of your experience, but do you think that is the experience of many who have been fleeced here? 

[TheScience]

21 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

When your money runs out, so does the Thai family. 

That's not true in the West?

 

More likely relatives actively trying to steal inheritances.

[TheScience]

5 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Not bitter. Single.  Never had a Thai girlfriend.  Never sent money for a sick buffalo.  I'm not a member of the Issan House Builders Club.

 

Do you deny Money Number One in Thailand? 

 

You speak of your experience, but do you think that is the experience of many who have been fleeced here? 

Knows the price of everything and the value of nothing

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

2 minutes ago, TheScience said:

That's not true in the West?

 

More likely relatives actively trying to steal inheritances.

I think you kind of understand what I'm saying. To me, all taxation is fraudulent, and none more fraudulent than making tax payers pay for the elderly of others.

[Lacessit]

I was having a discussion with my Thai GF a couple of hours ago. She is going to the temple tomorrow to pray to Buddha for her father, who died a month ago, age 88.

I asked her whether she would do the same for me after I died. She said of course. Family.

So yes, I know how the OP feels.

[ChrisP24]

So many of the naysayers are bitter because they pick the wrong relationship/wrong family, so they don' t know the joy of being accepted into a good one and enjoying its support, and especially seeing firsthand how truly wonderful a good, close extended family is in providing a supporting, nurturing environment for raising children.   So when someone claims to have found it, they doubt its existence and think you are deluding yourself, maybe just because that is outside of their personal experience, or maybe because their own experience has been so much the opposite.   Extended family is one of the strengths of this culture, one that we have lost in the west, replacing family with other institutions.  Some better maybe (more individuality and personal freedom), but many not (how we treat the aging or turn away from family members enduring hardship). 

 

I think also that many people expatriate late enough in life where they are always going to be visitors, they either already had their families elsewhere, or opted to not have a western family at all, or in some cases their western family opted to disengage from them for one reason or another, so they are doubly doubtful of what you describe.

[Leaver]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Perhaps you could outline for us all the worthwhile endeavors you are engaged in.

 

I did. 

 

Not getting fleeced is pretty worthwhile.

 

Not living in a village in rural Thailand, in my retirement years, is pretty worthwhile.

 

Not buying land I can't truly own is pretty worthwhile.

 

Why not do a social experiment?  Stop the money flow and see what happens.  Of course, you wouldn't dare, you know the outcome.  

 

So many guys have got themselves into a situation here where they have to keep paying, because they have ploughed their life savings into the relationship and worthless assets, and given they are retired, they are now stuck, and unable to start again. 

 

I didn't work hard all my life to be manipulated to end up living in a village in Thailand where I get to watch rice grow until I die.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, ChrisP24 said:

So many of the naysayers are bitter because they pick the wrong relationship/wrong family,

 

I am not bitter.  As I said in a previous post, I never went down that path.  I am happily single here. 

 

Would you care to put a percentage on genuine relationships to relationships solely based on the flow of money? 

 

Be honest. 

[Led Lolly Yellow Lolly]

I'd rather the topic stayed on topic.

[rumak]

11 minutes ago, Leaver said:

Would you care to put a percentage on genuine relationships to relationships solely based on the flow of money? 

Not just thailand, but everywhere .   Even those who had a good relationship very often "grow apart".

Lots of reasons why .   Money and boredom probably top the list .   I would guess 10 % of relationships are built on respect and a feeling of being happy to wake up and see the person you are with.

In the past when i felt that was not the case  i would move on.  So that is MY reason for not putting too much money into 'living arrangements'.     

Many many guys DO lose a lot.... or hang on because they thought it would be forever.

 

[rumak]

6 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I'd rather the topic stayed on topic.

just saw that.    on topic i would agree that there is NOTHING wrong with filial piety .  had to look it up though !!       Having a good family around and respecting each other is a great thing.   

To go off topic a bit :   I do not believe that it is often that simple........ as so many families have problems and are not harmonious.     But if you find a family.... or just one person that is sincere... it is a good thing

[Leaver]

4 minutes ago, rumak said:

Not just thailand, but everywhere .   Even those who had a good relationship very often "grow apart".

Lots of reasons why .   Money and boredom probably top the list .   I would guess 10 % of relationships are built on respect and a feeling of being happy to wake up and see the person you are with.

In the past when i felt that was not the case  i would move on.  So that is MY reason for not putting too much money into 'living arrangements'.     

Many many guys DO lose a lot.... or hang on because they thought it would be forever.

 

 

Ahh, but those who have invested their life savings into the relationship, and into worthless assets in Issan will tell you that you are cynical, and bitter etc etc, when all you have done is been realistic. 

[rumak]

1 minute ago, Leaver said:

 

Ahh, but those who have invested their life savings into the relationship, and into worthless assets in Issan will tell you that you are cynical, and bitter etc etc, when all you have done is been realistic. 

Yep .    Up to them to do what they want.    i have been "realistic'   and thus been able to move on when things were no longer what i wanted.

[Leaver]

14 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I'd rather the topic stayed on topic.

 

To be strictly on topic, there's nothing wrong with it. 

 

I just question how often it happens here for farang, without money being involved.  I really don't think that's too far off topic. 

[Leaver]

5 minutes ago, rumak said:

Yep .    Up to them to do what they want.    i have been "realistic'   and thus been able to move on when things were no longer what i wanted.

 

I respect your honesty.

 

How many are living miserable lives in retirement, in Issan, drinking themselves to death, because they were not realistic here?

[ChrisP24]

36 minutes ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I'd rather the topic stayed on topic.

So the topic is what is wrong with filial piety?  Well, like any loyalty or obedience that you place with anyone or any group, sometimes that loyalty is misplaced, and the person is taken advantage of, even to the point where they are a victim.   So, in my opinion and in my experience, filial piety is largely a good thing, but sometimes gets twisted by bad people so it needs to be tempered by awareness and critical thinking.  That is true with family, just as it's true with churches, governments, educational institutions, employers, or any other group that you might affiliate yourself with.  Sometimes they are good but fall under the influence of bad people, or sometimes they reveal themselves as just being outright bad for you. 

[spidermike007]

There are alot of very good people in Thailand. Absolutely lovely souls. If you are fortunate enough to have an angel like this woman in your family, pay homage all you like. The elders are precious.

 

Nothing wrong with the reverence, despite what some say. Follow your heart. 

 

I think what some complain about is blind fealty to unworthy parents. That is a different deal, altogether. 

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

So you tell me, what's wrong with filial piety, because I'm not getting it . . .

My take on it is that a big part of it is consumerism.  Keeping people separated and each having a single house, single car, etc., means more money is being spent.  Forcing people to buy insurance, pension, etc., means that money is in the hands of the banks rather than going straight to the parents.

 

So consumer culture is all about hyper-individualisation where people only really think about themselves and what they independently have.  One thing you notice in "the West" is that living with elderly parents, or still living with your parents in your twenties, is considered something you should be embarrassed and avoid.  Older people are viewed as being kind of gross/uncool and should be locked away somewhere, while young people are out partying and worrying about what their friends will think about their new kitchen when they next come round for a dinner party.

 

I'm not saying that no "Western" people care for their elderly, and I know it's probably a bigger issue in English speaking countries, but you just don't see the three generations out together in the same numbers back home as you do in Thailand.

 

Thailand/Asia being poorer is a factor also, with no social safety net.  Young people are likely to need a lot of support from their parents until they are well into adulthood, and this means that the family has a say in what they do.  In "the West" young people depend on their parents slightly less, so have a little more freedom.

 

I don't feel there is anything wrong with it, as long as taxes stay low, but I think that both genders of children should be made to contribute.  There seems to be a thing in Thailand where sometimes only the girl has to help the family and even the male child can live off the female child.

[Grecian]

Humans just haven't evolved to live alone.

meaning is derived by living for another. People who have been damaged find that it's easier to live for a dog than a human. 

If a man can live in Thailand only for himself and be happy he is quite unusual.

[rumak]

6 hours ago, Grecian said:

Humans just haven't evolved to live alone.

meaning is derived by living for another. People who have been damaged find that it's easier to live for a dog than a human. 

If a man can live in Thailand only for himself and be happy he is quite unusual.

the more people i meet, the more i love my dog.    "Spot !  Is my breakfast ready yet ? "

[Fat is a type of crazy]

9 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

You see, this is precisely why I spend little time on these forums, people like you, attitudes like this. TVF is full of bitter old men.  People marry into Thailand without understanding the people they are marrying. That's their fault. When my money ran out, I was thrown a lifeline by Thai family and I'm not going to be the farang that ran out when things go bad. . . Everyone's experience of life is different of course.

 

9 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

I think you kind of understand what I'm saying. To me, all taxation is fraudulent, and none more fraudulent than making tax payers pay for the elderly of others.

Not sure if you believe in this specific concept or just in being good to people who are good to you. 

The concept seems to be based on obedience and devotion, possibly without question, almost a religious thing. Would you support it if they had not been nice. Or do you think by supporting the concept, and living in a certain way,  it made your family nice respectful and good people.  

Isn't taxation itself a broader form of devotion and support of our fellow people. Or are those without a family to be discarded with no support for health, housing and basics such as food.  

It is noted too that as we get older the concept of helping and respecting the elderly can seem a more desirable concept. 

[CharlieH]

Trolling remarks/off topic posts removed.

[Lacessit]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I did. 

 

Not getting fleeced is pretty worthwhile.

 

Not living in a village in rural Thailand, in my retirement years, is pretty worthwhile.

 

Not buying land I can't truly own is pretty worthwhile.

 

Why not do a social experiment?  Stop the money flow and see what happens.  Of course, you wouldn't dare, you know the outcome.  

 

So many guys have got themselves into a situation here where they have to keep paying, because they have ploughed their life savings into the relationship and worthless assets, and given they are retired, they are now stuck, and unable to start again. 

 

I didn't work hard all my life to be manipulated to end up living in a village in Thailand where I get to watch rice grow until I die.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at my avatar, it describes how I live.

I agree, if the flow of money stopped, things would be different. But why would I do that? I have a woman who is devoted to looking after me until I die. My memory will stay with her as long as she lives. I certainly have not ploughed all my money into the relationship, 70% of my assets are back in Australia, where they will pass to my son.

Is it worthwhile to live and die alone, uncared for, and in the hands of strangers, for the sake of money? Sorry, that's as shallow as a mud puddle.

[giddyup]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

I respect your honesty.

 

How many are living miserable lives in retirement, in Issan, drinking themselves to death, because they were not realistic here?

Those same people might just be drinking themselves to death somewhere else, perhaps in a dingy bed-sit wrapped in a blanket.

[OneMoreFarang]

If you are happy with your situation that is obviously great.

For me, since many years, including the time when I was back home, family was mostly headache.

And if family members are already headache in good times then I am pretty sure things won't get better in bad times.

At an early age I asked myself: Would I chose this and that family member as my friend?

For some of them my answer was: "no". For other family members the answer was: "No way, never!" and only for few of them I would consider them as friends or even want them as my friends.

Unfortunately many of us don't have a happy family - anywhere in the world.

[userabcd]

12 hours ago, Led Lolly Yellow Lolly said:

For myself, the thought of rotting in some old folks home stinking of stale p:$$ with strangers horrifies me, I'd rather croak before that happened

The big question is how one would be able to croak if one had no family and adequate finances?